Talk:Rathore dynasty

Copyvio

ImpuMozhi: Please provide the URL from which the information in the copyvio was copied from. Otherwise you will have to revert. --BWD ^(talk) 03:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Definitive proof was provided. --BWD ^(talk) 04:31, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Lt Gen Thakur Nathusingh Rathore

He ensured that an Indian person was heading the Indian army by opposing the then Prime Minister Nehru who wanted a british officer to head "Independent" India's Army. He turned down the offer to become the First chief of Army of Independent India in favour of his senior Gen Cariappa out of respect for seniority. He had been recommended by outgoing british chief for the job and also by the then Defense minister Baldev Singh because of his exemplary record in the army. The current chief of Army VK Singh in his book talks at length about his exceptional courage, professionalism, Patriotism and military strategic talent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.97.215.181 (talk) 05:46, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

== Rathores ofRajasthan

==

There are well over a hundred thousand Rathores (or Rathurs) in Kashmir, and thousands of Kashmiri Rathores (or Rathurs) who migrated to Punjab or UP in past couple of centuries. Does someone have more details about them? How did they get to Kashmir? Are they all one group? Is the origin of Kashmiri Rathores (or Rathurs) seperate from Siyaji (the grandson of Jaichand)? What role did Jahangir's invasion of Kashmir play in the migration of Rajhastani Rathores to Kashmir?

Here is what I found about Kashmiri Rathores so far:

"Rathur or Rathore" [From pages 209 to 210 of Tawaareekh Aqwaam e Kashmir {Histories of the Tribes of Kashmir} by Muhammad Deen Fauq, written in 1934 A.D. ; Published by Nigarshat, 24 Muzang Road, Lahore, Pakistan, in 2003 A.D.]:

In the histories of Kashmir the recorded names Rathur, Raothore, Raitore, Raothur are in reality one; and all of these words are actually distorted forms of the name Rathore. Rathores are a well known tribe of the Rajputs. They used to be hindu, but now many of them are muslim. Sir Walter Lawrence has written in his book, Valley of Kashmir, that Rathurs are also one of those Shaikhs who converted from hindu Khashatris to islam. Chhatri, Khatri, and Khashatri are actually names of the same tribe, and they come from the preminent and marshall hindu race of Rajputs.

A book about Rajput tribes was published a few years ago by the name of, Rajput Gotain (Rajput Clans). It is written on page 15 of this book that "Janjua and Rathore are from the same family. These tribes are from the descendants of Jadu-Bansi Rajputs, which moved towards the salt mountain range after the death of Krishan Ji." Then on page 19 of the same book it is written that "The Rathores once conquered Bikaner and made the Bhattis run towards the plains of Punjab." Then on page 24 of the same book it is written that among the Rathores, Raja Mal Rathore was a very well known ruler. In the year 980 A.D. he emigrated from Jodhpur or Kannauj and established the settlement of Malot near Jhelum. One of Mal Rathore's sons was Joda, from whose name the word Janjua is derived. At one time the Janjua tribe ruled almost all the area near the Salt Mountains. But then a time came when the Gakhars came from the north and the Awans came from the west to push them out.

(note:With respect, I have researched this point and found this reference to be incorrect. Raja Mal's other sons, also founded Janjua clans in their areas, hence Janjua cannot be derived from Raja Joda. Also Raja Mal, though mentioned in the book as a Rathor prince, this is a phronetic mistake, as in Punjab, RaTHOR and THOAR are very similar sounding (the latter being ofcourse Tuar Rajputs), hence the named connection appears to wrongly attribute him to the Rathor. This is further confirmed since the Janjuas claim descent also from chandravanshi prince Arjun Pandava is compared successfully to the Tuar clan who also claims chandravanshi Arjun descent.)

In the same book on page 31 it is written that "This tribe (Rathore) is one of 36 Royal lines. It is from the Suraj-Bansi Rajputs. It's ancient head quarters was Kanauj. From there they spread to Marwara, Bikaner, and other locations."

