Talk:Nissan Lucino

Move 200SX here

No, the name Lucino has no frame of reference here in the US. The car was marketed, sold and known as the Nissan 200SX for its entire production run.

While the two cars may be virtually identical they were different. The Nissan 200SX was unique to the US and therefore separate pages should be utilized. The pages can reference each other to illustrate the similarities, but merging the two pages creates confusion and merges what is essentially two separate cars under a single name that one of the cars is not known as. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KyleFN (talk • contribs) 08:53, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Additionally, this entire page is nothing more than a Copy/Paste of the work I did on the 200SX page. That table was created by me and contains the sales figures for the 200SX in the US. Lucino was never sold in the US so those sales figures do not apply as there were 0 Lucinos sold in the US. Please delete the incorrect information on this page and correct your information to include info and stats for the Lucino that was sold in the market it was actually sold in.

Hello, when you contribute to Wikipedia, the information added belongs to whomever reads the article, and that reader is free to edit the article, with verifiable references. "By clicking the "Save page" button, you agree to the Terms of Use and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL with the understanding that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient for CC BY-SA 3.0 attribution". While this vehicle was sold in North America as the Nissan 200SX, in Japan, where Nissan originated, it was sold as the Lucino, with equipment modifications to suit North America. It's still a Lucino, which strictly speaking, it's actually a Nissan Sunny B series two-door sedan, sharing the chassis, front wheel drive transmission and engine with the B14 series Sunny (Sentra to North Americans)(Regushee (talk) 14:56, 16 May 2014 (UTC))

A thorny one, this! There are cases to be made on both sides, I feel. Since the Lucino badge (AFAIK) was not used in any English speaking markets one could argue that this content belongs at Nissan 200SX, as per WP:CAR. However, the Japanese Lucino range also included Pulsar-based versions like the Hatch and the S-RV, which would be a very bad fit on the 200SX page. (The 200SX page is by the way quite lacking, since it doesn't even mention the use of this name on the S10/S110/S12/S14/S15 Silvia and on many export versions of the 180SX.) Keeping the Lucino content here at Nissan Lucino would be useful; Nissan 200SX could be turned into a dab page à la Mazda 121. Naturally this page needs a minor rewrite to clarify the differences between US/CDN/Mexican models and the wider Japanese range. What do y'all think?  Mr.choppers | ✎  18:04, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

That's sort of my point. The word "Lucino" has absolutely no meaning to those of us who owned the car here in the US. It was never marketed, sold or known by that name. My 1995 Nissan 200SX SE-R was a 200SX and the 200SX page is information about that specific car, which as you said is actually different from the car known as the Lucino. There were mechanical differences as well as body and configuration differences. They may share a lot of parts but they are essentially two separate cars. The "Lucino" that was sold in other markets needs it's own page with it's own separate data sets & images. The 200SX page states at the top that it is a page about the North American 200SX. If a Lucino page is to be created then that page should reference that car and data about it, not the 200SX. This is needlessly creating confusion for no good reason at all. As a former owner of a 1995 Nissan 200SX SE-R I assure you the word "Lucino" was completely unknown to me the entire time I owned the car here in the US.

As I mentioned on the Talk page for the 200SX I am in possession of mountains of data for the 200SX (brochures for all year models, user manual, a packet of info my salesperson got me from Nissan corporate). When I get a spare moment I intend to scan/upload this info. But I'm not going to bother to do all that work if the 200SX page keeps getting plagiarized/vandalized by this one misinformed/mistaken editor (Regushee). — Preceding unsigned comment added by KyleFN (talk • contribs) 20:27, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Let me further belabor the point; take a look at this: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=78753&endYear=2015&modelCode1=NIS200SX&showcaseOwnerId=69944&startYear=1981&makeCode1=NISSAN&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BNISSAN%5BNIS200SX%5BNIS200SX%257CSE-R%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=368989924&Log=0

