Talk:Ultimates

See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics#Ultimates' naming for a discussion on the naming of individual characters' articles in the Ultimate Marvel continuity. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:50, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

Publishing Schedule

The series was first published in 2001, and continues to be published, albeit very sporadically. In theory, the series is monthly, although in practice it has become a quarterly publication, at best.

The series has been plagued by irradic publishing still, Ultimates 2, issue 10, was a month behind schedule (probably to appear early next month), and eleven is late. ~LinkMaster

Ultimate Avengers Movie

Can't found info on it, online ! Help !--Brown Shoes22 18:22, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

• Add Staring. Info out of Wizard 171 The Comics Magazine Jan/2006 pg 112 Copyright or not ?--Brown Shoes22 16:47, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Adding info regarding a second film should be done using SOME level of citation. thanks. ThuranX 06:49, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Ultimates 2 Arc 2 Heading

I noticed the comment asking everyone to hold off from contributing on an individual issue basis, so that it could be done after the arcs completion to provide a more concise description of events. While that makes perfect sense, should the sub-section heading be on the page if it is going to be empty in the mean-time? --Gallaghp 11:05, 29th August (GMT)

The Ultimates?

Surely this should be at The Ultimates, since it's the title of a work of that name? I'll move if if there are no objections (and otherwise, I'll list it at WP:RM. Alai 04:45, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I object, since it's the article about the team, and the standard for comic book teams is for there to be no "The" in the title (indeed, I moved this from The Ultimates to Ultimates). - SoM 14:32, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree this should be at "The Ultimates". While SoM's argument makes sense, this article is equally about the comic book too, in fact the opening paragraph is exclusively about the comic book. The comic book is called "The Ultimates", whereas other comics are called e.g. "Ultimate X-Men", not "The Ultimate X-Men", so they are in the correct positions without "The" at the front of their names.rst20xx 13:59, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

EDIT: Although having said that I've just gone through and fixed all the links linking to The Ultimates instead of Ultimates. rst20xx 14:05, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

EDIT 2: Can we have some kind of vote on this? rst20xx 12:05, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with rst20xx that the article should be at "The Ultimates." Is there a standarized voting procedure on Wikipedia? Lannon 04:44, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I think it should be at The Ultimates. Iron Ghost 23:29, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

The indicia just says "Ultimates" for v1 and "Ultimates 2" for v2. No "The". - SoM 23:43, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Taken from Wikipedia:Naming conventions (definite and indefinite articles at beginning of name). If the name of the article is the title of a work, an official name, or another proper name then do or do not include "the", "a" or "an" in the name, according to the following rule of thumb. If the definite or indefinite article article would be capitalized in running text, then include it at the beginning of the page name. Otherwise, do not include it at the beginning of the page name. "The Ultimates" is the title of the work and whenever the work in particular is referenced in the article it should be referred to as "The Ultimates". This article is about the work, the comic book series, more than the team. Hence I am moving this page from "Ultimates" to "The Ultimates" where it should stay unless someone can show me evidence to the contrary. --Randomengine 16:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

File:Ultimates13indicia.jpg File:Ultimates2indicia.jpg

And, indeed, if we're going by "work" rather than "team" (the latter being my preference), the Ultimates 2 material needs to be hived off to an Ultimates 2 page (it's explicitly "Ultimates 2", intending to mimic a film sequel titling ala Spider-Man 2, rather than Ultimates Vol. 2, as you'll note...). Moving back... - SoM 02:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Having just gone through this with The Top, I can assure you that 'The Ultimates' is NOT enough to require the cahnge in locations. The article should remain at 'Ultimates'. Wiki's conventions on naming pages are clear regarding this, going so far as to cite Joker VS. The Joker as an example, citing JOKER as the correct title. Please make additions ot the material instead of bickering about something so clearly stated in the Wikiconventions.ThuranX 03:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Just "Ultimates" seems to imply that the article is about the Ultimates universe. "The Ultimates" should be used. BlueMech

