Talk:List of fantasy anime

Shameful

This was the single most shameful anime page on Wikipedia by far. What the HELL were these doing on the list?!:

Noir Neon Genesis Evangelion La Blue Girl Speed Grapher Silent Mobius

These and other idiotic additions I removed.24.239.162.116 00:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Great Teacher Onizuka

Is Great Teacher Onizuka fantasy anime? It seems to me mostly realistic, with very little in the way of fantasy elements. Giles Martin (talk) 18:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Having read some of the manga, I can say definitely not (unless the anime diverges wildly from the manga). 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 20:16, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Fantasy Definition

There seems to be alot of issues on this page depending on how you interpret "fantasy" Looking at it from a purly magical perspective ALOT of anime here isn't magic related or in a fantasy setting I suggest we set up a clearly defined difinition at the top of the page then stick to it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.132.164.214 (talk) 07:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this page is in dire need of cleanup, starting from a solid definition of what exactly "fantasy" means here (more than likely, it'll be according to the infobox genre in articles - if it's not tagged fantasy there, it shouldn't be here, but it definitely needs a discussion). 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 21:24, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Given this is part of a series of fantasy articles/lists (which, curiously, omits fantasy manga), WikiProject Science Fiction needs to be added to the list's scope. What with the definition in Fantasy being the operative one here. —Quasirandom (talk) 21:06, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

One of my criteria is to have some Mythopoeia (genre) vibrations. It's not a mandatory one to be a Fantasy anime. --KrebMarkt 15:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

We can pretty much define any magical girl work as fantasy (though not necessarily works with magical girlfriends, as some of those are aliens, robots, time travelers, Haruhi Suzumiya, et cet.). —Quasirandom (talk) 18:02, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Why not just go for the definition found in the lead of the article Fantasy? Magic and other supernatural forms as primary element of plot, theme and/or setting. Sven Lotz (talk) 09:19, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

That's a possibility, yeah. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:07, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Further issues

In addition to the issues identified in the PROD, there's also a couple of series, such as Fushigi Yūgi Genbu Kaiden, that are manga only, and not anime. That said, I'm not entirely certain that scrapping the list is the best option, and that clean-up (including adding missing series from Category:Fantasy anime and manga) is impossible. (And PROD2 is certainly wrong in claiming it's a directory.) Is this list really that badly damaged by mismaintenance? —Quasirandom (talk) 21:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I see no reason not to broaden this list's scope to include manga; there certainly doesn't seem to be any reason to purposely omit manga-only series. Aside from that, though, there seem to be a few IP editors who come through every now and then and purposely add series that have nothing to do with fantasy (and one who seems to enjoy adding United States live-action series). 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000} 20:17, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

So it sounds like what's needed, really, is ... well, not ownership, as that's verboten on Wikipedia, but commitment from a couple conservators to maintain the list. Or a commitment from the relevant wikiprojects to patrol it. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:50, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Cleaning up this list is actually on my to-do list (after which I would watch it much more closely), but I have no idea how I'd actually go about it - for starters, though, I would start a discussion on WT:ANIME to see what the project wants out of the list. 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000} 20:58, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd take part in that discussion. In any case, though, given we're debating how to clean it up, it seems clear that a PROD deletion is too controversial. I'd like to deprod it, take it to the project to get a discussion started with the participation of WikiProject Science Fiction, and if with more input it's decided to wash our hands instead, take it to AfD with that recommendation. —Quasirandom (talk) 21:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

TBD

Things to Be Done, as I see it:

• Weed out false entries.
• Fill in missing entries from Category:Fantasy anime and manga and its subcategories.
• Decide whether it's possible to distinguish between fantasy and supernatural genres and, if not, include the latter category's entries as well.
• Expand the lead to include a definition of what we mean by "fantasy" in this list.
• Expand the lead to summary of incorporate scholarly discussions of the uses of fantasy in anime. Google Books will be helpful here, as would comments in anime/manga guides. And scholarly comments about fantasy in Japan in general.
• Sourcing the entries to prove by publisher claim (for something like this, a first-party source is acceptable as indicative of intension) or third-party evaluation that each work is, yes, fantasy.

Also on the table, whether to expand the topic subject to include manga. Anything else? —Quasirandom (talk) 14:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

For starter we should focus on a minimal common denominator for that list & the lead. --KrebMarkt 14:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

After some thought, I'm beginning to wonder whether a list of titles is desirable at all? Perhaps we should recast this as an encyclopedic article on the use of fantasy elements in anime (manga *should* be included IMO, but I suppose it would be better to specifically discuss broadening the scope to include it)... 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000} 17:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

It is certainly worth discussion -- leaving the categories as See also for additional examples. —Quasirandom (talk) 18:08, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Supernatural

@Marlin Setia1:: First of all, InuYasha is not a supernatural series. It's squarely in the fantasy realm.

