User:LEBOLTZMANN2/sandbox

Mr. Fink, while evolution is beyond questioning, the particular article, 7.3 Violation of the second law of thermodynamics, is not.

In the illustration of this article, it is claimed: “The second law of thermodynamics applies only to isolated systems.” This is immediately contradicted in the article when it is expressed that the law applies to all, that would be isolated, closed and open systems: …”the second law of thermodynamics. Though the law applies to all systems”…

There is no basis for asserting the second law applies ‘’’only’’’ to isolated and not also to closed systems. “Creationists argue that evolution violates this physical law by requiring a decrease in entropy, or disorder, over time. This claim is based on ‘’’a manifestation of the law only applicable to isolated systems.”

By claiming an isolated system effect only, the second law is relegated to being an idealization or a model. From Wikipedia, Isolated systems: “Because of the requirement of enclosure, and the near ubiquity of gravity, strictly and ideally isolated systems do not actually occur in experiments or in nature. They are thus hypothetical concepts only. Classical thermodynamics is usually presented as postulating the existence of isolated systems. It is also usually presented as the fruit of experience. Obviously, no experience has been reported of an ideally isolated system.”… “The concept of an isolated system can serve as a useful model approximating many real-world situations. It is an acceptable idealization used in constructing mathematical models of certain natural phenomena.”

The article creates a straw man by ignoring open systems since the law applies to all systems. Creationists could just as easily argue that evolution is an anomaly in open systems. The Mathematical Intelligencer quotation presents the paradox. “The fact is that natural forces routinely lead to decreases in entropy. Water freezes into ice” by energy removed from the open system “and fertilised” eggs turn into babies” by energy added to the open system. With both open systems in the same Sun-Earth-space system, natural forces routinely lead to quite different results.LEBOLTZMANN2 (talk) 23:04, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

That's all WP:OR. Find a reliable, published source that backs up your assertions or drop the issue. Rwenonah (talk) 17:30, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

We're doing this again, with this same editor? Dbrodbeck (talk) 17:40, 23 July 2015 (UTC)