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Advice about a nomination

Hi, I thought I'd seek advice here about nominating the Ruth Archer article, as it entered the mainspace in an unusual way. I was working on the article in my userspace and had planned to bring it to DYK when it was ready. A few hours ago, I noticed that another editor had copied my draft and published it in the mainspace with no attribution to me (they didn't once communicate with me about it). Two lovely administrators came to my rescue and my draft was moved into the mainspace. So, I'd like to know if the article is still eligible for DYK or not? - JuneGloom07 Talk 00:23, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

@JuneGloom07: I've seen this happen before, and the answer is definitely yes. The article was published with this edit, and it's certainly new enough. -Zanhe (talk) 00:33, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you! - JuneGloom07 Talk 00:39, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I hope you cried "Aww naaaaw!" when you found it had been moved. This is a joke (allegedly) for people who listen to The Archers; everybody else can skip over it. Belle (talk) 01:49, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I wish there was a like button for that comment. And yes, I did. - JuneGloom07 Talk 02:03, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

{{like}} might be what you're looking for. GRAPPLE ^X 10:15, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Technically, the admin who did it wasn't doing a copy from user space. It was a page move. Which begs the question of "Why??" I have to say I'm stunned two levels. The first is why an admin did that at all, much less on a day and time when the editor was obviously in the midst of editing it. The second is that a page move like that is automatically labeled by the system as a minor edit. Another admin long ago and far away advised me to create and store my articles off line, and to do anything but minor editing the same way. Now I see why. — Maile (talk) 12:12, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

The answer is: No one cares who put the article in mainspace except those who want to be noted they have the 'credit' for it (DYK etc). If someone thought the article was well-written and sourced enough to be moved to mainspace, off to mainspace it goes. Once you write something on wikipedia anywhere it ceases to be 'yours' in the ownership sense, so unless there is a policy-based objection, its not an issue. Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:28, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

The policy at play here is Wikipedia:Copyrights. As the OP states in his second sentence, the article was copied without attribution to the text's original author. The article being copied from user space to the article namespace without the required attribution to the original author is a blatant copyright violation. While a person posting any text to Wikipedia is at the same time agreeing to license that text under a set of free licenses, the terms of those licenses must still be respected by anyone wishing to reuse the text. --Allen3 ^talk 13:48, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Page move != copy. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:04, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

The original statement makes it clear that a page move was performed by different users after the draft was initially copied. GRAPPLE ^X 14:07, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Check the logs. What happened was someone did a copy+paste of the article from JuneGloom07's draft to mainspace. The administrator came along and deleted the copy-paste as a copyvio, then moved the draft to main space in the proper manner to maintain attribution. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 14:10, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Ah, I was responding to Maile who indicated the *original* move was a page move (rather than fixing the issue). Happy to be corrected. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:11, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

And so you are correct, Grapple X and ONUnicorn. I was confused by the edit history that only shows edits by JuneGloom07 and the admin who did the move. That being the case, I'm not so amazed about the copy and paste. In fact, something like that almost rates a yawn, except for the editor it happens to.— Maile (talk) 14:15, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I see nothing in WP:USER to support OID's view, or apparently yours, that it's just fine to move somebody else's user content to mainspace without consultation - quite the opposite. In fact, I would describe such an action as not only not supported by the guideline, but extraordinarily ill-mannered, as well as being contrary to the project's convention of collegiality. It simply shouldn't be done. Gatoclass (talk) 16:00, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Just to clarify: I dont think it is particularly collegial to *move* someone elses draft from userspace to main without consultation, however it isnt against policy and since attribution is kept there isnt a policy (or CC-violating) reason not to, and no real response other than to not worry about it and deal with it. There have been complaints before about drafts being moved before the author is ready for it with varying results. There probably *should* be an addition to policy explicitly prohibiting it without consultation, however I have no idea where it would go and it would run (in essence) counter to wikipedias release of material and the OWNership guidelines - if you feel there is somewhere it can be wedged in feel free to drop me a line on my talk page and I will draft something up. As its been clarified that it was originally copied rather than moved (I was responding to Maile rather than the original post) most of the above doesnt really apply to this discussion and can be written off as an aside. Only in death does duty end (talk) 16:18, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

You are correct that it isn't technically against policy, but it flies in the face of WP:NOBAN and other aspects of WP:UP#OWN. I'm not sure it would be possible, or even desirable, to outright ban such page moves given the licencing conditions, but certainly one should consult with users regarding content in their own user space, and respect their desires concerning it, unless there is very good reason not to, such as when they are employing user pages to retain problematic content that would be unlikely to survive in mainspace. Gatoclass (talk) 16:36, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Gatoclass This whole thread is starting to be a trip through the looking glass, so let me please straighten out how I feel.

