Template talk:GeoTemplate/Archive 9

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Redesign

Many users have complained of the usability of this template, and that it contains too much distracting cruft. Since there were very few comments to the redesign section above, I decided to be bold and put up one of the proposed designs. It can later be changed to use icons for the service types if people are ok with it.

• Pro: The placement of the link in the table shows the available map types in a service together with the label
• Pro: Information about the services is displayed in an organised way
• Pro: Users don't have to read a long description to know what to expect behind the link
• Con: Service features that require something to be done in its user interface are not mentioned
• Open: Services are not described - are there other details that should be mentioned of all services in an organised way, some detail that applies for all the contents of the service and won't change all the time?
• Open: If we add icons on top of the labels later, would it make sense to have grayed out icons for services that can't be linked to directly, but have one of the common features?
• Open: A good form needs to be found to link to the indirect services and indicate what they contain, without making it too similar with the direct links or too verbose to take all the attention
• Open: I couldn't think of a decent way to include the odd MSN links Zyxw found

Comments? --Para (talk) 22:53, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm actually in favor of forking off the parts that are not very useful. The page is still big at 105 K (final rendering), and is still a problem for people with slow connection or those with ADHD that want their Google map now. I suggest that we enable the altpage= parameter and break the page into, markup, indirect, and a new page sorted by base server (ex. All Google maps mashups). On the indirect links we may want to consider just moving them to something like List of web mapping services as they do not provide what the user is looking for. Finally an idea that's been going through my head for a while is that we could transclude the contents of the this page else where (say /rendered) and have geohack use that page. This would allow us to use <noinclude> tags in the page. —Dispenser (talk) 06:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I like the new design. Good work, it seems to reduce the space used.

As for the indirect links, we could put them in comments, this way, when editing, it's visible why they are not included. -- User:Docu

Can you rephrase "the contents of the this page else where"? -- SEWilco (talk) 16:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I ment that /render would transclude Template:GeoTemplate. Which has the advantage that we could included <noinlcuded> tags on GeoTemplate and they would not show up on GeoHack. —Dispenser (talk) 17:16, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

So there's just an extra "the" rather than something being missing in the sentence. OK. -- SEWilco (talk) 19:01, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm indifferent on these further changes, but I feel I should comment on this, so here goes. Ok, so the purpose of this template is to help people find good services to give further information in addition to the articles, everyone agrees on that. Even services without direct linking can have good data, though it's much harder to find from there. Then on the other hand, there's the usability wish on our side to keep the list compact. That's a visual requirement, as enabling compression again (it was disabled when Magnus separated his tool framework from GeoHack) would decrease the transfer by about 85%, so the byte size isn't a problem. The visual length of the page however may be, even when the most popular and most useful links are at the top, as based on the WP:GEO and WP:EL discussions some people can feel threatened by the long scrollbar and without even looking at the content think that the information they're after would be hard to find, or others who are attracted to the scrollbar and feel the need to glimpse through the entire page before starting to look for what they're after. I don't know if these people are in a minority or not. If people aren't all comfortable with the move from one mouse click to two, then a change to three clicks would probably be entirely unacceptable. If the page however is split up, it'd be important to set the rules on services that can be on the main list and which mashups are simple enough to be thrown somewhere else, and also remember that people shouldn't be made to fetch little sections from the server with just a couple of services. We could just use Javascript to show and hide some services if the screen space is really that essential. The idea of hiding less good services or other messages in HTML comments might not be too good, because people won't see that there is a service candidate which could be added if someone found out how to use it or contacted the authors, and also people usually edit sections from the closest edit link, so messages at the top of the general region section or at the top of the template don't do much good. Some noinclude web might work if the main template has good edit links to it.

Finally a wish: please someone save the html produced by GeoHack on your computer and edit it until the sections float side by side like this. That'd be quite a time saver with the abominable scrollbar. --Para (talk) 01:22, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

This version does it, somewhat. -- User:Docu

Well that was easy, thanks! I edited all the sections a bit so that the global and local sections look alike when they're side by side, which included moving the text before some service tables to after them. Is a vertical separator needed between them for those with less wide screens? --Para (talk) 22:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

In case one country-specific section is used, the remaining ones needn't be transcluded, or not? -- User:Docu

I've had the idea that when a location is near the border of two regions, services from other sections may be useful too, but I don't know if anyone would actually think of trying that. Maybe we could make GeoHack only return the global and local sections by default without markup sections and all, and then add a parameter to GeoHack to return all the sections only when requested, and add such a link to the GeoTemplate for those who would like markup or services from other regions? --Para (talk) 22:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

A call without a region code could list all sections. On the other hand, now that it was redesigned and the page is shorter, we might as well keep the other sections. -- User:Docu

Add ANTIPODES button

If you were smart you would add a button to bring the user to his antipodes. Jidanni (talk) 22:42, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Empty local sections

Region	Code	Count
Netherlands	NL	2500
Slovakia	SK	2400
Hungary	HU	2000
Philippines	PH	1400
Greece	GR	1000
Belgium	BE	1000
Romania	RO	900
Ireland	IE	900
Colombia	CO	800
Antarctica	AQ	800
Argentina	AR	800
Mexico	MX	800
New Zealand	NZ	700
Turkey	TR	700
Ukraine	UA	700
South Africa	ZA	600
Bangladesh	BD	600
Serbia	CS	500
Pakistan	PK	500

In a discussion at Wikipedia talk:External links#Links to map services there was a comment that "Global systems" is not obvious enough to inform the user that the listed services are expected to work with all locations in the world. Additionally the comment suggested that when a local section isn't found automatically, the user will try to look it up themselves. In most cases the cause for not having a local section at the top is that there is no local section for the region, and if they don't understand what "global" means, the user will end up frustrated. My initial fix for this was to move the table of contents below the "introduction" section with the most appropriate links, so that the toc won't be the first thing people see and try to interact with. What else could be done to help the users with this problem? The best solution would be to have GeoHack fill the local section with an appropriate message, but so far it doesn't have any internationalisation support other than the use of different GeoTemplates, so implementing that might be difficult and not in line with the idea of the system. Another solution could be to make sure that most regions have a local section, even if they are empty or filled with a message from the template. I did an automatic lookup of all the coordinates from Wikipedia-World, and the table on the right shows regions missing from the list. Should they be added as empty sections? It would still leave out regions with less coordinates than in the ones listed. --Para (talk) 20:50, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

coordinate needing fixing

I'm not familiar enough with the GeoTemplate's code to know where to put the needed change, but Tuber Hill is listed as a degree too far north; it should be 50-23, not 51-23. Oh, actually, it's 50-54, 123-44 as I just checked it on BC gov's LRDWC; changed it on Tuber Hill's wikipage, can't see through the maze of code here, unless it's somehow auto-generated which is why I can't find the figures to substitute. That map resource you guys want might to regularly list on this page; see http://www.maps.gov.bc.ca - "Land and Data Resources Warehouse Catalogue" or by direct link here. Skookum1 (talk) 16:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Why don't you just edit the placemark yourself?? This has nothing to do with the GeoTemplate but with the entered coordinates, right? {{coor d|50.543129|N|-123.393839|W|type:mountain_region:CA}} = {{coor d|50.543129|N|-123.393839|W|type:mountain_region:CA}} Cush (talk) 10:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Deletion attempt

Someone tried to delete this template because it is not in use. Perhaps there should be a noinclude header which mentions how this template is used. -- SEWilco (talk) 05:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Noinclude only works with MediaWiki transclusion, which is available only if it's done on Wikipedia. This template page however is read directly by GeoHack, which sees exactly the same that all editors of the page see. There was some discussion above on maybe splitting the template in parts and then transcluding all of them on a page for GeoHack to download, so that noinclude bits could be used for all sorts of messages to editors, but maybe such a structure would be too complicated. Anyway, the page is used like a template but it doesn't work like MediaWiki templates normally do, so maybe it shouldn't be in the Template namespace, and should be moved alongside with Wikipedia:Book sources? --Para (talk) 12:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Wikipedia:Map sources maybe? That already redirects here. -- SEWilco (talk) 16:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Simple question

