Talk:Premakeerthi de Alwis

Death

Alwis, who was 42, was dragged from his house and murdered on the night of July 31, 1989. The murder has been blamed on the Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna, although no official ruling has been made. And There is another Suspicion about Hudson samarasinghe who has handled this case. Wife of premakeerthi who Nirmala De alwis promoting this issue on her book ‘'Premakeethini’’ which publish on 2010. There was a conflict with premakeerthi and Hudson relate to position about director general in SLBC on that time . former president Ranasinghe Premadasa Had an idea about premakeerthi appoint to this post.Hudson Samarasinghe was a right hand man of Premadasa on that time. But there is no any fix Judgment or evidences that who has done this murder still. ”

User talk:Ramya20's contribution is to Wikipedia only avoid this issue . Because I have a doubt that he or she is sock puppet of Hudson samarasinghe . The issue which i mention is promoting by Wife of premakeerthi who Nirmala De alwis on her book Premakeethini which publish on 2010. User:Bigger digger tell that this book cannot find out in Google searching . It is correct because it takes few more month on appear ISBN web sites . But no one can refuse this valuable issue. There is already published on a blog translation [1] Wikipedia we have a possibility to translate context of articles. I am trying to promote all issues about this murder case through neutral point of view .I request to assist solve this problem to administrator in Wikipedia.--Wipeouting (talk) 11:08, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Third opinion

Hi Wipeouting,

I have had a look at Premakeerthi de Alwis following a request by Ramya20 at WP:3O. The allegations surrounding his death that you wish to have included in the article must be sourced more carefully. The book mentioned doesn't appear on any database: Google Books, Internet Book Database, Worldcat, or Open Library so is very hard to consider it as verifiable. A blog translation [2] of a book that doesn't seem to exist, with a translation, is also unsuitable. If the translation was included on a website that could be considered a WP:Reliable source or if the existence of the book could at least be verified, then we could move this situation forward. At the moment I would ask you to resist re-adding the allegation until better evidence is forthcoming. I will give the article a quick copy edit to tidy it up as well. Thanks for editing! Bigger digger (talk) 18:09, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and I would encourage you to discuss issues with the article at its talk page: Talk:Premakeerthi de Alwis so that other editors interested in the article can contribute. Thanks, Bigger digger (talk) 18:12, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

copied from User_talk:Bigger_digger#Premakeerthi_de_Alwis Bigger digger (talk) 19:28, 17 October 2010 (UTC)Dear friend, this issue is actual and few of persons who want to avoid this issue. The user User:Ramya20 only contribute to Wikipedia delete this issue . I have a doubt on this user sock puppet of Hudson samarasinhe . This issue is promoting by Wife of premakeerthi who Nirmala De alwis on her book ‘’Premakeethini’’ which publish on 2010. you User:Bigger digger are mention that this book cannot find out in Google searching . It is correct because it takes few more month on appear ISBN web sites . But no one can refuse this issue. There is already published on a blog translation [3] Wikipedia we have a possibility to translate context of articles. I request to assist solve this problem to administrator in Wikipedia .--Wipeouting (talk) 18:37, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I like to keep conversations in the same place, so have replied here, I have this page watchlisted. There is not a problem with waiting for this book to appear in listings, there is no deadline, and this claim has been 20 years in the making. To wait another month or so to ensure it is verifiable is no big deal, but if this is just baseless gossip then it is not suitable for inclusion. Bigger digger (talk) 19:28, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Dear Friend , This is a verifiable.That is why wife of premakeerthi published a book telling this

issue .It is researcher and investigative publication . we should publish this issue on Wikipedia .--Wipeouting (talk) 02:59, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, you say she published the book? This blog page would suggest so too. This makes the book a self-published source, and not admissable - especially per this line: Self-published sources should never be used as third-party sources about living persons. You are attempting to use this book as a source about Hudson Samarasinhe, a living person, so it is not acceptable. I will put a notice at WP:BLP/N for some additional opinions for you. Bigger digger (talk) 11:25, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I found you have already listed it at WP:BLP/N - I hope you don't object to me editing it there, I think we will get a better response. Bigger digger (talk) 12:53, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

The following two opinions were left at User talk:Wipeouting ([4] & [5]). Copied here to keep the conversation centralised.

We appreciate your interest but until the sources can be verified it just cannot be included. I have removed the adminhelp request and suggest the discussion be maintained at the article talk page. JodyB _talk 11:31, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

• The blog translations of the book are not reliable sources.