- First of all, Gatoclass, OID and I were not expressing the same point of view.

- Second, when I initially looked at the edit history and thought the move was an admin whim, rather than a corrective response, I was surprised an admin would do anything like that.

- My second comment above was in response to being corrected that the first offense was someone actually doing a copy and paste from a user's page to mainspace. When I said I was not so amazed by the copy and paste, I was not saying I approve. That's happened to me, and it still ticks me off. But I'm not amazed when anyone does that. It's so easy to pull off. — Maile (talk) 16:37, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Well it sounds as if we are in furious agreement. Thanks for the clarification :) Gatoclass (talk) 16:44, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

@JuneGloom07: I'm not clear if you were asking if it will continue to be eligible for DYK beyond the normal seven days because it was moved to mainspace without your agreement? I'd think not, but you can always nominate it within the time limit and then (unless you get very unlucky) you can continue to work on it for months (crazy system? don't look at me; I wanted to change the rules). Belle (talk) 14:32, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

So long as the article is nominated by September 24, everything should be fine. While JuneGloom07 may wish to do further work on it, it's quite advanced (over 20K prose characters) and well sourced. I don't see any reason for the nomination, once made, to be delayed beyond the normal reviewing time, which could be short or quite long depending on the fates. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:57, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I had planned on nominating the article today, but I wanted to double check that it was still eligible for DYK following all the kerfuffle surrounding the move into the mainspace yesterday. Unbelievably, a slightly similar thing has happened to me again! I think I might have to work offline from now on. Thank you all for your help and advice. - JuneGloom07 Talk 16:14, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Error on main page: Kadmat Island

Nonsense on main page, so I removed it.[1] Both Agatti Island and Bangaram Atoll are also open to foreign tourists. Fram (talk) 12:13, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Note that on skimming recent DYKs from the main page, I find things like:

• • Yesterday, "... that Abbas Ali Baig was the first Indian cricketer to be kissed on the field?" Nope, the source states that he was the first Indian Test cricketer to be kissed on the field.[2]
  • 13 September, "... that St. Paul's Cathedral, Kolkata (pictured), the largest in the city, was the first Episcopal Church of Asia and the first to be built in the overseas territory of the British Empire?" I don't think so... Built between 1839 and 1847, no episcopal church was built in any British overseas territory before that? Not even e.g. Cathedral of the Holy Trinity, Gibraltar (built 1825-1832), to give a DYK-relevant example? Or St. George's Cathedral, Chennai, a cathedral since 1835? Or St. Thomas Cathedral, Mumbai? Or... .

Feel free to ping all editors involved, I really can't be bothered anymore. Fram (talk) 12:57, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, to be honest, you could also stop with the drama and Just fix it, rather then Crusading against windmills.--Kevmin § 16:20, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I can fix one or two entries, yes (and I did pull that one from the main page), but I will not be around to edit much longer, and it doesn't look like many other people are interested in fixing it. Perhaps we do need to take other measures, like keeping "score" on who reviews and promotes incorrect hooks. Anyone who makes a habit of it shouldn't be doing it. Perhaps it will improve DYK, perhaps it will bring it to a halt, both options are quite acceptable outcomes. Fram (talk) 19:33, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I think you have a point, Fram, that hooks relating to "firsts", "only"s and so on probably need some extra scrutiny, and it may be useful to add something to the guideline along those lines. I might point out, however, that if DYK sometimes errs regarding hooks of this type, they are usually doing no more than repeating errors in the underlying source. Gatoclass (talk) 17:26, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Louis F. Menage in Prep 4

I am having some problems with the Louis F. Menage hook in Prep 4 which claims he "built the first skyscraper in Minneapolis, Minnesota". When I check the supporting source, I see that he "spent $1 million to erect the city's tallest skyscraper" but can not find where the source indicates his building was the city's first skyscraper. List of tallest buildings in Minneapolis#Timeline of tallest buildings appears to match the source, indicating Menage's building was the tallest at the time but not the first tall building. Is this an issue with varying definitions over time for the term skyscraper or am I missing something? --Allen3 ^talk 11:03, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

The Metropolitan Building (Minneapolis) article itself states that the building was the city's first skyscraper, sourced to an offline book on skyscrapers, so I think we can AGF that the hook is verified, even though the cite is in the wrong article. Gatoclass (talk) 11:20, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Wait - it appears there is another candidate for first skyscraper in Minneapolis, the Lumber Exchange Building, which does indeed raise doubts about the hook. Gatoclass (talk) 11:26, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

I have pulled the hook until the issue is resolved. Gatoclass (talk) 11:30, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

