Talk:Scafell Pike

Pronunciation

I seem to remember reading that it is "U" to say, "Scaw-fell" (or "Scawf-ell") and "non-U" to say, "Scar-fell" or "Scaff-ell". Does anybody know about this?--Oxonian2006 21:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Speaking as an ex-pat Lakes resident, I can say with confidence that saying "Scaw-fell" would be a one-way street to ridicule. "Scar-fell" is the correct local pronunciation. That's not what you asked of course, but if you want a guide to pronunciation, it's definitely "Scar-fell". 203.96.78.190 20:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It's hard to be prescriptive and define "correct" pronunciations in this case. Most Lakes residents these days may say "Scarfell", but Wainwright is equally adamant that it should be "Scawfle", which was presumably the usual pronunciation in his day. The spelling "Scawfell" is found in many older sources, as a Google search suggests, indicating that this was considered "correct" not so long ago. As with Shrewsbury, though, spelling pronunciation seems to be taking over. --Blisco 22:33, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

In the local area it's refered to as "Scawfl" (Scorefl) in line with the original spelling of “Scawfell”. Most of the country however refer to it as Scarfell in line with modern spelling of Scafell. When I return home to the area and use Scafell, like the rest of the country, I'm accused of forgetting where I come from. The original name was/is Scawfell, and this is the name that was used by the WWII Naval ship, a Street in London, and an island off the Coast of Queensland Australia. All of these are named after the mountain. I’ve heard the spelling of Scafell was the result of an Ordinance Survey error, but I don’t know if this is accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.86.101 (talk) 09:18, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I wonder if it is to do with the Scandinavian "å" which would make "skå" indeed sound like "scaw"? Simon Grant (talk) 13:14, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Contemporary guidebooks show that Scafell was called "Scawfell" until the mid-nineteenth century. Language changes, however, and from around the 1880s onwards it has more commonly been called Scafell.

The natural pronunciation, and in my experience the most common, is "scar-fell". The trend to say "scaw-fell" (as though the modern name had a silent "w") may originate in a misreading of Wainwright. Wainwright points out that Scafell was traditionally called "Scawfell" and adds that the traditional pronunciation was "Scawfle". But he is probably just talking about the old name here. I don't think he intends to suggest that the modern name should be pronounced in the same way. Jgb37 (talk) 10:17, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Volcano?

I'm not sure whether it is strictly accurate to say (as the new box does) that Scafell Pike is an extinct volcano. My (limited, since I'm no geologist!) understanding is that while the rock itself is of volcanic origin, the present peaks were formed by subsequent glaciation, and don't bear any relation to the original volcanoes that formed the rocks. Does anyone know more about this? Cambyses 14:42, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

My very rudimentary knowledge of the geology of the Lake District suggests that you are quite correct. Trilobite 18:52, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

I am 99% confident you are both right. Funny how we all appear a little hesitant on this! Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 22:38, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

This clearly proves that it's more difficult to disbelieve something when it comes in an impressive-looking box. I have overcome my inhibitions and removed it the claim ;-). Best wishes, Cambyses 00:21, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

Hill or mountain?

Admittedly Scafell Pike is tiny by international standards, but that's no reason to call it a hill instead of a mountain. Most Enlgish people would consider it to be a mountain - the idea that it isn't would imply that there are no mountains in England, which runs contrary to popular understanding of British geography. Furthermore Scafell Pike is one of the Cumbrian mountains - the tallest of them in fact. The idea that the tallest of a range of mountains is not a mountain makes no sense. It is sometimes said that to qualify as a mountain in this country 1000 feet is a minimum, and I notice this was cited as a reason for the reversion of the edit which relagated Scafell Pike to a mere hill. Whether or not this cut-off height is accepted (and I would tend to favour a less rigid definition based on subjective judgement informed by people's understanding of the words 'hill' and 'mountain'), Scafell Pike is commonly regarded as a mountain and not a hill. It might not be very big, but it is a mountain. Trilobite 18:56, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Ok I was a bit fast and loose with the 1,000 feet thing. Thinking it about more I agree that people tend to use it as a "rough guide" to what might be considered a mountain in UK terms, rather than an absolute. We should continue that practice here. However we are in agreement, SP is unquestionably a mountain. However somewhere like the Long Mynd in Shropshire is over 1,000 feet but doesn't have that mountain aura about it. Pcb21| Pete 19:06, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I think the 1000ft rule is what the OS use to decide wether to mark a peak as a mountain on a map. NPWJones 12:43, 24 August 2004

"the Encyclopædia Britannica requires a prominence of 610 m (2,000 ft)." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.209.25.123 (talk • contribs) 00:21, 30 June 2006

The OS doesn't distinguish between hills and mountains on its maps (indeed it doesn't mark them as "hills" or "mountains" at all, it just shows the lie of the land), and nor does any other geographer. The EB doesn't "require" a prominence of 2,000 feet either (see Mountain). The distinction is completely subjective, and the terms are not even mutually exclusive, especially in the UK. 2,000 feet is just a popular rule of thumb that often works in Britain, but rarely in other countries. --Blisco 14:24, 22 October 2006 (UTC) (A bit belated but I thought it was worth saying!)

Geolinks-UK-mountain

Added to the External Links Section

View

I added a list of the major peaks visible, with the degree bearings you can see each one at. Hope it's OK. Comments welcome. --Mark J 16:36, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Well my only problem is its unsourced. I'm rather skeptical about this claim to be able to see the mountains of Ireland from its peak - this would have to be on a very very clear day and with eyesite rather better than my own... --Pretty Green 20:16, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

If you want a source, try here and here. (These do take into account the curvature of the Earth.) As the Mountains of Mourne poke out from behind the Isle of Man, it's quite hard to be sure whether it's really Ireland that you're looking at, or just part of Man. There no doubt, though, that you can see Snowdon on a fine day, and that's a similar distance to Slieve Donard. — ras52 10:09, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe any Irish mountains are visible from Scafell Pike. Maybe someone who knows about the curavature of the earth could calculate whether it's physically possible to see these mountains. Also, some of the general directions are definitely wrong. Mountains in Northern Ireland are certainly not south of Scafell, visible or not. I'll see if someone has any other ideas but should the section be trimmed back to take out the distant mountains? Pikemaster (talk) 21:53, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I would take the viewfinder panoramas with a pinch of salt. One shows "Oubas Hill" on the outskirts of Ulverston, which in reality is no more than a low hump on the A590 road and it certainly isn't possible to see Scafell Pike from there.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by

I walk over Oubas Hill most days of my life and (weather permitting) I can assure this contributor that Scafell Pike is visible very clearly from there. By climbing the 130 ft Hoad Monument the view becomes even more spectacular and in addition the monument can clearly be seen from Scafell, providing a distinctive marker..92.18.222.118 (talk) 21:37, 14 January 2016 (UTC)Tylexman (talk) 21:44, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

86.175.189.18 (talk) 01:20, 5 October 2011 (UTC) 
It seems that Ordnance Survey used the visibility of Slieve Donard from Scafell for the triangulation of GB and Ireland in the early 19 century. Map diagram 8 here:
http://osi.ie/OSI/media/OSI/Content/Publications/The-Irish-Grid-A-Description-of-the-Coordinate-Reference-System-Used-in-Ireland_1.pdf  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.30.125.32 (talk) 12:52, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

Heights

Is there a Wikipedia standard in which to state heights above sea level - in feet or metres? We're not quite metric yet in England. I notice some articles put feet first others give priorty to metres. Pikemaster (talk) 18:36, 9 February 2010 (UTC)