Talk:Malaysia Airlines Flight 370

Debris confirmed to be from MH370

On 5 August 2015, it has been confirmed that the missing parts indeed belonged to MH370. 17:59, 5 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.33.180.117 (talk)

Should we open the debate about "missing" versus a variant now that there is hard evidence the plane is indeed not missing? Garchy (talk) 18:01, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

The plane is missing, unless they've found the crash site. I mean, we've known all along that it crashed somewhere in the Indian Ocean. Just wait and see if sources stop using the term "missing". Geogene (talk) 18:07, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

The aircraft, minus a small part, is still missing. No need to change anything yet. Mjroots (talk) 18:08, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Let's wait until the main section of the plane and bodies are found then we can change the article. 97.85.113.113 (talk) 18:54, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

• Suggest summary infobox be changed to: "Unexplained disappearance and crash
  Plane debris found on Reunion Island, search for main wreckage ongoing". The media still refers to the flight as missing (which is true in the sense the main wreckage has not been located). Thoughts? - Mailer Diablo 18:57, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Keep it as missing till more sources are available. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 19:01, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, a discrepancy is not agreement or confirmation. I'm pretty sure it will work out - but Malaysia is jumping the gun. We don't have to.--Varkman (talk) 10:15, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

It should remain as "missing" until the fuselage is found. AHeneen (talk) 00:10, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

The French have confirmed the flaperon is from MH370. By definition, confirming a part of the aircraft means it is not missing. It has partially been discovered, but this is now fact the aircraft does lie at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.44.102 (talk) 16:27, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

By all means show us the WP:RS source that says "the aircraft does lie at the bottom of the Indian Ocean". Martinevans123 (talk) 16:31, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Because that's where the flaperon was found, based on water current drift models, the current search area is where the aircraft is. Or are you idiotically suggesting that only the flaperon fell off inflight and the aircraft continued to land somewhere? Please put the conspiracy theories to rest already. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.44.102 (talk) 17:41, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

@72.79.44.102 If there is still a "current search area" as you state above - then the plane is still missing.Andrewgprout (talk) 17:57, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

All my conspiracy theories have been locked away, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:00, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Missing? I'd say it's "partially found." It's time to drop this whole missing tag. A piece has been recovered and positively identified from the aircraft. Based on the water drift models for the Indian Ocean, the piece was exactly where it was supposed to be after 16 months. The plane isn't missing, it's crashed, and now there's one piece of concrete evidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.44.102 (talk) 18:34, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

One flapperon does not an aircraft make. But rather foolish to make a wing part out of concrete? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:40, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Debris confirmed

It's confirmed that the debris is indeed from MH370 Ayub407 (talk) 19:05, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, we know. Geogene (talk) 19:06, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Speaking of debris, I think the Maldives debris examination is noteworthy because it is part of the search for the plane. I vote that it be mentioned regardless of the outcome, and I promise to keep the relevant section of the MN 370 page updated as news is released re: the Maldives phase.TH1980 (talk) 22:48, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

No, it's not notable, and some of the better sources that cover it say it's probably not related. Should be removed from article unless it gets confirmation. Geogene (talk) 23:11, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough.TH1980 (talk) 23:37, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Good call re: Maldives debris. It appears that these items are from a barge that sunk in February 2015, not MH 370: http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/mh370-debris-cant-be-on-reunion-island-and-the-maldives-at-the-same-time-says-expert/story-e6frfq80-1227477749825 TH1980 (talk) 17:08, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

If these items are indeed from the barge, isn't this worthy of mention as a false lead in the search?TH1980 (talk) 04:03, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Not really - not unless there was truly some real expectation that they were from the said aeroplane. Are you going to mention every piece of potential wreckage in the Indian Ocean, what makes this special and relevant?Andrewgprout (talk) 06:28, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

I take it that recording every false lead re: MH 370 debris would be cloying for this page? If so, I understand.TH1980 (talk) 18:10, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

I just updated the section about debris to mention the latest developments from Reunion. The French claim a large amount of debris has been found on the island itself, but not out at sea.TH1980 (talk) 20:39, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

This page is frequently vandalised of

i suggest semi-protecting it — Preceding unsigned comment added by Admiral Alvin (talk • contribs) 09:04, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 Request placed. KDS4444^Talk 12:56, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Page now semi-protected for a period of one week... which I suspect will not be enough, so please speak up again if you notice vandalism happening after that and we can arrange for a more extended period of protection. Thanks for making the suggestion. KDS4444^Talk 06:17, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Just for the record

In the Popular Culture section, I put in a sentence backed by 2 citations (more are available), pointing out that Billy Graham's daughter had mentioned the sense of 'where have all the people gone?' caused by MH370's disappearance as a possible small scale foretaste of what it would feel like being left behind after the Rapture, and adding a source giving secular criticism of her view.

Earlier an Indian editor, Subbush, had posted an Indian view, backed by citation an Indian citation, which was also the only thing in the entire article that mentions conspiracy theories.

They both got deleted by MilborneOne (who, incidentally, is also an admin, and it's a bit scary risking disputes with admins) with the explanation "removed recent as they do not really add anything of note". I restored them both, explaining in the case of the Indian section 'restoring "spawned numerous conspiracy theories" - these are a large and notable part of MH370's effect on popular culture; many RS articles report on them)' - I would also have mentioned WP:BIAS if I were doing it again.

These then both got deleted again by Andrewgprout with the explanations "this is not the right article for this discussion" for the conspiracies and Indian perception, and "not really appropriate for this article" for the Rapture bit.

