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This page is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of that source. The citation is in:

Sohrab Chamanara (2010). "Ancient Pueblo Peoples Anasazi".

Archives

1, 2, 3, 4

Archiving

This discussion page was way overdue for archiving (it was at 112,901 bytes!); however, I didn't want to archive the previous move discussions while the third one was still active, so people could easily read other editors' previous responses. For future reference, the three move discussions can be found here:

-Uyvsdi (talk) 21:56, 9 June 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi[reply]

New Jersey

Also, is there a compelling reason why this article is part of the New Jersey wikiproject? -Uyvsdi (talk) 21:57, 9 June 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi[reply]

None I can see, though the tags are to specific Universities, if that matters. Was some sort of really significant research done via those institutions? And I can't seem to see how to toss them, so maybe someone vandalized a template? Montanabw^(talk) 19:15, 10 June 2012 (UTC) Follow up - it does appear to be a formatting glitch, I've put in a request at WP US for someone to fix it. Montanabw^(talk) 20:37, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Name should be either "Ancestral Puebloans" or "Anasazi"

Please note: This article, as so many others (including the one in the Encyclopedia Brittanica), mistakenly names these people. They are not "Ancient Pueblo peoples", nor are they "Ancestral Pueblo peoples". As explained in Mesa Verde National Park literature ( http://www.nps.gov/meve/forteachers/upload/ancestral_puebloans.pdf ) and as called by the Park and by the Hopi people, the name is "Ancestral Puebloans". Everyone who works at Mesa Verde or lives anywhere in the Four Corners area calls them either "Ancestral Puebloans" or "Anasazi". Why?

Years ago the Hopi Nation expressed their certainty that their ancestors were the people who populated the Four Corners area for several thousand years. When that culture collapsed (for many reasons), the people migrated into the Rio Grande Valley and into Arizona where they merged with already existing cultures. In the late 20th century, the Hopi expressed grave concerns that their ancestors from this ancient culture were being called by a Navajo name, for the Hopi and Navajos have had many centuries of conflict. The Hopi's prevailed on Mesa Verde National Park staff to change all references to the ancient culture from "Anasazi" to the name that the Hopi's preferred, "Ancestral Puebloans". Some scholars and land managers in the Four Corners area have accepted the "Ancestral Puebloan" name. Others, such as, the Bureau of Land Management, have not. The BLM, for instance, calls its museum just north of Mesa Verde, "The Anasazi Heritage Center".

What difference does the name make? "Ancestral Puebloan" is the name the Hopis have chosen and to say "Ancester Pueblos" or "Ancient Pueblo peoples" or any of the numerous other names that people who live out of the Four Corners area have made up, is simply disrespectful and sloppy scholarship. Granted, the term "Ancestral Puebloans" is a tongue-twisting mouthful, but that is the ONLY correct name chosen by the Hopis. Also granted, it can be seen as a strange name choice since "Puebloans" is a Spanish word. One would have thought the Hopis would push for their Hopi name for their ancestors. They didn't, and we should respect their name choice. End of note. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Al Schneider 1 (talk • contribs) 2013-02-16 04:02:41

Effectively you are asking that the article be moved. Have you read the three links above to earlier move discussions? Dougweller (talk) 13:03, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The earlier repeated move proposals proposed "Anasazi" on the basis of WP:UCN citing Google Scholar citation counts, overruled by the objection that the people most closely associated with the term objected to its use. A move to "Ancestral Puebloan" addresses both concerns. As stated above, this name is actually favored by people most closely associated to it, while a GScholar search for publications in 2013 finds roughly equal support for "Puebloan" as "Anasazi." Also, the article title for the present-day continuation of the ancestral Puebloan culture is already "Puebloan peoples." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.16.144.120 (talk) 17:45, 3 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have been approached by another editor with the same concern, and the google scholar hits are also suggestive that a move to Ancestral Puebloans may be warranted. I don't think the fact that the Hopi favor the word is fully persuasive, because there are other pueblo people who also count the ancient pueblo cultures as their ancestors - we don't know what they favor. To me the fact that "Ancestral Puebloans" have almost 3 time as many hits on google scholar than "Ancient pueblo people" is a strong argument.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 18:50, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Maunus. And would add that Anasazi means ancient enemy, so that's not the best term. Rationalobserver (talk) 18:56, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Move proposal "Ancient Pueblo peopls" > "Ancestral Puebloans"

Requested move 4 March 2015

The request to rename this article to Ancestral Puebloans has been carried out.

If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

Ancient Pueblo peoples → Ancestral Puebloans – See discussion above ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 19:31, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Citation for violence of puebloans

We can use this scientific article: http://www.science20.com/news_articles/the_most_violent_era_in_america_was_before_europeans_arrived-141847 ...as a citation for the violence of puebloans before Europeans arrived.74.14.22.58 (talk) 03:13, 9 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Great Drought

The claim that the Great Drought was 300 years long is contradicted by [1], though the definition may depend on how bad a drop in rainfall counts as a drought. -- Beland (talk) 20:53, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 *I have been approached by another editor with the same concern, and the google scholar hits are also suggestive that a move to Ancestral Puebloans may be warranted. I don't think the fact that the Hopi favor the word is fully persuasive, because there are other pueblo people who also count the ancient pueblo cultures as their ancestors - we don't know what they favor. To me the fact that "Ancestral Puebloans" have almost 3 time as many hits on google scholar than "Ancient pueblo people" is a strong argument.[[User:Maunus|·maunus]] · [[User talk:Maunus|snunɐɯ·]] 18:50, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 :: I agree with Maunus. And would add that ''Anasazi'' means ancient enemy, so that's not the best term. [[User:Rationalobserver|Rationalobserver]] ([[User talk:Rationalobserver|talk]]) 18:56, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
+===Move proposal "Ancient Pueblo peopls" > "Ancestral Puebloans"===
+== Requested move 4 March 2015 ==
+{{requested move/dated|Ancestral Puebloans}}
+[[:Ancient Pueblo peoples]] → {{no redirect|Ancestral Puebloans}} – See discussion above [[User:Maunus|·maunus]] · [[User talk:Maunus|snunɐɯ·]] 19:31, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 ==See also links==