Talk:Menelik II

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive

Needs an infobox, but otherwise a B.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 02:33, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Menelik II

People here tend to add too much information of other peoples into this section , If you want to write about the life of Lij Iyasu or Emperor Tewodros , THEN PLEASE DO IT IN THEIR OWN WIKI SECTIONS and NOT here !! Please keep this section clean !! Understandable Science 20:03 7 August 2010

Legacy!

Somebody wrote about pan-africanism and claiming Rameses II might be black here in the Menelik II article - this article is about Menelik II not Rameses II .... deleted. Please keep this section clean - and think before you write !!! Understandable Science18:42, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup!

This article really needs to be cleaned up -- ie. get rid of the (????), split it up into a few sections, etc. --68.68.234.19 21:30, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Name

The name was decided to be "Menelek" in May 2005 and moved to that page, but "Menelik" is much more common (~568,000 google hits vs. ~30,700). I propose that we move it back to "Menelik II of Ethiopia" as this is the more common name. Yom 02:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Sanity is not a matter of statistics (George Orwell). How about using a scientifically/linguistically supported name instead of some traditional popular rubbish? --BjKa (talk) 13:55, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Whichever name you want to call him by, it would be nice to have a consistent spelling throughout the article. I currently found "Menelik", "Menelek" and "Menilek". And more importantly: The introduction needs a listing which alternate spellings are/were in use, so we know what is a typo and what is not. --BjKa (talk) 13:55, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Now the correct name of the Emperor of Ethiopia is a matter to be determined "scientifically"? This is why they say people who crow "scientifically" about everything are getting too big for their britches nowadays, like they are drunk. The term "science" should be reserved strictly for matters where the scientific method has been employed. Anything else is a misapplication. "Scientifically" isn't just a big word to impress people with that makes you sound like you are right. There is no controversy about how his name is written or pronounced in Amharic. There's only one way to pronounce it in Amharic. And friend, that is not "traditional popular rubbish." Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 15:18, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Disputed

Though I remain skeptical, I did find a source for the claim about Menelik and the electric chair. The Book of Lists, in a section titled "The People's Almanac's 15 Favorite Oddities of All Time". Number 3 is "The Abyssinian Electric Chair" (though it makes no mention about one of the chairs going to Lique Mequas Abate). I'll add a citation to the article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 01:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I have to say I'd hoped for something a tad more scholarly when I placed the original "citation needed" notice - guess we'll just have to keep looking. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mikedash (talk • contribs) 12:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC).

Just to add, I believe I heard this story on QI as well. Ryan4314 (talk) 10:08, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah yes, here it is (Last bullet point in Elephant in the Room 1) Ryan4314 (talk) 10:15, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

None of which really addresses the question of whether the story is a reliable one. It isn't, or at least cannot be traced back before some dubious 1930s reporting. See here. Mikedash (talk) 12:23, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

religion

some one know what was his religion?
thank you —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.232.44.131 (talk) 20:45, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

He was Ethiopian Orthodox. 165.2.186.10 17:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Did he eat the Book of Kings?

So this is a weird question, but there's a song by the Bastard Fairies that contains the following lyrics:

There once was a man
Who thought that if he ate
All the pages of the Bible
He could kill most anything.
In 1913, he died of a stroke
When he tried to eat
The Book of Kings.

The video says this is true and happened in Ethiopia in 1913. Subsequent searches on the Web say it was Menelik II who did this. But if true it seems fairly notable and I'd expect to see it on the main page. So...anyone know if this is a true story? --Replysixty (talk) 22:08, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Of course not. He had the first stroke in 1906 and another in 1907 and his health continued to decline until his death in 1913. He didn't die from eating paper. Besides, if it were true, it would have been made of parchment, which isn't exactly toxic. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:40, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Uh, that URL you found is a post in someone's blog, which provides no source for this statement. While it is possible that someone close to Menelik was feeding him pages from a Bible because she/he thought it would keep him alive, there is no mention of this unusual practice in either of the two important works that cover Menelik's life -- Harold Marcus' The Life and Times of Menelik II or Chris Prouty's Empress Taytu and Menelik II. In fact, Marcus describes Menelik as being an intelligent and curious man, which leads me to conclude that he would have engaged in such superstition only if compelled to by a confidant or other close acquaintance. Then again, from about 1907 on, Menelik was in a vegetative state, brought on by years of bad living & the effects of circa-1900 medical practices, so whatever he thought at that point is unknowable. -- llywrch (talk) 07:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

There are earlier references to this that are not bloggish, including The Idiot's Guide to the Bible and The Emperor Who Ate the Bible. However, I couldn't find any scholarly references to this story being true. I too would be interested in knowing whether there are any. Ironwolf (talk) 01:31, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry for the blog link- it was the last of the URLs I found while searching, so I just copy/pasted that one. My interest was whether or not this was an apocryphal story, and if so- I wonder the origin and why it's so widely held... -Replysixty (talk) 18:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

There's an interesting disconnect going on here, as all the modern secondary sources cited - virtually all of them unreferenced collections of oddities and anecdotes - assume that the "Book of Kings" must be the Old Testament book and so connect the story to the idea of obtaining a cure by eating the Bible. I'd say it was much more likely that the original (whatever it was) suggested Menelik ate the Kebra Nagast, or Ethiopian Book of the Glory of Kings, the country's 14th century national epic. Like Llywrch, though, I'm guessing the tale is apocryphal. It doesn't sound like the historical Menelik at all. Mikedash (talk) 15:39, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Hmm ..Interesting story - but I deem it an urban legend . It was mentioned in Abraham Verghese´s novel : "cutting stone" a few years ago , and I believe the reason, it is so widespread, is that the story figured as a trivia fact in Weekly World News, in the 31. August 1993 issue : Here is a photo of the article : http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8443/menelikeatingbibles.jpg However I have never found a contemporary source stating it , and Menelik in his later years was so weak and paralyzed after his strokes, that he could only sit up with support, not being able to speak - and had to be fed by others ( mainly with champagne and raw eggs !! ) - so there is no chance that he could actively have taken a bible and eat it - he was paralyzed ............ Funny story - but definitely unconfirmed !!!!!!

