Talk:Hamdi Ulukaya

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Someone keeps writing that he is Kurdish-American. If we are talking about ethnicity, American should be excluded. If we are talking nationality, than it should be Turkish-American and visitors of the page shouldn't be allowed to change it. I think the best form would be Turkish-American businessmen of Kurdish descent, since Kurdish is not a nationality.--173.77.253.53 (talk) 07:00, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

That's right. Referenced web site( about richest people) is not a reliable source.--Kafkasmurat (talk) 10:47, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

"Nationality" has more than one meaning, and from a good Leninist perspective, "Kurd" is indeed a nationality, just as "Turk" is a nationality even for people who are not citizens of a Turkish state (Syrian Turks, German Turks, etc.) However, you are right that "nationality" is usually meant in the sense of "citizenship", and the use of "Kurdistan" rather than "Kurdish" is also troubling and inconsistent. In general this piece has too many references to Kurdish identity for a man who, as far as I know, has never mentioned his "Kurdish identity" at all in any context ever. In fact, in a speech where he was going on and on about his mother, he kept mentioning the Turkish language and Eastern Turkey. Also, he seems like a sleazy sexist capitalist, so Kurds should be glad to not be associated with him. I'm going through and deleting all unsourced references to Kurdish things, having already deleted a really ridiculous etymological thing about the word "çoban" (Kurdish: «şivan», so again, it seems he is advertising a Turkish, rather than Kurdish, identity, and before anyone brings up Zaza, it's «şiwane» in Zaza). The etymology of this word is very interesting, but it has nothing to do with the man's (unsourced and therefore possibly non-existent) Kurdish identity. It certainly has nothing to do with the yogurt.

Nationality

Hamdi Ulukaya may (or may not) have Kurdish ethnicity. He considers himself a Turkish American. Those of you who can read Turkish please read the newspaper interview that I am linking here. Some sentences for the non-Turkish speakers: 1. "The Greeks here (in USA) get angry that a Turk makes better yoghurt." 2. (Referring to colleagues) "Other Turkish businessmen here." 3. (Asked about employing Turks in his business) "I will not hire you only because you're Turkish." Source: ( http://www.kigem.com/cope-attigi-firsat-hayatini-degistirdi.html ) Thank you. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 07:22, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Kurdish ethnicity means that Hamdi Ulukaya is a Kurdish. Stop spamming his page with your ultranationalism-kemalism thoughts.

If you look at other people Wikipedia pages, you will find, American, German, Russian not because of they have the nationality of countries because of their ethnicity. Gr, Feridun Akpinar, wishes a lot of "Pure-thinking". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.50.111.125 (talk) 13:15, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

I added your reply correctly. Look: First of all my or your opinion about nationality is not important for Wikipedia. Wikipedia functions per its own rules. Read WP:OPENPARA carefully and you will see that we do make a difference between nationality and ethnicity and avoid putting the latter in article leads. On the other hand WP is an encyclopedia based on reliable sources. Have a look at the article's sources please. There you will see information about his origins. Also see up in this discussion Mr.Ulukaya's own words about his nationality. I must remind you that if you continue to revert without reason or consensus you may be sanctioned. Thanks. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 14:55, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

• Note to 86.50.111.125 and alternate account 86.50.111.163: You have now received warnings on your Talk page about edit-warring. If you continue to edit war you will be blocked from editing. Wikipedia policies have been explained to you, and Ulukaya's ethnicity is prominently mentioned twice in the article -- once in the intro and once in the first sentence of the body text. This is in accordance with Wikipedia policy. Please desist from your edit wars so that further action against you is not necessary. Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 00:35, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
• I think they decided to open a joint account, an SPA. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 21:01, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

There's a growing consensus against including Turkish citizens of non-Turkish origin in articles like Turkish-Americans. If the definition of being Turkish is merely due to the fact that they just so happened to be citizens of Turkey, then why not add Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians to the Turkish people page? Isn't Abdullah Ocalan a Turkish citizen too? He's definitely more talked about than most of those Turks on the Turkish people infobox anyways. Étienne Dolet (talk) 07:15, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi Etienne. Place of birth and citizenship are facts, not matters of opinion or consensus. Ulukaya is a Turkish native and Turkish citizen who now has American citizenship. These are incontrovertible, easily verifiable facts. Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 07:52, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I do not deny where Hamdi Ulukaya was born, nor do I deny his citizenship. But placing this man under a category of Turkish-American without an ounce of Turkish blood in him is just plain wrong. He's been placed in the infobox of the Turkish-American article just because he has Turkish citizenship. And whether Turkish citizenship merits the qualification of being Turkish is completely WP:OR. For one, this definition has not reached a definitive consensus. Therefore, I think a broader consensus involving the Wiki community is necessary. As of now, not only is the current definition WP:OR, but it also fails to align itself with the definition of what being Turkish means in the Turkish people article. Ultimately, the Turkish people article is the consensus. Anything outside of that is just plain WP:OR. As for my opinion, citizenship is far different than race. This means removing anyone from the infobox whose background is not Turkish (i.e. Daron Acemoglu, Hamdi Ulukaya). What's next? Should we add Gerard Depardieu to Russians in France page too? If citizenship means race, then we should add Abdullah Ocalan to the Turkish people infobox as well. Étienne Dolet (talk) 17:51, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

