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Request that an editor make changes to paragraph about Cleveland Clinic overseas.
Line 124: Line 124:
May I suggest that an editor to replace the paragraph cited above with the paragraph below (or something like it):
May I suggest that an editor to replace the paragraph cited above with the paragraph below (or something like it):
Cleveland Clinic has since then expanded overseas. Since 2007, Cleveland Clinic has managed [[Shaikh Khalifa Medical City]] (SKMC), in [[Abu Dhabi]], for SEHA, the Abu Dhabi Health Services Company.<ref name=pdabudhabi>http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2013/04/cleveland_clinic_officials_say.html</ref> [[Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi]], a specialty hospital and clinic, opened in 2015.<ref>http://www.thenational.ae/uae/health/two-more-departments-open-at-cleveland-clinic-abu-dhabi</ref><ref>http://www.thenational.ae/uae/hospitals/cleveland-clinic-abu-dhabi-now-fully-operational---video</ref> In October, 2015, Cleveland Clinic signed a long-term lease for a six-story office building at 33 Grosvenor Place in London, England. <ref>http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2015/10/cleveland_clinic_to_open_health_care_facility_in_pricey_central_london.html</ref>
"Cleveland Clinic has since then expanded overseas. Since 2007, Cleveland Clinic has managed [[Shaikh Khalifa Medical City]] (SKMC), in [[Abu Dhabi]], for SEHA, the Abu Dhabi Health Services Company.<ref name=pdabudhabi>http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2013/04/cleveland_clinic_officials_say.html</ref> [[Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi]], a specialty hospital and clinic, opened in 2015.<ref>http://www.thenational.ae/uae/health/two-more-departments-open-at-cleveland-clinic-abu-dhabi</ref><ref>http://www.thenational.ae/uae/hospitals/cleveland-clinic-abu-dhabi-now-fully-operational---video</ref> In October, 2015, Cleveland Clinic signed a long-term lease for a six-story office building at 33 Grosvenor Place in London, England. <ref>http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2015/10/cleveland_clinic_to_open_health_care_facility_in_pricey_central_london.html</ref>"

I cannot do this myself because of a perceived conflict of interest.


Thank you [[User:HealthMonitor|HealthMonitor]] ([[User talk:HealthMonitor|talk]]) 19:40, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Thank you [[User:HealthMonitor|HealthMonitor]] ([[User talk:HealthMonitor|talk]]) 19:40, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:46, 29 October 2015

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Reversion?

