Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2014 December 29: Difference between revisions

Ultraman_King – To the limited extent anybody other than the requester of this review has offered an opinion, it is to endorse the "redirect" closure. Absent a consensus to overturn it, that outcome therefore remains in force. – Sandstein 14:50, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it.

Ultraman King is a very important character for the Ultraman franchise. He is THE ULTRAMAN , the God of them all. He appears in many Ultraman TV series and movies . Having pages on other ultramen and not Ultraman King is rediculous and is judgement from non fans , not even a tokusatsu fan! Ironically, the original erased Wiki info. on this character is all over the internet (but not on Wiki).

The information on both English and Japanese versions are authentic, they are the same even though they are written by different people (including Japanese, they created the Ultraman franchise) . Anyone who are the fans of Ultraman will tell you the info. on the original page are authentic. Sources?? Well, I can give you the third party sources for every single info. on that page.

"There is no current assertion for future improvement of the article,"

further improvement?? You can be sure there will be new info. regarding the character. Ultraman is a franchise, there will be new TV series , new movies , etc .

Deleting the article is like deleting stand alone pages for Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader for the Star Wars articles. 205.206.217.74 (talk) 17:37, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with the article is that Wikipedia articles aren't supposed to consist entirely of plot summaries from some fictional universe. If you're writing about a fictional character then you need to include something else as well. Take a look at our article on Darth Vader: although there is plot summary there it also has plenty of discussion of the creation of the character and its cultural impact, which is why any attempt to delete the article on these grounds would fail. Articles which are entirely plot summary get deleted or merged/redirected to another page about that fictional universe, as this one was.
To address the problem you need to show that it's possible to write an acceptable article about this character which isn't entirely plot summary, in particular pointing to suitable sources we could use for the non-plot summary parts. That's the "improvement" the AfD was talking about. That there will be future fictional works to write plot summaries for or that the character is prominent in the fictional universe don't help. Hut 8.5 11:27, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There is no plot in the article , at least not in the Japanese version of the Wiki page.Unless there was something substantially changed in the article the last few months . The article I last read contained appearances of King in different episodes. It contained his power , weapons he used , his ability ,etc. The article had been on Wiki for many years. Suddenly , Wiki has a lot of "absurd" rules possibly dictated by some volunteers. No offense , that reminds me of someone is trying to look busy at work. Do we have people just graduated from some college? Whoever erased the Japanese version of this article, does he/she even read Japanese ?? The Japanese version of the article contains even more in depth info. than the English version, with references, now it is all gone , it is a disastrous decision, it will take a long time and many volunteers to submit those info. again.

The article to which King page is directed even has a complaint about it being too long. Come on, several paragraphs?? I read pages with hi-tech/scientific info. much longer than that. Yes, there is a plot, becuase it is a movie , what else the page can talk about with the movie name as the title of the page. My point is not only about the King article, it is the whole atmosphere within the Wiki volunteer group. Nothing wrong with improving the Wiki site, the information site; but lately, they are taking INFORMATION away in the name of some absurd rules. It is ironic that there are many Ultraman sites with King's info. based on (if not copies of ) the original Wiki page, but the source of the info. is erased from Wiki. I also think it is absurd that only one if not a few people decide which articles are to be erased , even they are not experts in or fans of those topics/subjects. These people don't think about the effect of erasing an article ; also, I can't only see a few people even taking part in the so-called discussion before the page was erased. I am only complaining about this for Wiki's benefits. I can easily goto other sites in which more info. are available. You guys are "taking info." away, the "pedia" part of Wikipedia is gone.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.206.217.74 (talk) 21:19, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The article did not contain anything other than an in-universe description of the character's role in various fictional works. That is what WP:NOT#PLOT is trying to prevent. Wikipedia isn't an indiscriminate collection of information, as you will discover from clicking on that link. This rule is not new and has been in place for at least eight years. Articles about films can and should have information beyond in-universe description of plot elements - things like information on the making of the film, reception, cultural impact, etc. Hut 8.5 23:34, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RESPONSE:

"did not contain anything other than an in-universe description of the character's role in various fictional works"

Because whoever thinks that isn't a fan of the Ultraman franchise. Firstly , that is not the case, as I said, it has plenty of description about the character himself (power ability , some background); also whoever thinks that doesn't read Japanese. Secondly, that is what he is , the character was invented for such cases, he doesn't have any TV series / movie on his own, he sppears in other ultramen TV series , specials and movies; he is also an important character in the Ultraman universe, he helps and guilds others , in many ways , he is still mysterious. He is the God of all Ultramen and how can one talk about ultraman without a stand alone page on this character, he IS the ultraman. There are plenty of standalone Ultraman pages on Wiki (Noa , Leo , ....etc ), if they can have stand-alone pages, Ultraman King definitely qualifies for one.

You can't just use one rule for everything, rather robotic. As I said, it is like there are a group of students or recent graduates in the editor roles. Are you guys from some English/journalism department in some universities??