As I work on my UKgrid to WGS84 tool, I am visiting a lot of pages, and finding that the Coords are inaccurate. It could be a quick clean up job if I knew how to do it. Can someone link me to a policy that says where/what/how we should pinpoint as the coords of a village. Look at the test coordinate above for London- the point used is the corner of Nelsons Column in Trafalgar Square. 51.51929839;-0.12399326 This is in Charing Cross, not London, or even Westminster. This is about 2.5km away from Mansion House, 51.5125|-0.0938 or 3 from Monument. Then the religiously inclined may define London by it cathedral 51.5136|-0.1005, and the historians by the tower 51.5080|-0.0761 (additional thought- the main gate or the centre of the keep?). As we are working to 7m accuracy now, I think this is an issue that needs to be addressed- could someone tell me where the discussion is taking place? ClemRutter (talk) 15:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

You should be posting this over at WP:WikiProject Geographical coordinates. — Dispenser 18:28, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I have. Discussion seems limited to why some coords may be wrong- and the best definition I have been given is- pinpoint the centre of the earliest known settlement- so in the case of London, the coordinate above is wrong- we should have pinpointed the centre of the Roman Forum in Londinium. (Corner of Lombard Street/Gracechurch Street)51.5119;-0.0852. Hail Caesar! ClemRutter (talk) 20:24, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Map of all coordinates in the article

Pardon, but I no longer find the "Map of all coordinates in the article" link. Where is/should be it? --151.50.22.112 (talk) 17:46, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I moved it to the top next to the article title (labeled as All coordinates) as it looked out of place floating squized to the size of the tables. — Dispenser 18:28, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

New Mapping Service: PlanetEye.com

PlanetEye.com, a new mapping service with photos and other interesting data points has become available. It is capable of selecting the top ranked photos on any given area of the world map, without cluttering the display if the number of photos available is too large. Because of its nature I think it should go under the section of sites with wiki elements. Below is the suggested code to be used:

*[http://www.planeteye.com/Map.aspx#lat={latdegdec}&lng={londegdec}&z={osmzoom}&mediaLens=media Find photos in this location] on PlanetEye [http://www.planeteye.com/].

Let me know if you have any questions about the service. Jugonzal (talk) 18:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Why did you not drop it in? Heptazane (talk) 17:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Oops. I hesitated because it says that the page is semi-protected, but I just made the changes and seem to work fine. Thanks. Jugonzal (talk) 20:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

MapQuest Appears to be Broken

I tried it on a couple of pages, and it never comes up with the map. I'm guessing they changed their URL parameters, but not going to investigate. Heptazane (talk) 17:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Still works with another hostname. Fixed. --Para (talk) 23:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Recommend removing Topozone.com

Trails.com purchased Topozone.com, and Topozone.com is now subscription-only. We'll need another site that offers free Topographic maps. Bms4880 (talk) 20:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

TerraServer-USA provides USGS satellite imagery and topographic maps. This template previously only contained a link for the satellite imagery, but I updated it to include a link to the topographic maps. The terraserver-usa.com maps are also available via Acme Mapper, which also has a "topo" link on this template. -- Zyxw (talk) 17:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

The Topozone link still displays a map, but zooming in or out changes the URL to trails.com and adds a large watermark (consisting of the text "Remove This Watermark. Subscribe Today!" and the Trails.com logo). Additionally, only the small size (420 x 300 pixel) maps are available to non-subscribers. I just renamed the U.S. and Canada links from "Topozone" to "Trails.com" (the URLs remain unchanged at this time). However, the Canada link should probably be deleted, since it only has maps for a small area of Canada north of the U.S. border which is displayed on the USGS topographic maps. -- Zyxw (talk) 19:05, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

After Topozone went subscription-only, I immediately started building TopoQuest as a free replacement. Old Topozone map links can be replaced by substituting topoquest.com in place of topozone.com in the URL. I'll add an additional section on this discussion page with the URL linking format so it can be included in the map template. Ryanniemi (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 18:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I've added the TopoQuest link format to the GeoTemplate. I'll leave it up to others to decide whether the Trails.com link (which has evolved to SPAM if you try to do anything beyond look at the initial map) is now obsoleted by the equivalent TopoQuest functionality. Ryanniemi (talk) 00:53, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't see the point in leaving the Trails.com link up. Wikipedia users will assume we're not going to direct them to spam-filled or registration-only sites. Bms4880 (talk) 13:57, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Live Search Maps

It would appear, at least for users with UK IP addresses, this now redirects to Multimap, without the Point being passed through. In return, Multimap now has aerial photography and oblique views world wide. -- Ratarsed (talk) 18:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Seems they've turned the redirect off, so Live Search Maps work again... -- Ratarsed (talk) 19:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

South Eastern Hokkaido inaccuracy with Geographical Survey Institute

Hi there. The GeoHack seems to have trouble with coordinates when looking at the south eastern corner of Hokkaido Japan and using the link to the Geographical Survey Institute. For an example see Mount Apoi or Mount Tengu (Samani). Clicking on the Topo link for Mount Apoi puts you at 43°2'5"N 143°13'3"E instead of 42°6′28″N 143°1′32″E. A discrepancy of 4 minutes north and 12 minutes eastwards. Can someone help? imars (talk) 15:31, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

42°6′28″N 143°1′32″E is converted to b=42628&l=143132 for the Geographical Survey Institute link. As you found, that site requires a zero before single-digit minutes: b=420628&l=1430132. Placing leading zeros in the {{coord}} template (42°06′28″N 143°01′32″E) does not help since GeoHack trims the leading zeros from the {latminint} parameter. I'm not aware of a way to include the required leading zeros. Perhaps someone who reads Japanese can check whether the Geographical Survey Institute will accept decimal degrees (42.10778, 143.02556). -- Zyxw (talk) 05:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Sera Monastery inaccurate coordinates

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I'll try it. The article on the Sera Monastery states that it's at 35° 56′ 53″ N, 91° 8′ 0″ E, clearly not in Tibet. According to detailed aerial images, the correct coordinates are 29° 41' 53" N, 91° 8' 0" E. Could somebody please fix this error? I don't really feel like registering just to change it. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.112.172.250 (talk) 22:08, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

The place to post this would have been Talk:Sera Monastery, since it only required an edit to the article. However, the coordinates you supplied are located within Sera Monastery so I have corrected them in the article. -- Zyxw (talk) 04:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

{title} in Google links

I was thinking of adding {title} to the Google Maps links (see [1] for an example). Is there any reason not to do so? --- RockMFR 20:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Nvm. I see that it breaks on articles with parentheses. --- RockMFR 21:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Aerial vs Satellite

Shouldn't the distinction be drawn between Aerial and Satellite images? --Voidvector (talk) 19:26, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I could see that this would be difficult, as a lot of the mapping sites that have aerial photography (i.e. shot from an aeroplane) use satellite imagery for wider zooms; making them a combination of both, dependant on zoom level. -- Ratarsed (talk) 18:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Title vs Pagename

If in a link a title is given (via name parameter) {{coor title d|33.968915|N|51.404738|E|name=Sialk}} then no pagename parameter should be rendered into the resulting url. http://toolserver.org/~magnus/geo/geohack.php?pagename=Tappeh_Sialk&params=33.968915_N_51.404738_E_{{{5}}}. Especially not with ugly underscores. Cush (talk) 04:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

{{coor title d}} doesn't allow the name to be specified yet, as the coordinates are meant to be for the topic of the article. The article "Tappeh_Sialk" should probably be renamed as it starts with "Sialk is a large ancient archeological site ..". If in several coordinates are given in the articles, it can be specified what they are about (use {{coor d}} for each. -- User:Docu

Geotagging in HTML head

Could it be possible to make this template place geotags in the HTML_element#Head_elements HTML head element of the resulting page? So e.g. http://toolserver.org/~magnus/geo/geohack.php?pagename=Ei%C3%B0i&params=62_18_47_N_7_5_47_W_ could be found in pages like http://geourl.org/near?p=http://xn--eii-4ma.com/ ? Or - better yet- place them in the page that calls the template, in this case Eiði ? (Maybe I'm on the wrong talk page, the template in the Eiði page is called 'coor'.) Abu ari (talk) 09:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Eiði would probably be the better page, but this would need to be requested on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ (if it hasn't been done yet).