Elvey: May I ask, why the reversion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HealthMonitor (talk • contribs) 01:36, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you ask I question I already answered in my edit summary? Did you not read it?--Elvey(t•c) 08:22, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Elvey: Thanks for your reply. I have removed all references to books, publications and websites controlled by the subject of the article. All facts are referenced by third parties. I have posted a request for edits below. I hope this has been done properly. HealthMonitor — Preceding unsigned comment added by HealthMonitor (talk • contribs) 17:02, 13 October 2015‎
Elvey deleted 40kb of content and HealthMonitor dropped a changed version of those 40kb of content here on this talk page. I reverted both of these changes. Let's all talk before making big changes.
Elvey - good call in demanding an explanation from HealthMonitor. Obviously this person has a relationship with Cleveland Clinic because they say on their talk page that they work there. Healthmonitor - thanks for coming to Wikipedia and making a good faith effort to comply with the rules. We all are aware that Wikipedia has a troubled history of being attacked by public relations staff of every organization on earth, and that the volunteers tire quickly of arguing with paid employees who have an agenda and push against Wikipedia rules. I would like to give my personal opinion that HealthMonitor has made an attempt to comply with Wikipedia rules, and has been in good communication with this talk page, and has responded well to criticism in the past.
Elvey - can you elaborate on your complaint that "Revert edits which consist of undisclosed paid/sponsored advocacy. Disclosure within an article is not allowed by Wikipedia policy; authorship attribution is normally limited to edit histories. Undisclosed paid promo. content violates FTC regulations", which you wrote in the edit summary? Can you point out 1-2 specific things which conflict with Wikipedia rules? Are you really asserting that this content is problematic in entirety, or do you see some particular problems?
I could criticize this content also. I like to see references after every sentence per Wikipedia's verifiability rules, and I like for all references to go to reliable sources (meaning not self-published by Cleveland Clinic), but among the content which I think needs development I see also some things that I like.
May I ask for a little deeper criticism? It is not efficient to bat around 40kb of text, and I wonder if we can focus on specific problems as we examine this. Blue Rasberry (talk) 19:46, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't dispute that HealthMonitor has made an attempt to comply with Wikipedia rules, however, undisclosed paid promo. content violates FTC regulations and thereby conflicts with Wikipedia rules. (What part of "Revert edits which consist of undisclosed paid/sponsored advocacy. Disclosure within an article is not allowed by Wikipedia policy; authorship attribution is normally limited to edit histories. Undisclosed paid promo. content violates FTC regulations" DO you understand?) I would certainly be open to offering deeper criticism - however first the criticism I already offered ought be responded to more substantively. Until then, you're edit warring by reverting and more importantly, you need to be aware that adding undisclosed paid promo. content that violates FTC regulations and thereby conflicts with Wikipedia rules - even if it's you adding the content by reverting my revert. I ask that you reconsider and undo your revert while discussion continues. I see you saw my comment on User_talk:HealthMonitor where I've already offered deeper criticism.
Contributions that violate US law are not welcome here. For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, see the conflict of interest guideline and frequently asked questions for organizations. In particular, HealthMonitor has failed to
  • avoid editing or creating articles related to this organization. And Bluerasberry has edited to perpetuate edits that fail to do that!
  • exercise great caution so that not to violate Wikipedia's content policies.
Finally: All contributors must not contribute content that violates conflict of interest laws (just as all contributors must respect copyright). The Unfair Commercial Practices Directive is valid throughout the European Union. In a German court decision in 2012 (that also relied on the directive) regarding Wikipedia: "The court held that when a company edits a Wikipedia article, the resulting text falsely creates the impression that the edit has no business-related purpose. By implication, the judges found that the average reader of Wikipedia articles expects to find objective and neutral information" rather than content written by a paid advocate such as yourself. That is a very very important condition, comparable to the FTC Guide" that consumers are likely to believe reflects the opinions, beliefs, findings, or experience of a party other than the sponsoring advertiser”. This expectation by consumers of neutral information on Wikipedia, requires that companies not write "their" WP articles for PR/marketing purposes. It is essential to achieve consensus on the conflict between this content that I removed and FTC Guide and policy. Understood? --Elvey(t•c) 20:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Elvey: Please point out where the content was not factual or poorly sourced, and I will be happy to correct or remove those sentences. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HealthMonitor (talk • contribs) 23:13, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Elvey
  1. It is against site policy to attempt to apply law to Wikimedia guidelines. Talking about the FTC ruling is out of bounds. Wikipedia:Wikilawyering and Wikipedia:No legal threats say more about this. If you do have a legal concern then site guidelines are to escalate it to the Wikimedia legal team immediately, which I would help you do, but I hope we can come to agreement to not talk about what is legal or illegal. So far as I understand, the options are leaving this part out or contacting WMF legal. Do you see other options?
  2. We can talk about Wikipedia conflict of interest rules. You called healthmonitor's edits "Undisclosed paid promo", but this person has disclosed their work affiliation on his user page and all over this talk page. In my opinion they are complying with disclosure policy beyond what the Wikipedia community expects. This person has been responsive to feedback for weeks in a way that I have rarely see as compared to problem contributors listed at WP:COIN. Beyond disclosure on the user page and this talk page, what more do you request? Also - this person is not an official representative of the organization. They are presenting themselves as someone with a work affiliation who is a fan of the organization, which is different than being an official PR spokesperson. Healthmonitor has been very human in conversation and not at all like the usual uncompromising corporate brick wall.
  3. Assuming that we put aside discussing legal issues, and assuming that we can keep compliance with disclosure guidelines, what do you have to say about the content? I have already critiqued a bit of it as it was slowly developed. Healthmonitor kept some things and removed others. All of the changes can be discussed, but to do this I would like to get to a point where we confirm that the user is acting in compliance so that the content can be considered for what it is. How can we examine the content? Do you want it copied here to the talk page and considered piecewise? Should we consider it from the edit history? I do not intend to burden you with reviewing the content, especially when you have doubts about it, but if there is a review process, I want it to happen in a way that makes you feel safe in a process which has Wikimedia community support. How would you feel about considering the content by section, and my seeking feedback from WP:COIN, WP:HOSPITAL, and maybe WP:MED? Blue Rasberry (talk) 11:48, 14 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Restore

Also see "Cleveland Clinic", COIN.

