Talk:Stetson University College of Law

Possible copyvio

possible Copyvio :) Dlohcierekim 02:56, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Untitled

temporary created {01:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)~}

Links

Most of the links at the bottom do not work. I attempted to remove them - but someone undid my changes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.73.24.46 (talk) 00:08, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Name

The school's website says SU College of Law, not SU Law School. Is there something I'm missing, or does the name need to be changed? Aboutmovies 05:37, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Several points. First, whether you type in SU College of Law into the search field or SU Law School, it will take you to this website, so searching is not a problem. Second, most, if not all law, schools (more than 300 of them) in U.S. are actually "colleges of law" associated with the universities whose names they use. Consequently, most, if not all, law schools, such as those at Yale or Harvard, are all technically "Harvard--College of Law" or "Yale--College of Law" since there wouldn't originally have been a law school without Harvard University or Yale University home school. All law schools are created as part of the universities and are thus often termed as "colleges of law" associated with the university. (Same with business schools, i.e., school of business administration.) However, law school "colleges" at universities are commonly called just law schools with the name of the university they are associated with at front, not as "colleges of law." For example, when you refer to Harvard's "college of law," you frequently say Harvard Law School, or when you refer to Yale's "college of law," you frequently, if not all of the time, will say something like, "I know someone who goes to Yale Law School." Consequently, yes, the law school at Stetson is a "college of law" associated with Stetson University, but when referring to Stetson's "college of law," one would ordinarily say Stetson Law School or Stetson University Law School. Also, note that when referring to law schools in general, you say "I'm looking around the nation for a good law school to go to," you don't say "I'm looking to go to a good college of law." While some law school websites refer to themselves just as "________ ________ Law School," or are more deferential to their home universities and use "________ ________ College of Law" on their websites, all are commonly just call themselves ""_________ __________ Law School." So, to sum up, no, nothing needs to be changed as far as the name of the school is concerned. It's Stetson Law School or Stetson University Law School or Stetson University College of Law or Stetson College of Law or Stetson Law or College of Law at Stetson University or College of Law at Stetson. These are all interchangable. If you're intersted, please visit some of the law school entries for other universities to compare. (RossF18 03:44, 21 April 2007 (UTC))

I know all this as I attend Willamette University College of Law where most merchandise is Willamette Law and that is the common name. But the CoL is the official, which normally is what is used with artilces with re-directs from other common usages. A good place to start is, with any entity, their official website. With this school, it says SU CoL. So that should probably be the case here, otherwise if you want common usage why not just Stetson Law? And if you take a moment to look at the article you may notice that both the infobox title and the official logo inside it say SUCoL (normally the infobox should match the article title). Also, three of the four (the wikimapia I did not open) external links on the page then list the school as SUCoL. Honestly, my question about the name was more sarcastic/rhetorical in nature as the page should be SUCoL. I was simply curious if maybe they recently changed their name. If they have not changed the name, then it should be SUCoL.

BTW, I know they all will get to the page, that's how I found it when I was linking a former prof's bio as the source I was using said SUCoL.

As to your other points, no. Do some research. Not all law schools started as parts of universities (see Lewis & Clark Law School for one I know that is near me), nor are all affiliated with universities (see Phoenix School of Law, California Western School of Law, Concord Law School, Lincoln Law School (Sacramento, CA), Lincoln Law School of San Jose, San Francisco Law School, Southwestern Law School, Thomas Jefferson School of Law, to name a few just through CA on the List of law schools in the US where Stetson is listed as SUCoL). Additionally, Harvard Law School is Harvard Law School as shown on their webpage, as are many schools. Not all were or are _______ _______ College of Law.

Interesting common usgae point, but again no. People say they drive a Ford, but that's not the article name. Same with say working for Disney, shopping at Target, or going to Harvard. All of these common names redirect to the official name of the entity (if you need more let me know and I'll but on my Nike's and run to my HP and use my Oregon State education to search for some more). Aboutmovies 05:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Your points are valid. However, please note that I did say "most, if not all" when I refered to schools being part of universities. There is no point to bite my head off for not doing sufficient research. I admitted this by stating "most" since I had not done the research. If this was rhetoric question, please don't hesitate to change the name to the official one, making sure that the links for everything still work. If you do not wish to edit, but were just pointing this out, well, then what can I say. (RossF18 15:03, 21 April 2007 (UTC))

Cite?

The article contains the sentence, "Over the past dozen years, the school's advocacy program has been, according to some sources, ranked first in the nation eight times, and second three times." I think that claim needs to be supported by some type of citation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.74.22 (talk) 21:54, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

2013 program and ranking updates

{{request edit}}

IN TOP RIGHT SIDEBAR: Update USNWR ranking to 109th "Graduate Schools > Stetson University". U.S. News. Retrieved 14 March 2013.

IN "PROGRAMS" SECTION: Replace first bullet with "Offers J.D. Certificates of Concentration in Advocacy, Elder Law, Environmental Law, International Law and Social Justice; J.D./M.B.A., J.D./Grado (Spanish law degree), J.D./M.I.C.L., and J.D./M.P.H. dual-degree programs; LL.M. in International Law and online LL.M. degree in elder law."Profile - Stetson Law". Stetson University College of Law. Retrieved 14 March 2013."

IN "STANDINGS" SECTION: Replace first sentence with "Stetson University is ranked #74 in the National Jurist's rankings of the top 80 law schools in the United States." "Best Law Schools Revisited". National Jurist. Retrieved 14 March 2013.

ALSO IN "STANDINGS" SECTION: Replace first bullet with "Ranked 109th among law schools nationally. The school is ranked first in trial advocacy, fifth in legal writing, and 40th in part-time law. "Graduate Schools > Stetson University". U.S. News. Retrieved 14 March 2013.

