Talk:J. Fred Muggs

This article was on votes for deletion, the consensus was to keep it. See the archived discussion for further details.

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From the VfD discussion:

• Keep, but I have to wonder if the guy was serious about Garroway drugging the orange juice. I suspect he might have been goofing on the reporter, and maybe we should delete that quotation. JamesMLane 21:40, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Well, the newspaper did say that Preis said it, and I think it's clear from the article that Preis is the source. Could use some tweaking. The trainer and his son are certainly not neutral reporters. Somewhere else, they dispute the claim, elsewhere presented as fact, that Muggs bit Imogene Cocoa on the elbow. I've been sort of wondering about the alleged ages, too (i.e. are these really, as implied, the original J. Fred Muggs and Phoebe B. Beebe? But based on the citations below, I guess I'd say it's by no means impossible.

Lee S. Crandall (1964) The Management of Wild Mammals in Captivity says the "best longevity recorded here" (i.e. at the New York zoo as of 1964) is 25 years, 6 months; "at least four animals are known to have lived in zoological gardens in this country for well over 30 years," and mentions reports from other zoos of "37 years, 9 months, 17 days" and one born 1924 and still alive "apparently in excellent health" in 1963.

• Chaffee zoo "Longevity is around 40 to 45 years"
• Honolulo zoo "Longevity in the wild is 40 to 45 years with exceptional animals reaching 50. There are chimps in captivity that have lived more than 60 years."
• Science Times, animal longevity "Chimpanzee 55 +"

OK, I found the actual New York Observer article, which adds the detail that the alleged drug was Benzedrine. I've added stuff Muggs biting Martha Raye, which Preis says didn't happen. I think it's adequately NPOV now. I believe that Hagan a) heard the story from Preis and b) didn't really believe it but c) thought it was too good not to mention. So he carefully avoids attributing it and prefixes it with the word "Legend has it..." I believe a, b, and c as well and have dealt with it by putting statement, including the disclaimer "Legend has it," in Hagan's mouth. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 16:53, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ooops... I found more stuff. Now, I guess the page is a little lopsided on the anti-Muggs side. Oh, well. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 17:06, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Any truth to the story that Muggs once nearly killed Garroway on-air when he almost strangled him with his necktie? User:JB 20:16, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Nothing like that popped up in my very limited research. Maybe someone else visiting this talk page will know.... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 10:57, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

My bad: the incident happened to Ronald Reagan while filming Bedtime For Bonzo. User:JB 23:37, 23 Oct 2004

Continuing our foray into all things Muggsian, I note that the article on Wyckoff Township, New Jersey claims him as a resident. Well, he had to stay somewhere in the NYC area during his period of stardom. Can any of you chimpanzee researchers confirm this point? JamesMLane 15:05, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Coronation

Wasn't there a certain amount of controversy in Britain in 1953 because J. Fred Muggs' messages had interrupted (recorded) coverage of Elizabeth II's Coronation? RobinCarmody

Indeed there was. Entry altered accordingly. RobinCarmody