Talk:Clark Aldrich

Removed prod

This article was proposed for deletion. I have removed it given that a Google News Archive search comes up with a number of articles which indicate notability. [1]

I really like Wikipedia and think that it is growing in value month-by-month, year-by-year, but I really don't understand decisions like this - I mean, surely someone who is a published author deserves an entry here. Why can't that be taken as a ruling? (by bcgstanley) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcgstanley (talk • contribs) 12:23, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Quotes

I removed them for 2 reasons. 1. Wikiquote is for quotes and 2. WP:BLP requires that "All quotations...must be explicitly attributed to a reliable, published source, which is usually done with an inline citation." Sean.hoyland - talk 17:47, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Source

Conduit, the magazine of the Department of Computer Science at Brown University, have an article about him. He studied there. They refer to him as Clark Wezniak Aldrich (see pp 6-8). If that is his full name it can and should be included in the first sentence per WP:FULLNAME. The article a good source that could be used for this article, which seems to be lacking sourcing required by WP:BLP at the moment. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:47, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Actually, his birth name was Clark Wezniak; I have no idea where the "Aldrich" came from. The Bangor Daily News of 27 July 1989 refers to him as "Clark Wezniak, a counselor for the Chewonki Foundation Camp in Wiscasset..." (Bangor Daily News) Clark also references Camp Chewonki on his business website ( http://www.clarkaldrichdesigns.com/2011/11/chewonki-illuminati.html ), so it's clearly the same person. "Wezniak" is the surname that shows up on Clark's public marriage record from 1991, accessible through Connecticut's state vital records database. Clark's father is Frank Wezniak and his mother's maiden name is "Tull". The webzine CEORoundtableBlog.com has an article about Frank here: http://ceoroundtableblog.com/2011/12/frank-wezniak-photovac-member-in-the-news/ Père Wezniak is likewise an alumnus of Brown (Class of '54) -- the same alma mater as Clark; one can see photos of him in this Brown Alumni webzine: http://alumni.brown.edu/classes/1954/events.html . Clark seems to have assumed "Aldrich" at about the same time that he married Lisa Eastwood, who runs the website "The Daily Prep" under the nom de plume "Muffy Aldrich". And BTW: this information is all sourced from public records. Any living person with a wiki that essentially promotes them and their work as being notable (and, for that matter, anyone who runs a lifestyle website about her own life) cannot expect to be able to conceal their real names from the public. It's no secret that Ralph Lauren was really born "Ralph Lifshitz", so Clark Aldrich's birth name being "Clark Wezniak" can't be concealed as classified information. Long story short: his birth name should indeed be part of the article. I would also argue that his wife, as a public figure whose website is largely engaged in self-promotion, should be mentioned; she's probably more widely recognized than he. Occam's Shaver (talk) 09:30, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

It's worth mentioning that the 1989 Brown graduation commencement book lists his name as "Clark Bennett Wezniak" ( http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/purl/purlResolver?id=/lilly/meier/printable/VAB8339-16336 ). By 2006, the Brown Alumni magazine "Conduit" is lists him as "Clark Wezniak Aldrich" ( http://cs.brown.edu/about/conduit/conduit_v15n1.pdf ), and he now goes by "Clark Bennett Aldrich". Curious evolution. Occam's Shaver (talk) 22:19, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

According to documentation here (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27077549/Clark%20Aldrich.pdf), Clark Aldrich's birth surname was indeed Aldrich. Further, according to the same genealogy report, he is the 11th great grandson of both Governors John Winthrop and Thomas Dudley. This is consistent with his bio here: http://unschooling-rules.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html#bio At this point, insistence by the troll community at Get Off My Internets of the birth name Wezniak is best characterized as libelous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Intrepid French Learner (talk • contribs) 17:38, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

See WP:BLP for what qualifies as a reliable source for living people here (and you should probably read WP:NLT). Sean.hoyland - talk 17:43, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Clark Aldrich was born, no surprise, Aldrich. See genealogy report here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27077549/Clark%20Aldrich.pdf

According to the same report, Clark Aldrich is the ninth great-grandson of Governors John Winthrop and Thomas Dudley, first and second Governors of the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