DYK is almost overdue

In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:

1. Check the prep areas; if there are between 6-10 hooks on the page then it is probably good to go. If not move approved hooks from the suggestions page and add them and the credits as required.
2. Once completed edit queue #1 and replace the page with the entire content from the next update
3. Add {{DYKbotdo|~~~}} to the top of the queue and save the page

Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot (talk) 10:04, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

The update is now 2 hours overdue. There are completed sets in Prep 1 and Prep 2, but nothing has been moved to a queue. Can an admin please assist? — Maile (talk) 13:57, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, I think I did it right - but if someone else would like to double check, I'd be grateful! Yunshui ^雲_水 14:38, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

@Yunshui: It looks OK. But I wonder if you also have to update the time to get it to work? Template:Did you know/Next update/Time — Maile (talk) 14:44, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh, well, it's not exactly OK. You also left the hooks in Prep 1. — Maile (talk) 14:47, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Oops. Give me a minute or two - the bot instructions are a bit sparse. Yunshui ^雲_水 14:50, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Think that's done it... Yunshui ^雲_水 14:52, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

That's great. What you promoted is now on the Main page. Thanks for doing this. — Maile (talk) 16:00, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Prep areas 2 & 3 ready to be promoted to Queues

As I write this, there are about 6 hours before the next Queue needs to be ready for the Main page. Prep areas 2 & 3 are ready to promote. Giving ample time here so we don't miss the next update. Also, this gives anyone else a chance to re-check the hooks on those preps. — Maile (talk) 20:31, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Preps 4 and 5 ready to be promoted to queue

Update due to happen in 3 hours. Preps 4 and 5 are full and ready to promote to Queue. — Maile (talk) 23:14, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Oldest nominations needing DYK reviewers

The previous list has just been archived, so I've compiled a new set of the 39 oldest nominations that need reviewing. As of the most recent update, 124 nominations are approved, leaving 187 of 311 nominations still needing approval. Thanks to everyone who reviews these, especially those left over from July and August.

• July 21: Template:Did you know nominations/Cccan't You See
• July 30: Template:Did you know nominations/Artists with the most number-ones on the U.S. Mainstream Top 40 chart
• July 31: Template:Did you know nominations/Cristian Bustos
• August 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Varaha Upanishad
• August 16: Template:Did you know nominations/Murder of Shuja Khanzada (two articles)
• August 18: Template:Did you know nominations/Province of Catanzaro (two articles)
• August 20: Template:Did you know nominations/Henry Lowenfeld
• August 21: Template:Did you know nominations/2015 attack in Thalys train car
• August 22: Template:Did you know nominations/Unplugged (Siti Nurhaliza album)
• August 25: Template:Did you know nominations/Hollywood Sci-Fi Museum
• August 27: Template:Did you know nominations/BK Chicken Fries
• August 27: Template:Did you know nominations/Oru Nadigai Natakam Parkiral
• August 27: Template:Did you know nominations/Jeffery Rowthorn
• August 27: Template:Did you know nominations/Michigan Heritage Park
• August 27: Template:Did you know nominations/The Late Bloomer
• August 28: Template:Did you know nominations/Anna Bråkenhielm
• August 28: Template:Did you know nominations/James Beard Public Market
• August 28: Template:Did you know nominations/CC Barber
• August 28: Template:Did you know nominations/Leandro Rodríguez
• August 29: Template:Did you know nominations/Eicher Polaris Multix
• August 30: Template:Did you know nominations/A. E. Sewell
• August 31: Template:Did you know nominations/Anibal Escalante
• September 1: Template:Did you know nominations/Washington State University School of Medicine
• September 2: Template:Did you know nominations/2013 Chicago Bears season
• September 2: Template:Did you know nominations/Daman Ganga River
• September 2: Template:Did you know nominations/Howard Sims
• September 3: Template:Did you know nominations/James Johnston (missionary)
• September 3: Template:Did you know nominations/Cascina Increa
• September 3: Template:Did you know nominations/A Very Gaga Thanksgiving
• September 3: Template:Did you know nominations/Checkmate (1911 film)
• September 3: Template:Did you know nominations/That We Can Play
• September 3: Template:Did you know nominations/James Edelman
• September 3: Template:Did you know nominations/Emin Huseynov
• September 3: Template:Did you know nominations/William L. Uanna
• September 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Julie Schwabe
• September 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Almendralejo
• September 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Cyclone Rusty
• September 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Greenhouse Software
• September 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Grakliani Hill

Please remember to cross off entries as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 02:48, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Old approved nominations awaiting promotion

With 129 nominations currently awaiting promotion (excluding special occasion hooks) and 312 total, it's easy for prep set builders to overlook the ones that have been waiting for a long time since they were approved, since they aren't listed in any order.