BTW Template:GeoTemplate#Markup includes corresponding tags, e.g. [2]. -- User:Docu

Old GB maps

Maps on Template:GBoldmap could be merged into Template:GeoTemplate#Great_Britain. -- User:Docu

By all means add these maps to the GeoTemplate. However, {{GBoldmap}} has greater functionality over the GeoTemplate. It's designed specifically to show historical features that are not shown on modern day maps, each use is supposed to be customised by the Wikipedia editor to provide only valid links and omit maps where the feature isn't shown. Designed to pinpoint buildings, it's intended to be more accurate than the GeoTemplate as coordinate conversion is required to be accurately performed by the Wikipedia editor instead of inaccurately by the software (which, unless it's been fixed recently without my knowledge, introduces a 100 m error (or so) converting between lat/longs and GB grid refs). --Dr Greg (talk) 12:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

India links are screwed up

The Wikimapia and Google Maps links on the right side of [3] do not have the correct coordinates. --NE2 18:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. Someone had duplicated a few global services and pre-filled the links. It's happened a few times that people try to fix an article's coordinates by editing a section here. Should a comment visible in the editing window only be added that they need to go edit the article instead? --Para (talk) 19:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

TopoQuest topographic map format

As in the Topozone discussion above, after Topozone (trails.com) became subscription-only, I immediately built a free replacement to replicate all the features lost. It appears from the above discussion and other discussions elsewhere that people are seeking a replacement to the trails.com link on the GeoTemplate template, which currently solicits subscriptions to trails.com when you try to do anything beyond view the initial map. TopoQuest is a free site with no ads. I propose adding TopoQuest as a topo map link in the United States section. 90% of the USGS 1:24K series topographic maps covering the US are currently online with the last 10% processing now. Processing of Canada topographic map data has started and will be viewable soon as well.

Suggested link format for the template: *[http://www.topoquest.com/map.php?lat={latdegdec}&lon={londegdec}&datum=nad83&zoom=4 Topo]

Thoughts or comments? Additionally, with TopoQuest providing equivalent functionality to the initial trails.com link (before you try to browse around or zoom, which becomes a trails.com advertisement), any thoughts whether to just replace the trails.com link itself? The trails.com link has pretty much evolved into SPAM with just a small margin of utility for non trails.com subscribers. Ryanniemi (talk) 19:21, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I've added the link format to the GeoTemplate. I'll leave it up to others to decide whether the Trails.com link (which has evolved to SPAM if you try to do anything beyond look at the initial map) is now obsoleted by the equivalent TopoQuest functionality. Ryanniemi (talk) 00:52, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Co-ordinate source - reference citing?

Is it possible to amend the page so that a citation for the geo-coordinate source is listed?

I.E The coordinates may be fact's , but it would be nice to say source= Google Maps, Yahoo , Live Search as well as providing the links :) Sfan00 IMG (talk) 15:48, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

map site's API

I know of a number of Chinese map sites that don't expose Long and Lat via HTTP GET; however, they do expose it through their API. So it would be possible to create a wikipedia hosted link to access them if we choose, what is our stance on that? --Voidvector (talk) 22:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Old Dee Bridge, Chester, UK

Can someone pls change the co-ordinates for viewing this bridge? Currently the map is about 120m SSE out in a sports field. 53° 11′ 6.92″ N 2° 53′ 12.37″ W

The precise co-ordinates (as checked by Google Earth) for the centre of the bridge are:

53°11'8.09"N 2°53'19.38"W —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.67.144 (talk) 09:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I've just changed this, but please don't feel you need to ask for this to be done, as you can make the changes yourself to the article in question. -- Ratarsed (talk) 18:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Broken links

Links to Yahoo Maps and Live Search Maps no longer works. They should probably be removed. --79.2.88.42 (talk) 16:23, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

They both work for me (I tested using links from the Ravenswood, Ipswich article, if that makes any difference. -- Ratarsed (talk) 17:57, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Region:XY

Is it necessary to specify a region code for coordinates? It appears that mapsources sometimes adds it automatically. In which cases does it do that? -- User:Docu

It's automatic for the ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 code when the coordinates are inside a polygon defined in Administrative Boundaries - First Level (ESRI). More detailed manually entered region information may be useful for some other purposes. --Para (talk) 10:08, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your quick response. Is this recent? Looks like in most cases, it's not necessary. -- User:Docu

The functionality has been there since last October, together with GeoTemplate section coding [4]. Since then there have been only slight changes to the data, related to better conversion from its original format. A manual region code may be needed near region borders, and coordinates near coasts don't always return anything, so giving any general rule on the use of the parameter would be difficult. If we're only interested of its use together with GeoHack, then maybe "add a region code when you don't see it on the geohack page"? --Para (talk) 12:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

But what if I do not want to use country codes, but name the region I intend to specify? Cush (talk) 14:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

The format is defined at WP:GEO#region:R, it's not meant to name the region. With {{coor dms}}<nowiki>, you may add a "|name=''Region''" to the parameters. -- User:Docu ::::::?? But ''name'' is already reserved for the title. So what if I want to specify a region that is not a country, which btw is the standard case? What if I want to use "Mesopotamia", or "Sahara" as a region? [[User:Cush|Cush]] ([[User talk:Cush|talk]]) 21:25, 6 July 2008 (UTC) :::::::Which use do you intend to make of this? -- User:Docu ==mytopo.com== From what I see you can get USGS topo maps at http://mytopo.com and the individual map URL is different from topozone only by the domain name. [[User:Americasroof|Americasroof]] ([[User talk:Americasroof|talk]]) 16:09, 8 July 2008 (UTC) :Playing with it a little further, you can drag the topomaps like google! It also includes Canada. The maps are buried in the site at http://www.mytopo.com/maps.cfm [[User:Americasroof|Americasroof]] ([[User talk:Americasroof|talk]]) 16:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC) ==Sechelt v. Kamloops== The coordinates provided for [[Sechelt, British Columbia]] actually take one to the coordinates for [[Kamloops, British Columbia]], some 500 km northeast. [[User:Fishhead64|fishhead64]] ([[User talk:Fishhead64|talk]]) 03:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC) ==New United States service: NWS weather forecasts== For locations within the US, the national weather service can provide forecast information by lat/lon. The basic URL format is <code><nowiki>http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?textField1={latdegdec}&textField2={londegdec}

In the format of the current U.S.-only services table, this would be:

Service	Map	Satellite	Hybrid	Other
National Weather Service				Weather

KLuwak 23:29, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}} Would someone with write access consider adding the NWS feature?

KLuwak 17:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

 Done. Andy Mabbett (aka Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy Mabbett; Andy Mabbett's contributions 23:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

geohack.php and Fastcgi Protocol Error

Some (recent) ToolServer change is resulting in:

"Fastcgi Protocol Error This server has encountered an internal error which prevents it from fulfilling your request. The most likely cause is a misconfiguration. Please ask the administrator to look for messages in the server's error log."

for some URLs generated by Wikipedia Coor(d) templates. Specifically, it appears when a "region:" coordinates' parameter is omitted. If a "region:" parameter is supplied, even if it is "empty", then the error does not seem to appear? LeheckaG (talk) 08:40, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

What happened to Geonames?

This was one of the links I used most. Sad to see it disappeared :-( --Zeman (talk) 17:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

[5].—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:01, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Apparently someone was/is on a "campaign" to have GeoNames removed?

It had been removed from the WP:GEO page without any discussion, to I started the following discussion:

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates#Visualization of Wikipedia articles with Google Maps

and reverted the WP:GEO page change

but I did not realize that GeoNames was also removed from the GeoTemplate - also without prior discussion/consensus:

• 2008-08-03T09:45:59 Docu (Talk | contribs) m (53,170 bytes) (+) (undo)
• 2008-07-28T16:00:04 Sfan00 IMG (Talk | contribs) (52,699 bytes) (Remove Geonames ambiguous (C) (see - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Geonames))

Personally, I see some basis for the "complaint/issue" which can easily be resolved by documentation/guidance rather than "removal".

I restored GeoNames and "Fourmilab" (the later may have "accidentally" been removed when they removed GeoNames,

pending consensus either here or on the WP:GEO discussion cited above.