The statement that Clark Aldrich was born Clark Wezniak is not true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Intrepid French Learner (talk • contribs) 19:06, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Was Conduit, the magazine of the Department of Computer Science at Brown University linked at the top of this section, wrong when they referred to him Clark Wezniak Aldrich ? If so, are you aware of an explanation for the error, an explanation based on published reliable sources ? Sean.hoyland - talk 19:18, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Intrepid French Learner wrote "Clark Aldrich was born, no surprise, Aldrich". Really? So, would you automatically presume that Ralph Lauren was born Lauren? In fact, he was born "Ralph Lifshitz". How about former President Gerald Ford? His birth surname was actually King. Cary Grant? (born Archibald Leach) -Tony Curtis? (born Bernard Schwartz) -John Wayne? (born Marion Morrison) So, it's nonsensical to presume that the surname someone uses later in life is the same as the one they're born with. Occam's Shaver (talk) 20:07, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Intrepid French Learner wrote "See genealogy report here: (link to a document from 'The Society of the Descendants of the Founding Fathers of New England')" That group is a very minor one and of dubious legitimacy. Google page results for it are under 1,500; compare that to other minor hereditary groups like say, Flagon and Trencher -- an hereditary organization for descendants of proprietors of Colonial-era taverns -- which still has more than 3 times the Google pages than "The Society of the Descendants of the Founding Fathers of New England". What documentation does that group require? Do they require certified copies of all birth, death and marriage records, like the General Society of Colonial Wars or the Society of the Cincinnati? Apparently not. Their website has a form that would-be members fill out and send in with fee. And why would the "genealogy report" have so many redactions? Why would anyone black-out every name in the generations between the 18th century and the present? And more to the point: why would anyone redact one of their own middle names? How could it possibly pose more of a risk to their privacy than their surname would? Occam's Shaver (talk) 20:23, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

The name Clark Wezniak Aldrich does not exist outside of Conduit magazine. It is reasonable to assume it is not accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Intrepid French Learner (talk • contribs) 19:28, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia editors don't really have the latitude to make assumptions. They need to follow the reliable published sources. If there are multiple versions and inconsistencies, as is often the case for a great deal of information covered by Wikipedia, they usually reflect the variety unless there is a compelling evidence based reason not to do so. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:42, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

The above statement "Clark Aldrich's birth name being "Clark Wezniak" is wrong and, in the above context, libelous. The statement "Actually, his birth name was Clark Wezniak" is again, wrong and libelous in the above context. The statement "I have no idea where the "Aldrich" came from." has been answered numerous times, including here. It is his family name. In this situation, there is even a genealogical document stating that his father is Aldrich. Numerous similar assumptions written as fact - in the context of the comment - are wrong and again libelous. There have been two stalkers spreading similar lies in various online chatrooms, and for the most part, they have been kicked off by the moderators that have policies against personal vendettas, libel, cyber harassment, and stalking. Intrepid French Learner (talk) 22:01, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

You need to stop using the word libelous per WP:NLT. I'm aware that there is a back story to this (that I don't understand) but the way to resolve this here is by following Wikipedia policy. The genealogical document is not going to be useful as a source because it doesn't meet the requirements of WP:BLPSOURCES. Can you comment on the The Bangor Daily News source of 27 July 1989 that refers to "Clark Wezniak, a counselor for the Chewonki Foundation Camp in Wiscasset". Do you know whether that is the same person as Clark Aldrich or a different person, and if so can you explain how you know ? Sean.hoyland - talk 03:43, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Also you say The statement "I have no idea where the "Aldrich" came from." has been answered numerous times, including here. It is his family name. How do you know what his family name is and where is the evidence to support the statement. The genealogical document is not evidence. It has no value here in terms of content decisions so please do not refer to it again. Sean.hoyland - talk 08:44, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Again, "Clark Aldrich's birth name being "Clark Wezniak" is wrong and, in the above context, libelous. It is textbook libel. Beyond that, if Wikipedia as a system is broken, so be it. ----

Intrepid French Learner, it seems that you do not understand the meaning of the word "libel". Here's what Dictionary.com says:
"Libel -
1.a. defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures.
1.b. the act or crime of publishing it.
1.c. a formal written declaration or statement, as one containing the allegations of a plaintiff or the grounds of a charge.

2. anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents."

