Talk:Track and field

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Here is the basic draft I have been working on for track and field. Certainly, there are plenty of improvements to be made and many red links to create articles for. Anyone looking to add information about road running and cross country events should add that information to either the specific articles or to the parent Athletics (sport) article. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)^{Join WikiProject Athletics!} 11:33, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

• For ease of discussion, let us use Talk:Athletics (sport) to discuss whether we should have both a track and field and an athletics article, or whether would should have just one combined article. This talk page should be used to discuss improvements to the track and field article. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)^{Join WikiProject Athletics!} 11:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

• Agreed; I've moved the earlier discussion from here to there accordingly. jnestorius^(talk) 13:18, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Details

Many of the descriptions of the events, particularly under Stadia are extremely detailed. They might follow the ideal stadium layout of the IAAF's diagram, but in reality, most facilities have some exceptions. For example, here in the United States, with the advent of Artificial turf, many throwing events have been relegated to adjacent fields, many jumping events sent to the end zones. Even without those limitations, architects frequently take liberties so the IAAF diagram is just a dream. Thusly, the article has been so overly generous with the details that it is misleading. I'll probably be editing out those details. The first detail that is particularly bothersome is the statement that a cage "removes" the danger. Sorry, you can see from my bio I am a track official. We've had spectators, competitors and fellow officials hurt or killed by flying implements. It is always dangerous to have flying heavy and sharp projectiles. I am sensitive to this. Its irresponsible of us to mislead the public to think they are safe behind a cage. You must always pay attention. Trackinfo (talk) 05:41, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

high school 300 meter hurdles

If I am not mistaken, high schools are running 300 meter hurdles in lieu of the 400 meter hurdles.Plantedpotroast (talk) 20:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

You are correct, that is an American High School modification. Lots of other divisions also make modifications. This article is written from the perspective of International competition, the top level of the sport. We could spend a lot of space trying to explain all those various modifications, or make separate articles to describe those divisions, but that level of detail doesn't seem practical for the main article. Trackinfo (talk) 04:38, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree. However, such information would be relevant to a prospective sub-article such as Track and field in the United States or Collegiate track and field. These do not yet exist, but I think they are both certainly topic areas worth exploring in future. SFB 19:05, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: rough consensus opposing the move. Andrewa (talk) 04:31, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

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Track and field → Track and field athletics — The main name of the sport is Athletics, so it should be included in the title of the article. Outside of America, the term used is generally athletics on its own. For instance the international governing body is called the International Association of Athletics Federations. The article for the world championship is named IAAF World Championships in Athletics. An alternative would be something like Athletics (track and field). --Cjc13 (talk) 13:20, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I disagree. This sport is overwhelmingly known as track and field, even a quick Google search reveals a difference of almost ten million hits for track and field, while track and field athletics garners just 84,000 hits. I understand your point about other "track" sports and field sports made here, but this is not a matter for misunderstanding or disambiguation. This is akin to saying American football should be changed because it could mean any form of football in America. While that interpretation is possible, it is also unlikely to arise as an issue of comprehension. Track and field is the most common name by which the subject of the article is known and should remain at the current title. SFB 19:50, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