Would anyone object to the restoration of the article as it stood on (I believe) October 13, 2015? That was a version that was shorn of any references that sourced books, magazines, or websites controlled by the subject of the article, in response to editor Elvey's comments. HealthMonitor —Preceding undated comment added 14:17, 15 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In this edit at the conflict of interest noticeboard discussion, Slimvirgin advised using {{edit request}} to propose changes. SV said "the best way forward is to break the rewrite down into individual edit requests", which I am doing below. Can anyone who has criticism for these sections please speak up? Blue Rasberry (talk) 00:08, 19 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Propose to add this content from HealthMonitor Blue Rasberry (talk) 00:08, 19 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have moved this to Talk:Cleveland Clinic/edit requests, because it was overwhelming this page. Please see WP:COITALK. The best thing is for HealthMonitor to post his draft on a user subpage, such as User:HealthMonitor/Cleveland Clinic, then to break it down into individual edit requests on this talk page. But do it separately: gain consensus for one issue, add it to the article or not, move onto the next issue, and so on. Otherwise it is too much for people to check all at once. Sarah (talk) 00:39, 19 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Let's start with this. Thoughts, anyone?

Extended content

== History == Early Beginnings

George Washington Crile, MD, one of the four founders of Cleveland Clinic.
Cleveland Clinic grew out of the surgical practice of Frank J. Weed, MD, at 16 Church Street on the near west side of Cleveland.[1] Dr. Weed died in 1891.[2] The practice was purchased by his two assistants, Frank E. Bunts, MD, and George Washington Crile, MD. In 1892, they brought Dr. Crile’s cousin, William E. Lower, MD, into the practice.[3] In 1897, they moved their practice to the Osborn Building on Prospect Avenue in downtown Cleveland.[1][4] Crile, Lower and Bunts all became professors at Cleveland medical schools, and each would be elected president of the Academy of Medicine.[5]

Dr. Crile organized the American military hospital in Paris in 1915, and later led the United States Army Base Hospital No. 4, in Rouen, France. It was the first contingent of the United States Army to see active duty in Europe during the First World War.[6][7] Dr. Bunts and Dr. Lower also served in the Rouen hospital. Dr. Lower later wrote of his admiration for the "teamwork and efficient organization" of military medicine.[8] In his autobiography, Dr. Crile reports that while in France, the three doctors discussed starting a new medical center in Cleveland upon their return.[7][9]

First years of operation.

A four-story outpatient building was constructed on the purchased land. Cleveland Clinic was dedicated at a private ceremony on February 26, 1921.[10] William Benson Mayo, MD, of the Mayo Clinic, delivered the main address.[9][11] On February 28, 1921, Cleveland Clinic opened its doors to the public and registered 42 patients.[5] In April 1921, Cleveland Clinic had 60 employees, including 14 physicians, four nurses, a telephone operator, six cleaners, 22 clerical workers, an art department, and an unknown number of laboratory technicians. In 1922, the founders purchased four private homes nearby for hospitalization, radiation treatment, and administration.[12] A fifth house was acquired as a residence for patients with diabetes receiving insulin treatments.[12][13] To meet rising patient volume, a 184-bed hospital was built in 1924, located at East 90th Street and Carnegie Avenue.[14] A power plant, laundry, and ice plant were also built.[12][15] A research laboratory was constructed in 1928.[12][16]

Disaster and Recovery

On May 15, 1929, nitrocellulose x-ray films stored in the basement of the outpatient building ignited.[17][18][19] An explosion sent a cloud of toxic oxides of nitrogen and carbon though the building. One hundred and twenty-three people lost their lives, including founder Dr. Phillips. A dozen investigating agencies were not able to determine a single cause for the Cleveland Clinic fire of 1929.[18] Cleveland Clinic’s own inquiry narrowed the possible causes down to three: spontaneous combustion caused by heat; a discarded cigarette or match; contact with an extension cord light hung over a stack of films.[18]

Philanthropist Samuel Mather formed a committee of 36 community leaders to help Cleveland Clinic reestablish itself in temporary quarters across the street.[18][20][21] Patient care services resumed five days later.[20] The 1921 building was completely renovated, and a new three story clinic building, with a new main entrance, was added in 1931.[18] All debts were repaid by 1941.[22]

The years 1941-1989

Dr. Crile and Dr. Lower relinquished their administrative duties in 1941.[15] In 1942, Cleveland Clinic’s Naval Reserve Unit, which included George Crile, Jr., MD, son of one of the founders, established a mobile hospital in New Zealand to treat wounded from the Guadalcanal Campaign.[23]