Since when are people of the Rathore tribe in Kashmir? About this there is no reliable information. They were surely in Kashmir at the time of the ancient hindu rajas. Islam arrived in Kashmir around 1300 A.D., and around 1375 A.D. a muslim by the name of Shaikh Nasr-uddeen Raothur is mentioned in the history of Kashmir (According to Fauq's source for this information, Raothur means 'wrestler' or 'brave' in Kashmiri language). From this we are informed that along with other Kashmiri hindu tribes, the Rathores also accepted islam.

The writer of Taareekh Gulshane Kashmir {History of the Garden of Kashmir} has also said that Raothur is a distorted form of the name Rathore, and has written that these people are Chhatri Rajputs.

Taareekh Kabeer Kashmir, on page 293, mentions a Khwaja Haider Raitore. It is written that he "was the student of Mullah Habib Mir Adal (during the reign of Alamgir a.k.a. Aurangzeb, Mughal Emperor from 1658-1707 A.D.). Khwaja Haider Raitore benefited from the knowledge of many of the islamic scholars of India during his travels through India." Khwaja Haider is mentioned as Raitore instead of Rathur in this history, but it is in reality a distorted form of Rathore.

Taareekh Hassan, while mentioning the tribes of Shaikhs, or the land owning segment of society, writes that these Kashmiri Rajput tribes (Magray, Daangar, Naatak, Tanteray, Daar, Butt, Lone, and Rathur) have been soldiers, and made up the bulk of the armies, during the time of the ancient Kashmiri hindu rajas.

The census of 1911 A.D. shows that the population of Rathores in Jammu and Kashmir was 33,951 people. Of these Rathores, 2,545 lived in the province of Jammu, and only 126 lived in frontier districts. The rest of the 31,280 Rathores lived in the valley of Kashmir proper. After 20 years, in 1931 A.D. their population in the state was 39,725 persons. Of these Rathores, 17,960 were women, and 21,725 were men. Meaning that in 20 years, the population of Rathores increased by 5,774 people in the state.

The conditions that forced muslims and pandits of various tribes to migrate to Punjab, Delhi, or Lucknow during the reign of the Sikhs and Pathaans, were the same conditions that forced These people (Rathores) to emigrate from their country (Kashmir). This tribe, along with other refugee Kashmiri tribes, thought it best to go with the times and search for better opportunities elsewhere. (In exile), due to higher education, trade, and employment, Rathores occupy high positions and are well off. A few prominent families are mentioned in chapter 5.

In Kashmir, the greater part of the Raothur tribe is found in villages, and know no other trade except agriculture.

From pages 403 to 404 of Tawaareekh Aqwaam e Kashmir:

Fauq mentions the case of a Rathore family which migrated from Kashmir to Punjab and bought agricultural land near Gujranwala in 1930. After the payment was made, some government official refused to transfer the deed in the Rathore's name. The official's claim was that the Kashmiri migrants are not farmers, and this land is designated for purely agricultural purposes. The Rathore family sued the government official in court and made the argument that Rathores are Kashmiri Rajputs who know only farming, therefore there is no chance of the family being anything else other than farmers. The tax collector and other officials claimed that the plaintiff is pretending to be a Rathore just to gain possession of the land, and in fact he is just a Kashmiri migrant, as listed in official tax papers. When the plaintiff brought 11 witnesses and much older documents proving his ethnicity, the case was decided in his favor. The judge wrote in his decision that since the plaintiff has proved he is a Kashmiri Rathore, there can be no question in his claim to being a farmer, and the land must be transfered in his name.

Note: This is about our family. My great grandfather and his family bought land near Gujranwala ( village name uppall and taphai)and had to go to Court for getting it alloted in their name. As before that Kashmiris settlers were considered non kashtkars. Our elders were known as Chaudries. My grand father's name ' Ch Muhammed Kharaitullah' mentioned in Fauq's book. But with all lands sold we dont use chaudry any more although other in our family still use that prefix. Nazar Rauf Rathore — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nazarrathore (talk • contribs) 11:03, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Most Kashmiri Rathores who migrated to Punjab and adopted agriculture as their profession are now called Chaudhry. The term Chaudhry is used in central and northern Punjab to refer to a large land owner or village chief. These migrants no longer use the Rathore name, and have completely melted into their adopted culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.165.91.224 (talk) 15:24, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I have read this in our family tree book that our great grand fathers migrated from Baramula afetr Kashmir was sold for one hundred and seventy five thousand rupees in 1856 under Amritsar Treaty and settled in a Mora Burj,a village near Rawalpindi.Most of them started agriculture but their progeny got well educated and opted for other fields.Still few families of Rathores are living there in Mora Burj and there mean of living is agriculture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erathore (talk • contribs) 14:54, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Rathore/Rao Genealogy