• Comment The sport is not overwhelmingly known as track and field; it is universally know as athletics. Repeat that Google search for Track and field excluding Wikipedia, and you will get about 41 million hits. Do the search for Athletics excluding Wikipedia and you will get about 297 million hits. I haven't checked all 297 million, but the first couple of pages all link to what would also be called track and field. However, on Wikipedia the article on Athletics also includes Road running, Cross country running and Race walking, so disambiguation is required for the specific article here. While track and field may be a common abbreviation in the North America, and even in the wider athletics community, it is pretty meaningless to the general public in the rest of the world unless the word athletics is included. On balance, I think I would favour a move to Track and field athletics, but to be honest, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it! Skinsmoke (talk) 13:37, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
• Comment. There does seem to be an ambiguity to the term "Track and field". In USA, it is used to mean athletics as a whole, see USA Track and Field, whereas here it is being used to exclude athletic events such as cross country running and racewalking. Cjc13 (talk) 15:43, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose The level of confusion over the term "athletics" may overwhelm a vast majority of readers, especially in the United States, which gets the highest level of readership. Track and Field is generally understood to be "athletics" in most other English speaking countries.--Jojhutton (talk) 15:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. As has been discussed elsewhere on many occasions, "track and field" falls under the umbrella sport of "athletics". Calling it "track and field athletics" does not reflect its common usage in the United States or elsewhere, nor is the "athletics" portion needed for disambiguation purposes. The sport of athletics is governed by the USATF in the USA, but even they distinguish between track and field events and other sports that fall under the umbrella of athletics: "USA Track & Field (USATF) is the National Governing Body for track and field, long-distance running and race walking in the United States."[1] The point is that even in the USA, athletics is not synonymous with track and field. Location (talk) 16:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. This sport is not universally known as athletics – unless the US is no longer part of the universe? Athletics (sport) deals with that kind of athletics, as opposed to athletic sports in general. Track and field, XC and marathons etc are all considered to be sports within athletics in the European sense of the word. While track and field competitions are often referred to as simply "athletics" in Europe, this doesn't mean that track and field is the only form of athletics. Athletics is not solely track and field, just as in a similar way, not all rodents are rats. Alongside the broader athletics term, the phrase track and field is also used extensively in British English [2] to refer to this sport specifically, which excludes other forms such as cross country and road walking. Track and field is never used to mean the European sense of athletics in the US. One obvious dismissal of this view is that no American would consider cross country a form of track and field. SFB 22:01, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Start of Races on 400 Meter Tracks

I would like to know how the staggered lines are set on a 400 meter track for the starting od a race. If the staggering is based on the distance the runner on the outside lane has to run before getting to the cut in line, then it is unfair to the outside runner. The outside runner has to angle in to the inside lane which takes time the runner is already at the same line. If this is the case, it is only fair that the staggering of the lines include the time it takes to go from the outside lane to the inside lane at an angle. Without this adjustment, the runner(s) on each lane closer to the frst lane are given an unfair advantage.

Please email me how the staggered lines are determined. My email address is: (redacted).

Thank You,

Carl F. Zielke — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.23.27.222 (talk) 19:53, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Where the runners cut in, if at all, depends on the race. A properly marked track takes into account the adjustments to which you refer: http://www.iaaf.org/mm/Document/Competitions/TechnicalArea/04/63/95/20081202044225_httppostedfile_Fig_2.2.1.6a_Marking_Outdoor_7462.pdf . Location (talk) 20:15, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Terminology

The section 'Requested Move' makes for an interesting read. The impression I get from its main points is there's really no such sport as 'track and field'. The sport is (evidently) called 'athletics'. The governing body in the US simply rebranded itself (1992?), introducing the term 'track and field'. And all that's happened since, on the assumption that this must mean something, is that some have reasoned that track and field refers to events within the stadium, while (taking note of the admin responsibilities of IAAF) the term athletics is believed to cover events within and outside. But apart from speculation, nothing seems to support this distinction. In the US and the world over a single governing body administers all these activities under one roof. Most obviously at the Olympics and the World Athletics Champs no distinction is made between events inside the stadium and events outside (race walks, marathon). Essentially there's nothing called 'track and field' at either of those competitions. At the end of the day 'track and field' is just a synonym for athletics, sometimes used as if to refer to events with an athletics stadium exclusively. Basically guys, that definition is really all this article needs to consist of, it seems to me. Hakluyt bean (talk) 02:07, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Rules section

Large parts of the rules section appear to be copied word for word from the IAAF rule book (since it's creation and merge from Rules of track athletics). Although the rule book doesn't appear to be subject to copyright (it is not stated on the published version), it is less than ideal for us to simply copy the information. We should be summarising the points for a general audience – leave the most technical aspects for the rule book which we've given a link for. This section will need a complete rewrite at some point. SFB 15:35, 13 April 2013 (UTC)