The following are 23 nominations that were approved over two and a half weeks ago, one of which is from the previous list of 18, which has been archived. Since we're promoting 102 per week, these 35 have been waiting quite a bit longer than average. Date given is date of approval.

I have not checked these to be sure they're fine, so you'll need to do the usual double checks before promoting any of these to prep.

• September 2: Template:Did you know nominations/Sepia prashadi
• September 3: Template:Did you know nominations/Lexington-Concord Sesquicentennial half dollar
• September 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Saga Becker
• September 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Ester Textorius
• September 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Mammillaria spinosissima
• September 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Hilary Kahn
• September 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Ficus platypoda
• September 5: Template:Did you know nominations/Vavro Šrobár
• September 5: Template:Did you know nominations/Rod Steiger on screen and stage
• September 5: Template:Did you know nominations/Aram Karamanoukian
• September 6: Template:Did you know nominations/Russian monitor Novgorod
• September 6: Template:Did you know nominations/Dyscourse
• September 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Cortinarius glaucopus
• September 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Boile Run
• September 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Schloss Weesenstein
• September 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Elephantomyia bozenae
• September 8: Template:Did you know nominations/Oriole blackbird
• September 8: Template:Did you know nominations/Hendrick Peter Godfried Quack
• September 8: Template:Did you know nominations/Pachycondyla? messeliana
• September 9: Template:Did you know nominations/Columbia Memorial Space Center
• September 9: Template:Did you know nominations/Blackie Gejeian
• September 9: Template:Did you know nominations/You Don't Know What to Do
• September 9: Template:Did you know nominations/Chili mac

Please remember to cross off an entry as you promote it, or discover that it isn't eligible for promotion at the present time. Thank you very much! BlueMoonset (talk) 02:00, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Prep 1 ready to be promoted to queue

Just completed prep 1. Queue is completely empty. Any administrator may help perform the promotion. sst^flyer 07:03, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Prep 1

that one of only four Palladian bridges in the world (pictured) is located in Prior Park Landscape Garden?

I can't find that in the reference, can someone help please? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:28, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Pinging @Rodw: and @Casliber: as author and nominator respectively. GRAPPLE ^X 18:41, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

It's a claim that is often repeated eg here, here and here but I think it is properly "One of only four Palladian bridges of this design in the world", and the claim is controversial among architectural historians who study the works of Andrea Palladio and those which came after.— Rod ^talk 18:59, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like we need a different hook, just to be sure. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:03, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

I hadn't spotted this one had been nominated for DYK after its GA review (which you kindly did). Another hook could be about it being laid out by the poet Alexander Pope, which is supported by an offline source (a book I have) but @Casliber: may wish to comment as the nominator.— Rod ^talk 20:31, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Ok Rod, write it and I can review. Not sure when I will be online today so anyone else can approve once a new hook written. I approved it after wading though the sources, but don't know enough about architecture really....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:58, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

ALT1 that Prior Park Landscape Garden (pictured) was laid out by the poet Alexander Pope?— Rod ^talk 07:10, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Ok, will update per this as no other discussion is forthcoming and the queue is about to be updated. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:17, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

DYK is almost overdue

In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:

1. Check the prep areas; if there are between 6-10 hooks on the page then it is probably good to go. If not move approved hooks from the suggestions page and add them and the credits as required.
2. Once completed edit queue #1 and replace the page with the entire content from the next update
3. Add {{DYKbotdo|~~~}} to the top of the queue and save the page

Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot (talk) 11:46, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't want another overdue update. Any admin, please help move Prep 1 to queue 1. sst^flyer 13:18, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, it is now half an hour overdue. — Maile (talk) 14:08, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

hang on, we need a hook with pic. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 17:07, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Plus, there's no rush. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:11, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

•  Done But we will need more sets soon. Gatoclass (talk) 17:31, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Prep 2 is ready to promote to Queue

Have a go at inspecting it. I'm pretty sure the image of onion powder has no issues. But check the rest if you like. Less than an hour and a half to go. Someone else will have to build another prep. My time is up at DYK for the day. — Maile (talk) 22:09, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Idea: DYK coordinator?