I do not know all the rules and guildlines in Wiki but I come to Wiki for the info. The Japanese version of the page is very imformative (even way beyond the English version) , some are even from someones who are true fans of the franchise. I can say that erasing the Japanese version of the page was a major mistake. Some of the Japanese references are hard to find. You are discouraging Japanese from submitting valuable information. They know best for these tokusatsu shows, they created them.

Even if that is the case (not comforming with all the stupid rules), one can rewrite the articles rather than erasing the pages.

I certainly have no problems with the articles and I do not see many readers who are complaining but only the "Jedi council" is, they make the decision for the majority of the readers. I understand there are rules to keep the place "clean and neat" but as I said, in this case, it is rather robotic. It is a shame that both versions of the page (among others of other topics ) are deleted , Wiki has thrown away a lot of valuable information which is what I and probably the majority care.

As I said , it is ridiculous that many other web sites have the information based on or are copies of the original Wiki pages, but Wiki has erased them. Anyway, I sense there is some politics behind erasing pages for this character and is wasting time here for so call appeal, it doesn't look like they are going to be reloaded and a waste of time to re-create them only to be erased again.

Endorse, the article was pretty much just WP:PLOT, and there doesn't seem to be any error with the closure of the discussion itself. If you want to write an article on this character, I suggest putting together a draft that outlines the real world notability of the character (the Darth Vader article, noted above, is a good example of what's expected), and then bring the draft here for recreation. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 02:28, 1 January 2015 (UTC).[reply]

RESPONSE:

It is impossible to write about the character in the same way as the Vader's article. Ultraman King wasn't written and created like that (The Ultraman franchise is not the Star Wars franchise, the former is a Japanese creation, the latter is a western creation, there is cultural differences). That's why I know you guys are not Ultraman fans and yet you guys determined that the article should be erased. Anyway, as I said, all valuable information is lost (particularly the Japanese version), impossible to rewrite even though I know where all the information comes from, but finding the details of the references is difficult . I have not saved the Japanese version of the article in which many references were included, or I could reproduce the English version from that, but I don't have the time to redo all the works input by others over the years. Although there are many English versions (copied from or quoted from Wiki) out there on the internet , most of them contain no references. This is a great loss of information for Wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.206.217.74 (talk) 14:31, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Japanese version is still around. Have a ball man https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A6%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%9E%E3%83%B3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0 Shii (tock) 19:51, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

RESPONSE :

I searched it twice , it wasn't there , something must have happened since this talk started (someone relisted it perhaps??.

This is part of the old English version I found, it is a copy of the old Wiki version :

You people tell me what's wrong with this article:

This is similar to those articles for Leo, Noa and such. As I said, Ultraman King doesn't have any TV series, he is designed to be a character as the God for all Ultramen, he comes and goes , and assists others. There is a reason for that, he is so powerful that he defeats any Kaijuus and Seijins in a matter of seconds as depicted in Mega Monster Battle: Ultra Galaxy Legend The Movie, so there can't be any TV shows/movies for him, what is the point of a-few-seconds show!?

12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC) ARTICLE STARTS 12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Ultraman King (ウルトラマンキング, Urutoraman Kingu?) is the most powerful Ultra in the Showa Universe and is from the Land of Light . He is the oldest Ultra, ancient even before every other known Ultra. He was born in the Land of Light, and is the second oldest Ultraman on the entire multiverse. In the 2009 film Mega Monster Battle: Ultra Galaxy Legend The Movie, he is considered to be, and respected as, the "God" or Elder of all Ultra heroes. Despite the name, he is not the king of the Land of Light. He is supposedly all powerful and undefeatable, but lives on his own on the Planet King. From his own planet called King, he observes the evolution of the Ultra Brothers. He has a beard and crown. Possessing almighty power, Ultraman King is the most powerful of all the Ultraman race. He is said to have similar origins as Ultraman Noa. Despite being called Ultraman King, he confirmed to Ultraman Hikari he has many names, and that Ultraman King is not his real name, but he merely adopted it for his love to the human race.

History

A legendary Ultraman from the Land of Light, King existed even before the Plasma Spark and was part of its construction team and is one of the Ultra Elders. He is seen as a god-like figure to the people of Nebula M78, Planet Leo in L-77 and Planet U40. Ultraman Leo

After Ultraman Taro's time on Earth, King began to watch one of the last survivors of Nebula L77, Ultraman Leo, as he defeated monsters with little beyond his fighting skills. During Leo's fight with Alien Pressure, King came to Earth himself and assisted Leo, defeating Pressure and giving Leo his Mant as a weapon that would help him out in later battles. King returned to Earth months later to reveal Alien Babalou, who was disguised himself as Leo's brother Astra to steal the Ultra Key, which was later safely returned, and revived Leo after being killed by Alien Bunyo. King, while not directly interfering with the Ultra Brothers since, still contributed much to the forces of good. Before Leo encountered him, no Ultraman had ever seen him in the flesh. He is extremely powerful in the appearances he has made, showing he is able to bring Ultraman Leo back to life after he'd been sawed to pieces by Commander Black without any effort. His age was reviewed to be 300,000 years in the 2003 movie New Century Ultraman Legend 2003: King's Jubilee (新世紀2003ウルトラマン伝説 THE KING'S JUBILEE Shinseiki Urutoraman Densetsu: THE KING'S JUBILEE?), but the chronological order of this work is unclear.

