Jump to content

Talk:Dub music: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous editNext edit →
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
m fix archive
m Archiving 21 discussion(s) to Talk:Dub (music)/Archive 1) (bot
Line 16: Line 16:
}}
}}
{{archive box |search=yes |auto=long}}
{{archive box |search=yes |auto=long}}

==Psydub==

Psydub is another derivate form of dub, it`s a mix of psychedelic downbeat music und dub, it is mostly common in the goatrancesubculture and there it is played in ambientrooms mostly.

ektoplazm.com is a site which is also a free common use site for psydub. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/77.23.54.149|77.23.54.149]] ([[User talk:77.23.54.149|talk]]) 13:44, 22 April 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


==Untitled==
==Untitled==
In the main article "dub" is identified as an abbreviation of "double" which, of course, it is not. Since this is my first visit (wanted to see if this weekend's 10th. anniversary party at Elbo Room was mentioned) I don't know how/where to insert the fact that "dub" is an abbreviation for "dubbing", as in "overdubbing"
In the main article "dub" is identified as an abbreviation of "double" which, of course, it is not. Since this is my first visit (wanted to see if this weekend's 10th. anniversary party at Elbo Room was mentioned) I don't know how/where to insert the fact that "dub" is an abbreviation for "dubbing", as in "overdubbing"

== Dub music/Dub reggae merged==
It appears as though the two topics have been merged ([[Dub reggae]] redirects to [[Dub music]]), so I'm going to "comment out" the discussion of merging the two. I'll leave it in the HTML for the Talk page, though, just in case I'm mistaken or we need to revive the discussion. [[User:Oed|Oed]] 03:08, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

<!--- BEGIN COMMENTING OUT OF MERGE DEBATE ---
== Dub and dub reggae - merge and expand? ==
there is a separate article on [[dub reggae]]. Will someone please clarify the relation between these two concepts, and add an appropriate link? [[User:Ike9898|ike9898]] 14:51, Jan 31, 2004 (UTC)

Dub reggae was a sort of musical necessity born out of poverty. In Jamaica clever record producers realised that instead of paying a band to record a second side of a single, they could simply put the instrumental "version" on the b-side.

It was this "version" that became the music that King Tubby would use to make his Dub. By separating the 4-tracks recorded - drums, bass, guitar and vocals and adding effects to each channel, Tubby managed to create a sonic landspace that he could control via his mixing console sliders. Building and dropping each instrument from the mix, increasing and decreasing the level and amount of each effect.

Tubby had invented the notion of using the streaming analog tape's channels as sources for his musical palette. Using the drama of sustain, echo and delay (Tubby was an electrical engineer who built his own effects) he made the timed pulsations of a crashing hi-hat and the distorted, throbbing pulse of the bass - new music, dub.

Still don't see the need for separate dubic music and [[dub reggae]] articles. The distinction isn't evident from the articles, and the response above doens't clarify it for me. Although that info is important and should probably go in any article on dub. Could we not merge the two existing pages into one called simply 'dub' that could explain that it's ''both'' a sub-genre of reggae and a genre in its own right? The two pages both add info and would be stronger together than apart. [[User:Mattley|Mattley]] 19:17, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

:I vote yes to merging these two. [[User:Htaccess|Htaccess]] 02:03, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

A very strong yes from me, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 19:25, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes I vote for merging. [dub.com]

I also vote for merging the two articles. [[User:Superfami|Superfami]]

Yes. Straight up - let´s merge... --[[User:Twisturbed Tachyon|Twisturbed Tachyon]] 20:34, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, merge them like a version track. dub is dub, enjoy it. Peace
--- END OF COMMENTING OUT OF MERGE DEBATE --->


== Dub poetry ==
== Dub poetry ==
Line 59: Line 25:


Behold the a-[[Dub poetry|answer]] [[User:Htaccess|Htaccess]]
Behold the a-[[Dub poetry|answer]] [[User:Htaccess|Htaccess]]

== Animal sounds, babys crying? ==
''The music sometimes features processed sound effects and other noises, such as animal sounds, babies crying, and producers shouting instructions at the musicians.''