With the frequency of overdue updates to the main page, despite often with completed prep sets, would it be a good idea to nominate admins to be some sort of DYK coordinators, just like featured content coordinators? The DYK coordinators will be responsible for promoting prep sets to queues on time, to check for errors with the hooks, and to manually update the T:DYK template when DYKUpdateBot is down. What do you think? sst^flyer 02:52, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't think that's necessarily a bad idea, if there are specific admins willing to take on the role. I was active in DYK years ago and am going to try to help out more to provide additional support. –Grondemar 03:19, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

For now, maybe you can help promote prep area sets to queues when no other admin does this task. sst^flyer 04:39, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm looking at prep 2 now. I already had to pull one hook whose sources did not confirm what the hook stated. –Grondemar 06:01, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea to have at least one coordinator, and two or three coordinator delegates. All should be Admins. The questions then arise:

1) Who is willing?

2) Do we elect them or use another method?

There is a high burn-out out participation rate here, a lot of which is attributable to the in-fighting. Maybe a coordinator and delegates would help straighten that out. We have Admins participating here who are also participants in other processes like FAC and FLC. Perhaps they could offer some insight. — Maile (talk) 12:28, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

• Would these coordinators have any special powers above and beyond regular admins? If so, I oppose. Adding elected officials to DYK only adds elitism and bureaucracy. (In fact, I'd support getting rid of the featured content "directors" and "coordinators" for a similar reason. Any uninvolved editor with experience in the featured content process should be able to gauge consensus at an FAC or FLC). But if these are just people who agree to help keep the peace and straighten out the queues, and they don't get to decide what gets promoted or when, then it's worth considering. --Jakob (talk) aka Jakec 12:43, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Actually, we would need to have a Coordinator guideline spelled out. How about this one from the WP:MHist:

Coordinators are generally responsible for maintaining all of the procedural and administrative aspects of the project. All of the coordinators, and especially the lead coordinator (or lead coordinators), serve as the designated points-of-contact for procedural issues and focus on specific areas requiring special attention. They are not, however, endowed with any special executive powers.

— Maile (talk) 12:52, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

The two main issues at DYK are (most importantly) the promotion of poorly referenced or simply incorrect hooks and (not really important at all) the failure to meet the deadline of updating the queues in time to keep the main page DYK churn going. You already have admins doing the former, and the latter occurs usually because people have better things to do than keep hitting some arbitrary deadline. I would definitely discourage anyone from becoming some kind of DYK co-ordinator, it's a poisoned chalice. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:00, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

DYK is almost overdue

In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:

1. Check the prep areas; if there are between 6-10 hooks on the page then it is probably good to go. If not move approved hooks from the suggestions page and add them and the credits as required.
2. Once completed edit queue #2 and replace the page with the entire content from the next update
3. Add {{DYKbotdo|~~~}} to the top of the queue and save the page

Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot (talk) 03:42, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Updated. I didn't have a chance to issue credits; if someone is willing to go into the history of Prep 2 and issue credits for the set currently on the Main Page, I'd appreciate it. –Grondemar 06:41, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

I only told you to update the queues area, not directly promote it to the main page… sst^flyer 07:41, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

The preps and queues are out of sync now and I don't know how to fix that. Also, a new update will be needed in six hours and there are none in prep ATM. Gatoclass (talk) 13:28, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Gatoclass, I think you can fix it by clicking on the template on Queue 2, where it says "Update". That should take you to Template:Did you know/Queue/Next, where an Admin has to change the queue number. is that is? — Maile (talk) 13:44, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks. But I'm not sure whether anyone has done the credits yet - I am not going to have time right now. Gatoclass (talk) 13:51, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

I've done the credits. Gatoclass (talk) 14:08, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

But it's only five hours to the next update and the preps are empty. Gatoclass (talk) 14:10, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Copyvio checks -- replacing Dup Detector with Copyvio Detector

I've noticed that Earwig's Copyvio Detector is a better tool than Duplication Detector when it comes to analyzing an article vs. its sources for copyvios, and indeed it seems to be more used by DYK reviewers (and other content reviewers in general). Was there ever a discussion about replacing the link in {{DYK conditions}} to quicklink to the better tool? ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 12:52, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

We used to have the Earwig link in Template:DYK tools, but users found Earwig was missing too much for our purposes. There has been more than one discussion about this. I guess which one is the better tool is a matter of perspective. — Maile (talk) 16:20, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

I think Earwig's tool may be too prone to false positives. I used it to work on Moses Malone before it could be promoted, because much of the article had been copy/pasted years earlier. Out of curiosity, I tried Earwig's tool on Derek Jeter, an article I got promoted to FA in 2012, and has been edited with such a fine tooth comb that I was sure there was no way it would be found to be a problem. It came up as a 75.6% likelihood of plagiarism with an MLB.com subpage from 2014. Maybe both tools should be used to counterbalance each others weaknesses. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:18, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

I've had similar experience with Earwig's tool and don't think it's worth the trouble. I used it on a GA I was reviewing, and it returned an alarming 90% match. But upon close inspection, all matches turn out to be false positives. -Zanhe (talk) 18:59, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