If the book is not yet available, then the information is not verifiable.

Please wait until the book is available before adding the information. There is no deadline, so it is no problem to wait.

If you have further questions about that, please ask on the reliable sources noticeboard.

• If you think another user is using "sock-puppet" accounts, and have good evidence, then you could ask for a sock-puppet investigation. See instructions there.
• Note: I am not an administrator; however, as this question is regarding content, I felt I could answer it. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  11:33, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it is clear that it is not suitable to include those allegations based on the current sourcing. Other opinions always welcome. Bigger digger (talk) 14:06, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Fourth opinion

There are number of RS books that describe his death and potential murderers. See google book search Here. As long as neutral and encylopedic language is used, it is not difficult to write about this individual, his life and death including who may have done it. One has to go to a library that has these books and get it done. Kanatonian (talk) 03:33, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

There are other articles and book available in Sinhala Language about this issue. This Internet book searching result is not enough for your fourth opinion. we have to wait until Wife of Premakeerthi ( nirmala de Alwis )'s book of PREMAKEERTHINI will appear on internet. She wrote this book using her experiences and there should be a space for her investigation result too--Wipeouting (talk) 04:12, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Kanatonian, thanks for your input. The problem is that Wipeouting wants this specific claim included from the widow. The problem is it can only be sourced to her self-published book, and no other sources have taken notice of it. Wipeouting, the source is not acceptable, I could have a book published myself which suggests that a wikipedia editor had a hand in the murder, but that too would be an unacceptable source. See WP:SPS for more information. Bigger digger (talk) 13:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Wipeouting, This is an English Wikipedia, foreign langauge sources are not generally aceptable. Her book may be used in the Sinhala wikipedia as long as it meets WP:RS rules. Please read the rules, just because a book is avaialble in the library or internet, it does not become an acceptable source. It has to follow the rules established. Currently, there are are seems to be number of RS books, all what one has to do is go to a library get them and source it, if that is what is needed. Thanks Kanatonian (talk) 15:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Wipeouting seems to be sending out messages to a variety of editors asking for help getting this claim put back in the article. I got a note too. I've read the prior discussion, and I have to concur that trying use a self-published book for this sourcing is highly problematic and simply not appropriate in this case. -- Whpq (talk) 13:14, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

FAO User:Wipeouting

Per the two sections above this one, your edit to the article to include a theory of Premakeerthi's death proposed only by his wife in a self-published source (see WP:SPS) has not achieved WP:CONSENSUS. Repeated efforts on your part to include this information have met with resistance from a number of editors and I recommend you discuss your proposed changes here before making the edit again. Many thanks, Bigger digger (talk) 15:50, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

I am asking from Ramya20 how do you say that Nirmala de alwis's issue is a Fiction ? What is your idea about murder of Preamakeerthi? Because it is blame to JVP? is it correct  ? I am tiring to put Those two of issues for Academic purpose on middle of point. i am telling there is a suspension about JVP and Hudson Samarasinghe . why do you want to avoid this issue ? --Wipeouting (talk) 18:20, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Bigger digger ask me that The book cannot find out through any search engine . now it is appear on internet.[6] This is not a self publish fiction . premakeerthini is a research about his murder which publish as a book . how do you say that is self publication ?--Wipeouting (talk) 18:36, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Wipeouting, you have grasped hold of a small part of my overall point. The book's listing on Worldcat does show it exists, but it is not a question of the book existing, the problem is that the book is self-published. Please read WP:SPS. This is evidenced by the blog reprint at http://premakeerthini.blogspot.com/2010/10/premakeerthini.html which states:

---

PREMKEERTHINI
By
Nirmala De Alwis
2010
publisher - Nirmala de Alwis
Pages-225
Price-RS 480/=

ISBN - 978-955-51833-0-7
Nirmala de Alwis
Real Art of the Media House
++94 071 2475327
premakeerthi.nk@gmail.com

---

Nirmala de Alwis is listed as the publisher. This is supported by the worldcat listing here which shows Nirmala de Alwis as author, publisher and notes it as her "responsibility".

Claims should not be based on a self-published source, there ought to be outside sources to discuss these issues. For example, if a newspaper were to review the book and note this theory I would be happy to find a way to include it.

I also asked at the Biographies of living persons Noticeboard the last time this issue came up, for the insight of editors there. It was probably not the correct venue to visit as Premakeerthi is dead, but someone else added their opinion, see here.