I've listened to quite a lot of dub, but never heard any other those sounds... should be removed

Then you probably haven't heard some of the numerous tracks that feature these effects. Joe Gibbs, for one, has used babies crying, cars honking, etc. And the part about producers and muscicans shouting to each other? I've heard that on numerous recordings, including King Tubby, Augustus Pablo and several others. This part should surely not be deleted. I edited this article so that King Tubby was mentioned before Lee Perry, and mentioned his status as being recognized as the inventor of dub. --[[User:Twisturbed Tachyon|Twisturbed Tachyon]] 09:11, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Lee Perry is fond of making these sounds himself, for example on ''Experryments at the grass roots of dub''. I wouldnt consider it particularily genre defining though. [[User:Htaccess|Htaccess]] 02:02, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Whereas it is technically correct that some dubs have included those particular sounds, might it not be more broadly correct to say ''The music sometimes features non instrumental sounds and heavily processed sound effects''. [[User:Superfami|Superfami]]

A bit late to say it, but whoever wrote that may well have been thinking of the dub side of Culture's ''I'm Not Ashamed'' single. [[User:BTLizard|BTLizard]] 12:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

== King Tubby was the inventor of Dub ==

Dub music was originally an accidental creation. It started with Ruddy Redwood's Treasure Isle Sound System that Osbourne Ruddock aka King Tubby operated. Ruddy was given a disc that, through oversight, had no vocal track. Being a popular tune, Rudduck nonetheless played it anyway. The crowd went crazy. Never to far from the latest trends, other producers took note as Jamaica in 1968 got itself caught up in an instrumental frenzy. Tubby was an electronics genius and thought that more could be done to these instrumental "versions". So he introduced self-built primitive echo and reverb units to his own Home Town Hi Fi Sound System, adding the extra-spacial dimension that became the the identifying hallmark of Dub. He even went further by adding his own home built graphic equalizer that enabled him to to take out various parts and accentuate others in a track. It also enabled him to create the signature low end bass sound prevalent in all dub music today. Eventually, with the popularity of dub in the 70's, Tubby became the most sought out engineer in Jamaica.

Source: BBC 2002 article from the sleeve of the CD compilation: King Tubby 100% Dub

: I'd just like to big up whoever listed ''"Surrounded By the Dreads at the National Arena"'' as an, if not the, epochal dub album. That's the way I remember it. As I understood it at the time it was also this show, at which Tubby pioneeringly performed with a multitrack mixing desk live, that made his name in Jamaica. [[User:Wwwhatsup|Wwwhatsup]] 00:59, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

== No... ==

Dub music is not quite always associated with reggae music.

Dub often (very) refers to electronica/ trip hop. Things totally unassociated with reggae music.

[[User:Inanthropomorphism|John]] 05:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Totally false, dub is reggae... big controversy ! <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Alois.cochard|Alois.cochard]] ([[User talk:Alois.cochard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Alois.cochard|contribs]]) 08:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Asian Dub Foundation? ==

Why is Asian Dub Foundation not noted? They are Dub...
--[[User:86.89.24.41|86.89.24.41]] 15:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC)MemoriesOnAcid

Why not? Simple answer -- they are not even remotely a footnote in the history of reggae or dub. I am not saying they are a bad group per se ( surely a subjective conjecture anyway) -- but they are not in any way significant in the history of dub or reggae. Period. They should however, certainly get kudos and heads up in any discussion page related to the history of Asian popular music in the late 20th C UK <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rutherfordlad|Rutherfordlad]] ([[User talk:Rutherfordlad|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rutherfordlad|contribs]]) 12:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Serbians==
[[Black Ark Crew]] may not be notable by themselves; their article is up for deletion. But their existence should probably be noted here as an example of the spread of this music; if the link turns red, I'll delink. [[User:JCScaliger|JCScaliger]] 22:16, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


==Herman Chin==
I had thought it was [[Clive Chin]] who actually did the pioneering production work with Errol T.? [[User:Wwwhatsup|Wwwhatsup]] 04:58, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