That is one ugly table, and it doesn't seem to work. Have you considered making a graphic instead? pablo_hablo. 11:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC) "SHSHDARA ,BABERPUR GAV [DELHI]

                              KASHI RAM RATHOUR (JODHA RATHOUR) 

[(Present ROYAL in new delhi,SHAHDARA,VILLAGE BABBERPUR) LAL SINGH RATHOUR JIA CHAND RATHOUR JIA SINGH RATHOUR GOURAV RATHOUR PRATAP RSINGH RATHOUR SANDEEP RATHOUR

PRADEEP RATHOUR       RUDRANSH RATHOUR                               AKSHAT RATHOUR                              JOGANDER SINGH RATHOUR
HARSHIT RATHOUR       PAHALWAN AMAN RATHOUR                          ANKIT RATHOUR                                  
 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.74.97.57 (talk) 23:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC) 

Lists of names

Lists of names in this article should be sourced in accordance with WP:BLP. As there is no way of constantly maintaining linked articles, this applies to names which have a Wikipedia article as well as those that do not. Any name listed with no verifiable citations should be removed. Refer to WP:NLIST for guidance. Fæ (talk) 07:13, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

lohana and rathore

(As of 1947) EXTRACTS - As Published in “History of Hindus in Sind"

Author: Diwan Bherumal Mahirchand Advani

Published:   1946-1947

Translated and updated wherever possible by:

Narain Sobhraj Kimatrai

LOHANA: - Arorvanshi. Nukh: - Asarpota, Panditpota, Jobanota, Popat, Chhug, Thakral, Chhabria, Sejpal, Somaiya, Karya, Katar (Khatar), Mamotia, and Dhodheja etc

Mr. Anthovan states that according to the folklore, Lohana are Rathod Rajputs (Khatri). Raja Jaichand of Kanoj (Kanya Kabaj) tormented them and they could do nothing. They prayed to their Deity who told them that the following morning they should walk a mile or two in a certain direction till they reached an Iron Fort.

The Deity instructed the Rathods to take refuge in the Fort for sixteen days and leave thereafter. The Rathods would then be able to defeat their enemy. The Iron Fort would vanish on the twenty-first day and they were told to then construct a new Fort at that site. Having taken refuge in the Iron Fort, the Rathods changed their name to Lohana (Loha = Iron and Na = Of) and named all their Forts starting with Lo or La viz. Loh Gadah and Lahore. The Lohanas thereafter migrated to Multan and Sind. In the 13th century, some of them went to Kutch.

In the year 1194, Mohd. Ghori invaded and defeated Kanoj’s Raja Jaichand and murdered thousands of Hindus. The Lohanas and other Hindus out of fright and fear started serving the Muslim Masters. The author, Diwan Bherumal M. Advani, in his volume has opined that this was the start of Muslim domination in Sind.

The Lohana, though Khatri (warriors), thus transformed to Vaishas (traders). ACCORDING TO DEVOTEE OF GODESS HINGLAJMATA:jaichand rathod called ghori,he send treasure to ghori but 84 sardar of jaichand stole treasure to prevent ghori,they went to hinglajgadh,ma hinglaj send them to lohargadh after death of jaichand they came to marvar all are called marvadi loharana,lohana.lohana were also in prithirajs army.[[1]] census of india 1961[[2]] [[3]]rathore caste is founded by lohana.Bhavinkundaliya (talk) 18:54, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

lohana and rathore

(As of 1947) EXTRACTS - As Published in “History of Hindus in Sind"

Author: Diwan Bherumal Mahirchand Advani

Published:   1946-1947

Translated and updated wherever possible by:

Narain Sobhraj Kimatrai

LOHANA: - Arorvanshi. Nukh: - Asarpota, Panditpota, Jobanota, Popat, Chhug, Thakral, Chhabria, Sejpal, Somaiya, Karya, Katar (Khatar), Mamotia, and Dhodheja etc

Mr. Anthovan states that according to the folklore, Lohana are Rathod Rajputs (Khatri). Raja Jaichand of Kanoj (Kanya Kabaj) tormented them and they could do nothing. They prayed to their Deity who told them that the following morning they should walk a mile or two in a certain direction till they reached an Iron Fort.