The word "Lucino" does not show up anywhere on that page, because it is not known by that name. You can't even search for a "Nissan Lucino" on Autotrader.com because that name holds no meaning here in the US. I'm just trying to illustrate how much confusion this could create if an American/Canadian goes searching for info on the 200SX and winds up at the "Lucino" page and sees photos of cars that were never sold here along with a mix of info that doesn't pertain to the vehicle they're researching. It's not hard to imagine that they might think they're on the wrong page, because they would be.KyleFN (talk) 21:03, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

First of all: Wikipedia is not only for US/CDN readers. Secondly, the "200SX" badge has been applied to a number of export market Nissans, mostly Silvia-based ones, so using that page strictly for a coupe version of the Sentra is incorrect. Thirdly, we try to eliminate duplicate content, and the Lucino coupe and this 200SX are almost exactly the same, aside from minor equipment differences. Since "200SX" has never been used for an exclusive range of cars, I suggest creating a dab page specifically to minimize confusion - see Mazda 121 for a simple example of what I had in mind.

As for the Nissan Lucino article, I suggest having a subsection specifically for the US/CDN/MEX coupe version. And I will give you the benefit of doubt since you are apparently a pretty new editor, but please stop reverting until consensus has been raised. Thanks,  Mr.choppers | ✎  21:28, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

I fully understand that, but the article in question is the English language article on the North American 200SX as the very first line of the article states. While the 200SX and Lucino are similar and share a similar platform, they are different both mechanically and aesthetically.

I have no qualms with the creation of a Lucino article; however replicating data from the 200SX article onto the Lucino article is inaccurate and creates confusion as they are not the same vehicle. As someone who owned, maintained, modified an actual real world example of the car in question for many years I assure you these two names are not interchangeable.

I will stop reverting the Lucino article, but I will selectively remove 200SX-specific data from it in order to maintain accuracy/clarity. I will however continue to revert the 200SX article back to the changes I have made as I spent quite some time cleaning up that article for both clarity and accuracy sake.

As I stated previously I am sitting on a pile of 200SX materials that I have been planning to "digitize" for some time now, and I would have no problems uploading them to Wikipedia for the 200SX article; but I will not bother with investing the time/energy of getting it on Wikipedia if the 200SX article is just going to get jacked up all the time. KyleFN (talk) 21:47, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

• 
  200SX
• 
  Lucino

First of all, the hatnote atop the 200SX page is easily removed. I don't know why it was put there in the first place. Secondly, there are no mechanical nor aesthetic differences between a Lucino coupe and a 200SX, aside from some minor differences that are simply market specific. Also, see WP:OWN: you ought to read it. What difference does it make if your 200SX-specific content is at a page entitled "Nissan Lucino"? "200SX" was after all just an export badge, applied at random by Nissan importers across the world. Continuing to revert will simply result in getting yourself blocked, so I would recommend not doing that. We'll give other editors a week or two to weigh in here before anything happens.  Mr.choppers | ✎  21:53, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Hatnote was placed there in 2010 by a crazy, since blocked, editor named Bull-Doser. Ill-advisedly, in my opinion.  Mr.choppers | ✎  22:01, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an international page, with articles discussing more subjects than one can imagine. Cars, are just a tip of the massive asteroid spinning helplessly in space. I realize that automobiles can be a personal source of pride, and information can sometimes be regarded as sacred. But, there is a whole wide world out there, and the Japanese car makers sell their stuff internationally. I try to bring the Japanese perspective to articles about Japanese cars, and translate Japanese into English articles on a somewhat regular basis. That said, the North American 1995-1998 B14 series Nissan 200SX is a two door 1995-1998 B14 series Nissan Sunny sedan that tried to inspire sales by using the "sexy" 200SX badge, on a front wheel drive vehicle. And everyone knows that a trully "sexy" car uses rear wheel drive, like the Nissan 300ZX. Just sayin' (Regushee (talk) 22:13, 16 May 2014 (UTC))

As stated previously, there were mechanical differences. They are well-documented in the packet of info I have from Nissan Corporate. And yes there absolutely were aesthetic differences in the two cars, a quick Google image search of the two cars will plainly illustrate these differences.

