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Yellagonga, Mooro

Is/was Yellagonga a person or a group or both?

The article Yellagonga says he was a person, but the reference to "the Yellagonga" in Perth#Indigenous history implies a group. (See also my recent edit to that sentence, in case I got it wrong.)

History of Perth, Western Australia#Aboriginal history says "Boorloo formed part of Mooro, the tribal lands of Yellagonga, whose group was one of several based around the Swan River, known collectively as the Whadjug", ie Yellagonga was the leader, not the group. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:15, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Likewise was Mooro a group (per the article Mooro, and Yellagonga Regional Park), or a place (per Perth#Indigenous history and History of Perth, Western Australia#Aboriginal history) or both? Mitch Ames (talk) 13:19, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

the source used in Perth#Indigenous history states Yellowgonga himself is recorded as regarding the area north of the Swan River as his own to articles in one sentence referring to Yellagonga as a person, Gnangarra 06:14, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I've updated Perth#Indigenous history accordingly. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:19, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Hold on, this the problem of poor piecemeal changes. You asked a question I read the sourced used highlighted a single point which goes towards answering you question Is/was Yellagonga a person or a group or both? but the source itself doesnt necessarly support the construct and divisions of the areas nor naming of them as describe now in the section. Personally I thinks it s very poor source to use for an overview of the indigenous history of Perth area especially if look into the appeal to decisions taken and then why such a piece of legal documentation and it appeal are used implying that the Noongars relationship with the region has been dis-proven. Gnangarra 12:16, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Meetup reminder

The next Perth meetup is on this Saturday 18 July 2015; details at Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/20 - Evad37 [talk] 12:43, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Train services in WA towns - too much information

I feel that these recent edits [1][2] by Mvpo666 contain too much detailed information about the services (e.g. exactly which days of the week services run) and are contrary to WP:NOTDIRECTORY - even for an article about a railway station. A quick look at Mvpo666's contributions shows many more similar edits.

Can I have other editors' opinions on the matter please. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:39, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

The edits are expressed very badly with little understanding of what constitutes clear explanation, the reading from timetables that might be current and can be changed at short notice, as a consequence, due to the potential fluidity of the operations, is not encyclopdiac in the way that it has been expressed, and the potential to be dated information within a short duration of time. I have a different opinion about TMI (Too much information) on such items, but in this case do agree with Mitch in current form it is, but if edited, can be reduced to services, not the specific days, and I then consider it ok. JarrahTree 09:20, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Considering the area of interest, what are the odds that it's he-of-ten-million-sockpuppets anyway? I don't have a problem with mentioning how many days a week it runs (and think that's probably important), but once it gets down to how often and which days it gets a bit too open to change without us noticing, especially in an article on a small rural town. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:16, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Mvpo666 is listed as a suspected sockpuppet at WP:Sockpuppet investigations/D47817#24 July 2015. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:16, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Checkuser says they are unrelated, the investigation was closed. [3]. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:29, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

puppets with nouse can change ips so that checkuser cannot prove adequately that they are linked JarrahTree 12:37, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly. Someone that ridiculously dedicated to sockpuppeting is easily capable of changing up their IP, and the succession of similar accounts across Australian railways post the original ban suggests to me that he hasn't gone anywhere. The Drover's Wife (talk) 12:49, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

But, not resolved - the too much information aspect is a problem. There is no need of obtuse 'up and down every day detail' added by the sock (I am, sure it is), as there is the issue of transitory and 'temporary' nature of timetables. However, where services are identified in the article already, it should be checked that the specific station has the named service identified already somewhere, if possible without the detail of timetable reading. JarrahTree 11:47, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

I've updated the two articles I mentioned [4][5] to remove the excess details. I'll leave someone else to worry about the others. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:04, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough - thanks for that JarrahTree 12:19, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

I've gone through and done the rest out to Kalgoorlie (per the ref Prospector, AvonLink, MerredinLink timetables) - copy/paste is a wonderful thing. Of course copy/paste errors are a risk. Someone should probably check my edits. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:33, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Transperth line succession box

On the railway theme, could someone fix the succession box that shows Victoria Street as the terminus for Armadale and Midland at Perth railway station and a few other pages? Hack (talk) 08:16, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

 Fixed - some editors weren't mindful of syntax when adding stations to Template:Transperth stations - Evad37 [talk] 09:34, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Midland and East Guildford now link to a station in England. Hack (talk) 11:30, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Not a problem when used individually here: {{transperth stations|station=Midland}}, {{transperth stations|station=East Guildford}} --> Template:Transperth stations, Template:Transperth stations. Will have to investigate further - Evad37 [talk]

The preceding station for Midland and the succeeding station for East Guildford is now Woodbridge railway station in Suffolk. Hack (talk) 14:27, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Should be okay now (after fixing typo [6]): {{transperth stations|station=Woodbridge}} --> Template:Transperth stations - Evad37 [talk]

Old Mandurah Traffic bridge

HI Folks... short notice today 24 Aug the old traffic bridge is being torn down today I cant get there to take photos until this evening 6ish at the earliest suspect it'll be gone then if anyone can get there to day it'd be great lat opportunity to get some photos... Gnangarra 23:57, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I did get down there and take some photos... Didn't look like it was going to be demolished, are you sure you've got the date right? Will upload pics later. - Evad37 [talk] 07:38, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

came thru via friend of friend, so not really sure on the details maybe they are just going to close it to traffic today .... Gnangarra 08:39, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Noongar WikiBomb

Hi Folks

At it again, more activity taking place to coincide with our meetup on the 19th we will have a WikiBomb beforehand;

• time:10:00 - 13:00
• location: SLWA
• romm: Geograph

If you would like to join in the focus will be on Noongar topics in english and the development of the Noongar language Wikipedia which is now in the incubator https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page .... Gnangarra 08:43, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Opinions sought on an OR issue (Wheatbelt WA)

Editors' opinions are sought at Talk:Wheatbelt_(Western_Australia)#How_many_early_20th_century_references_have_.22wheat_belt.22_as_two_separate_words.3F, on a question of WP:OR. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:54, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

With all the AGF in the world, if you have the energy to post this, that is the same as doing some research yourself ion trove to find that both usages prevail, and this is really a no-brainer for this venue.