LeheckaG (talk) 19:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

editsemiprotected

{{editsemiprotected}} the map coordinates for the library and birthplace are wrong. I don't know how to get the correct gps coordinates but this link (in satellite mode) will zoom in on the building.

http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&q=33.889167,-117.775833&ie=UTF8&ll=33.889406,-117.818461&spn=0.00208,0.004828&z=18

by 190.10.0.69 (Talk) at 2008-08-07T22:43:03.

Response

You posted an editsemiprotected template on the GeoTemplate's talk page instead of on the intended article's talk page, I commented out your editsemiprotected template since it is intended for a different page's talk page.

Apparently the map coordinates you supplied are for Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum ? Based on your map link, an appropriate coordinate template would be either: the q= you supplied:

• {{Coord|33|53|21|N|117|46|33|W|region:US-CA_type:landmark|name=Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum}}

or the ll= you supplied:

• {{Coord|33|53|22|N|117|49|6|W|region:US-CA_type:landmark|name=Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum}}

Repost your editsemiprotected request template on the appropriate article's talk page (not here) along with the appropriate coordinates like those above. LeheckaG (talk) 02:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

The Richard Nixon Birthplace 33°53'21"N,117°46'33"W coordinates are apparently too far East, probably should have been 33°53'21"N,117°49'33"W instead (i.e. type - "46" versus "49") ? LeheckaG (talk) 02:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I updated the above (2) articles; for those who are interested: I updated {{Infobox nrhp2}} and {{Infobox nrhp2/doc}} so that the template documentation "ALL" parameters blank agrees with the source code and indicates defaults, and I added coord_parameters= and coord_display= parameters so that Infobox nrhp2 can specify optional region:US_type:landmark parameters as well as control the {{Coord}} display= behavior. LeheckaG (talk) 12:25, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, i can verify that the Richard Nixon Birthplace coords of +33° 53' 22.00", -117° 49' 5.00", (which convert to 33.889444,-117.818056 in decimal format) in its article are exactly correct, as the Google satellite view zooms in precisely on the roof of the birthplace cottage on the presidential center/birthplace property, which I am familiar with.

On the other hand, the coordinates given in the National Register Information System (NRIS) system are:

  | lat_degrees = 33
  | lat_minutes = 53
  | lat_seconds = 21
  | lat_direction = N
  | long_degrees = 117
  | long_minutes = 46
  | long_seconds = 33
  | long_direction = W

which do appear to be off a bit, as is common in NRIS coordinates collected in a pre-GPS era. doncram (talk) 15:19, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I guess 3 miles (4.8 km) was "close enough for government work"? Either that or they (used to) have the ICBM concern/mentality and did not want provide published pinpoints? LeheckaG (talk) 15:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Or there was a 3km long driveway, or they used the coordinates of the corner of some grid map. Or there were reasons similar to the present need to avoid giving coordinates of anthropological sites. The Library certainly makes the place easier to find now. -- SEWilco (talk) 04:15, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Localized NSEW

Is there a way to get localized equivalents to {latNS} and {lonEW}? It would be nice to display the coordinates at the top of the page using the letters for North/South/East/West in the local languange. E.g. {latEWlocalized|O|W} would insert O or W instead of E or W. --C960657 (talk) 11:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Here is a patch that adds the requested feature. Just replace the last line of map_sources::build_output() in mapsource.php with the following:

       // Allow localized versions of NSEW, e.g. {lonEW|O|W}
       preg_match_all('/{(latNS|lonEW)\|([^|}]*)\|([^|}]*)}/u', $bstext, $tags, PREG_SET_ORDER);
       foreach ($tags as $tag) {
           if (!in_array($tag[0], $search)) {
               $search[] = $tag[0];
               if ($tag[1] == 'latNS') {
                   $replace[] = $lat['NS'] == 'N' ? $tag[2] : $tag[3];
               } elseif ($tag[1] == 'lonEW') {
                   $replace[] = $lon['EW'] == 'E' ? $tag[2] : $tag[3];
               }
           }
       }

       // Allow localized decimal point and thousand separated, e.g {londegdec|,} or {scale|,�|.}
       preg_match_all('/({\w*(?:dec|int|abs|scale))\|([^|}*])(\|[^|}]*)?}/', $bstext, $tags, PREG_SET_ORDER);
       foreach ($tags as $tag) {
           $i = array_search($tag[1] . '}', $search);
           if ($i !== false) {
               $search[]  = $tag[0];
               $decimals = strlen(substr(strrchr($replace[$i], '.'), 1));
               $replace[] = number_format($replace[$i], $decimals, $tag[2], isset($tag[3]) ? substr($tag[3], 1) : );
           }
       }

       return str_replace( $search, array_map('htmlspecialchars', $replace), $bstext );

--C960657 (talk) 18:36, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

seldom seen roadhouse

{{editsemiprotected}} Geographic co-ordinates have been "rounded" to nearest degree. I would like to put in the accurate co-ordinates. Wombatburrow (talk) 06:36, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

seldom seen roadhouse - response

If you identify which "seldom seen roadhouse" i.e. which Wiki article, the corresponding coordinates can probably be updated. In general, Wiki allows coordinates to be specified in Degrees (about 60 Nautical Miles), Minutes (1 Nautical Mile), and Seconds (1/60 th. of a Nautical Mile). A Nautical Mile is approximately 6,076.1 feet (1,852.0 m) so for most "map" uses Seconds are "close enough" (about 100 feet (30 m)) - similar to GPS "quick fix" (non-differential, non-L2 military/surveying) accuracies. If one is trying to document a "surveying monument" (or a GeoCache) then accuracies of 1/100th. (0.01) of Second might be appropriate. LeheckaG (talk) 07:22, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Presuming you are referring to Seldom Seen Roadhouse 37°7′S 148°15′E? If you describe where it is on either a satellite image, road map, or terrain map, then I can Geocode it if you do not already have more accurate coordinates (i.e. what should the Latitude and Longitude seconds be?)

Google Maps satellite imagery can zoom in to an about 1 inch (2.5 cm) = 2,000 feet (610 m) scale, showing a hilly or mountainous area with apparently the Gelantipy road going primarily North-South, and Seldom Seen Road going off to the West. Where is it relative to the intersection of either those (2) or another feature (river, road, ...) intersection? LeheckaG (talk) 18:51, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Venice-Iraq editsemiprotected

The coordinates of this page do not lead to Venice, but to the site of a massacre in Iraq.

Unsigned by: 128.195.110.107 (→{{editsemiprotected}}: new section)

Venice-Iraq editsemiprotected response

Which Wiki article page and what were the respective coordinates? LeheckaG (talk) 03:14, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I spot-checked:

• Venice (45°26′N 12°19′E)
• Venice, Los Angeles, California (33.99083, -118.45917)
• Venice, Florida (27°5′55″N 82°26′20″W)

Iraq (for instance Baghdad 33°20′N, 44°26′E) has similar Latitudes to (Los Angeles) California, so guessing a Venice/Los Angeles/California article has an incorrect Longitude? LeheckaG (talk) 03:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

How about adding a 'download GPX' link to GeoHack? Tedder (talk) 00:56, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Geoportail... page non existing

Hello to all! Maybe this have been discussed but can't find when. When a French coordinated article is opened it gives the option to see maps and aerial views on Geoportail... but unfortunately it seems that the system has moved and it's not possible to see the page, only a "Page non existing" message. I've been looking how to solve it but it seems very difficult to me. But fortunately there are some pages that explain how to solve the problem using an script to change the coordinates from the normal system to the one used in the geoportail. As the code is open-source ([6]) it can be used and referenced when we want. Does anyone know how to solve this? -Theklan (talk) 19:22, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Is there a way to link to a map of a specific location rather than embedding their maps here? -- User:Docu

Little Wymondley Co-ordinates

The co-ordinates given for Little Wymondley, Hertfordshire, UK are incorrect. The OS reference TL226257 should be TL215275. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PinGreenScout (talk • contribs) 07:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Edit article link

To edit the article where the coordinates are located, I added a new link to the template [7]. In addition, I provide a link to the articles talk page. This adds a line below the title bar as follows to the page (sample from coordinates linked by New York City [8]):

Title	New York City (All coordinates)
Article:	New_York_City [ | ]

The comment link doesn't work if the coordinates are on a page that is not in article namespace. I modified {{Geodata-check}} to have it display a notice for article's talk page.