The problem is that this change creates confusion, and for no good reason. People with less knowledge on the subject who search for this particular "200SX" on Wikipedia are going to get funneled to a different car; therein lies the fundamental argument here. You two don't think these are different cars, but they are and this change will cause confusion. English-speaking North Americans are going to expect to see the car that was actually sold here, in North America.

What is the benefit of destroying the English language, North American 200SX page and merging it into a different car's (a foreign car for a foreign market that was never in the US) page? The Spanish-language and Japanese-language version of Wikipedia can contain a page that refers to the vehicle they know from their market. When considering the positives/negatives of this change I see no benefit. It can't be taking up that much hard drive space to have two separate pages for these two different cars. If anything the Lucino should be a sub-article to the main 200SX article, not the other way around.

If someone wants to make a Lucino page, I say go for it. I have no problem with that. Fill that page with data pertaining to that Japanese/Mexican vehicle with sales stats for that vehicle and photos of that vehicle, etc.

The "difference" between posting my scans/images/pdfs to the Lucino vs 200SX page is it is a total waste of time if the information isn't accurately presented. If anything my content on a Lucino page would add to the confusion even more.

I am asking that everyone respect the time, effort, work I put into the 200SX page. It comes from years of first-hand, working knowledge of this car. Simply deleting/reverting my work reverts the page to a less clear, less accurate version. If you or anyone disagrees with something I wrote then edit that thing; don't just wholesale destroy the efforts I've put into it ... that is wildly disrespectful. KyleFN (talk) 22:29, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

"there is a whole wide world out there" "Japanese car makers sell their stuff internationally" "that tried to inspire sales by using the "sexy" 200SX badge, on a front wheel drive vehicle. And everyone knows that a trully "sexy" car uses rear wheel drive, like the Nissan 300ZX. Just sayin'"

See this is what I pretty much assumed. Comments like this are condescending and rude. This is someone who doesn't like the 200SX and only wants to dump on it by f@#$ing up it's page; he has no interest in maintaining accuracy or eliminating confusion, he has an agenda here.

You don't like the 200SX, no problem, to each their own. But don't screw up my work because you simply don't like the car. Please respect the efforts I've put into the 200SX page and move on. KyleFN (talk) 23:12, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Could you please list the supposed technical and aesthetic changes? Just saying they exist does not make it so. Also, you sound as if you have not been reading anything I've said here: I'm suggesting turning Nissan 200SX into a dab page like Mazda 121, then interested readers can easily find to the proper articles for whatever rebadge they're looking for (whether it is the Silvia, the 180SX, or the Lucino). Also, you can't upload brochure scans or others' photos unless they have a free license (just trying to save you some needless stress). And, for the third or fourth time, see WP:OWN. The reason I'm reverting you is that I think that your edits are making the entries worse - that is not disrespect, just disagreement. And see WP:BRD for more. How do you reckon the Lucino should be a sub page when Nissan is a Japanese manufacturer who simply slapped the 200SX badge on a number of somewhat sporting cars over the years? And why should 200SX pertain only to the Lucino-based car when it was originally used on export models of the S10 Silvia?  Mr.choppers | ✎  22:14, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Mr. Choppers...it appears that we've disrupted a very young mans infatuation about a car. It must be his first. We are not being sensitive to KyleFN's feelings about his first car. We're not recognizing that this isn't just an article about his car, this is his "Magna Carta", and while he doesn't seem to understand that anything posted to Wikipedia becomes public posession as soon as you click the "Save Page" button, including comments on this talk page, we need to be more understanding that he is "asking that everyone respect the time, effort, work I put into the 200SX page". "It comes from years of first-hand, working knowledge of this car" and "don't just wholesale destroy the efforts I've put into it ... that is wildly disrespectful". However, this editor also stated "If you or anyone disagrees with something I wrote then edit that thing". WE DO DISAGREE with this article, and those who care to comment about this article are attempting to document to those who are mildly interested about this two-door sedan that didn't sell very well, as Nissan no longer sells a two-door sedan of the Nissan Sunny (Sentra) internationally. Ths was the last example. A moment of silence, please...Maybe Nissan should revisit the missed opportunity they had with this product, and reintroduce it, as some auto manufacturers do occasionally go "retro" and bring back an "old flame". (Regushee (talk) 23:59, 17 May 2014 (UTC))