==Long Beach Dub All Stars/Shortbus==
Definitely Dub --[[User:146.151.17.90|146.151.17.90]] 07:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

==Dub artists==
I have removed red and external links from the section. Please create an article for the artist/group/band first, and then add it to the list, that way it is easier to weed out unnotable/inappopriate items.
Secondly, I think we should only include artists whose '''main''' genre is dub, not every band who are said to be dub-influenced. Any comments are welcome. [[user:nummer29|#29]]<sup> [[User_talk:Nummer29|(talk)]]</sup> 10:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, a lot of bands are influenced by dub, I think that's important - but, now that Captown is mentioned, why not Primal Scream?
They've made many dub numbers, and a purely dub record, so I think they fit here, as a more well known name in the biz.

== Used widely ==

From the article: "Today, the word 'dub' is used widely to describe the re-formatting of music..." Is this supposed to mean that many people use the word this way? If so, then maybe "widely used" is better. If it's supposed be in contrast to its more narrow original usage, it should read "used broadly". I'm not sure what was intended here.--[[User:Theodore Kloba|Theodore Kloba]] ([[User talk:Theodore Kloba|talk]]) 17:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


== New Zealand ==
== New Zealand ==


Surprised not to see New Zealand featured in this article. Dub and reggae is huge part of their culture.
Surprised not to see New Zealand featured in this article. Dub and reggae is huge part of their culture.

== General Cleanup and Grammar ==

The grammar, punctuation, and topical relevance of much of this article is poor. I've made various changes to grammatical issues, but would like to see if anyone is willing to help clean up the larger issues, such as the Influence of Dub on Punk and Rock Music section, in which the paragraph beginning "Since the beginning of rastafarian dub music, there have been gang issues ..." seems to serve no current purpose, or needs to be completely rewritten. "Peace came when.."; I mean, come on. A lot of this sounds like it was translated by Babelfish. There have to be some people out there who are seriously knowledgeable and want to do more with this article than list bands and give their opinion.--[[User:Genobeeno|Genobeeno]] ([[User talk:Genobeeno|talk]]) 23:31, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

The section Impact on Remixing that begins "'Dubbing' became popular in the late 1960s..." is completely redundant and will be removed.--[[User:Genobeeno|Genobeeno]] ([[User talk:Genobeeno|talk]]) 23:37, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

== Use of Slang ==

Use of slang terminology seems like it doesn't fit with Wikipedia conventions, for example in the use of "riddim" although it could be said that this is a proper noun due to its widespread usage in the genre. Still, it's not widely accepted English and should be either put in quotations or excised.--[[User:Genobeeno|Genobeeno]] ([[User talk:Genobeeno|talk]]) 23:43, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

==Paragraphs not conforming to headers==

The paragraph under ''Influence of Dub on Punk and Rock Music'' beginning "Traditional dub has survived..." seems like it should obviously be moved to the ''21st Century Dub in the Roots Tradition'' section. Is there a reason this would be in the section on influences on Punk and Rock music? Also, the links to non existing articles shoudl be removed from this paragraph.--[[User:Genobeeno|Genobeeno]] ([[User talk:Genobeeno|talk]]) 16:53, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

==History dating convention==
Again, obviously, paragraphs referencing the 1970s probably shouldn't be in the paragraph titled ''Late 1960s: "versions", experiments with studio mixing'', right? I propose an additional subheading for the 1970s. Also, the dating convention should have internal consistency. For example, it should either be 1960s: blah blah blah, or Blah blah blah (1960s), etc. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Genobeeno|Genobeeno]] ([[User talk:Genobeeno|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Genobeeno|contribs]]) 16:59, 16 December 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Cleaning up poor grammar in ''The term'', ''Characteristics'', and ''Recent history'' sections.==
I'm not sure why anyone would revert to the poor grammar used in the earlier version of this article, but I'm going to do my best to clean it up. Overall, this article reads like a fifth grade book report, so, hey, if anyone has meaningful input, please, bring it to the table. Otherwise, please, don't revert reasonable corrections to earlier versions with incorrect grammar and poor spelling.