Possibly the best place to discuss incorrect coordinates is not the article's talk page, but either here or WT:GEO? -- User:Docu

The revised version is an improvement as it focused on the main features, but it may suggest to "report inaccuracies" rather than fix them directly. -- User:Docu

HTML markup samples replaced with XHTML

Dispenser (talk · contribs) recently replaced the HTML samples in this template with XHTML; I reverted, and he did so again. I find his reasons for doing so unconvincing, and intend to replace the HTML unless there are good reasons not to; since neither should be promoted above the other, and HTML was used first. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 19:33, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

XHTML is HTML with a stricter structure. If Alice writes an XHTML page and forget to add slashes to the HTML (using it as we present it) it FAILS validation. Conversely if Bob writes an HTML 4.0 Strict page and uses the XHTML it will continue to PASS validation. Thus XHTML is better for both. Continuing to ignore the arguments I present and claiming that first use trumps all is counter-productive. — Dispenser 00:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Since no such claim was made, your latter point is redundant, if not misleading. None of your arugments (sic) have been ignored. Andy Mabbett (aka Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy Mabbett; Andy Mabbett's contributions

Please stop reverting to XHTML. There appears to be no support for the change. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy Mabbett; Andy Mabbett's contributions 14:45, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

You have not addressed any of my arguments directly, and providing arguments all of which are in the form of Bob simply likes B. Perhaps, if I had called it "adding attributes to HTML for compatibility with other standards" and claimed it only looks like XML you might agree with the changes. Finally about support there are only two people in this debate it looks like I have to resolve to wp:third opinion. — Dispenser 16:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you have not understood that I have addressed the issues you;ve raised. Your "Bob simply likes B" is simply an invention; as is your XML comment. I indicated my intention to revert your (undiscussed) changes here, on this busy page, and no-one else objected. On Wikipedia, silence=consent. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy Mabbett; Andy Mabbett's contributions 16:16, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

If we can use a new sample for both HTML and XHMTL, there isn't really a point in keeping the current HTML version. -- User:Docu

Do you have any evidence (as opposed to theoretical debate) that people write and publish valid HTML 4.01 with closing slashes? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 20:21, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

The reasoning made by dispenser doesn't bring forward this point. -- User:Docu

It is more and more beneficial to use XHTML rather than older forms of HTML. Given that "This HTML markup is provided for use in other websites" it would seem to be an improvement to include the closing slashes required for validation, rather than only giving instructions to "add closing slashes for XHTML if appropriate." Generally closing slashes do not cause problems for older browsers, so there would seem to be no harm in including them. I came here after seeing the listing on WP:3, however, I can't offer a real 3rd opinion because I'm not sure I understand the issue. Maybe you could give a concise summary here of the pros and cons of XHTML in this context. There are obvious advantages to XHTML, but maybe there are disadvantages I'm unaware of that could be stated clearly here. Mesopelagicity (talk) 07:03, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

For whom is XHTML more beneficial? If you mean for publisher or readers on the wider web, that's a PoV, and proselytising it on this template is not in accordance with Wikipedia's policy of neutrality. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 08:32, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

This isn't about proselytizing anything. One might just as well call any attempt to improve an article "proselytizing" on the basis that whether or not something is an improvement depends on one's point of view. Yes, it is my belief that XHTML is generally more beneficial for both publishers and readers. (According to w3.org, "The XHTML family is the next step in the evolution of the Internet." [[9]].) However, the reason to use XHTML in this article would not be to convince people to share this belief. The reason would be to make the article more practically useful to its readers, since they could copy and paste the code into another web page, regardless of whether that page were HTML 4 or XHTML. The policy of neutrality would imply that if this article were discussing the pros and cons of XHTML versus HTML 4, that discussion should be neutral, but that's not what the article is doing, and in any case giving preference to HTML 4 would not be neutral either. If you're opposed to the use of XHTML in this article, you need to give a convincing reason for that opposition. It's useless to argue that "HTML was used first"; Wikipedia articles are meant to be improved. The bottom of the page clearly states, "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly ..., do not submit it." Mesopelagicity (talk) 17:28, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Where have I objected to my writing being edited? Please don't put up straw men. My point is that there is no clear advantage to our readers in displaying XHTML over 4.01 (or vice versa, for that matter) and as such we should stay with what we have; by analogy with en_Gb vs. en_US, AD vs. CE and similar precedents. Claims that "closing slashes are valid in HTML 4.01" are meaningless; what matters is whether our readers use closing slashes in HTML 4.01, or not (the requested evidence has not, as yet, been forthcoming). My experience is that HTML 4.01 authors do not; and though I use both 4.01 and XHTML; and will have to remove the closing slashes from for 4.01, according to the house standards where I do so; and I know I'm not alone in that. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I apologize for my incorrect speculation that you might have objected to your writing being edited. I was trying to understand the significance of the argument that "HTML was used first", and I had no intention of putting up a straw man. Thank you for the clarification. Also thanks for raising the issue of house standards for HTML 4.01, which is the first argument against closing slashes I've seen that appears to have any merit. Nevertheless, the fact incorrect belief that "closing slashes are valid in HTML 4.01" is far from meaningless. It supports would support the argument that closing slashes are valid for both HTML 4 and XHTML and therefore code with closing slashes is more generally useful. A house standard against closing slashes seems unfortunate since it obstructs writing code that is compatible with both HTML 4 and XHTML. I would expect such a house standard to change with the times, and I suspect there must already be some house standards that dictate the opposite -- using closing slashes whenever such usage provides interoperability between XHTML and HTML 4. I don't have evidence for that suspicion, though. Nevertheless, providing compatibility with both XHTML and HTML 4 seems to me a higher priority than providing compatibility with a particular house standard, so my opinion now is that it is better to use closing slashes in this article. Mesopelagicity (talk) 19:09, 10 September 2008 (UTC) (struck-out mistakes Mesopelagicity (talk) 01:18, 16 September 2008 (UTC))

No; you did. I'll take that as "no", then. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 08:32, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Third opinion: Put in the /s. They don't hurt strict HTML compliance, and do aid XHTML compliance. "We should stay with what we have" isn't a convincing argument where there is a reason to change, it's only convincing when the two alternatives are equivalent. Since with one alternative we meet two standards, and with the other, only one, they're not equivalent. The "house standards" not to do so don't seem to be documented anywhere, so could well be extrapolating from a limited subset. --GRuban (talk) 15:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I decided to check this out; and it seems that [validation link redacted - see below] closing slashes in HTML 4.01 are invalid]. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

You're right and I was wrong. What an inconvenient truth! I'd be in favor of giving priority to XHTML over HTML 4, but the idea of supporting both with the same code seems to be hopeless. Mesopelagicity (talk) 01:18, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Since I and others favour HTML 4,.01 over XHTML (and I admit that that's as much a matter of religion as science!); the only way to resolve this fairly would seem to be, as I said above (and as did GRuban, inadvertently!), to take the precedence of en-GB vs, en-US, or "AD" vs "CE", and stick with what was used first. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 01:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Andy, well checked. --GRuban (talk) 18:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Y'welcome. I'm going to fix the page, soon, so anyone reading this in future will have to take our words for it, or conduct their own test. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:17, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

geo.region

I have just removed, for the second time, the addition of a "geo.region" mark-up sample. The GEO metadata header comprises two parts: two-letter country code and one-, two- or three-letter regional code (ISO 3166-2), separated by a hyphen [10]. The regional code is optional only if the country identified in the first part has no defined region codes. As I explained in my first edit summary, the code for a suburb of Birmingham, such as Perry Barr, should be "GB-BIR". The mark-up I have removed included the country-code "GB", but not the hyphen and region-code; presumably because region-codes in coordinate templates are less precise. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 20:05, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

It's not that important if we add geo.region or not. An easy way to fix it would be to complete the region-code on Perry Barr. BTW why do you mention "Dublin Core"? -- User:Docu

Indeed it's not important; but if we do so, we should do it properly. Fixing Perry Barr (if it is broken - are coordinates links supplied to always use available 2+3 format location codes?) would resolve the issue in respect of that one article, but no other. Dublin core was included in the subject header in error. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 15:10, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Nearest latitude & longitude articles