Dude, you can seriously take your personal attacks/opinions and blow it out your ass. Neither of you are actually listening to what I have to say. By disrespecting the work I've put in here and completely ignoring my working knowledge of a car that (I'm assuming) neither of you have ever owned/worked on/modded, you're basically just a couple of snarky vandals.

If you WERE actually editing and changing details that would be one thing, but you're going in there and wholesale deleting/changing/undoing sections I cleaned up/added to. You're just making the article more confusing. Junking it up with information that doesn't pertain to the subject at hand, etc doesn't improve an article on the 200SX. YES, I know there was a car called Lucino out there in the Mexican/Japanese markets. But this is about the English-speaking wikipedia page for the Nissan 200SX. Last I checked the top three English-speaking countries were the U.S. (and we have something like 310,000,000 citizens), the U.K., and Canada. A quick glance at Wikipedia's information on the English language shows 360,000,000 native speakers so the U.S. comprises, what 70 to 85% of those English-speakers? (assuming, of course that not everyone here speaks English, but even on the low side it can't be lower than 80% here)

So please explain to me the logic in dumping this information for the 200SX onto a page for a car that never existed in either the US or Canada?

This is what I'm talking about, there's absolutely no logical reason why this change would be made, unless your goal is to just screw with the page (aka Vandalism). It creates confusion, instead of clarification.

But you guys go ahead and do whatever it is you're going to do because I've argued my points logically and frankly I've pretty much lost interest in this thing. I was working on this during my breaks between projects, but it's clearly a pointless endeavor when you're just going to vandalise the page. I'm done trying to help you understand the same points over and over again; either you get it or you don't, and that's that. This entire discussion has been utterly asinine and I have other things I could spend my limited free time on. So go on, knock yourselves out, and good luck in whatever the hell it is you're doing here. KyleFN (talk) 01:13, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

The information contributed to 200SX currently isn't very detailed. If this car was raced, who chose it? Was it entered into any race anywhere and if so, what position did it take against other contenders? BMW 3 series? Camaros? Mitusbishi EVOs? Where is the insightful data from the Nissan engineers who spent countless hours investing their lives into the shape of the front fenders? What makes this particular model sold in the USA so wildly fantastic? Did any one who is recognized internationally own a 200SX? Did Brad Pitt have one? Justin Bieber? Lindsay Lohan? The article as it is is barely a stub! Consolidating the information into one location is the goal for this article, with the multitude of names, region-specific equipment, turbocharged engines, sound systems and other optional equipment not offered in North America. But chest-thumping and proudly proclaiming that Nissan chose to recycle a name, that being 200SX, is a matter of national pride for the English-speaking world, apparently.(Regushee (talk) 01:49, 18 May 2014 (UTC))

• Support: retention of Lucino as the primary page and the conversion of 200SX to a DAB page. OSX (talk • contributions) 12:54, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
• Support: retention of Lucino as the primary page and the conversion of 200SX to a DAB page. Makes perfect sense as Nissan tosses the 200SX badge on quite a few vehicles (Regushee (talk) 15:57, 19 May 2014 (UTC))
• Support, as original proposer. Good job, btw, might help minimize some of the confusion created by anarchistic market specific badging.  Mr.choppers | ✎  19:57, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Redirect

Why does "200SX" redirect to whatever this shitbox car is, and not to the actual 200SX? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.220.121.144 (talk) 23:55, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Fixed. OSX (talk • contributions) 04:33, 23 March 2015 (UTC)