Talk:Nadsat

Is Nadsat really a constructed language? Unless Burgesss invented a whole lot more than there is in the book, I think not -- it's a set of slang words: as the article says "Nadsat is in fact not so much a language as a register". Objections / comments before I go ahead? -- Tarquin 11:22 Jan 8, 2003 (UTC)

It's not a language, but it is constructed... See if you can somehow stress this in the definition paragraph. --Gabbe 12:24 Jan 8, 2003 (UTC)

Also, is 'Cutter' Nadsat? Only the tramp in the movie uses it (can yer spare some cutter?), and this is supposed to be Alex and co's language - Daveryan 22:17 17 Jun 2003 (UTC).

Cutter is used a lot in the book as money. The nadsat is much more abundant, making it very hard to read for the first couple chapters. --24.51.94.14 23:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes "Cutter" is also Nadsat and means "money". Here is the full list of Nadsat words trnaslated to english (from: www.sparknotes.com )

--B--

Baboochka: old woman Bezoomny: crazy Bitva: battle Bog: god Bolshy: big Bratty, brat: brother Britva: razor

--C--

Cal: shit Cancer: cigarette Carman: pocket Chasha: cup Chasso: guard Cheena: woman To cheest: to wash Chelloveck: guy Chepooka: nonsense Collocoll: bell To crast: to steal To creech: to scream Cutter: money

--D--

Deng: money Devotchka: girl Dobby: good To drats: to fight Droog, droogie: friend

--F--

To filly: to play

--G--

Glaz, glazz, glazzy: eye Gloopy: stupid Golly: coin Goloss: voice Goober: lip To gooly: to go To govoreet: to talk, speak Grahzny: dirty Grazzy: dirty Groody: breast Gulliver: head

--H--

Horrorshow: good Hound-and-horny: common

--I--

To itty: to go

--J--

Jeezny: life

--K--

Kleb: bread Klootch: key Koshka: cat Krovvy: blood To kupet: to buy

--L--

Lewdies: people Lighter: drinker Litso: face Lomtick: piece To lovet: to catch To lubbilub: to kiss

--M--

Malchick: boy Malenky: little Maslo: butter Messel: idea Mesto: place Milk-plus: milk laced with drugs Millicent: policeman Molodoy: young Moloko: milk Mounch: food Mozg: brain

--N--

Nadsat: teenager Nagoy: naked Neezhnies: panties Nochy: night Noga: foot, leg Nozh: knife

--O--

On one's oddy knocky: alone Okno: window To ookadeet: to leave Ooko: ear Oomny: smart Oozy: chain To osoosh: to wipe Otchkies, ochkies: glasses

--P--

To peet: to drink Pishcha: food To platch: to cry Platties: clothes Pletcho: shoulder Plott: body Pol: sex To pony: to understand Poogly: frightened Pooshka: pistol Pretty polly: money To prod: to produce Ptitsa: woman Pyahnitsa: drunk

--R--

To rabbit: to work Radosty: joy To make up one's rassoodock: to make up one's mind Raz: time Razdraz: angry Razrez: anger To razrez: to tear Rook, rooker: hand or arm Rot: mouth Rozz: policeman

--S--

Sabog: shoe Shaika: gang Sharp: woman Shest: barrier Shilarny: interest Shlaga: club, cudgel Shlapa: hat Shoom: noise Shoomny: loud Shoot: fool Sinny: cinema To skazat: to say Skorry: fast To skvat: to snatch Sladky: sweet To slooshy: to hear Slovo: word To smeck: laugh To smot: to see Sneety: dream To sobirat: to pick up To spat with: to have sex with Spatchka: sleep Starry: old

--T--

Tashtook: handkerchief To tolchock: to hit Twenty-to-one: violence

--U--

To do the ultra-violent: to rape

--V--

What was vareeting: what was up Veck: guy Veshch: thing To viddy: to see Von: smell To vred: to injure

--Y--

Yahma: hole Yahzick: tongue Yarbles: testicles To yeckat: to drive

--Z--

Zheena: wife Zooby: tooth

--- Как бы его по-русски назвать? "Надсат"? "Надцат"? В книге этот жаргон ведь никак не называется?

Filling in Ukrainian

I will add a few missing phrases in Ukrainian. Please feel free to change them to Russian for consistency, if there is a correspondence. —Michael Z. 2005-03-24 18:14 Z

Looks like Ëzhiki beat me to most it. I think creech comes directly from the verb krychaty (to yell), and razrez from rozrizaty (to cut apart). And vino is missing from the list, which probably comes from Russian and not Italian. Saika is a typo; it appears as shaika in the book. —Michael Z. 2005-03-24 19:18 Z

Vocabulary Section

There's already another article (Nadsat lexicon) which contains most of what's in the Vocabulary section, minus the word origins. I think it makes sense to move the Vocabulary section to the lexicon article and replace it with a link. Anyone agree? MFNickster 22:34, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"Functions of Nadsat"