If you have any queries please continue to discuss here. Bigger digger (talk) 22:34, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

It is my openion that the user's persistant to include this accusation is a personal attack against a living person. I am confident that the blog posts that were listed earlier by the user wipouting were created by himself/herself based on the language/grammer usage and timing. This case has been closed in 1994 with a murder conviction (which I don't have any internet sources to support). For 20 years, no major news paper or major publisher pointed finger at Hudson Samarasinghe except for well known gossip/attack papers like "trishulaya" or "ravaya". If a new accusation comes out after 20 years since his death, I would be very suspicious whether if it is authentic. Wipeouting is only going to get JVP front news sites like lankatruth, lankanewsweb, etc. to publish a book review which I think is still unacceptable. If you would dig a bit deeper into this issue, all major news papers in Sri Lanka like, dailynews, sundayleader, lankadeepa, etc, they are all listing JVP as the responsible party for this murder.

Based on the few pages that were displayed on the blog posts, I can feel the venom of Nirmala De Alwis against Samarasinghe rather than an investigation that has been closed with a conviction in 1994(Ramya20 (talk) 15:23, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

One more note about the book; the author, Nirmla De Alwis not only accuses Samarasinghe of the Premakeerthi's mudrder, she also accuses Samarasinghe of the murder of Thevis Guruge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thevis_Guruge). This book is completely inappropriate for a venue like Wikipedia with or witout reviews.(Ramya20 (talk) 15:55, 9 November 2010 (UTC))

Ramya, Wipeouting has been blocked again for WP:COPYVIO, I'm not sure there will be a return. However, I suggested we could look again at the issue if a WP:RS looks at the book, not that it would then be included. It would be really useful if you could track down a source that states there was a conviction, as the article currently says "no ruling has been made" – are you in Sri Lanka, do they keep newspaper records in libraries? Bigger digger (talk) 13:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Bigger digger, I am planning to do this research in December at Sri Lankan archives department where they keep all the records of major newspapers in its original format. I have already requested a copy of the case from Sri Lankan courts. Once I get those documents I will get an official translator to translate them. Do you have any suggestions as where I can upload those documents when I get hold of them?. I thank you very much once again for keeping this nonsense by wipeouting, out of the page. (Ramya20 (talk) 14:44, 10 November 2010 (UTC))

Wow, good work! Have a good read of WP:Verifiability (specifically WP:Verifiability#Accessibility) – I doubt you could upload them if there is still a copyright held in them, as I assume any newspaper article would have. I don't know about the copyright status of Sri Lankan court documents, but if they're WP:Public domain or similar then wikisource.org might be of use. As long as you state where any of the information you obtain comes from, per WP:Citing sources, then that will be ok. Cheers, Bigger digger (talk) 17:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Removed a link to Facebook page[[[User:Ramya20|Ramya20]] (talk) 20:49, 14 December 2010 (UTC)] I got a copy of the court case on the conviction on this case. It is a huge document in Sinhalese. I will get it translated and upload it while ensuring that it would meet all the Wikipedia requirements. [[[User:Ramya20|Ramya20]] (talk) 20:49, 14 December 2010 (UTC)]

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://print.dailymirror.lk/life/132-life/16587.html and http://www.dailynews.lk/2009/07/29/art30.asp. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. VernoWhitney (talk) 20:42, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Death

Should not include book published by ex-wife of Mr. Alwis as self published books are against the wikipedia content policy. This issue has been brought up many times and several admins have agreed that against the content policy as it involves self published book and a living person. Please stop editing the death section without involvment of a third opinion of a wikipedia administrator.

--Ramya20 (talk) 13:14, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Do not include a self published book by his second wife. It is against the Wikipedia policy. This has been noted previously by several moderators and stop including a self published reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.28.168.3 (talk) 23:16, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Disputed Text

If this page is changed again I will request Wikipedia to put a block on it so that this page cannot be vandalized.--Ramya20 (talk) 23:25, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Disputed Text2

This page has been vandalized again on the August 1, 2014. Wikipedia does not allow inserting personal opinions based on their self published books. I will ask for another block on this page to stop vandalizing on this page. I have reverted the page back. Wikipedia is not a venue for slander. The changes seem to come from the same user who was banned (wipeouting now with a different user name) from Wikipedia for repeated violations. He is using similar language just like wipeouting. Please have a discussion before changing the page. --Ramya20 (talk) 19:11, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Disputed Text 3

I can argue that writer's User:Ramya20 (who try to exclude other other valuable footnotes) reference are incorrect. no one can put other language incorrect footage (Sinhala PDF "Murder Conviction-Court Case") on encyclopedia. I invite to administrator involve this matter and include necessary information and footnotes for this article.