To repeat, place of birth and citizenship are facts, not WP:OR or matters of opinion or consensus. Ulukaya is a Turkish native and Turkish citizen who now has American citizenship. These are incontrovertible, easily verifiable facts. You are speaking of ethnicity, which is another matter. Softlavender (talk) 19:39, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Again, I am not denying his nationality or his place of birth. My question is simple: how can an ethnic Kurd be added to the Turkish-American infobox? Is it on the basis of his citizenship? If so, why not add Abdullah Ocalan to the Turkish people infobox there as well? Étienne Dolet (talk) 19:43, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes on Ulukaya in the Turkish American infobox. He is a Turkish American: a Turkish native and Turkish citizen who now has American citizenship. This Talk page is not the venue to discuss other articles. Also, when you post on Talk pages in the future, please make sure you properly indent your posts so that they nest properly indented under the post you are replying to -- you need to use one more colon than the post you are replying to. I have been fixing that in your posts on this page; please note that and follow the procedure yourself in the future. Thanks. Softlavender (talk) 20:02, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Stop vandalizing the page. He is Kurdish American, not Turkish.

Going by the logic of some people here, Abdullah Öcalan should be Turkish, and Saladin Arabic. All sources claim he's Kurdish, and so does Ulukaya himself. Sad attempt by Turkish nationalists here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeff350 (talk • contribs) 11:03, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi Jeff350. Place of birth and citizenship are facts, not matters of opinion or consensus. Ulukaya is a Turkish native and Turkish citizen who now has American citizenship. These are incontrovertible, easily verifiable facts. Thank you. Also, please remember to sign your talk page posts by typing four tildes: ~~~~ Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 11:07, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

When asked what if his nationality is Kurdish, Hamdi Ulukaya responded YES. This was four days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O0B1ljy0KA Stop vandalizing the page, thank you. Jeff350 (talk) 11:18, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

No, he was asked, "You are ethnically a Kurd, born in Turkey, is that right?" Kurdish is his ethnicity, Turkish is his citizenship/nationality. The current Wikipedia opening sentence correctly states his nationality, and mentions his ethnicity in the paragraph below that and in the first sentence of the body text of the article. These are Wikipedia policies, and this article must abide by them. Please also remember to indent your talk page posts using colons, so that the conversation nests properly. Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 19:27, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

That's ridicilous. Atleast change it to a 'Turkish citizen with a Kurdish ethnicity' or something along those lines. Better yet; add a 'Ethnicity' section in the infobox. I really don't know why you're so obsessed with calling him Turkish when he himself says he's Kurdish. I've yet to see a Wiki page on a famous person listed with his citizenship as nationality. Jeff350 (talk) 20:27, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

You are mistaken, Jeff. He has always called himself Turkish. Also check the Google results: "hamdi ulukaya" "turkish" gets 17,900 results; "hamdi ulukaya" "kurdish" gets 3,290 results. In any case, Wikipedia policy dictates that the opening paragraph list nationality, not ethnicity. It states that "Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability." In this case, since his notability is for his entrepreneurial success as the creator of and CEO of Chobani Greek Yogurt, his ethnicity does not have bearing on that. His ethnicity is mentioned prominently twice at the very beginning of the article, and that is sufficient and complies with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Softlavender (talk) 20:47, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

If that's the case, then I propose adding Abdullah Ocalan to the Turkish people infobox. After all, he is a Turkish citizen right? Étienne Dolet (talk) 18:42, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

• Discuss it there please. (I imagine people will not compare a convicted terrorist with a successful businessman or professor who only rise the flag of Turkish Americans higher, just like Janet Akyüz. Try adding Gurgen Yanikyan to Armenian Americans.)--Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 19:54, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

But this isn't about his occupation, it's about his notability. There's dozens or so more Kurds and Armenians that can be added to that infobox on the basis of mere citizenship. Why not add them? Étienne Dolet (talk) 20:02, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Common name

We have a strained yoghurt article. Is the name correct? --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 20:05, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

You may take that up on that article's Talk page. Softlavender (talk) 20:07, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

As for this article, Chobani Greek Yogurt yields close to 250,000 results on Google. Chobani strained yogurt yields only 160. That's mean that the word "Greek" should remain on the basis of WP:COMMONNAME. Étienne Dolet (talk) 20:09, 16 October 2014 (UTC)