Unresolved

For a longitude value of, say, 1° 54, this service links to the "1° W" article, where the "2° W" article would be more relevant. Is it possible to add logic to solve this issue, or offer both? Likewise for the nearest latitude. I thought I had the answer in latdeground & londeground but they don't work for negative values, so I've reverted myself. For example, San Paulo is at 23.5433°S 46.633°W / -23.5433; -46.633. Existing parameters give:

• latdegabs: 23,
• latdegint: -23
• latdeground: -24
• londegabs: 46
• londegint: -46
• londeground: -47

but there appears to be no parameters for the required, positive-integer values of "24" or "47". Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy Mabbett; Andy Mabbett's contributions 16:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Magnus Manske has now kindly added {latdegroundabs} and {londegroundabs} as keywords. Unfortunately, though they work for, say, -33.8 W, - 2.89 N; (producing 34 & 3 respectively) they do not do so for -33.1 W, -2.2 N, when they produce 33 and 2, but we still want 34 and 3. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:52, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

So, you always want "up-rounded" values? -2.01 and -2.99 both giving -3? Can do that, but I'm curious as to why. Also, should I use {latdegroundabs}/{londegroundabs} for that, or add yet more keywords? --Magnus Manske (talk) 22:38, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Any given point, not actually *on* a line of latitude or longitude, is in a box whose sides are two latitudes and two longitudes. We already refer people links to one of each, we should offer all four. I suggest new keywords. Thanks, Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:56, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

OK, try {latdeg_outer_abs} and {londeg_outer_abs}. These should always give the "outer" values, so 2.1 => 3, 2.9 => 3, -2.1 => -3, -2.9 => -3 --Magnus Manske (talk) 00:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry; my mistake. The values should always be +ve, so 2.1 => 3, 2.9 => 3, -2.1 => 3, -2.9 => 3 (to be used like this). Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:15, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

{latdeg_outer_abs} and {londeg_outer_abs} should now work as expected. --Magnus Manske (talk) 12:33, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Another sunrise and sunset calculation brought to you by Earthtools

http://www.earthtools.org/sun/{latdegdec}/{londegdec}/{{CURRENTDAY}}/{{CURRENTMONTH}}/99/0

Examples for New York:
http://www.earthtools.org/sun/40.71417/-74.00639/18/12/-5/0 fixed timezone
http://www.earthtools.org/sun/40.71417/-74.00639/18/12/99/0 auto timezone

Text on page could be something like:

• www.earthtools.org Get today's sunrise and sunset information for this location (result is XML-formatted, automatically calculate timezone, no DST)

Thomas Lerman - 17:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Markup samples

As markup samples are not meant to be used in this wikipedia, but elsewhere. There isn't really a point in removing samples from the template, e.g. {{coor d}} or {{coordinate}}. As there is no consensus for such a change, it should be reverted. -- User:Docu —Preceding unsigned comment added by Docu (talk • contribs) 11:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Where else are such samples - deprecated by consensus for WP-EN - likely to be used? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:27, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

In any non-EN WP. -- User:Docu —Preceding unsigned comment added by Docu (talk • contribs) 11:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Then they should be in a separate section, lower down the page, and clearly marked as not for use on WP-EN (until such time as other WPs deprecate them). Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Now done. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Even {{coord}} isn't for use in WP-EN as the source:enwiki hasn't much use here. -- User:Docu —Preceding unsigned comment added by Docu (talk • contribs) 11:39, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I can't parse that. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

source:enwiki would indicate in the WP of another language that the coordinates were copied from here. The Anome imports coordinate to WP-EN and indicates their source, e.g. source:eswiki. -- User:Docu —Preceding unsigned comment added by Docu (talk • contribs) 19:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

google maps location label

I found a way to label the point in Google Maps; I adjusted the first three URLs accordingly. I tested it every way I could think of using two dozen kinds of coordinates, FireFox, Sea Monkey, and Internet Exploder. I didn't see anything go wrong, so I'm inclined to leave the change unreverted. If you do see something wayward, please let me know. —EncMstr (talk) 06:44, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

This had stopped the scale/type parameter from working. All links from articles to Google Maps ended up at the same scale and far too close in for details to be seen. In some cases the sat image was not visible at all. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 07:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

See Image:CYCB 1 cropped.JPG which shows the problem. The image is too close for the entire airport to be seen and the label says it's "Cambridge Municipal Airport" but is Cambridge Bay Airport. Image:CYCB 2 cropped.JPG shows how it should normally look. I have a couple of other screenshots if required. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 08:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

PlanetEye URL structure update required

PlanetEye has updated the structure of their URLs and as a result need to be updated from: http://www.planeteye.com/Map.aspx#lat={latdegdec}&lng={londegdec}&z={osmzoom}&mediaLens=media to http://www.planeteye.com/Map.aspx?lat={latdegdec}&lng={londegdec}&z={osmzoom}&mediaLens=media (change # -> ?). The old URL will still work, but it will fail to point users to the requested coordinates. Please note that PlanetEye is listed at the top of the template and should be added to the "Photography" section near the end of the template. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Planeteye (talk • contribs) 12:53, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I've made the change, but don't have Flash on this machine; please will someone check the results? Thank you. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 14:00, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

The first link (under Global Systems) works fine now. However, the same change is required for the link under "Other systems with wiki aspects". If applicable, I believe it should also be added to the "Photography" section at the bottom. Thanks! Planeteye (talk) 11:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Latitude / Longitude links

The Wikipedia articles on individual latitudes / longitudes aren't at titles "Latitude 60 degrees N" ("Longitude 20 degrees E" etc.) as linked, but instead at 60th parallel north (20th meridian east, etc.) --dab (𒁳) 11:24, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

There are redirects at Category talk:Lines of latitude and Category talk:Lines of longitude that link to those articles. As geohack can't do ordinals yet, at some point we have to use redirects. The question is if which of the below you prefer:

1. "{londegabs}_meridian_{lonEW}" => 101 meridian W
2. "{londegabs}nd_meridian_{lonEW}" 101nd meridian W
3. "Longitude_{londegabs}_degrees_{lonEW}" => Longitude 101 degrees W
4. etc.

BTW, I just created the missing redirect from Latitude 60 degrees N. -- User:Docu

Local landmarks?

Is there anyway to locate local landmarks near a landmark on GeoHack?

For example, what are the local landmarks already on GeoHack near Odessa Philharmonic Theater? Thank you. Odessaukrain (talk) 13:43, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Currently the best (only?) way would be to open a Google Maps view, and enable (via the "more" tab) their Wikipedia layer: thus. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 14:15, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

In the second section of the GeoHack page is Systems with Wikipedia data. For example, choosing a 20 km radius of the last entry gives this. Note that has a "map" button for graphic display, though crude, it's evolving. If you have Google Earth, there are a few other good options in the section as well. —EncMstr (talk) 15:37, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

In addition to Google services, Multimap and Geonames have Wikipedia placemarks as well. Geonames also shows a list sorted by distance, like the toolserver list EncMstr mentioned.

It would be great if we could somehow get this information on the page so that people wouldn't need first hand experience of each service to know what they're like. There could maybe be tags for each service that people could then choose from to see the services with that tag at the top of the list or a separate frame. That would probably require Javascript, but this type of dynamic functionality has been requested before as well, so that people could have their preferred services first. --Para (talk) 16:43, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Wow you guys rock, this page is much more active than most of the other pages. I got three responses in 12 hours. Incredible! thank you! Odessaukrain (talk) 07:37, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

**Later** Para, how do you access Multimap and Geonames placemarks? And the Geonames list sorted by distance? thank you. Odessaukrain (talk) 08:03, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you click on the GeoHack link, on the left side there's links to both of those services. The Multimap service has a checkbox on the left side for turning on the Wikipedia placemarks, similar to Google. Multimap seems to require a close zoom before it shows anything, though. The Geonames link leads you to a map view that has the list underneath. Both of those services rely on Wikipedia database dumps which don't come out very often, so the data may be a bit old, but looking at a live map of the Odessa category, there aren't that many Odessa related articles with coordinates. Looks like you'll need to go through some categories with help from Wikipedia:Coordinates! --Para (talk) 12:39, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! This page is by far the easiest to use for what I want to do right now. Para, interesting that your user name is in the Google box and the web address. thanks again Para. Odessaukrain (talk) 17:08, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Glad to hear that, as the tool that enables the functionality is indeed mine. I can't take much credit for leading people to it, though, since this talk page is the only place where you could have found the live map link of the category tree. Linking to it is a bit of a puzzle, discussed at Template talk:GeoGroupTemplate#Request for recursive grab of category tree to specified depth. Maybe others will have ideas to solve the problem mentioned there? --Para (talk) 13:59, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Streetmap link