Ultraman Hikari Saga

Ultraman Hikari searched for power to save Arb, and heard it would be granted to him by a powerful being, who was revealed to be Ultraman King. King gave him the Knight Brace, because his heart was pure. He later warned Hikari not to fight on Arb because of his anger, but Hikari disobeyed, and hence gained the Hunter Knight Tsurgi Armor.

Ultraman Mebius Gaiden: Armored Darkness

Ultraman King appeared in this special to motivate the former crew of GUYS, Ryu Aihara not to give up hope when they are battling Armored Darkness.

Mega Monster Battle: Ultra Galaxy Legend The Movie

Ultraman King appeared in this special to motivate the former crew of GUYS, Ryu Aihara not to give up hope when they are battling Armored Darkness.

Mega Monster Battle: Ultra Galaxy Legend The Movie

In Mega Monster Battle: Ultra Galaxy Legend The Movie its revealed that he single-handedly defeated Ultraman Belial and formed the Land of Light's moon around him to imprison him in a matters of second . He is later seen watching over Ultraman Zero’s training with Ultraman Leo. It was also Ultraman King who explained to Zero the truth of his "exile" and that his father is Ultraseven. When Seven’s eye slugger was sent as an S.O.S., Ultraman King sent Zero and the Leo Brothers to the battle. Later, after Belial is defeated by Zero, he gives a speech to all of the assembled Ultras in the Land of Light. Ultraman Ginga

Almost all the Ultras were converted into Spark Dolls at the conclusion of the Dark Spark War, but Ultraman King was the sole exception. He is never shown being turned into a Spark Doll, but is also never shown involved in fighting the war. Thus, it is possible that he escaped the fate of his kind, and is somewhere in deep space, possibly on Planet King.

Profile

King Data

   Height: 58 m
   Weight: 56,000 t
   Age: Over 300,000 years
   Flight Speed: Mach 20
   Running Speed: Mach 3 
   Jump Distance: 500 meters
   Brute Strength: 100,000 tons

Physical Attributes

Head Sphere: King's crown like crest, it grants him omniscience to the universes' events. King's Red Eyes: King's Red eyes have sight around ten thousand times better than those of normal Ultras. They instantly see through disguises. Beard: Facial hair begins to grow on Ultras of at least 40,000 years of age. Color Timer: King appears to have two red jewels, the top one sometimes appears to glow but it is unknown if either or both are Color Timers since King does not come from the Land of Light. Great Protector: Able to emit energy, the shoulder armor on King. Ultra Large Medal: The belt on King's waist that bears his name.

Weapons

   King Hammer: Ultraman King can shrink or grow opponents by shaking his hammer in a whacking fashion. His hammer can also be used as a physical weapon.
   Ultraman Port: Ultraman King's cape can conjure up objects and stop/fizzle out incoming projectile attacks with the item. This item was given to Leo, but was later returned to him.

Techniques

King Flasher: Ultraman King can fire a bolt of energy, capable of making explosions as large as he is, from his hands. Baptism Ray: King can emit tiny, red energy arrows from the red orbs on his chest. This was used to reveal Alien Babalou's true form. King Spark: This technique called down Light, it was used to snap the Ultra Key in half and stop Alien Babalou. Revival Beam: Ultraman King can revive dead beings with this ray. Teleportation: Ultraman King can teleport any place he wishes by sheer will Natural Disaster Ability: Ultraman King can cause Lightning and Blizzards with the snap of his fingers. Telekinesis: He can defeat his enemies without touching them. He just uses telekinesis. This what he used to imprison Belial, creating the Space Prison out of rubble from all over the Land of Light Omnipotence: It is said in the Ultraman Hikari Saga that King is said to be able to do the impossible, meaning he is seen as having omnipotence. King Shot: A beam only seen in games, the hand position is the same as the Specium Ray but it is stronger.It is also used to seal the Giga Battlenizer in the Valley of Fire.

12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC) ARTICLE ENDS 12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)12:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

With the Japanese version, I can help to rewrite the Wiki for Ultraman King, in whatever format , layout rules you people are obssessed about. My point is that , it is not just for the Wiki for this character, it is the rules for all articles: Don't throw away info. because they don't comply to the format, layout rules; with info. , one can format the info. anyway you want, but if there is no info. , what is the point for layout / format. Information is the most valuable , it should be the priority for any information site which Wikipedia is.

The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.

Revision as of 13:17, 19 January 2015

29 December 2014