• I now see I'm not bringing any new idea -- this has been discussed before. Apologies for not properly researching archives before opening my mouth! What I especially like with Earwig's is that is quickly checks an article against all of its refs/ELs, whereas DupDetector (AFAICS) requires individual page comparisons. 18:55, 24 September 2015 (UTC) ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 18:55, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
• I don't know. I think it's worth including Earwig's. Earwig's tool gives a much clearer, easier to read side-by-side comparison, and both tools give false matches. Take a look at the results both tools give on the article I've been working on about Der Ruf (newspaper). Earwig's tool thinks there's a 78.4% match, and the dup detector also gives a lot of hits. Nevertheless, a closer examination shows that what both are flagging are brief cited quotations, unavoidable matches where two people writing about the same thing will use the same words, proof that I'm using smallstatebighistory.com extensively as a source (which you can tell by the numerous citations to it in the article), etc. but it's not a copyvio or even particularly close paraphrasing. However, dup detector just pulls what it considers to be matches, with no context, whereas Earwig, although it gives a big red alarming percentage at the top, gives context to the surrounding text making it easier for you to decide if its off its rocker or not. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 19:46, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
• I think there is no harm to include Earwig's tool together with the DupDet. Why not? sst^flyer 13:50, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

  DupDet has the advantage that I can rig it to access non-open source websites. Earwig's tool is much more easy to read if you can filter out false positives. I think it's a matter of personal preference and I would support adding a link to it in the reviewer tools.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 17:02, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

DYK is almost overdue

In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:

1. Check the prep areas; if there are between 6-10 hooks on the page then it is probably good to go. If not move approved hooks from the suggestions page and add them and the credits as required.
2. Once completed edit queue #3 and replace the page with the entire content from the next update
3. Add {{DYKbotdo|~~~}} to the top of the queue and save the page

Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot (talk) 16:33, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

•  Done - and only 12 hours late!

Now somebody needs to put another update or two together to avoid a similar fiasco. Thanks, Gatoclass (talk) 06:49, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I finished building prep 3 before the deadline. sst^flyer 15:52, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Well I guess there was no-one around to promote it then. Feel free to nudge an administrator if a set is ready when DYK is overdue but hasn't been promoted. Gatoclass (talk) 18:24, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Didi Tera Devar Deewana held too long

Hello admins! It was requested that the subject DYK should appear today (28 September, IST). The last update of today has already gone and this is now scheduled for 29th, hopefully. Why hold it in special occasions area if that occasion is going to be missed so badly?! §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 11:34, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

It was on schedule until we missed an update. It still depends on other editors filling up Prep 4. Could you help do that, maybe? — Maile (talk) 12:12, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

I havn't done that before. So i don't wanna spoil someone else's expectations also. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 14:38, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Extremely tragic. This would have been great on Mangeshkar's birthday. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 22:40, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Special dates articles in holding

Maybe it's a good idea to post a reminder here so we don't miss dates on promoting these:

October 3—10

• 2015 IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championship
• 1:10 radio-controlled off-road buggy - has an image
• 2009 IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championship

October 14

• Greenstone Building - has an image

These are all on the holding area right now. — Maile (talk) 23:23, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

More sets please!

I built one set, but we could really use a couple more if someone can find time to build them. Gatoclass (talk) 15:15, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

It is difficult finding people interested in building sets when someone has been hogging the image slots for the last week. I know my interest in building sets where someone else has determined most of the tone and style of the set by filling the image slot and leaving most or all of other slots for someone else to deal with is fairly low (I have played this game too many times in the past). With the lack of volunteers, it appears that others share a similar outlook. --Allen3 ^talk 00:36, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Building sets should count as QPQ credit. Then perhaps more people would help build sets. --Jakob (talk) aka Jakec 00:39, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

I agree about the image slots - there is too much forward filling of these slots lately and I am sure you are not the only one to find this a turn-off Allen3. This is not the first time this issue has come up, and I think something will need to be done about it. Gatoclass (talk) 07:38, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Too bad I didn't see this about an hour ago before I stuck in two more image slots. Sorry about that. "hogging the image slots" never occurred to me, just a mixing up of what was available. And mostly because for 2 or 3 days, nobody was building sets at all and we were missing, or nearly missing, updates. But I'll fall back for a while and let someone else do something. There seems to be more set building participation lately. I agree with Jakec, in theory, about set building counting towards QPQ. Except I don't want one more thing to keep track of. And then you'd have to do a permalink on a nomination template to prove to a reviewer you met your quota. — Maile (talk) 21:45, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Halloween hooks?