The Deity instructed the Rathods to take refuge in the Fort for sixteen days and leave thereafter. The Rathods would then be able to defeat their enemy. The Iron Fort would vanish on the twenty-first day and they were told to then construct a new Fort at that site. Having taken refuge in the Iron Fort, the Rathods changed their name to Lohana (Loha = Iron and Na = Of) and named all their Forts starting with Lo or La viz. Loh Gadah and Lahore. The Lohanas thereafter migrated to Multan and Sind. In the 13th century, some of them went to Kutch.

In the year 1194, Mohd. Ghori invaded and defeated Kanoj’s Raja Jaichand and murdered thousands of Hindus. The Lohanas and other Hindus out of fright and fear started serving the Muslim Masters. The author, Diwan Bherumal M. Advani, in his volume has opined that this was the start of Muslim domination in Sind.

The Lohana, though Khatri (warriors), thus transformed to Vaishas (traders). ACCORDING TO DEVOTEE OF GODESS HINGLAJMATA:jaichand rathod called ghori,he send treasure to ghori but 84 sardar of jaichand stole treasure to prevent ghori,they went to hinglajgadh,ma hinglaj send them to lohargadh after death of jaichand they came to marvar all are called marvadi loharana,lohana.lohana were also in prithirajs army. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.47.117.53 (talk) 12:13, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

References

CE

....done. Bddmagic (talk) 03:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Want to add info

isn't this good enough?? http://www.maharajajodhpur.com/hh/hist_clan.htm

why is this reference not good enough? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Divyraj (talk • contribs) 15:32, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I cannot see that you cited that website but in any event the source is actually "'Marwar- Jodhpur Gate-way to the Thar' by Dhananajaya Singh. Mehrangarh Publishers 1996", per the comment at the bottom of the page. I have no idea if the site has got permission to reproduce the text but I guess that is not our problem because we can get it straight from the Singh work. Please note that we already know the official sites connected with the former royal families of Jodhpur tend to promote a particular view of clans and places - this is evident from their belief that James Tod is a reliable source, as discussed in our article about him. So, the question becomes who is/was Singh and what sort of track record do his publishers have? - Sitush (talk) 16:16, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

By the way, your contribution would still have been deleted because it almost certainly violates copyright. As a general rule, do not copy/paste information from websites, books etc - there is a warning on the page when you edit an article that specifically mentions this, thus:

Content that violates any copyrights will be deleted. Encyclopedic content must be verifiable.

By clicking the "Save Page" button, you agree to the Terms of Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. You agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license. ... If you do not want your writing to be edited, used, and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here. All text that you did not write yourself, except brief excerpts, must be available under terms consistent with Wikipedia's Terms of Use before you submit it.

Is there something in that which you do not understand? - Sitush (talk) 16:21, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Notable people

Durga Das Rathore - Rebelled against the Mughal emperor Auranzeb and freed most of Marwar and Mewar.--Divyraj (talk) 16:14, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I've added that name. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:12, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Jaswant Singh of Marwar - Leader of the Rathore clan united many clans and opposed Aurangzeb in the Battle of Dharmatpur.