Understandable science (talk) 15:51, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be honestly surprised if that was the vector for this apocryphal tale. Weekly World News is a parody of the tabloid genre with its fictitious stories, which are intended more to entertain by their outlandishness than to be believed as truth. Its audience are either hip to its this, or so stupid &/or uneducated as to have a negligible impact on the rest of society. -- llywrch (talk) 16:02, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

The oldest reference through Google Books is from 1981. The book is The People's Almanac Presents the Book of Lists #2, Issue 2. I cannot tell if this incident is referenced as I do not own this book and thus it is only accessible to me without much effort via Google Books. Here's the passage in question:

1. EMPEROR MENELIK II

He was one of the greatest rulers in African history and the creator of modern Ethiopia. Born in 1844, he was captured during an enemy raid and held prisoner for 10 years. Escaping, Menelik declared himself head of the province of Shewa. He began conquering neighboring kingdoms and developed them into modern Ethiopia with himself as emperor. When Italy tried to take over Ethiopia, Menelik's army met and crushed the Italians at the Battle of Aduwa. This victory, as well as well as his efforts to modernize Ethiopia (schools, telephones, railroads), made Menelik world-famous. The emperor had one little-known eccentricity. Whenever he was feeling ill, he would eat a few pages of the Bible, insisting that this always restored his health. One day in December, 1913, recovering from a stroke and feeling extremely ill he had the entire Book of Kings torn from an Egyptian edition of the Bible, ate every page of it — and died. Too much of the Good Book had proved a bad thing.

So much rubbish in this section. Nevertheless there is one tradition among othodox chritians even now: if someone is sick you place a bible or other holy text under the pillow of the bed. Maybe from this custom the bible eating nonsense started. --Altaye (talk) 17:47, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Lead

--Benjo76 (talk) 02:51, 6 July 2009 (UTC) The lead section of the article is not in accordance with Wikipedia: Featured article criteria. Summary regarding important events in the life of the king, for instance; Battle of Adwa, has to be presented.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.122.17.67 (talk) 17:14, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Controversial Sources?

The following has been deleted twice, now. What is the controversy about the sources? Are they all not authoritative, or is someone just disliking the content?

During the conquet of the Oromo, the Ethiopian Army carried mass atrocities against the Oromo population including mass mutilation, mass killings and large scale slavery.(referenced as Conquest, Tyranny, and Ethnocide against the Oromo: A Historical Assessment of Human Rights Conditions in Ethiopia, ca. 1880s–2002 by Mohammed Hassen, Northeast African Studies Volume 9, Number 3, 2002 (New Series))(referenced as Genocidal violence in the making of nation and state in Ethiopia by Mekuria Bulcha, African Sociological Review)(referenced as Conquest, Tyranny, and Ethnocide against the Oromo: A Historical Assessment of Human Rights Conditions in Ethiopia, ca. 1880s–2002 by Mohammed Hassen, Northeast African Studies Volume 9, Number 3, 2002 (New Series)) Some estimates for the number of people killed as a result of the conquest go into the millions.(referenced as A. K. Bulatovich Ethiopia Through Russian Eyes: Country in Transition, 1896-1898, translated by Richard Seltzer, 2000)(referenced as Conquest, Tyranny, and Ethnocide against the Oromo: A Historical Assessment of Human Rights Conditions in Ethiopia, ca. 1880s–2002 by Mohammed Hassen, Northeast African Studies Volume 9, Number 3, 2002 (New Series))(referenced as Power and Powerlessness in Contemporary Ethiopia by Alemayehu Kumsa, Charles University in Prague) Large scale atrocities were also committed against the Dizi people and the people of the Kaficho kingdom.(referenced as Power and Powerlessness in Contemporary Ethiopia by Alemayehu Kumsa, Charles University in Prague)(referenced as Haberland, "Amharic Manuscript", pp. 241f)

LTC (Ret.) David J. Cormier (talk) 13:45, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

The Name Eritrea

There is a movement by some Eritreans (a country formed 25 years ago) to rewrite history and this article looks to have fallen victim of that effort. It has carried lots of inaccuracies in it. For instance: . Menelik never refered to the area by its modern name Eritrea. Italians later named the area Eritrea, after the name of the sea, the Eritrean (red) sea. Menelik also never refered to the people as "foreigners". There is lots of inaccuracies in the article. It has to be rewritten by someone else with a good knowledge of the area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eldad8 (talk • contribs) 08:02, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Wrong reference

hi Puhleec how are you, then the quote is written that said that menelik "The territories north of the Merab Melash (modern Eritrea) do not belong to nor are under my rule. I am the Emperor of Abyssinia. The lands Referred to as Eritrea is not peopled by Abyssinians, they are Adals, Bejas, and Tigres. Abyssinia will defend her territories but it will not fight for foreign lands of Eritrea Which is to my knowledge. "

the reference must be verifiable and authoritative the reference in question is Geschichte Afrikas Vol. 6 (1905), p.455-500 Institut für Weltgeschichte Presse which does not mention at all what is on wikipedia is a wrong--Mulugheta alula roma (talk) 22:32, 13 September 2015 (UTC)