Growth of Specialization

Cine-coronary angiography was developed at Cleveland Clinic by F. Mason Sones, MD, in the late 1950s.[24]

Leadership

In 1954, Cleveland Clinic formally adopted governance by a physician-led Board of Governors. The nine physician governors are elected by the physician staff. They work with the CEO and lay administrators to formulate and carry out policy, overseen by a board of directors and board of trustees[25][22] This is a list of the chairman of the Board of Governors, and their terms of office:

  • Fay Lefevre, MD, 1954-1968
  • Carle E. Wasmuth, MD, 1968-1973
  • William S. Kiser, MD, 1973-1989
  • Floyd D. Loop, MD, 1989-2004
  • Delos M. Cosgrove, MD, 2004–present.[15][26]

Organization

Up until 2007, Cleveland Clinic's the largest organizational unit was the division, with the hierarchy being: division > department > section. There was a Division of Medicine, Division of Surgery, Division of Anesthesiology, etc.[27] Within each division were departments (Department of Infectious Disease, Department of Cell Biology, etc.).[27] Within each department were sections, (Section of Headache and Facial Pain, Section of Metastatic Disease, etc.). Divisions and departments were led by chairs, and section were led by heads.[27] In 2007, Cleveland Clinic reorganized patient care services around disease and organ-system-based institutes.[27][28][29]

Growing Facilities

Cleveland Clinic built new operating rooms in the early 1970s to accommodate the growth of cardiac surgery. [15] The Martha Holding Jennings Education Building opened in 1964, with an auditorium named for Dr. Bunts. A new hospital building (currently home to Cleveland Clinic Children’s) was opened in 1966, and a new research building went up in 1974 (demolished in 2007).[15] A pathology and laboratory medicine building was constructed on Carnegie Avenue in 1980.[27]

Cleveland Clinic Taussig Cancer Institute.
Dr. Kiser led the development of a strategic plan to accommodate growing patient volumes in the late 1970s. This resulted in a group of buildings known as the Century Project. Completed in 1985, the Century Project including a 14-story outpatient building (now known as the Crile Building), designed by architect Cesar Pelli,[30].
  1. ^ a b Journal of Postgraduate Medical Education, The Life and Times of George Washington Crile, RA Kazi, 2003, Volume, 49 , Issue 3, pp. 289-290. Retrieved from http://www.jpgmonline.com/article.asp?issn=0022-3859;year=2003;volume=49;issue=3;spage=289;epage=290;aulast=Kazi, August 25, 2015
  2. ^ Shock, Physiological Surgery and George Crile, Peter C. English, Greenwood Press, 1980, p. 62
  3. ^ The history of urology in Cleveland, Ohio, KP Sajadi and HB, Goldman, Urology. 2010 Dec;76(6):1293-7. Retrieved from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20810152, August 25, 2015
  4. ^ Retrieved from http://www.whonamedit.com/doctor.cfm/1959.html, August 25, 2015
  5. ^ a b Creating Cleveland Clinicby Brad Clifton and Jessica Carmosino, retrieved from http://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/603, on August 29, 2015
  6. ^ The Lakeside Unit: Cleveland Medicine in World War Ihttp://lakesideunit.com, retrieved August 29, 2015
  7. ^ a b George Crile, George Crile, An Autobiography, edited by Grace Crile, 2 Vol. (Philadelphia and New York: Lippincott, 1947),274-80.
  8. ^ Surgery, Subspecialization and Science: A History of Urology at the Cleveland Clinic, 1921-2000, Mark D. Bowles and Virginia P. Dawson, Cleveland Clinic Foundation, History Enterprises, Inc., 2000, p. 19
  9. ^ a b Hospital Built Upon Service, Milwaukee Journal, May 16, 1929, page 2. Retrieved from https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19290516&id=H5pQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wCEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5944,1367390&hl=en, on August 26, 2015
  10. ^ Retrieved from http://blog.cleveland.com/medical/2008/09/07CGCLINICTIME.pdf, August 26, 2015
  11. ^ The Emergence of the Egaltarian OrganizationHuman Relations August 1986 vol. 39 no. 8 683-724
  12. ^ a b c d The Cleveland Clinic Foundation, by Amy Rowland, William Feather, 1938
  13. ^ Ohio Memory, Madeleine Bebout and the Nurses at Oxley Homes Photograph, caption. Retrieved from https://server16007.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/p267401coll36&CISOPTR=14140&CISOBOX=1&REC=2, on August 26, 2015
  14. ^ Cite error: The named reference encyc was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  15. ^ a b c d e Pathfinders of the Heart, the History of Cardiology at Cleveland Clinic, William C. Sheldon, Xlibris, 2008, p.60
  16. ^ Cleveland: The Making of a City, William Ganson Rose, 1950, Kent State University Press, p.1011
  17. ^ The Repository (Canton)A Deadly Combo; X-ray films burn noxious fumes at Cleveland Clinic, July 14, 2014
  18. ^ a b c d e They Died Crawling: And other Tales of Cleveland Woe, John Stark Bellamy III, Gray & Company, 1995, pp218-232
  19. ^ Time Magazine, May 27, 1929, pp. 15-16
  20. ^ a b Plain Dealer123 Die in Clinic Disaster; Poison Gas Seeps into System; Explosion Rocks Building, August 23, 1998
  21. ^ Reading Times, May 17, 1929, p2
  22. ^ a b Profiles in Performance: Business Intelligence Journeys and the Roadmap for Change, Howard Dresner, Wiley & Sons, 2010, p. 57
  23. ^ The Way it Was. 1907-1987, Sex, Surgery, Treasure & Travel, George Crile, Jr., Kent State University Press, 1992, p.222
  24. ^ Hall, Robert J. (1985). "In Memoriam: F. Mason Sones, Jr., M.D". Texas Heart Institute Journal 12 (4): 356–358. PMC 341889
  25. ^ Cite error: The named reference kastor was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  26. ^ Med City News, The 50 Best Cleveland Clinic Doctors. Ever., December 24, 2011, retrieved from http://medcitynews.com/2011/12/the-50-best-cleveland-clinic-doctors-ever/, on September 11, 2015
  27. ^ a b c d e Harvard Business School, Cleveland Clinic:Growth Strategy 2014, Michael Porter and Elizabeth Teisberg, December 29, 2014, pp.4-5, retrieved from , on August 26, 2015
  28. ^ Crain’s Cleveland Business, In name of streamlined care, Clinic forms 26 institutes, November 05, 2007, retrieved from http://www.crainscleveland.com/print/article/20071105/FREE/311050037/in-name-of-streamlined-care-clinic-forms-26-institutes, August 26, 2015
  29. ^ Newsweek, What Health Reform can Learn from Cleveland Clinic, November 26, 2009, retrieved from http://www.newsweek.com/what-health-reform-can-learn-cleveland-clinic-76971, on August 26, 2015
  30. ^ retrieved from http://pcparch.com/project/crile-clinic, on August 26, 2015