"Coalition members" in Ultimates 2 #9

I'm not as keen to spotting old Marvel characters as some, so if someone who has issue nine could please loosely identify the unnamed five other members of the anti-Ultimates team? I'm sure someone can recognize the center character from Captain America history, but remember, he was addressed as "Colonel". Crimson Dynamo was also named, and even though the Abomination wasn't, it's a safe bet by appearances. --Godhumanmonster 02:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I believe the characters represent a long forgotten Marvel group called the Supreme Soviets. Comprised of the Red Guardian (husband to Black Widow), Perun (A slavic god of Lightning and Thunder, know to carry an axe in the past), Crimson Dynamo III, Ursa Major (who can change into a bear), Vostok (an android) and Fantasia. They primarily appeared in the Daredevil and Black Widow run I believe. Members of the group went on to become the Soviet Super Soldiers, who would appear in Iron Man 109. Their nationalities will probably be changed for use in the Ultimates.

I believe that in Issue 9 that the one with the staff who talks to Loki is the Ultimate version of the Red Skull (hence the emblem on his chest). Abomination and Crimson Dynamo , the woman with the horns is rumoured to be Ultimate Gargoyle, the guy with the hammer and sickle is unknown as of yet, suspected to be either Perun or Vanguard. The other two I don't know about.

No. the Red Guardian was killed in a battle with Captain America in Russia when they went to retrieve The Vision. He'd sewn his suit from Human skins, but that was clearly the Ultimate Red Guardian.ThuranX 01:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

It's possible to have multiple characters with the same name. Marvel has done that before. Also, the Ultimate Red Guardian encountered in Ultimate Nightmare was an experiment that was never finished and that was abandoned when the soviet employers stopped paying the bills. It is not unthinkable that they would start up a new project capable of destroying Captain America after he was found alive. The fact that they have already encountered one Red Guardian does not rule out the chance of them encountering another. (Remember that S.H.I.E.L.D. is also trying to build more Captain America's) Robje 07:43, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

fair enough. Please start signing your posts though?ThuranX 20:21, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

The Lizard

Recently, the Lizard was added to the list of villans being held in the Triskelion. Can anybody conferm this (ie what issue of what)? I know he was arrested after the events of UCarnage in USpider-Man, but did they send him to the Triskelion? JQF 23:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Conners's powers don't have a normal trigger so unless he was tested for genetic anamolies or something I don't think he would be in a supervillain prison. The upcoming Ultimate Clone Saga might shed some more answers about his incarceration.--TylerXKJ 03:12, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, he went to the police non the SHIELD, NOBODY knows about him being The Lizard save Peter, they couldn't incarcerate him for that. I'd take the lizard out, even of they arrest him for the "clone" creation it doesn't make sense being incarcerated with the other illegal mutates. There's the possibility that he confessed to also being the Lizard but we really can't assume that...

Deathlok

Shouldent Deathlok be on the list of people held in Triskelion? They fought and overpowered him in Ultimate Spiderman #70 and he was taken into custody. --Robje 07:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Thor's "hammer".

So I was reading the comic earlier... And I noticed that Thors hammer is no longer a hammer but an axe now. Whats with that?

It's still a hammer, but with an axe attachment on the other side of the hammer head so it can be used as both. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 01:24, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, having an axe blad officially makes it an axe, although I forget the exact name for the type of axe. - SoM 02:08, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The Ultimate universe version is much more faithful to the style Mjolnir was in the legends. It's a battlehammer, as opposed to a mallet, which is basically a block of stone or metal used for smithing, etc. Basically, they went with a more traditional look, instead of the mallet version which has been popularized by the mainstream comic. Cybertooth85 03:40, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Relationships

I'd like to suggest that essentially this entire section be expunged. It's talking about characters and events from other comics, which can only serve to further clutter this already lenghty article. --InShaneee 03:26, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Reserves

I move to add Falcon to this. We've seen Sam Wilson and his wing-pack deployed repeatedly on missions by Fury and workign in conjunction with the team. Whether or not there's been a clear in-panel 'you're an ultimate now' or not, it's clear he's got some status within the team. ThuranX 01:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Seconded--TylerXKJ 03:13, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Ironically, I did this a couple days ago, just before i finally got a seconding on this. decided to 'be bold'.ThuranX 04:39, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Lady Deathstrike

Wasnt she killed by longshot when he escaped? Also, may i suggest we move all the topics about who is or isnt held in Triskelion under one heading? It should clear this place up a bit. --Robje 07:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

X Men 2

At one point in X2, Mystique uses a computer to acces the records on Magneto and where he is durrently imprisioned, during which we see an arial view of the prision. Is it just me, or does it resemble the Triskelion somewhat?