The link from this template using www.streetmap.co.uk appears to come out in the wrong place. It just came to notice after I made this edit. Using Google Earth I got 53.740639 -0.338164 (53° 44' 26.30"N -0° 20' 17.39"W) which is in the middle of the ship. A test on the page got me this Map sources/GeoHack listing. In turn I got this from Google Maps but it made the Streetmaps link is right off. But if you go to the Streetmap site directly then this is what you get, which looks fairly close. The other links on the template look to be in the right place, so is there any way to fix the Streetmap link? Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 23:06, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

There was a mention of problems with the conversion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates/Archive 12#UK co-ordinate conversions faulty.3F, but it seems that nothing came of it despite all the noise. That's unfortunate to say the least. Luckily StreetMap handles the WGS84 coordinates used on Wikipedia as well, and I just changed the links to use those instead. That's problem solved with StreetMap, but there are still other services that use the OSGB grid references... --Para (talk) 00:13, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response on that. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 00:40, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Problems with kmlexport

Link problems

I don't know how this can be solved: The link you gave above, which was the "live map of the Odessa category":

http://toolserver.org/~para/cgi-bin/kmlexport?article=Category:Odessa&redir=google&l=0

Links too a different Google maps address every time, such as these:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://toolserver.org/~para/kmlexport-temp/23e8fa27a50d25cfb2762b98e5d62ccf.kmz

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://toolserver.org/~para/kmlexport-temp/51bc4be4ebeb6a56c561be56d1aef065.kmz

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://toolserver.org/~para/kmlexport-temp/fecd41b9b4c43051f4cef69fc0eb06bc.kmz

The maps.google.com link I added to this page yesterday:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://toolserver.org/~para/kmlexport-temp/cf7c2d806a126ab22f4bef3ad80eb06e.kmz

No longer works, do these links expire after a certain period of time? So if someone likes your link, they cannot save the page address on google maps and return to it. Odessaukrain (talk) 14:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, they expire after a while, and I was hoping the "temp" and odd file name would have given that out. Maybe I will have to make the caching internal to the tool at some point, instead of distributing temporary urls. Perhaps everything about this tool should be discussed on Template talk:GeoGroupTemplate, since links from categories never lead to the GeoTemplate? --Para (talk) 15:34, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Categories listed?

If you notice here: http://toolserver.org/~para/cgi-bin/kmlexport?article=Category:Odessa&redir=google&l=0

and

Category:People from Odessa

are listed on the map, which both link to bad locations...

how can we fix this? Odessaukrain (talk) 14:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

That request makes Google Maps show all the articles from Category:Odessa and its subcategories that have coordinates. There are lots of articles in the category, and some of them may have incorrect or inappropriate coordinates.

The "link to bad locations" probably means what Google Maps shows when you click on a folder name (category): "We are sorry, but we don't have imagery at this zoom level for this region. Try zooming out for a broader look." The problem there is that when there are no placemarks in a folder, or just one placemark, or many placemarks in a small area, Google Maps zooms to the maximum zoom available in the interface, even when they do not have imagery detailed enough. This is a Google Maps problem that we can't really do anything about, except maybe by not showing empty categories in the list? I'm not sure about that fix, since sometimes it may be useful to know that a geographically related category has certain subcategories with no articles with coordinates, but in many cases it can indeed be useless information. --Para (talk) 15:34, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Not all locations listed

The link: http://toolserver.org/~para/cgi-bin/kmlexport?article=Category:Odessa&redir=google&l=0

Does not list all locations, including the Seventh-Kilometer Market and Odessa International Airport Odessaukrain (talk) 14:57, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

That's a categorisation problem: those articles aren't in any of the subcategories of Odessa. You can fix it by adding them to Category:Buildings and structures in Odessa, Ukraine for example. --Para (talk) 15:34, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

thanks, I will do that, I appreciate your response. Odessaukrain (talk) 13:28, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Template:Coord Floating over the top line:How?

Can anyone explain how the Template:Coord is able to float over the top line? thanks Odessaukrain (talk) 14:13, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

It's done using the CSS position:absolute: which is found for those using the MonoBook skin on lines 137-162 in MediaWiki:Monobook.css — Dispenser 14:22, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much sir/ma'am, you are wonderful. What a quick response too. Odessaukrain (talk) 14:28, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

*later* Great starting at:

/* For positioning icons at top-right, used in Templates

"Spoken Article" and "Featured Article" */

And concluding at:

text-transform: none;

white-space: nowrap;

} [line 163]

Odessaukrain (talk) 14:39, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Generally, this should make it should float below the the top line, but what makes it float on the top line (e.g. at Lakehurst_Mall) ? -- User:Docu

Infoboxes are specified with a small font-size (90%) and the positioning is specified in ems which is affected by font-size. This is done so that when a user scales the font size of the page all the interface elements scale accordingly. This could be corrected by using the inverse font-size (111%) around the outside the coordinate. Or adding a class to correct the positioning when present in an infobox. — Dispenser 16:57, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Is there a way to correct it in Template:Coord/display/inline,title ? My attempts at Template:Coord/display/inline,title-sandbox weren't exactly successful. -- User:Docu

This version looks ok at Template talk:Coord (top corner) and Talk:Lakehurst Mall (with same infobox as Lakehurst Mall). -- User:Docu

On that infobox specifically you would need to set the size to ~95%. If all the infoboxes used 90% as the base font size then you could do the following:

/* Add to Monobook.css */
.infobox #coordinates {
    font-size: 94.35%; <!-- .85 * 1/.90 -->
}

However, they come in all sorts of font-sizes so the possiblity best solution is to hard code a pixel value instead or increase the offset. — Dispenser 07:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The font-size:small tag in [11] seems more reliable. Shall we try this? Compared to the current version, it's an improvement. -- User:Docu

position

Who chose the ranking of the different service-providers? btw. please add openstreetmap, non-javascript version also, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.44.153.22 (talk) 16:08, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Address finder

This new mash-up returns likely postal addresses for a given point on a map. Perhaps someone can figure out how to use it here? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:47, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

not working without javascript —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.44.153.22 (talk) 17:52, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

New Global Mapping Data Source?

I'd like to proprose a new timezone and time mapping data source for this page (disclosure: I work for the World Time Engine).

In summary, it's a powerful source for time and timezone info that let's users search by coordinates. A link from this template may look as follows: http://worldtimeengine.com/dotime/70.485556,-21.966944/ (lat,long).

Please let me know if people find this interesting, useful and whether anyone would like to include this as a data source. I'm happy to make the necessary edits but please let me know if there are any objections. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richtibb (talk • contribs) 20:02, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

It's a little interesting. It would be way more interesting if it showed the timezone boundary on the map, or at least revised the timezone when the map is panned to another timezone. I tried to find the Pacific-Mountain time zone boundary in eastern Oregon near here. —EncMstr (talk) 20:27, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

World Time Engine has a resolution accuracy around timezone boundaries of around +/- 2km. On a world scale that's an accuracy in the ninety ninth point nine something percetile. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richtibb (talk • contribs) 22:44, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

The accuracy seems fine. I was responding to how difficult it was to find where the boundary was using the tool. Since it's built on Google Maps, it easily pans and zooms. But doesn't notice it's a new timezone. I progressively entered coordinates so it would recompute the position's timezone. But there seems to be no non-tedious way to find a timezone boundary. —EncMstr (talk) 22:54, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

This could be a good feature although the timezone lookup is perhaps too heavy a process to 'stream' via the map to the user. A lot of our visitors (and definately ALL of our servers) probably couldn't handle that kind of bandwidth. However, you can enter up to 5 places in one go. In the search box on the site you can seperate different places with ' and ' (i.e. type '51.5, -0.1 and 70.485556,-21.966944' (here's the resulting url).

