Talk:Zeppelin

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Zeppelin or zeppelin?

I'm curious as to why this article uses a capital Z. --John (talk) 20:56, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Because if the term is being used in its narrow sense, as in this article, Zeppelin is a proper noun.TheLongTone (talk) 23:09, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree. In any case usage is not even consistent within the article. I started working on copyediting it, but there are major problems with the sourcing and the writing. The capitalisation is one of the problems but maybe not the major one. --John (talk) 23:15, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

And there are other internal inconsistencies. Nomenclature for example. Most sources would use eg LZ 55, but there are several other ways eg LZ.55, LZ-55, LZ55. Off-topic, in my opinion there is far too much on the WW1 bombing campaign: the section is headed see main article German Strategic bombing in WW1 (or similar), but this is in fact a woefully underdeveloped article that I sort of have my eye on, & imo much of this article could be moved there. Apart from anything else, it wasn't just Zeppelin ships & being pedantic the exploits of Schutte-Lanz ships belong elsewhere. As for sourcing and writing....this isn't the only article with the problems. I might have a go, since I have reasonable printed sources to hand.TheLongTone (talk) 23:41, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Zeppelin Bombing Campaign Was Not Just Against Britain

I think it is odd to have the discussion of WWI labeled "Bombing Campaign Against Britain". The following sections just labeled with years gives a false impression that the entire section about WWI bombing is just about Britain.

The first zeppelin bombings were against Liege and Antwerp, in the summer of 1914. As with the V-weapons attacks in WWII, it everyone forgets about Antwerp and only talks about London. There were also attacks against Paris, which is only mentioned in a photo copied from another article. It reports the destruction of LZ 25 in 1914 as if it was a preemptive tactic, when in fact LZ 25 had been bombing Antwerp, and allied positions in Dunkirk and Calais in the summer of 1914. It also appears to have large parts of the content of German strategic bombing during World War I copied into this general article about Zeppelins. DonPMitchell (talk) 06:24, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Agree. Problem is that there is little written about Zeppelins on other fronts, but the campaign against England is very well documented. The overlap with German strategic bombing during World War I is the other way round: this article was very underdeveloped so I moved a lot of the Zeppelin article to it, & have done some trimming of the content of the Zeppelin article, which imo is still too detailed.TheLongTone (talk) 11:36, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your work (nobody ever says that enough). I'm writing a biography of someone who witnessed the zeppelin bombing of Antwerp in 1914, so I'm poking around trying to gather up the history of those early raids. I'll put something about this in the article when I've gathered more information and references. There is a similar London-centric view about the V-2 raids, when in fact Antwerp was the most heavily targeted city by V-1 and V-2 weapons. DonPMitchell (talk) 19:16, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Had a quick look at The Times, not that newspapers are trustworthy even when there's not a war on, & put something in...The Times said something about there being about eight "bombs" (they were actually artillery shells since they had not started manufacturing bombs at that time) dropped on the first raid: the second seems to have been pretty much a washout. I'm actually waiting for my library to get something in from another library which ought to enable me to expand the other front stuff, it's on my to-do list.TheLongTone (talk) 01:01, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I've gone though the NYTimes archive too, and some other books and articles. There are inconsistencies and false reports (like frequent false claims that a bombing zeppelin was shot down). For Antwerp, reports vary on 8 to 10 bombs dropped on August 25 around 1AM, and much confusion about what was hit. Did it hit the royal residence or just come close, it is hard to tell. Second Zeppelin attack on Sep 2 around 3:45, 7 bombs dropped, including on a Red Cross hospital. September 18 a bomb was dropped on Antwerp by an airplane. Oct 1, zeppelin dropped three bombs just outside the city but was driven off. October 8, the day of intense shelling the day before the city surrendered, there were two zeppelin bombing raids at 11AM and 3PM, one of which ignited the oil reservoirs by the river. I've also seen reports that there were airplane bombing raids that day. It would be interesting to know which zeppelins were involved. The first raid was the army airship L-9. DonPMitchell (talk) 03:24, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

But let me add, view this all skeptically. One thing I notice is that reporters are confused about the concept of zeppelins directing artillery over Antwerp vs. actually bombing. DonPMitchell (talk) 09:48, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

I most certainly do! (why let the truth stand in the way of a good story?)TheLongTone (talk) 10:03, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Do German records of zeppelin raids exist? DonPMitchell (talk) 18:50, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

I think that Army records got destroyed in the 39-45 replay but Navy records survived. The two books by Douglas Robinson, both dating from the 1970s, seem to be the best English-language sources. The Zeppelin in Combat concentrates on the Navy operations, and the only military memoir(which is linked to in the List of Zeppelins is by a Navy flier who seems to be prone to exaggeration. As far as other sources go, most general histories of the war have little to say about the airship operations: they may have looked impressive but they had little actual effect.TheLongTone (talk) 23:07, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Army Career Section: use of title and expedition to source of Mississippi

Is there any evidence Zeppelin was using title "Count/Graf" in 1853? his father lived another 33 years. Also, the "expedition to the source of the Mississippi" did not occur. Zeppelin traveled from the Western end of Lake Superior to the Upper Mississippi by a difficult but well-known canoe-and-portage route in 1863,probably by at least one Russian in addition to Native American guides and perhaps his African-American cook. The trip took an unusually long 3 weeks, perhaps because a drought made the portages longer.My source is an article correcting the record published by MN Historical Society in the 1960s but i want to look at more recent work before correcting Wiki article.68.178.50.46 (talk) 23:35, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Added talk section to wrong article

Sorry. Note about Zeppelin's career inadvertantly placed on wrong article. Too tired to do this now. Probably try again later.68.178.50.46 (talk) 23:41, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Needs recent history

The article needs to include information about the recent Zeppelin NT airships instead of giving the impression that the Zeppelin company and it's aviation efforts are extinct.

Rich Acuff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.248.43.44 (talk) 18:07, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Vacuum zeppelins

Instead of filling a zeppelin with hot air, helium or hydrogen the removing of gas has the advantage to increase the ascending force. This is the new principle of vacuum zeppelins with a rigid hull.