In the Characteristics section, paragraph one, the phrase "part vocal and extra percussion" is certainly a fragment and should be changed. Unless we can define "part vocal" in relation to "extra percussion", it makes no sense. Also, "echo" is linked to ''echo (phenomenon'') where it should be linked to ''delay (audio effect''. They're two totally different things. Unless someone can show me an instance of producers using natural echo a majority of the time, I'm linking to the audio effect.

The sentence beginning "As opposed to hip hop music terminology..." is poorly written. Elsewhere? Where? "In reggae music, the person with the microphone is called the DJ"? You could have fooled me, because they are called singers for other kinds of reggae. Comparing the terminology for DJ/selector to hip hop is not inclusive of other genres, and narrows the comparison unnecessarily.

In the ''Recent history'' section, we have various ridiculous statements, such as calling Scientist the "rastafarian heavyweight champion of Jamaican dub". There is no such thing. Using this kind of hyperbole might be fine in a 'zine, or when talking to one's friends, but it's a totally ridiculous claim for an encyclopedia article. I'm removing these types of statements throughout the article unless anyone can find me a reason that they need to be kept.
[[User:Genobeeno|Genobeeno]] ([[User talk:Genobeeno|talk]]) 17:06, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


Hm. It seems that there is quite a commitment to poor grammar in this article as people keep reverting poorly written sections. We're going to have to undo that unless a written reason justifying their inclusion is given.--[[User:Genobeeno|Genobeeno]] ([[User talk:Genobeeno|talk]]) 00:41, 10 February 2010 (UTC).

== Hip-Hop ==

Kool Herc, largely considered to be the creator(or major early pioneer) of hip-hop music and culture, was a Jamacian DJ who brought his expreience in the Jamacian Dub scene to the bronx. sources for this information are numerous. ([[User:Drn8|Drn8]] ([[User talk:Drn8|talk]]) 13:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC))


: It would seem this is covered, in a general way, in the 'Influence of dub on popular, electronic, and dance music' section, but without references. If you have some particular source(s) you could consider adding them as refs. [[User:Wwwhatsup|Wwwhatsup]] ([[User talk:Wwwhatsup|talk]]) 22:47, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

: One guy, who may have been relevant to hip-hop at one time but has long since been overshadowed by several decades of other extremely influential artists with much more hefty bodies of work, does not justify saying that hip-hop is derivative of dub. Kool Herc may be derivative of dub, but hip-hop can hardly be called derivative of Kool Herc. Sources need to be found not only for Kool Herc specifically, but also to support the supposed derivative relationship between hip-hop as a whole and dub as a whole. [[User:Eaefremov|EAE]] (''[[User talk:Eaefremov|Holla!]]'') 16:47, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

== recent history: 00's==
I believe the newer french scene should be included, which has been very active with bands like high tone & Kaly live dub. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.57.103.19|81.57.103.19]] ([[User talk:81.57.103.19|talk]]) 07:28, 17 September 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

offensive

== Dub, electronic music and the dubstep movement section ==

The recent additions to the "Dub, electronic music and the dubstep movement" section describing the processes used in making dubstep are almost totally irrelevant to this article, and belong in the (gasp) dubstep article. Seriously, the sooner dub fans and producers who have a limited grasp of the written language stop participating in this article, the better. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Genobeeno|Genobeeno]] ([[User talk:Genobeeno|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Genobeeno|contribs]]) 20:07, 25 March 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

As an electronic music dj, I have a hard time finding any associations whatsoever between dubstep and dub or jungle, other than the use of them in the name. ("step" = jungle) Dubstep isn't really related in any major way to what makes jungle jungle, nor to what makes dub dub. It was just a cool sounding name for an emerging genre of downtempo edm, basically. Not that dubstep is bad, it's just mislabeled. A better approach might be to retitle the section "The use of the word "Dub" in electronic music sub-classification," then mention that the word "Dub" crops up in the moniker of many different sub-genres of electronic music, including Dub House, Ambient Dub, Techno Dub, and Dubstep, and usually references similarities in tempo, bass line, and sample material with Traditional Dub. Then reference Ishkur's Electronic Music Guide over on techno.org as the source. http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/ [[User:Beej67|Beej67]] ([[User talk:Beej67|talk]]) 14:14, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree that the link between "Classic" Dub and Jungle and/or Dubstep is not anywhere near as direct as this section suggests; I'd go so far as to suggest that this section is either original research or just plain wrong. I also agree about the sections' relevance, it at least needs major work and as it stands is a candidate for deletion.