=== Death ===

Alwis, who was 42, was dragged from his house and murdered on the night of July 31, 1989. The murder has been blamed on the Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna,but nirmala de Alwis was proved, murder was handled by Hudson Samarasinghe.

===References===

(Academiava (talk) 14:08, 3 August 2014 (UTC))

Disputed Text

This disputed text has been visited numerous times by Administrators and has agreed that wikipedia is no place for personal slander. Inclusion of Premakeerthi;s wife's book based on imagination violate several Wikipedia policies as stated in previous talks. One of the pages that Acamediava, formally known as wipeouting who was banned from the site referencing are official website of JVP (lankatruth), the group who have been accused and convicted of the murder. You can not include her personal views those articles clearly indicates such. His wife does not have any right to change the truth just because she was his wife at the time of death. --Ramya20 (talk) 14:19, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

add multiple issues

I really appreciate if you can add those multiple issues for this article and Fix the problem. User:Ramya20 is representing murder side and remove valuable issues on this article.--Academiava (talk) 15:37, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

User:Academiava, it seems you have a misunderstanding about the role of an admin. It is not an administrator's function to make edits to an article. If you have a dispute with another editor, please follow the process outlined at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. You have started the right way, by posting to the article talk page. If that does not reach a resolution there are other steps, but asking an admin to make the edits is not one of the steps.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:18, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Disputed Text

The fact of the matter is that Nirmala De Alwis's personal opinions cannot be included in Wikipedia page even though they have published in the news media. Those violate several Wikipedia policies. The same news articles clearly indicate that those are her opinions not theirs. For that case, her opinion cannot be included. Academiava alias Wipeouting who was banned from Wikipedia has brought up this issue numerous times and several administrators has refused to allow that content.--Ramya20 (talk) 18:14, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Disputed Text

one one personal opinion should not add the Wikipedia or any encyclopedia. ramya20 is representing murder side and his argument. sinhala language PDF file which user added is not excepted according to Wikipedia policy. at the moment (when 2014 there are new issues exposed in officially ) there are multiple issues about this assassination. ramya20 is trying to avoid to expose those valuable issues. please include all importance information and improve this article. I have added some footage on talk page please refer those.(Academiava (talk) 16:06, 4 August 2014 (UTC)).

Disputed Text

Academiava who is previously known as wipeouting, You are saying the same thing over and over. This is not a place for personal attacks. This issue has been visited by number of Wikipedia administrators and have decided that your content is inappropriate.--Ramya20 (talk) 16:14, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Disputed Text

Proving multiple issues is not a personal attack. It is correct that article has been visited Early Wikipedia administrators. but At the moment situation is change and new information facts are available. Don’t avoid add all necessary fats for this assassination. (Academiava (talk) 16:44, 4 August 2014 (UTC)).

Disputed Text

There are no new facts on this case except the mentioning of her book in the articles you referenced and her making wild alligations. It is the same issue. The only new thing I heard on the radio is that there is a law suit coming on her way for slander and defamation. Please keep Wikipedia out of this mess. The case has been officially investigated and culprits have been brought to justice. Nirmala and Hudson can sort out their differences in the Sri Lankan court system. Please keep her Self Published book out of Wikipedia.--Ramya20 (talk) 16:52, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Disputed Text

Please keep Wikipedia out of your personal mess too. let administrator search news information and facts. please remove wrong Sinhalese language PDF file and incorrect data which you added. i strongly invite to a Wikipedia admin involve this matter and add current situation about this assassination.(Academiava (talk) 04:14, 5 August 2014 (UTC))

That is not what admins do. You need help from other editors. Consider Wikipedia:Third opinion --S Philbrick(Talk) 16:03, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Disputed Text

Get the 5th opinion of an administrator if you would like, but I don't think the outcome is going to be different. Death section should remain as is. Out of curiosity, why did you change your username from wipeouting to Academiava?--20.137.2.50 (talk) 17:14, 5 August 2014 (UTC) Forgot to sign my comment --Ramya20 (talk) 17:22, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Disputed Text

Are you representing side of murder? you did not contribute anything other than to Wikipedia with out this article. you did edit only for this article. you are avoiding truth of Premakeerthi's assassination. please let make an investigation to five or sixth administrator. (Academiava (talk) 18:13, 5 August 2014 (UTC)).