Perhaps we could continue this thread on my discussion page. Coming back to the initial question: I hope to add this data source to the template. Rather than just go ahead and do it I wanted to check with the main contributors...at the very least it will stop me having to copy and paste across coordinates...do it for my sanity! :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richtibb (talk • contribs) 23:44, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've tentatively added this to the timezone section of the template. We will work on your suggestion for displaying timezone boundaries on the maps - agreed this could be useful so we just need to find a way to do this now. Thanks for the feedback. Richtibb (talk) 10:54, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

New Service - Videomap Nearest Videos

{{editsemiprotected}}

With Videomap Nearest Videos you can watch nearest videos of a point.

This is the url:

Nearest Videos where ll={latdegdec},{londegdec}

Videomap (talk) 16:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Not done: Promotional links will not be added. Sorry.--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 13:17, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Add viwer maps tool for Catalonia maps

{{editsemiprotected}} I'm a developer of the Vissir, the online tool to display the official cartography of Catalonia published by ICC, (regional cartography agency). I will add a link to this tool that it accepts wgs84 coordinates to display a map centered in the specified point for a valid catalan coordinate similar to Swiss examples. I think add a link in Spain section under the current link to MSN Maps like this:

Spain

Service ! Coverage ! Map
MSN Mapas España	all	Map
Vissir - ICC	Catalonia	Map

--Catcarto (talk) 08:41, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Done--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 17:46, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

We had made a similar improvement in ca:wiki, but it doesn't appear yet when coordinates are clicked from articles. Is necessary to make any operation to upload new versions of the template to toolserver? In en:wiki it seems to have start working in moments. Thank you.--Pere prlpz (talk) 20:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Japanese page

Recent several days, Japanese page (URI parameter language=ja) may be broken. If it is broken, please someone fix it...--Inoue-hiro (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 11:13, 12 November 2008 (UTC).

The danish page language=da is broken too - :-( - Nico-dk (talk) 15:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Co-ordinates for Willy Lott's Cottage

Not sure how this works so ...

Just noticed that the co-ordinates on google earth for the marker that leads to this Wikipedia entry are a bit out, indicating a row of converted stables, rather than Willy's cottage.

Currently co-ordinates are: 51.57.29.12 N 1.1.2.25 E

Should be: 51.57.30.14 N 1.1.19.26 E

Over to the experts...

Regards Huw —Preceding unsigned comment added by Huw Wigmore (talk • contribs) 13:13, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorted. Now at 51°57′30″N 1°1′19″E --J Clear (talk) 17:59, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikimapia

I've been told by someone connected with the Open Street Map project that Wikimapia is using Google Maps imagery, however it's not clear from the Wikimapia site, how they are complying with Google's terms of use.

With this in mind, and having previously encountered this issue, I would strongly urge reconsideration of Wikimapia's inclusion in the GeoTemplates list, at least until someone can get a positive confrimation out of Wikimapia that they comply with Google's terms on reuse of Google Maps imagery.

Because of the current unclear status of Wikimapia, I'm currently commenting direct links to that site, coord template tags are not affected directly as such, but there needs to be an effort to replace the Wikimapia (and I will note geonames.org) sourced coordinates with ones whose Copyright source is verifiable.

Sfan00 IMG (talk) 23:31, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

They aren't using Google's imagery, they are using Google Maps service, which is wrapped in many other services as well. See Adding Google Maps to a site using an API. Wikimapia then adds additional layers. Since it's been operating for 2+ years, if Google had any objections, they could deactivate the API key. That Wikimapia continues to work and gets widespread use must mean Google approves of its use of their API. —EncMstr (talk) 23:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

OK, Perhaps you would be willing to get WikiMapia and Google to confrim this to OTRS? Sfan00 IMG (talk) 00:07, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Clause 10.2 of the Google Maps/Earth Terms of Service specifically prevent derivation of data from their API and imagery:

10. License Restrictions. Except as expressly permitted under the Terms, or unless you have received prior written authorization from Google (or, as applicable, from the provider of particular Content), Google's licenses above are subject to your adherence to all of the restrictions below. Except as explicitly permitted in Section 7, you must not (nor may you permit anyone else to):

10.2 copy, translate, modify, create a derivative work of, or publicly display any Content or any part thereof (for example, the following are prohibited: (a) creating server-side modification of map tiles; and (b) stitching multiple static map images together to display a map that is larger than permitted in the Maps APIs Documentation);

--Grand Edgemaster _Talk 00:25, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Edgemaster , I have created {{geofacti}} and {{tl:Georefimprove}} to be used on articles which appear to be using Google/Wikimapia currently}}, Hopefully this will enourage the use of 'free' data sets like OSM (which is mainly directly surveyed) Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:38, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Edgemaster, I believe what Wikimapia is doing is in line with clause 10.2: they aren't modifying the content—such as recoloring or distorting. They only overlay additional data. This is done by other sites as well:

• GeoNames
• ACME mapper
• Linked to by USGS GNIS (see right side of this link)
  • Google Maps
  • Home Town Locator
  • ACME Mapper

—EncMstr (talk) 20:26, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

It is not that part of the clause that I am referring to, but the create a derivative work of phrase. Wikimapia is a derivative work of the Google Maps data, and is thus infringing upon their Terms of Service and copyrights. This is particularly evident from their map-creation functions (currently in beta). --Grand Edgemaster _Talk 23:02, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I have requested input from Wikimapia - see http://wikimapia.org/forum/?t=3204. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 14:41, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

The URL in that Wikimapia topic has a period in it which makes it not work on Wikipedia. I tried to post a correct there, but couldn't figure out how. —EncMstr (talk) 20:26, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

the link was fixed by another Wikimapia editor -- thanks --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 22:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Edgemaster - You might want to look at User talk:Sfan00_IMG, it seems some other contibrutors are concerned about attempts

made to comment Google Maps links.. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 23:26, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

As explained there, merely referencing a mapping service, be it Google or Yahoo does not infringe on their copyrights. Simply pointing a reader to a specific map as a source of information, whether that source is hosted online or printed on paper does not impact the copyright claims, if any. Period. Commenting out the sources used for an article does harm though in that articles no longer show their sources. Imzadi1979 (talk) 23:51, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

My argument is still that, by using Google as a source, enwiki is creating a derived data-set, however as this looks set to run, it would be premature to continue removals, whilst the matter is undecided. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 00:38, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

This argument has grown to more than it was apparently originally intended to be. The question is, should Wikipedia be linking to, and thus supporting another project that blatantly ignores geodata copyright? --Grand Edgemaster _Talk 00:55, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I think from the above, that's not been proven... And until it is, let's not make rash comments.. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 01:17, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Non-coordinate permalinks (e.g. Wikimapia)

Some sites, such as Wikimapia, provide a facility for the creation of non-coordinate, place name-based permalinks. For example compare http://wikimapia.org/#y=39.2184&x=-75.5964&z=14&l=0&m=h&v=2 to http://wikimapia.org/1485947/Delaware-Airpark-33N. What are your thoughts on being able to include external site-designated permalinks in addition to coordinate-based links? I realize that the inclusion of the name-based permalinks could not be automated ... in general; automation would be possible if there were congruence in placenames between Wikipedia and the external resource, but that is unlikely and impossible to enforce. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 14:46, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Locations from OS map links

Is there a problem with link from OS map references being shown east of the location specified. As an example SX000000 should be shown on a grid intersection but when displayed on streetmap it is displaced east of the intended point. Then when using its conversion gives it back as SX001000. Keith D (talk) 00:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

If you measure it- it is probably 112 m out. This is caused by the algorithm used to convert from WSG84 to OSGB36 used in by Ordnance survey. When someone has the time, ability and inclination-the routines used by Haworth to do these Helmert conversions need to be checked, I have found a more accurate implementation written in Javascript that I use in my tool. Equally, map providers seem to have difficulty in accurately plotting a co-ord. I think that in the past the 112m inaccuracy was bearable, but now it is appropriate to seek a solution. -ClemRutter (talk) 10:32, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I raised this issue with RHaworth, whose external site performs the (faulty) gridref-to-latlong conversions, back in March 2007, but he hasn't done anything about it yet. See User talk:RHaworth/Archive to 2007 April#OSGB36 and WGS84. The error is of the order of 100 m but varies around the country. ClemRutter's tool appears to work correctly. --Dr Greg (talk) 18:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)