[[User:30 hertz|30 hertz]] ([[User talk:30 hertz|talk]]) 20:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

The whole section on Dubstep should be removed. There isn't a section on the much more vital 'dub techno' genre, which has existed for 20 something years and will continue to be vital long after Dubstep is gone. Not only that but the dub techno genre is TRULY inspired by and references to Dub techniques and musicians, often featuring many of the greats as guests, inspiration, or remixes. So pure and simple, if REAL ELECTRONIC DUB MUSIC IS NOT REPRESENTED IN A WIKI ABOUT 'DUB', then Dubstep should be NOWHERE NEAR this wiki page and all the information should soley reside on the dubstep wiki entry. I mean give me a break, Rhythm and Sound nor Basic Channel are mentioned, but dubstep tips it's hat to itself? You gotta be KIDDING me. [[Special:Contributions/96.28.101.236|96.28.101.236]] ([[User talk:96.28.101.236|talk]]) 09:16, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
* Yes, yes and yes. Seconded. Dubstep is not dub. And even though these two are often confused, it doesn't make it any more correct. It's gotta go. I also agree that both Rhythm and Sound and Basic Channel could, or perhaps even ''should'' be mentioned as very good notable examples of this genre. [[User:Joachim Michaelis|JoaCHIP]] ([[User talk:Joachim Michaelis|talk]]) 09:26, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

==Dub Invasion festival 2011==

Right now there's a fairly significant dub-related event going on on the USA East Coast. [http://www.dubinvasion.net/] Doesn't seem quite notable enough for the article, but it may be -in retrospect. [[User:Wwwhatsup|Wwwhatsup]] ([[User talk:Wwwhatsup|talk]]) 00:02, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

== Section: Modern Echoes of Dub ==

I question the relevance of this section, it reads like promotional material for the album release mentioned and as such falls under the criteria of WP:SPAM. Major re-editing or deletion required.

[[User:30 hertz|30 hertz]] ([[User talk:30 hertz|talk]]) 13:17, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

:I second the above comments. The final paragraph of this section neatly summarises dub's influences on pop; the bulk of the section could be (a) summarised in a single sentence and appended to that para, and (b) moved to the article on the artist [[Sun Araw]]. [[User:Yahya Abdal-Aziz|yoyo]] ([[User talk:Yahya Abdal-Aziz|talk]]) 23:50, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


I also support this....the section mentions Justin Beiber song having a dub feel to it and I checked it on youtube. If anything it's 100% dub step and has not a bit of classic dub sound to it. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.252.182.175|99.252.182.175]] ([[User talk:99.252.182.175|talk]]) 23:59, 16 March 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


== Oh dear ==
== Oh dear ==

Revision as of 00:19, 18 November 2014

Untitled

In the main article "dub" is identified as an abbreviation of "double" which, of course, it is not. Since this is my first visit (wanted to see if this weekend's 10th. anniversary party at Elbo Room was mentioned) I don't know how/where to insert the fact that "dub" is an abbreviation for "dubbing", as in "overdubbing"

Dub poetry

Is dub poetry a big enough topic to have it's own page, or would a discussion fit better here? Zeimusu 14:08, 2004 Jun 28 (UTC)

Behold the a-answer Htaccess

New Zealand

Surprised not to see New Zealand featured in this article. Dub and reggae is huge part of their culture.

Oh dear

This article is terrible masturbatory garbage. congratulations to you all you "contributors" for your hilarious and worthless delineations, you should probably join a cult or something. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.102.92.235 (talk) 04:37, 12 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dub_music&oldid=634300897"