To everyone else: since when did Marlin Setia1 and Edward321 get to determine whether supernatural was or was not fantasy? Everything I've ever seen places it in fantasy, including our own definition of fantasy. It would be helpful if we could be consistent, and also not have two people control everything in this list. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 02:04, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

My two cents? Delete each and every un-sourced entry that describes a series belonging to category x. The problem is one editor sees it as a pear, the other one sees it as an apple but there is no way to prove who is right. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:10, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm basing it off the description of each entry. Anything involving magic, the supernatural, and related topics, is fantasy. If there is a question about a particular series, it can be discussed here, but people shouldn't be enforcing their particular view of fantasy on everyone else. We run things by consensus here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 02:15, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

I know what you are saying is true, but it is set much more in stone when there is a reference to back it up. You don't have to reference all the titles, just the ones that are contested. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:22, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Additionally, Baka and Test sounds like a fantasy series to me, based on the description. Basilisk is absolutely a fantasy series, as is Beyond the Boundary. Black Butler is dark fantasy, so it qualifies.

Several of the titles removed are science fantasy, so they probably qualify to remain on the list. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 02:15, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

You said "also not have two people control everything in this list", its because no one else care about this page, i mean, Edward321 always reverts anything fantasy with a prefix (for example, Science fantasy), and no one takes any action to revert him (even its clearly contains "Fantasy" on their genre). So, because no one is reverts him, i think that should be right.

And for Supernatural or anything involving magic is fantasy or not, same reason as above (because i dunno honestly). Marlin Setia1 (talk) 02:45, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

That doesn't make it ok to revert the addition of fantasy anime on the grounds that they are also part of another sub-genre. And Glen Cavaliero in The Supernatural and English Fiction (1995 Oxford University Press) does verify that supernatural fiction is part of the fantasy genre. That said, the list is in a horrible mess and needs some work on sourcing. This sourcing can also be applied to the individual articles themselves. —Farix (t | c) 03:36, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

I have never reverted an fantasy anime on the grounds it was also part of another sub-genre. On the other hand, I have viewed something that was supernatural as a separate genre from fantasy. If consensus is that that supernatural is a subgenre of fantasy, I am fine with that, so long as it is applied consistently. Likewise, if consensus is that "science fantasy" is a subgenre of fantasy, I am okay with that, but I have always considered "science fantasy" to be a subgenre of "science fiction". Looking at the specific examples mentioned, Beyond the Boundary and Black Butler are clearly supernatural. Again, I consider that a separate genre from fantasy, but if consensus says it is a subgenre of fantasy, I am fine with that. Basilisk is a story about ninja using high powered and often strange techniques. To me, that is a martial arts story, not a fantasy, unless you're using the term "fantasy" so broadly as to include all fiction. The description in the article for Baka and Test does sound like fantasy, but the abilities used are all technological in nature. Edward321 (talk) 05:33, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Supernatural has been considered a sub-genre of fantasy for as long as I am aware. And yes, while science fantasy is a sub-genre of science fiction, it is also a sub-genre of fantasy. It is possible to be both. Extremely exaggerated martial arts, where the martial arts techniques being used are clearly beyond anything naturally realistic, would be considered fantasy. I will defer to others on Baka and Test as I have never seen any of it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 07:25, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

It's not a matter of "consensus agreeing" but that reliable sources already establishing that supernatural is a blend of the fantasy and horror genres. I've already provided the Cavaliero reference that was on the article on supernatural fiction. The article on science fantasy references Peter Nicholls' The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction to back the claim that science fantasy is a blend of the science fiction and fantasy genres, so this isn't a mater of original research by editors. Now whether a work falls within any of these three genres needs references, but that a work is "science fantasy" or "supernatural" does not exclude it from this list. —Farix (t | c) 12:19, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

This is what I have been saying, it is WP:OR to throw anime into categories. I know some have strong opinions on it because of the fact but this wont stop other editors down the line contesting other editor opinions. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:12, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Shouldn't we just go with whatever genre reliable sources state? From the looks of things this is a problem regarding interpretation of a series, which constitute WP:OR. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:47, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

That is probably why TheFarix added the original research and unreferenced tags to the article over a year ago. I'm still unclear why Nihonjoe recently removed the original research tag, almost the entire list lacks sources. Edward321 (talk) 14:54, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Did you bother reading the edit summary when I removed it? It very clearly explains why. Tag individual entries if you disagree with something being on the list. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:42, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Another thought - if any show where the "martial arts techniques being used are clearly beyond anything naturally realistic" is considered fantasy, then are there any martial arts anime that wouldn't be considered fantasy? Edward321 (talk) 15:03, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Again one would have to dive into research, my thoughts are that real and fictional elements are combined to give some series the impression of realism. Other series such as Ojamajo Doremi that involve High fantasy are more straightforward. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:12, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

High fantasy would be more like Record of Lodoss War. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:42, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

I would agree with the supernatural being a subgenre of fantasy, as with "mecha" and "science fiction", and that it can be listed as a genre with reliable resources. I'm assuming it would be the context of a natural world as casting spells in a magic-based universe isn't really supernatural. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 22:53, 18 November 2015 (UTC)