I'd like to suggest that we organize something for Halloween, just over a month away now. There are a number of items currently listed on the nominations page that would work well as Halloween DYKs, either as they are now or with revised hooks. In particular:

• Template:Did you know nominations/Mein Herze schwimmt im Blut, BWV 199
• Template:Did you know nominations/Anniyan - needs a review
• Template:Did you know nominations/Zombi 2
• Template:Did you know nominations/Modern Vampires of the City
• Template:Did you know nominations/Tufted ground squirrel
• Template:Did you know nominations/Demon core
• Template:Did you know nominations/The Conjuring 2: The Enfield Poltergeist
• Template:Did you know nominations/Cooloola monster
• Template:Did you know nominations/Lawrence Joseph Bader
• Template:Did you know nominations/Resident Evil: The Final Chapter

I'm sure there will be others - basically anything with a spooky ghost/monster/vampire/demon kind of hook, or with a topic that could be given a suitably Halloweeny hook. Thoughts? Prioryman (talk) 11:10, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Zombi 2 is currently in the queue somewhere as well. I'm sure I could rustle up something along a similar vein in time for Halloween as well though. GRAPPLE ^X 11:25, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Vein? I see what you did there... Prioryman (talk) 19:36, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Not a bad idea, but remember not to dominate a set with too many Halloween hooks, even if the set is to appear on the front page on October 31. sst^flyer 15:55, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

It's fine to dominate with special occasion hooks for well-known events - in fact, the more the merrier. Gatoclass (talk) 18:35, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

In fact, days like Halloween are a chance for DYK to shine, to get a couple of sets through, all related to the day itself. Aim for 16 hooks and a quicker turnaround, that would do DYK no end of favours. Let's just make sure the articles/hooks etc are suitable.... The Rambling Man (talk) 19:00, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Yep, let's get cracking - we've got most of one set already (above). Could someone please take Tufted ground squirrel and Demon core out of the prep area for now? I'll create a holding area for the Halloween hooks. Prioryman (talk) 19:36, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Done - the vampire squirrel and demon core are back in play for Halloween. — Maile (talk) 19:58, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Great, thanks for doing that. Prioryman (talk) 21:21, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Actually, got one more for you: could you also please pull Zombi 2 from prep 2? Prioryman (talk) 21:22, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Have you asked any of the nominators of these hooks whether they want theirs to be held for Halloween? If they don't, we should respect those wishes rather than co-opting them. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:25, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

I've already asked in the case of Cooloola monster, as there was a dispute over the date, and have left a note on Template:Did you know nominations/Demon core and Template:Did you know nominations/Zombi 2. Template:Did you know nominations/Tufted ground squirrel is one of mine. The others either haven't been scheduled or haven't been reviewed yet. Prioryman (talk) 22:13, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

I am happy for Demon core to be used on Halloween. Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:08, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

If they did not request a specific date, hook nominators have no control over the date for their hooks to be displayed anyway. sst^flyer 23:58, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

I have reinstated my (removed) comments above about two nominations that need to be reviewed. They've been moved to the bottom holding area, and if we don't say here they are still needing reviews, they could sit there until Halloween without being reviewed. — Maile (talk) 00:07, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

@Maile66: or any other admin - Zombi 2 has moved up to Queue 2 - it needs to be yanked ASAP so we can put it in the Halloween set. Prioryman (talk) 11:04, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Done Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:19, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/You Don't Know What to Do

This hook was approved on September 9. It is now September 29. I would greatly appreciate it being promoted. Many thanks.  — Calvin999 20:44, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Promoted to Prep 5. — Maile (talk) 21:12, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

A friendly reminder to all prep set builders: there's a list of hooks on this page (including this one) that were approved at the same time or earlier; these have all been waiting for about three weeks. Please remember to take a look when you're assembling prep sets. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:32, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Could we get a system whereby the oldest approved hooks appear at the top of a "hooks needing a set" list? I agree that this process is painfully slow, and after several of mine took three weeks or more to see the mainpage I basically stopped making them. Do we have designated admins to oversee this, or is it just the luck, or lack thereof, of the draw? RO^(talk) 21:47, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

This (really good idea) has been discussed several times before. Nothing happens with it. In regards to a designated admin, please see Idea: DYK coordinator. Nobody is in charge of anything, and human beings keep being imperfect about selection methods and everything else they do. If there is any criteria at all followed, it's to try and mix up the subject of what is in a set, leading to hopscotching through the dates trying to find something.— Maile (talk) 21:56, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Try placing a request for a bot to generate such a page. sst^flyer 23:56, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