Blue Rasberry (talk) 10:28, 19 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I requested comment at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Hospitals#development_of_Cleveland_Clinic. Blue Rasberry (talk) 23:59, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Facts Need Updating

The following paragraph in this article could be made more factual and up to date: "The Clinic has since then expanded overseas, with the phased opening in 2015 of Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi, constructed at the cost of approximately 1.5 billion USD. After completion, the Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi will become one of the largest medical centers in the Middle East. October 2015, The Cleveland Clinic will lease a building in London, United Kingdom creating Cleveland Clinic Europe."

Here are the reasons I think this paragraph should be changed: According to the source cited below, Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi is now fully open and operational. Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi and Shaikh Khalifa Medical City have their own substantial Wikipedia articles that cover their cost, services and ownership in detail. No reference to a "Cleveland Clinic Europe" can be found on the internet or Nexis.

May I suggest that an editor to replace the paragraph cited above with the paragraph below (or something like it):

"Cleveland Clinic has since then expanded overseas. Since 2007, Cleveland Clinic has managed Shaikh Khalifa Medical City (SKMC), in Abu Dhabi, for SEHA, the Abu Dhabi Health Services Company.[1] Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi, a specialty hospital and clinic, opened in 2015.[2][3] In October, 2015, Cleveland Clinic signed a long-term lease for a six-story office building at 33 Grosvenor Place in London, England. [4]"

I cannot do this myself because of a perceived conflict of interest.

Thank you HealthMonitor (talk) 19:40, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2013/04/cleveland_clinic_officials_say.html
  2. ^ http://www.thenational.ae/uae/health/two-more-departments-open-at-cleveland-clinic-abu-dhabi
  3. ^ http://www.thenational.ae/uae/hospitals/cleveland-clinic-abu-dhabi-now-fully-operational---video
  4. ^ http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2015/10/cleveland_clinic_to_open_health_care_facility_in_pricey_central_london.html
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cleveland_Clinic&oldid=688120706"