Talk:Rachael Heyhoe Flint

Untitled

Please see non-copyvio at Rachael_Heyhoe-Flint/Temp. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

• Temp page moved to main article. RedWolf 07:28, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move Orlady (talk) 04:56, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

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Rachael Heyhoe Flint → Rachael Heyhoe Flint, Baroness Heyhoe Flint.

Oppose - Known widley as a Cricketer and not as a Peer. Known widely by her untitled name and no disambiguation for the article title is required.--Lucy-marie (talk) 14:54, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Support. WP:NCPEER is quite clear. This peeress is no longer wholly or exclusively known by her pre-peerage nomenclature. Kittybrewster ☎ 15:15, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Oppose, this proposed title sounds quite nonsensical and pointless. Again, as with all of these proposed changes (and it's disappointing to see Kitty making these kinds of moves unilaterally knowing them to be controversial, without proposing them first), if WP:NCPEER is telling us to do them like this, it simply shows that there's something wrong with WP:NCPEER, it doesn't carry any weight as an argument.--Kotniski (talk) 16:25, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose in the strongest possible terms for consistency in naming per policy and guidelines like WP:COMMONNAME, WP:TITLE, WP:D and WP:PRECISION that apply to all Wikipedia article titles. The subject is most commonly known by the current title; adding peerage information is additional precision that is completely unnecessary, all good reasons to ignore WP:NCPEER. --Born2cycle (talk) 20:15, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:37, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Rachael Heyhoe Flint → Rachael Heyhoe-Flint —

• It's with a hyphen Mr. D. E. Mophon (talk) 20:04, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
• Comment - needs discussion, from 1/27 move summary: surname and peerage title both unhyphenated, according to London Gazette and House of Lords. – ukexpat (talk) 20:51, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I see it, and I'm flabbergasted! According to the London Gazette (the official newspaper for announcing new titles) she received indeed the title Baroness Heyhoe Flint (without the hyphen) by the surname Heyhoe Flint! See: [1]. That's rather bizarre... because double surnames are allways hyphenated in the peerage titles according to protocol! Believe me when I say that I have checked all other titles on Wikipedia, until I stumbled on the site Rachael Heyhoe Flint. As far as I know, she would be rather unique in recent history to be the only one whose double surname is not hyphenated in a peerage title, as far as I know! Did they make an error in the gazette? Concerning her surname: when she received her OBE, her surname is hyphened again in the same London Gazette ("Rachael, Mrs. Heyhoe-Flint")!! See: [2]. Number 10 and the House of Lords also show her surname with a hyphen, see [3] and [4]. What's going on here? Mr. D. E. Mophon (talk) 05:11, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree. I suspect it's a mistake in the London Gazette (certainly not uncommon). Andrew Lloyd Webber (without a hyphen) became Lord Lloyd-Webber (with a hyphen) for that very reason - peerage titles are always hyphenated if they include more than one word (unless they're "of Foo"). -- Necrothesp (talk) 22:07, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Interestingly, her name is not hyphenated in Who's Who. The latest edition came out before she was elevated to the peerage, so her title obviously isn't listed, although that by convention should be hyphenated. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't now how trustworthy it is, but according to cricketarchive.com the name of her husband is Derrick Flint; however, the name of her son is Ben G Heyhoe-Flint! Thus also with the double-barrelled and hyphenated surname "Heyhoe-Flint"!! That is rather peculiar, see: [5]. She and her son must have changed their surnames... or is it in the UK possible as child to take the surname of the father and mother combined? Mr. D. E. Mophon (talk) 13:17, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, you can call yourself what you like! The name on your birth certificate, however, and therefore your name for official purposes, will be either your father's (usually) or your mother's (usually only if illegitimate and the mother wants nothing to do with the father) surname. The only way to officially change it thereafter is by legal marriage or deed poll. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:04, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Her books, as here (both front cover and introduction text), seem to use the unhyphenated form.--Kotniski (talk) 11:42, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

• Comment Looks like it should stay as is. I still don't believe her peerage title is unhyphenated, but that's not an issue for the article title. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:54, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Do we have a reliable source for the hyphenated peerage title? Otherwise I think we have to stick with what the Gazette and the HoL website say (though I note the latter gives her surname hyphenated but the title unhyphenated, which is surely the strangest combination of all).--Kotniski (talk) 14:22, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Hm, wait a minute, the book is from 1978? That's more than 30 years ago? Quite recently, the House of Lords and Number 10 show her name with a hyphen, both highly official sources. And her son also has the double-barrelled and hyphenated surname. Could it be that her surname is changed, with a hyphen? Please, look to these sources as well, before careless discarding these highly official sources.

I agree with Necrothesp, the peerage title must be hyphenated. Mr. D. E. Mophon (talk) 14:53, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

But it needs more than just our opinions - do we have a source for the hyphen in the peerage title? (I agree that usage as regards the surname is pretty mixed, though for this sort of thing I would rather look at the name that appears on the subject's own published work rather than rely on a few third-party sources that probably haven't paid much attention to the question of the hyphen.) --Kotniski (talk) 16:27, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree, we have to find sources... Difficulty, because the highly official London Gazette shows the peerage tile without the hyphen. By the way, when she received her OBE, her surname is hyphened again in the same London Gazette!! (See the text above) So we can't be certain her surname is without it. What a mess... Mr. D. E. Mophon (talk) 16:44, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.