NONE of that has happened. It is not "defamatory", "malicious" or "damaging" to state that someone has changed their name; hundreds of people legally change their names every day and for a variety of reasons; many of them perfectly legitimate. Second, in order for something to be libellous, it must be untrue. So even if it were somehow defamatory or malicious, you have in no way demonstrated that it is untrue. So please stop playing amateur lawyer here; it's not libel. Occam's Shaver (talk) 10:56, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Making assertions without supporting evidence, the kind of evidence that Wikipedia accepts, won't resolve anything. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:57, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, Intrepid French Learner, but you seem to misunderstand the way that Wikipedia works. That link you provided is to a primary source, not a reliable secondary one. You understand, I trust, that anyone can make any claim on their personal website; citing them as a source is what is called a "circular argument". Second, there are a number of compelling secondary sources that refute your assertion. There are two possibilities; only one of them can be correct. Either Clark's birth name is Clark Bennett Aldrich and many other sources are wrong, or those sources are correct and Clark is wrong.
Clark states in a number of different places that he got his degree from Brown in 1989. I have a copy of the commencement program from that year. There is no one with the surname "Aldrich" listed. There is, however, a "Clark Bennett Wezniak". Can you explain this? It's possible, but unlikely, that "Conduit" gave Clark the wrong name when quoting him. But the Bangor Daily News article about the Chewonki Foundation Camp in Wiscasset explicitly refers to a camp counselor named "Clark Wezniak". This is the same Chewonki Foundation Camp that Clark Aldrich is still associated with and lists himself as having been a camp counselor there. Furthermore, Ancestry.com states that one "Clark B. Wezniak", born in 1967 (which perfectly matches Clark having graduated from high school in 1985, as he states in a number of places) got married in 1991 Madison, New Haven County, CT. -- the same rather small town that Clark Aldrich is listed as living in today, according to a number of directories. There's a Douglas Wezniak who attended Groton, just like Clark lists himself as having done; another curious coincidence. Also, not that it's necessarily proof, but a gentleman and fellow Brown alumnus (class of '54, which would make him the right age to be Clark's father) named Frank Wezniak (shown in the Brown Alumni magazine cited above), bears a truly remarkable resemblance to Clark. http://alumni.brown.edu/classes/1954/images/marsh5509s.jpg and https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8484/8247170973_445de04151_z.jpg Frank Wezniak lives in the Boston area which is also where the Fenn School is, which Clark states that he attended. And then, there's this curiosity: on the Amazon.com page for Clark Aldrich's book "Learning by Doing", there's a glowing review by someone named "Bennett Wezniak", left on April 29, 2005 (the first review for the book). Now, what are the odds that someone named "Bennett Wezniak" would leave a review for a book by Clark Bennett Aldrich, if they were in no way connected? Or isn't it more likely that Clark Bennett Wezniak simply wrote a review for his own book? (I've no doubt that the review is going to mysteriously disappear ASAP, but it's been archived.) Finally, you say that the changes made to Clark Aldrich's wiki are due to "...insistence by the troll community at Get Off My Internets of the birth name Wezniak..." I didn't know what you meant by this until I Googled it and found the page you're referring to. But that doesn't explain why you, whoever you are, care what Clark Aldrich's birth name is, was or wasn't. Occam's Shaver (talk) 18:00, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Posting this issue to the living people board - Mosfetfaser (talk) 18:02, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

To add another source: a number of genealogical databases/websites such as Ancestry.com, quote US Public Records Indices 1 and 2 as recording that one Clark Bennett Wezniak was born in Massachusetts on 3 January 1967, which is the same birthdate listed in a number of sources for Clark Bennett Aldrich. The genealogical sites also list people by those two names as having lived at the exact same addresses in Weston, MA and Madison, CT. As a nod towards privacy, I won't post a link to those addresses here, but suffice it to say that anyone with a few minutes and a search engine can easily confirm this to be true. Those sources also list the Connecticut marriage record for Clark B. Wezniak and Lisa Eastwood in Madison, CT in 1991. And who should happen to be listed in the incorporation record of Clark Bennett Aldrich Designs LLC? Someone named Lisa Eastwood. So it's kind of ridiculous to even be having this debate. No reliable secondary sources has been presented to demonstrate that Clark Aldrich was born with that name; the best that's been offered was a purported (but heavily redacted) chart of descent, purchased from an "hereditary society", posted on Mr. Aldrich's own website. However, a significant amount of evidence is available showing that he was born Clark Wezniak and then changed his name has, including genealogical websites and public records, school alumni records, newspapers, etc. There's nothing inherently wrong with someone changing their name; people do it all the time and for a variety of good reasons. But the zeal with which some are denying that this happened is misguided and ultimately, futile. Occam's Shaver (talk) 03:58, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Dubious education claim should be removed

Under "Background: Childhood and education", the article states "He [Aldrich] received his Bachelor Degree in Cognitive Science from Brown University." According to Aldrich's Linkedin profile, he got that degree from Brown in 1989[2]. Unfortunately, Brown University does not seem to agree with this claim. I have a copy of the 1989 Graduation Commencement Program from Brown which lists every graduate. There is no one listed by the name of "Clark Aldrich". Unless someone can provide reliable secondary evidence to the contrary, I move that the claim for a degree from Brown be removed as unreliable. Occam's Shaver (talk) 04:11, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

The trolls are laughing at Wikipedia over at GOMI. They think vandalized Wiki Pages are the best. They may be total losers, but they have a lot of free time on their hands. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Intrepid French Learner (talk • contribs) 18:17, 5 August 2014 (UTC)