Defamatory Information About Living Persons and Persistent Personal Attacks

Academiava or previously known as wipeouting, please note that persisting posts against Hudson Samarasinghe, a living person is against Wikipedia policy. You are committing persistent personal attacks as well by calling me representing murderers. Both of the above offenses are against the Wikipedia policy. You have continue to do that for years using Wikipedia as a weapon and will not be tolerated. If you continue to use Wikipedia as a tool for personal attacks when several independent administrators have refused to allow your alleged content attacking a living person, I will make a formal request to investigate. Therefore, I suggest that you immediately discontinue this disruptive behavior.--Ramya20 (talk) 14:10, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Just making contributions to a few/one articles is not against Wikipedia policy but publishing defamatory information about living persons is against Wikipedia policy. Her self-published book might be acceptable in your home country Sri Lanka, but not on Wikipedia. I also think that coming back with different usernames (wipeouting to Academiava) when there is a permanent block on your previous username is not favorable to Wikipedia either. You have also previously changed the information in May, anonymously with similar information and Administrators have to put a block on the page to avoid your repeated vandalism.--20.137.2.50 (talk) 17:16, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Defamatory Information against to preamakeerthi

The User is editing since four year to this article only. any administrator or reader see her or his works history. I also really request to investigate this matter. it is not good avoid truth which person who was assassinate by a murder. Therefore, I also suggest that immediately fix with real fact and information of this article to independent administrator. (Academiava (talk) 17:03, 6 August 2014 (UTC))

There is no relation with wipeouting. I also suggest that immediately discontinue this disruptive behavior against to preamakeerthi and block user who is trying to putting sinhala language PDF unrelated footage files and facts to wiky. this use is trying to avoid current fats about this assassination to Wikipedia. I also suggest to independent fifth administrator that immediately fix this article with new information. (Academiava (talk) 04:06, 7 August 2014 (UTC))

Resolving the content dispute

The two of you are just butting heads with each other. Neither of you is willing to consider the validity of the other side. Rather than continuing to argue about this without resolution, I think you need to involve outside assistance as shown in WP:CONTENTDISPUTE. Considering the history here, the nature of the dispute, and the fact that it has already devolved into veiled attacks and accusations, I think you may want to move straight to a Request for comment (RfC). I will help you if I can, but it does not appear that a consensus between the two main actors here is going to happen. —    Bill W.    (Talk)  (Contrib)  (User:Wtwilson3)  — 18:35, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Violation of Wikipedia Policy

Please do not update the page until there is an intervention from official Wikipedia administrative authority.

Academiava, you are not allowed to slander living people on wikipedia. Please do not change the page until further intervention from Wikipedia.--Ramya20 (talk) 18:39, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

What sort of intervention are you looking for? —    Bill W.    (Talk)  (Contrib)  (User:Wtwilson3)  — 19:13, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

I would like a dispute resolution. However, the slanderous comments based on a self published book by the wife of deceased should immediately be removed. It clearly violates Wikipedia policy. All the articles that Academiava is referencing, are only mentioning the allegations that made by his wife and her book. None of the allegations are from the news media. Please remove any reference to Hudson Samarasinghe from this article until this dispute is resolved.--Ramya20 (talk) 19:20, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

If you would like to begin the RfC process, you will do that yourself per the instructions in the link above.—    Bill W.    (Talk)  (Contrib)  (User:Wtwilson3)  — 19:58, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

The User-Ramya20 is doing edit to Wikipedia since four year just only for this article. Please see user’s work history. There is no policy which cannot include living people’s names to Wikipedia. Nirmala published her work after 25 years research. Ramya20 has published own Sinhala language PDF file to Wikipedia. It is representing user’s personal idea. Please make an online investigation about this valuable journalist murdered. Don’t let any invalid fats to appear on Wikipedia. We really appreciate if you can add those issues.

Death

Premakeerthi de Alwis was murdered during the UNP regime of Ranasinghe Premadasa on July 31, 1989. As the JVP, left-nationalist revolutionaries, had embarked on a violent struggle against the regime in power, the rumor was spread that he was killed by the Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna then . Somehow the truth behind Premakeerthi's murder remained mysterious until recently when his wife Nirmala came up with the allegation that Hudson Samarasinghe, executed her husband with the help of a hired assassin.