So apparently, despite WP:BIAS, a couple of Western editors have decided that it is not "of note" nor "the right article" to mention in the popular culture section that it spawned cosnpiracy theories and to give an Indian perspective on something that happened in the Indian Ocean. Apparently merely mentioning these constitutes a misplaced "discussion" (what "discussion"?).

Apparently it is also not "of note" nor "appropriate" to mention that it generated an (admittedly relatively minor) religious v secular spat, thereby seemingly playing its own small part in the Culture War that is one of the dominant factors in US and world culture at present.

So it would seem that the only appropriate thing to appear in a Popular Culture section is a long list of free advertisements for Western books and documentaries.

However, life is far too short to risk wasting it on potentially endless "angels dancing on pins" arguments about the precise applicability of inherently subjective notions like "of note" and "appropriate" (which is a large part of the reason why I'm now semi-retired from Wikipedia, and I suspect is at least part of the reason why many other ediotors leave), and indeed I've arguably already wasted far more time than it's worth by writing this. So having recorded my dissent here "for the record", I'm now giving up and taking the article off my watchlist in a possibly futile attempt to try to minimize the risk of getting sucked into wasting more time on the matter.

But if somebody else wishes to take up the fight on behalf of either or both these items (both of which improve the article, at least in my view), I wish them the best of luck. Tlhslobus (talk) 11:54, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Nobody is stopping you having a discussion on the conspiracy and christian additions, conspiracy stuff is already in a daughter article so we dont need to include it here, I am still struggling to see what that has to do with it being added by an Indian editor or Indian view as India is not mentioned in the piece at all and the relevance of "western editors" whatever they are. Just to note that being an admin doesnt stop you being a editor with views and opinions, it also doesnt stop you being wrong and being challenged when editing, being an admin is not really relevant or important in these discussions. I fail to see the relevance of comments by a christian evangelist to the accident, wikipedia is not for collecting everybodies thought on the subject, it is not what an encyclopedia is for. If you think that the other mentions in popular cultural are not needed as they are advertising then that can be discussed, I for one dont think that tv documentaries unless they raise new points of relevance to the accident are that notable, Mayday for example has run out of notable accidents to televise so will make a program on any accident however trivia so the fact they create a program is not that important in the scheme of things. MilborneOne (talk) 12:16, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I think Tlhslobus brings up an interesting point. Has popular culture been defined here in a meaningful way? I think a few of the points of discussion he brought up would colloquially be referred to in the US as culture, but not pop culture, which has more to do with mass media, arts, and entertainment, in my understanding of the term. Perhaps popular culture means something different in India than it does in the US? I think religions are a cultural matter, but in my usage, not popular culture. Do we have a clean definition of what popular culture actually means? It would help make things uniform and remove the subjectivity described by Tlhslobus. Subjective evaluation of notability seems to be our biggest hangup as WP editors, and maybe more guidance is needed for popular culture content in general. This article is obviously a behemoth, and less is probably best, but ubiquitous comments like "not really appropriate for this article" say nothing but one person's opinion. Reasons and precedents help, as do guidelines. I don't know specifically what happened in the case of Tlhslobus or the context of the quote I just cited, and I'm not trying to re-argue that case, but I think we have all seen our share of deleted content with empty, subjective comments like that.

Saying simply that an incident has spawned conspiracy theories, with no discussion, just a link, acknowledges their widespread existence and clearly sends people to the appropriate place for that discussion. That seems reasonable to me. Is the 9/11 Truther movement a part of popular culture? Ufology? Cryptozoology? IMO, those might be good comparisons for whether such a statement belongs in the pop culture section.Dcs002 (talk) 03:34, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

The section name "In popular culture" is common on Wikipedia, although I can understand the trouble with defining "popular culture." Although it is not a policy/guideline, see Wikipedia:"In popular culture" content. In this article, I think the issue is due weight. Plus, the article Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 unofficial disappearance theories‎ exists, which can contain similar content. AHeneen (talk) 20:30, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. Yes, a paragraph on conspiracy theories in Pop culture would, as you say, give undue weight, I totally agree. Certainly the conspiracy theories among relatives of survivors are an important part of the story, but that is well covered in the Aftermath section. Again, I'm not advocating for the inclusion of conspiracy theories here. I'm just looking for a definition of what is pop culture in WP. Maybe my search is misguided though, because undue weight and notability can already be used to cull such content when necessary, and maybe it's important in some cases to let ambiguity exist to account for cultural differences among Wikipedians, if that makes sense. I also hadn't noticed that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 unofficial disappearance theories‎ is already linked twice in the article - in places that were too prominent for me to notice I guess. Dcs002 (talk) 10:25, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

GEOMAR calculation of wing flaperon origin

There is a new map of the GEOMAR calculation of the wing flaperon origin:

Feel free to use it. --MrAurum (talk) 16:22, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the map! As anyone can see the map shows that MH370 strange officially proposed trajectory (leading to nowhere - why would pilot/terrorist fly from Indonesia past Australia to Antarctica if there was no fuel enough to reach it?) has nothing to do with wing flaperon origin. It's also interesting who and when will at the end officially confess that the strange officially proposed trajectory of MH370 is well within JORN and Christmas Island radar's range and these radars detected nothing (or detected something?) during 8th of March 2014? KOT-TOK (talk) 04:07, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Confirmation of MH370 parts found

I added to the page that the flaperon was confirmed to be the part being from MH370. This gives closure to many. I initially saw this info on the MH370 Search page and am surprised it is not here as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_for_Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370#Search_timeline