I've removed, "(The above passage should be taken with a grain of salt... because whoever wrote it has no fucking idea what he or she is talking about)," from the end of this section in the article. If the author of the removed portion or anyone sharing his or her views would like to write a reasonable cautionary note in the section—one, hopefully, consisting of any sort of rationale and devoid of objectionable language—by all means do so. DTM 03:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I have to say that the "Functions" portion of the article isn't very encyclopedic; it's clearly opinion. If this represents a predominant critical view of the function of Nadsat in the novel, then references should be provided. --Starwed 22:37, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I have added more to the Functions section, and have critical views to back it up. If you look at the 2000 penguin classics edition of A Clockwork Orange, the introduction by Blake Morrison explains Burgess's intentions as regards to Nadsat. The Halo 1:17, 9 February 2006 (GMT)

Origins Contradiction?

Compare "It is a transliteration of the Russian suffix for 'teen'." to "The word 'nadsat' itself is the tail of Russian numerals from 11 to 19 (-надцать), a close parallel to the English 'teen'." These seem to contradict each other -- which one is the truth? -- Zawersh 01:14, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Somehow, reading it now, it doesn't contradict itself anymore. Oops. Disregard. :) -- Zawersh 07:48, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Not the name of the language

Nadsat is not the name of the language. This is a misunderstanding. Burgess uses the word Nadsat as he would use the word teen in english. He does not write anywhere that the boys speak Nadsat. The speak the Nadsat slang (i.e. the language of the Nadsat). It should be disambiguated in the article, that Nadsat is not the name of the language, but, at best, the name of the group of people that speak it.--Iago4096 13:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it more like Cockney rhyming slang as far as it is part of a language. In the book, Alex says to F. Alexander

'Oh, that', I said, 'is what we call nadsat talk. All the teens use that sir.'

Therefore, I don't think that we can say that it describes the people that use it, as it is actually a type of Slang rather than a language.

The Halo (talk) 14:12, 6 May 2006 UTC

Well, no. It is not the slang. Burgess uses the word nadsat as a attribute to connect things like (though not only) the language to the teens.

as in:

He didn't get nadsat-talk at all, so I said...

or:

..., dressed in the height of nadsat fashion.

I propose to change the name of the article to Nadsat-talk or something like that.--Iago4096 16:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, sorry for the late reply, I was rushed into hospital to have my appendix out, and then forgot about this discussion.

Secondly, I see what you mean, and you're right so far as Nadsat does mean more than just the language. However, Wikipedia naming conventions state that the article should be named after the most common use of the subject (see Sandis Ozolinsh, and it's talk page which explains that his name is actually Sandis Ozoliņš. However, because the western world knows him by Sandis Ozolinsh, that's what his article name is.), which is why I think the article should remain as Nadsat. The Halo (talk) 09:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

King James Bible influence

See here: [1] Jess Cully 23:51, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

gulliver

I only watched the film by Kubrick in german but I'm sure that gulliver isn't used in the sense of "head", although I think the similarity to the russian word голова is correct. I checked the "gulliver"-related content on the internet via google and most of the times "gulliver" is specified as "head" but you can also find some sources using it in the way I think is correct. Perhaps this confusion results from a wrong adaptation by Kubrick himself. I hope there are some real fans who can solve that question.

[evidence1 (german)]

The first paragraph says that they're protecting their "gullivers" with jockstraps.

[evidence2 (german)]

Here, the word "gulliver" appears in a list of alternative expressions for the german word "Penis".

evidence3:

"Yesterday we attacked this old man in the ally, he was being obnoxious, we hit got him right in the gulliver."

This is a quotation from the book. And for me, this seems to proof my point of view. The preposition "in" wouldn't be used in that sentence when refering to the head instead of the bail. It wasn't quite as easy to find english evidences. So I would asume that somehow the german synchronisation suggests my interpretation more explicitly.

84.178.220.233 23:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I thought this was just vandalism at first, but okay.

Evidence 1 is the best, but I don't remember that being in the original English version of the movie.

Evidence 2: I don't see what nadsat slang has to do with a list of German slang.

Evidence 3: they could be hitting him anywhere, and I think this is vague on purpose. The reader is supposed to find out what it means later, such as when a glass of beer is served with a gulliver. Every wordlist for nadsat I have ever seen (google "natsat gulliver" for example) has gulliver as head, you would think someone had picked up on it by now. Also, the russian word for head is golova, so there is really nothing to substantiate another meaning. I will change it back to head, as it should be. 138.227.189.10 06:52, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

First of all you have to differ between the film and the book. I don't doubt that gulliver means head in the book because I found laods of quotations that allow only this translation. But if you look at the film - at least the german version (I'll watch it in both languages as soon as possible to get certitude.) - circumstances are diverse. Further, "gulliver" appearing in a list of german slang words in sense of "Penis" is relevant. This is everything but a common expression and is descending apparently from clockwork orange. Of course it's a rather dinky topic but I like the film and I am confident about my standpoint. So don't feel pissed and try to get rid of me. "What you say sounds reasonably, but... You are wrong cause I am right!" (analogously)