 Done. Thank you for your contribution. –Mabeenot (talk) 02:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Stetson University affiliation/link

Since Stetson University College of Law remains a part of Stetson University, perhaps that Wikipedia page should be linked in the first sentence? Example: Stetson University College of Law, founded in 1900, is Florida's first law school.

I'd do it myself, but I work for Stetson so it's a COI.

 Done. Thank you for your contribution. Voceditenore (talk) 16:58, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

2014 program and ranking updates

IN TOP RIGHT SIDEBAR: Update USNWR ranking to 93rd. U.S. News & World Report http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

Done Voceditenore (talk) 08:45, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Update Bar pass rate to: 89.3% (july 13); 93.9% (Feb. 13). Stetson University College of Law http://www.stetson.edu/law/about/home/profile.php. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

Partially done. I used only the most recent. Voceditenore (talk) 08:45, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Also: Please update logo to new one at http://www.stetson.edu/law/communications/home/media/image/color-stetson-law-logo-high-resolution.jpg

Done. Voceditenore (talk) 10:28, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

IN "PROGRAMS" SECTION: Replace first bullet with "Offers J.D. Certificates of Concentration in Advocacy, Elder Law, Environmental Law, International Law and Social Justice; J.D./M.B.A., J.D./Grado (Spanish law degree), J.D./M.I.C.L., and J.D./M.P.H. dual-degree programs; LL.M. in International Law, LL.M. in Elder Law and LL.M. in Advocacy." . Stetson University College of Law http://www.stetson.edu/law/about/home/profile.php. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

Done. Voceditenore (talk) 08:29, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

IN "STANDINGS" SECTION: Add bullet: “Stetson's July 2013 passage rate for the Florida bar examination was 89.3% compared to an overall pass rate of 77.2% among first-time test takers. In February 2013, 93.9% also passed.” . Stetson University College of Law http://www.stetson.edu/law/about/home/profile.php. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

Partially done. I used only the most recent. Voceditenore (talk) 09:15, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

ALSO IN "STANDINGS" SECTION: Replace first bullet with "Ranked 93rd among law schools nationally. The school is ranked first in trial advocacy, sixth in legal writing, and 37th in part-time law. . U.S. News & World Report http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

Done. Voceditenore (talk) 09:15, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

24.73.119.194 (talk) 18:51, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

I've added reflist so the references are visible temporarily. I'll have a look at this tomorrow. Voceditenore (talk) 19:13, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

All done. See my notes above. Voceditenore (talk) 10:28, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

• 24.73.119.194, if you are planning on making further suggestion in the future, it would greatly help if you could register an account. Otherwise, communication with you becomes quite difficult and you have no way of setting up a watchlist. And it's not clear who's who when this IP is "talking". That IP may have multiple users. Voceditenore (talk) 11:10, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Organization of page and more complete/objective sources

Since Stetson University College of Law is an academic institution, I would like to request that the "Programs" and "Standings" section be moved to the top of the entry, and the "Employment" and "Cost" sections be given a lower priority on the page.

Also, the details on these more recent section changes include several important exclusions and errors. On the ABA statistics cited in the Employment section, the full-time long-term bar passage required employment rate is actually 62%. When you add the total employment rates for those in bar passage required, J.D. advantage, professional positions, or pursuing a full-time graduate degree (not including those working in non-professional positions), the total rate is 91.27%. The ABA is the primary accreditor for all law schools, giving these reports important objective credibility.

In the Cost section, the first sentence references West Virginia University instead of Stetson University College of Law. It also uses a period instead of a comma for the total cost of attendance. The actual tuition and fee amounts were deleted recently, so I would like to request that they be added back in. Full-time tuition for 2014-15 is $38,584 with fees of $320 for the year.

Also in the Cost section, the debt-financed cost referenced in the current entry makes several assumptions: that every student maxes out their access to loans for three years with no outside work or income of any type, plus it makes assumptions for inflation and interest rates. Based on the subjective nature of these assumptions, I would recommend that the debt-financed cost of attendance item be removed from the article.

THANK YOU for your consideration of these recommendations.

PS--Does the May 2009 request for additional citations still need to be there? The page has evolved quite a bit since then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TampaEditor (talk • contribs) 20:28, 24 July 2014 (UTC)‎

TampaEditor, here's what I did—a fairly major reorganization of the article to comply with the recommended section headings, section content, and style per Wikipedia:College and university article guidelines. The tuition is now simply stated in the "Academics" section were it belongs. The business about estimated cost of living and cost of various assumptive debt finance figures is random, imprecise, unencyclopedic detail. I removed it. The employment and underemployment scores are adequately explained in the article text. I saw no reason to remove them or alter them to a different "spin". I've replaced the embedded lists with prose, moving the rankings and employment figures to the "Academics" section and the various law school contests to the "Student life" section. The "additional citations" tag is definitely still needed. For one thing, all but one of the claims in the "Student life" section are unsourced, as are several claims in the "Academics" section, e.g. "Centers of excellence". Who says they are, apart from the college itself? The notable faculty and alumni also ought to be checked. Any name which does not have a reference in that person's article verifying their status as a faculty member or alumnus should have a reference added or be removed. Every red-linked name in those lists, e.g. Peter N. Meros, requires an inline citation or should be removed. Voceditenore (talk) 13:58, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Voceditenore. Even though the employment scores are explained, they are inaccurate when compared to the cited ABA report (footnote #8, "ABA Required Disclosure"). It isn't spinning the data when the "full-time, long-term, JD-required employment nine months after graduation" count on the official report is 199/321 graduates, which is 62%. I respect your decision on this and your other recommendations for the other citations (we usually take a laissez faire approach to this page unless we see something inaccurate or distorted). Thanks! TampaEditor (talk) 14:42, 25 July 2014 (UTC)