Maldeo Rathore - Conquered almost all of Rajputana and Fought The Afghan emperor Sher shah suri Till he reached the borders of Delhi. Was also called the Most potent king of Hindustan by the Muslim Historian Ferishta. Template:Unsigend

I've added those two, thanks. However, please don't change the titles of sections on talk pages, and, at the end of your post on talk pages, please sign your post by adding four tildes (~~~~). Thanks. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:31, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Proper Intro

In Northern part of India, the Rathore (or Rathor or Rathur or Rathod or Rathour) is a Suryavanshi Indian Rajput clan.. Rathores are known for their courage and valor in battle since the early ages when swarms of invaders tried to pillage and destroy India. Rathore’s have also successfully repelled many invaders like Sher Shah Suri for a long time until they were finally defeated by Akbar due to internal fights. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Divyraj (talk • contribs) 16:09, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

We certainly wouldn't write it in that way, because that violates WP:NPOV, which requires that we write neutrally. We never praise the subjects of the articles. In addition, we need reliable sources for those claims--not just that previous Rathore have done these, but that this is what they are notable for. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:14, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Recover old info

Cant we put the old info that was first posted??because this article is completely empty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.195.97.205 (talk) 16:14, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

We may only include information which is [[WP:|verifiable]] in reliable sources. It is always better to have no information than to have information that we can't verify. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:59, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Pronounciation of name

I also asked this question at Talk:Rowdy_Rathore#Pronounciation_of_name

When many Indian languages are transcribed into roman letters, the letter H is used to strengthen a consonant (e.g. Buddha vs Budda; Thali vs Tali; Abhishek vs Abishek; etc). That leads to an ambiguity here: is this pronounced,

• as "rat-ORE," with a hard T,
• as "wrath-ORE," with a the TH-fricative?
• I assume it's not pronounced "rat-whore..."

Thanks, 128.112.139.195 (talk) 17:15, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

It is pronounced "Ra-Thor".--Dayumdropper (talk) 20:39, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Article needs to be fleshed out

Come on, surely someone knows a lot more about this topic than is present on the article? I'm interested in the etymology of the name 'Rathore' and the demographics of people known to have this name. In particular I'm trying to find out about Muslims with the name 'Rathore' but have been able to locate very little online. Any pointers? --Dayumdropper (talk) 20:52, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

The problem isn't about "knowing more", it's that people don't have reliable sources to verify what they think they know. It's very important that we only add verifiable info to Wikipedia articles; and the truth is that reliable sources on names are very hard to come by. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:33, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

That's precisely why I didn't add what extra info I do know on this and other topics. I do not have the means to verify them. Tell me, is there such low existance of verifiable sources on Indian names? Not that I promote them, but sources in previous iterations of this article did feature information cited by various online sources. These were mainly from Indians. Yet when a British historian publishing a book through Oxford writes a dubious opinion on say, an esoteric community or tradition in Arabia, it is presented as near fact? That's just sad. --Dayumdropper (talk) 20:04, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Well, something published by Oxford already goes a long way towards being more than a dubious opinion, but, of course, it varies. Online sources are required to meet WP:RS the same as print sources; the vast majority don't, since the vast majority don't have an editorial team with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy, which is the quick nutshell summary of WP:RS. As to them being written by Indians, that makes them no better or worse in any way; being a member of a group does not make one more likely to produce reliable information about that group. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:22, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Rathore are of Sindhi origin

RAthore are of Sindhi origin--Jogi don (talk) 11:16, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Really? Do you have a reliable source for that? - Sitush (talk) 11:23, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Dhadhal branche of rathore clan

Dhadhal(hindi:धाधल) is a branche of rathore.it was founded by dhadhal ji rathore(son of kalu ji rathore of jodhpur state).this clan is found in Kathiyawar rigion.-Jayveerwala (talk) 08:01, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Chandrasen Rathore

Chandrasen Rathore should be added as a Notable personality. "Chandrasen Rathore- One of the few Indian Kings in the 15th century who opposed the Mughal Emperor Akbar." Also the dates of the rulers Maldeo and Jaswant singh are incorrect Maldeo was a 15th century ruler and Jaswant singh was a 16th century ruler. The hindi version of Rathore should also be added so that the indian readers can understand how to pronounce the word (राठौड़). Divyraj (talk) 09:22, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Using James Todd as reference for this article

James Todd has done a lot of work on the different Rajput clans of India. Although biased he can be used for some info at least. like i remember reading in his book that the mentioned that the Rathore cavalry was called the best in the Indian sub continent.