Talk:Bob Dylan

Legacy section

Since Dylan is alive, isn´t it more appropriate to talk about "influence"? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:28, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

This seems to be a Wikipedia convention. If you look at other Featured articles which are biographies of living musicians - David Bowie, Paul McCartney, U2, Aaliyah - you will find sections on "Legacy". Mick gold (talk) 23:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:41, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't think "convention" is a sufficient reason to continue a practice that is not accurate; furthermore, "Influence" is used in other pages, so it would not look like an aberrational edit. It is possibly an effort by copyeditors to plan for the forthcoming deaths of older artists such as Dylan. If there is a salient reason that I am not aware of, please revert the change to "Influence" that I will make now. Thanks.--Soulparadox (talk) 14:37, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Also, for the record, Aaliyah is dead. So she can't be used as an example of a living artist with a Legacy section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.124.129.186 (talk) 15:58, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

the last paragraph of the article seems superficially written..who owned the document..who sold it to whom..did bob still own it or was it already in the hands of a collector? what did they do with the money? give it to charity?

Suze Rotolo

How is there not more about Dylan's relationship to Suze Rotolo? She was a major influence of his, just look at her Wikipedia page. 87.198.161.74 (talk) 18:09, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Her book, A Freewheelin' Time, provides a valuable first-hand glimpse of Dylan and Greenwich Village in the early '60s. Sca (talk) 18:15, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Please add : Enigmatic / Mystique

Please add the words "enigmatic" and/or "mystique" regarding Dylan's image and cultural influence. Whether authentic or part of a stage persona, those descriptors are significant enough to warrant special note. Please have this added by January 10th 2014. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.18.239 (talk) 07:56, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Does the Bob Dylan on top of our TV explode if we don't add the words to the article? Those are good descriptors, but I think the article is pretty good as it is. Brianyoumans (talk) 14:48, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Dylan just loves when people describe him with those words, doesn't he? ;) The Wookieepedian (talk) 17:03, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Tone

I inserted a Tone template, as I just edited the "Legacy" (now "Influence") section and it read like a fan club article. I will continue to revise the article so that the template can eventually be removed.--Soulparadox (talk) 14:50, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Soulparadox has advocated re-titling the Legacy section as Influence. I've looked at several WP:FA articles on significant musical figures, Aaliyah, David Bowie, The Beatles, Elvis Presley, U2. Each article features a Legacy section. At the last FA review this article went through in 2008, a Legacy section was specifically requested by other editors reviewing this article. Can we reach consensus before re-titling this section?

Soulparadox had made a number of constructive edits to diminish the "fan" tone of the article. I'd be happy to collaborate in this process. I've tried to re-write the sentence preceding the Hoberman quote in the Legacy/Influence section. My motive was stylistic. Hoberman's quote suggests a different perspective on Dylan's legacy from that obtaining in the 1960s, and I thought quote benefitted from being "written into". Mick gold (talk) 15:23, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I am not sure if these are two separate comments, or are by the same copyeditor, but I was unaware of the discussion and will revert the title until we know anything further.--Soulparadox (talk) 03:08, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Both the above comments ("Soulparadox has advocated…" and "Soulparadox had made…") were written by me. In my opinion, an example of Influence would be "Dylan's sneering vocal tone on 'Like a Rolling Stone' was quickly emulated by Sonny Bono on his record 'I Got You Babe'". Legacy, I think, conveys the totality of an artist's contribution. When Time magazine described Dylan as "master poet, caustic social critic and intrepid, guiding spirit of the counterculture generation", when Barack Obama said, "There is not a bigger giant in the history of American music", they are not describing Dylan's influence on other musicians. They are describing the totality of his artistic achievements. I think this totality is conveyed better by the term Legacy. Mick gold (talk) 06:21, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I agree that "Legacy" seems to be the usual term, and a better description. To be brutally honest, Dylan is in the twilight of his career; while he may yet do some wonderful things, I have a hard time believing that he will ever have the kind of cultural impact and stature that he had in the 60s. He could surprise me, but... I'd be surprised. And his body of work from that period has certainly left a legacy. Brianyoumans (talk) 13:55, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I also agree that "Legacy" seems to be the usual term. I would support keeping this heading, rather than "Influence". Cheers, Moisejp (talk) 03:39, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Dylan's influence is now second, third and even fourth generation, but his legacy is everywhere - and not just in music. Of the two words, "legacy" is better - but if anybody has any other suggestions now is the time to suggest. BTW Soulparadox has made some good changes to the article. --Richhoncho (talk) 06:15, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Dylan is one of the few people who can be truly called a living legend. The Wookieepedian (talk) 06:52, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Union Sundown

In this edit, a sentence about Dylan's previous criticism of foreign manufacturing in the song "Union Sundown" was removed. Why's that? The Infidels page even describes the song's relation to the topic in detail. Flipping Mackerel (talk) 22:38, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

The Infidels page does discuss the content of "Union Sundown", but it conatins no citations, it's written like a personal essay and is the writer's interpretation of this song. I've put a version of your sentence back into the article, citing it to Heylin 2010, where the writer discusses how Dylan views global capitalism and the decline of American manufacturing, going back to his 1964 song "North Country Blues". fwiw Heylin's opinion of "Union Sundown" is that the song "struggles to turn the homilies he has accrued about world economics into a coherent (or even cogent) lyric." So maybe we shouldn't take "Union Sundown" and Dylan's economic views too seriously. I have mixed feelings about the value of adding to an already-long biographical entry on Dylan, and other editors may wish to revise or remove this point. Mick gold (talk) 08:32, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Nice solution. Personally, I agree that singers who only occasionally pick up specific political topics shouldn't be pinned to them, but since someone had decided to mention it, I thought it'd be valuable to give some context. Flipping Mackerel (talk) 02:12, 23 May 2014 (UTC)