"Sixty of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s top agents in a Sentinel battle armor that has enough hardware to take on a fleet of the old Sentinel models"

as it later revealed it was probably a hyperbole abbout the "enough hardware to take on a fleet of the old Sentinel models" part they are no longer part of shield

also "the general super-soldiers of ultimate reserves" more correctly a backup divison of super soldiers in case the exceptional supers of ultimates would be depleted as its seen just moments before the invasion form u.s.-haters troops

Alleged Prisoners

The Lizard and Kleiser, manily, but they're not the only ones, we can't assume that people are there everytime they are arrested...As for Kleiser they were TESTING Hulk's escrements to see if he was there, where is it written they found remains?

The article doesn't say these enemies are housed in the triskelion, it says "The Ultimates have over the years defeated or killed a number of super-villains; most are detained in the Triskelion. A list of other past enemies include..." (emphasis mine). If these were former enemies they should be included. If they are not, then they should not be included. I know for a fact Herr Kleiser was. --Newt ΨΦ 20:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I answer here also for your page. :) No, Lizard isn't their enemy, it's spider-man's, and we will probably know about his fate in the next few months in USM. Herr Kleiser was their enemy but the alleged fact is that "there are remains in the Hulk's escrements", it's not confirmed, he is very probably dead.

Then remove the parenthetical statement about his remains being found in the excrement. And please sign your comments with ~~~~ --Newt ΨΦ 23:41, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Merge from List of Ultimates story arcs

Seems to be a needless split to provide more detail on the story arcs. CovenantD 16:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Survey

• Keep Seperate but cut down some for relevance. --InShaneee 02:45, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Seperate cutting down would be good, but all other Ultimate comics have a story arc section. --Lewis the Ger 17:44, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• Merge but both need to be cut down dramatically --Silver lode
• Merge per CovenantD --Chris Griswold 08:45, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge per Wikipedia is not a plot summarizer --Newt ΨΦ 15:53, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge but don't cut down--Brown Shoes22 16:45, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge and drastically cut down the Annual #1 and Grand Theft America sections. --Iron Ghost 17:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
• No merge --Jamdav86 13:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• No Merge Ultimate Spider-Man & Ultimate X-Men both have story arcs pages of there own, why not The Ultimates? - Seraph 31 19:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Your argument assumes that those articles will stay as well. However, one of those is already under discussion for merging, with, while not a consensus by votes, discussion (see: WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy) leaning favorably toward a merger. Wikipedia's policy is that these articles should not exist, especially not in this form, as merely a repository for detailed plot summaries. That others exist does not mean this one should. Also, please sign your vote if you'd like it to be counted. --Newt ΨΦ 19:34, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - Yes, those story arcs pages will be dealt with as well. I hope this argument is not brought up each time. --Chris Griswold 06:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment - Hasn't it already? --Newt ΨΦ 03:07, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - Using 'the other kids are doing it' is a bad idea, as all our moms taught us long, long ago. ThuranX 02:13, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge] A reduction in wikipages, combined with a concentration of highly connection information, makes sense in many ways. ThuranX 02:12, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge - The Authority entry seems to cope fine with having the various story arcs within the entry and there doesn't seem a good arguement for not merging (unless it made a page which was much larger than the recommended top limit - even then it would be an arguement to trim down a bit not split). I'd not want to slim them down too much at the moment unless they were really too bloated. (Emperor 02:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC))

Decision closed with a decision to merge. --Chris Griswold 08:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

I've made some fairly substantial cuts to the Annual and Grand Thief America sections. The Annual section in particular was far to long for a single issue summary. In my opinion, the summaries for the first three arcs are pretty concise and should probably not be cut back to much. --Iron Ghost 19:34, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok so the merge has gone forth, now the page seems kind of huge. We should cut down the story arcs and/or the Trivia. Most of the Trivia isn't really relevant it's about Superman/Batman. (Just my thoughts) ≈ Seraph 31 12:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Navbox Guidelines

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