Talk:Sheila Allen (English actress): Difference between revisions

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There are multiple references in Wikipedia to this lady, most of which had been wrongly linked to the American actress of the same name. Sheila Allen has a dinstinguished stage career as a Shakespearean actress and that aspect will be built up. Perhaps it would be better to flag this as a "stub"? LymeRegis (talk) 17:21, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Flagged as a stub. He's Gone Mental 09:29, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 27 March 2015

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– citizenship is a definitive measure while a decision whether to say if someone is English, Scottish or Welsh is subjective. In my trawl through I only found one actor disambiguated as Welsh.

There are 26 Wikipedia articles with the disambiguation ".. (British actress)" and 35 articles with the disambiguation ".. (British actor)".

I first got to thinking about this issue in response to reference to Brittanica articles such as:

Sir Sean Connery British actor - Sir Sean Connery, original name Thomas Connery (born Aug. 25, 1930, Edinburgh, Scot.), Scottish-born actor whose popularity in James Bond spy thrillers led to a successful, decades-long film career.

Although most Britannica articles seem to be subtitled in this way I later also found:

Richard Burton Welsh actor - Richard Burton, original name Richard Walter Jenkins, Jr. (born November 10, 1925, Pontrhydyfen, Wales—died August 5, 1984, Geneva, Switzerland), Welsh stage and motion-picture actor noted for his portrayals of highly intelligent and articulate men who are world-weary, cynical, or self-destructive.

None-the-less I think that this may be a good way to standardise article titles. In certain cases there may be nothing to verify whether a person identifies as a member of any of the constituent countries of the UK and yet they all have British citizenship. Greg Kaye 09:10, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is a perennial issue, see Wikipedia:Nationality of people from the United Kingdom. My opinion is that they should all be denoted as British. Mr Stephen (talk) 10:11, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, although for politicians related to the UK and european parliaments I'd prefer ".. (UK politicians)". This gives reference to the country they represent/seek to represent. In the case of disambiguated titles I think it is worth presenting "British" in the disambiguation and then to present more local details in the article content. Greg Kaye 11:57, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Rename all It's time to put an end to UK exceptionalism on this sort of matter. We don't generally drill down for other countries. Timrollpickering (talk) 13:59, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Wait - if there's a hung parliament in a few weeks the SNP may ask for another referendum. Also Richard Lynch (Welsh actor) is an actor on Welsh-language TV, looks very odd to be "British" In ictu oculi (talk) 18:24, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Picking three at random, they all state their nationality in the intro - "Harold Goodwin (22 October 1917 – 3 June 2004) was an English actor", "Richard Lynch (born 1965) is a Southern Welsh television and film actor" and "Richard Wilson OBE (born Ian Carmichael Wilson; 9 July 1936) is a Scottish actor". IE, not British actor. I think MOS:IDENTITY applies here. I would say I'm an English editor, not a British editor. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 19:16, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Lugnuts. Additionally, "British" is too vague when specifics are known. Snuggums (talk / edits) 19:24, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Lugnuts' rationale. MOS:IDENTITY needs to be considered here. If any of them are going to be moved, they should be addressed independently. Nymf (talk) 19:25, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User:GregKaye, to be honest when the UK has one united British football team in the one sport that anyone in UK actually cares about then maybe. The fact is British people are often first English, Welsh or Scottish - including the Queen, I in Scotland II in England. So let's leave it. I mean "(British footballer)"? that would be nonsense. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:44, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Lugnuts' rationale. If someone is from Scotland, England or Wales it is hardly subjective to state that in the title of their article. MarnetteD|Talk 20:04, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In ictu oculi Every person on the list, if are travellers and if they don't use another passport, will use a British one. The one single anchor point that they have in common is their citizenship. I am not making suggestions here but even in regard to football see: List of England international footballers born outside England. Each person will regardless be a British citizen and then choose their allegiance. "British" may be vague but other parameters can be uncertain. Even in football there may players born in one constituent country who have always played for teams in other places, who have hardly lived in the constituent country of their birth and/or who have parents from other places. The same equally true of people in other spheres of activity. Greg Kaye 20:12, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Opposed per Lugnuts and MarnetteD's comment. Lapadite (talk) 00:13, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. At the very least, they should be accessible from "British" if no other Brit shares their name -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 04:49, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The purpose of the information in brackets is simply disambiguation and would not even be there were it not for the fact that there is someone else with the same name, therefore provided it is accurate I don't see that it is necessary to rename the articles. Sealman (talk) 07:35, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Revision as of 06:20, 28 March 2015 edit GregKaye (talk \| contribs) Extended confirmed users 18,994 edits →Requested move 27 March 2015 ← Previous edit		Revision as of 07:46, 28 March 2015 edit undo Sealman (talk \| contribs) Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers 11,230 edits Add comment Next edit →
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	*'''Support''' per nom. At the very least, they should be accessible from "British" if no other Brit shares their name -- [[Special:Contributions/65.94.43.89\|65.94.43.89]] ([[User talk:65.94.43.89\|talk]]) 04:49, 28 March 2015 (UTC)		*'''Support''' per nom. At the very least, they should be accessible from "British" if no other Brit shares their name -- [[Special:Contributions/65.94.43.89\|65.94.43.89]] ([[User talk:65.94.43.89\|talk]]) 04:49, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

			*'''Oppose''' The purpose of the information in brackets is simply disambiguation and would not even be there were it not for the fact that there is someone else with the same name, therefore provided it is accurate I don't see that it is necessary to rename the articles. [[User:Sealman\|Sealman]] ([[User talk:Sealman\|talk]]) 07:35, 28 March 2015 (UTC)