While assuming good faith, I cannot see the rush to promote this hook. There does not seem to be any date connection for this hook, and several hooks have been waiting longer. Aaron, you may want to help prep building to speed up the process (by allowing updates to be on time), but try to avoid promoting hooks you nominated or reviewed. Thanks for your help. sst^flyer 23:53, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

How did you know to call me Aaron? SSTflyer  — Calvin999 08:25, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

In the past, you have alternately called yourself Aaron. And right here on DYK, as best as I can remember. Everything we post is public record. — Maile (talk) 12:13, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

How is this relevant to this discussion? sst^flyer 08:26, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Queue 2 needs a new hook – admin needed

One of the hooks apparently destined for Halloween was just pulled from the final (quirky) slot of Queue 2 but not replaced. Can a friendly admin please move in a quirky hook from one of the preps, so the queue is the proper length? Many thanks. (The next promotion to the main page is in just under four hours.) BlueMoonset (talk) 16:15, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Corrections for the upcoming Queue

The (pictured) in Queue 3 is incorrect. It should be after Paul Newman, who is pictured, rather than Martin Ritt, who isn't. Also the credits need to be fixed. The following correct credits should replace the incorrect ones:

* {{DYKmake|Hud (1963 film)|GDuwen|subpage=Hud (film)}}
* {{DYKmake|Dusky-green oropendola|Cwmhiraeth|subpage=Black oropendola}}

MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:45, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Please fix this ASAP. Going on main page in less than 2 hours. sst^flyer 06:27, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Seems to have been done by TRM. Ping me if there's anything more than needs doing. Jenks24 (talk) 06:57, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Queue 4 image needs a caption in next four hours; admin needed

Admin needed to add a caption to the image in Queue 4, which is due to be promoted to the main page in about four hours. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:14, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

The image uses a template, {{CSS image crop}}, which, according to its documentation, should only be used for previewing how a cropped image will look. When used on a page, especially a high traffic one such as the Main Page, it should be replaced with an actual cropped image, which should be placed in the standard {{Main page image}} with a caption. Pinging Crisco 1492 (the nominator). MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 20:30, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

D'oh! Already hit the Main Page. Copied report to WP:ERRORS. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 20:51, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

All queues are empty, but five prep sets are completed

Admins please help transfer the prep sets to queues. ⛅✈ 04:44, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

DYK is almost overdue

In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:

1. Check the prep areas; if there are between 6-10 hooks on the page then it is probably good to go. If not move approved hooks from the suggestions page and add them and the credits as required.
2. Once completed edit queue #5 and replace the page with the entire content from the next update
3. Add {{DYKbotdo|~~~}} to the top of the queue and save the page

Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot (talk) 07:01, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Highly dubious and probably wrong hook removed from prep

• ... that at Grakliani Hill there had been 300,000 years of non-stop human settlement?

From Template:Did you know nominations/Grakliani Hill, @Tradereddy, BabbaQ, and Allen3:.

It is sourced, but reading through the sources (markedly lacking any scientific ones, and including many patriotic ones, like Agenda.ge, "Initialized by the Government of Georgia"), it appears that this must have been a misunderstanding or a very strong claim they couldn't substantiate afterwards. All finds that are being discussed are from the last few thousand years, and the article itself makes this clear: "The site had been occupied between the Chalcolithic and the Late Hellenistic periods." (section "occupation").

See e.g. this source used in the article: "The settlement and necropolis of Grakliani Hill is believed to be the only monument of extensive chronology where almost all of the layers of human development, from the 4th to the 1st centuries BC until the period of Christianity, were revealed." I have no idea what they mean, a city like Rome or Athens has all these layers and more, but in any case, they claim here "from the 4th century BC", not from 300,000 years ago. It is also quite revealing that an article like this one from the article no longer repeats the 300,000 claim, and again doesn't speak about anything pre-4000 BC.

The article also has some issues with too close paraphrasing.

Article:

• "In fact, within the first two months of digging, researches unearthed more than 35,000 priceless pieces, from hundreds of graves and remnants of settlements that date back to eighth century BCE"

Source:

• "The two months of digging that followed unearthed more than 35,000 priceless pieces. Hundreds of graves and remnants of settlements that date back to VIII century B.C. were found, along with clay pottery, jewelry, household items, weapons and tools made of a variety of metals."

Please remain critical when assessing sources. Being sourced isn't sufficient to be added to an encyclopedia, the reliability and scientific value of the source (for scientific claims) needs to be taken into account. It looks as if they have a very interesting archaeological site dating back to a few thousand years BC; apart from that, we have one oft-repeated but otherwise completely evidence-free claim of uninterrupted habitation for 300,000 years, which is a very strong claim to make. Fram (talk) 14:45, 2 October 2015 (UTC)