Check http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=wheat+belt+western+australia

Check http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=wheatbelt+western+australia

There is no hard and fast rule or pattern, it is not OR, it is a time waster.JarrahTree 10:07, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

My reply is at Talk:Wheatbelt_(Western_Australia)#How_many_early_20th_century_references_have_.22wheat_belt.22_as_two_separate_words.3F -- please try to keep the discussion about the issue in one place. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:58, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Save the date: Wikipedia Takes Open House Perth 2015, 7–8 November

Open House Perth is on again this year, 7–8 November 2015. The event allows public access to areas which are usually restricted, and is a good opportunity to take photographs for upload to Commons and inclusion in Wikipedia articles. Once the Open House destinations for 2015 are released in October, we can organise a target list at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Takes Open House Perth 2015. Hopefully with a bit more notice than last year, we might get more participation. Thanks, - Evad37 [talk] 08:42, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

that would or could coincide with meetup number 22 ... Gnangarra 09:02, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Sure, we could combine a meetup with the wiki takes on one (or both) of the days - Evad37 [talk] 00:49, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

well worth planning ahead for and utilising - some good locations/places otherwise out of reach JarrahTree 13:00, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/22 created, for meetups to coincide with Open House Perth - Evad37 [talk] 02:29, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

UPDATE: 2015 destinations details have been updated on the OHP website (and I've added them to the wiki takes page). We should probably start planning for the Wiki Takes now... any thoughts on how we should organise it? - Evad37 [talk] 07:27, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Wikimania 2017 bid

Hi Folks as discussed at the meetup the bid page is now live m:Wikimania 2017 bids/Perth I still havent seen anything to say bidding is open but I'm about to be over run by WMAU and RL commitments for the next couple of weeks and didnt want to miss the process start. Please chime in with additional information and changes as you see fit, I have been speaking with the PCEC since the meetup and the date is the only set in July/August that the whole of venue is available. Gnangarra 04:19, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Per Signpost coverage, it looks like Wikimania 2017 will be Montreal, Canada; 2018 somewhere in South Asia; 2019 somewhere in Europe; 2020 somewhere in US/Canada... if it does end up going like this (a three-yearly rotation between Europe, US/Canada, and rest of the world) then our next opportunities would be 2021, 2024, 2027. - Evad37 [talk] 03:06, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

They will change the process again before 2021 I wouldnt be surpised to see it changed even sooner Gnangarra 03:24, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Toodyaypedia - new articles

HI Folks

The folks of Toodyay have been wuietly working behind the scenes gathering information and help Historian & Author Robyn Taylor research 25 people who's lives have had an impact in the Toodyay area... The people do meet the requirements of GNG over the next few days I will create stubs for each one so that we can stabilize the urls in preparation for the creation of artworks for plaques, if anyone has an interest and wants to assist as Robyn send me the text I can forward it across to you for article creation. The process will be a copy & paste with the addition of a template to note the origins of the text, you will then need to Wikify and tidy up the article, if you can source free licensed images that would be a bonus, the list of people are;

articles being worked on for stage II of WP:Toodyaypedia

the template {{CC-notice|cc=by25au|url=|author=Robyn Taylor}} need to be included in the reference section of each of these articles as per OTRS Ticket:2015100110014114

where a reference is needed you can also use {{cite journal|last1=Taylor|first1=Robyn|title={{subst:pagename}}|journal=Toodyaypedia|date=2015|issue=draft|accessdate=1 October 2015|series=Lotterywest Toodyaypedia - Part II|publisher=[[Shire of Toodyay]]|location=[[Newcastle Gaol Museum|Newcastle Gaol Museum Collection]]}} crediting the text to author.

most drafts include a section notes by author these will need to removed once the article is completed.

Name	reason	Editor	notes	RT Draft
Joseph Strelley Harris	Magistrate 1850-61		Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet/Joseph Strelley Harris has been merged to Joseph Strelley Harris. The former can be deleted now. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:41, 16 December 2015 (UTC)	/Joseph Strelley Harris
Alfred Durlacher	magistrate 1861-65		Done, but see WT:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet#Alfred Durlacher. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:17, 22 November 2015 (UTC) &  Done
John Acton Wroth	convict		Done Mitch Ames (talk) 08:44, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
William Sykes (convict)	convict		Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet/William Sykes (convict) has been merged to William Sykes (convict), so the former can be deleted. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:00, 12 December 2015 (UTC)	/William Sykes (convict)
David Gailey	pensioner guard		Done Gnangarra
Owen Hackett	pensioner guard		Done Gnangarra
Francis Kirk	pensioner guard		Done
Charles Harper (minister)	reverend		Done Mitch Ames (talk) 13:22, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Raffaele Martelli	canon		Done (acknowledging that Gnangarra did much of the editing) Mitch Ames (talk) 12:57, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
Angela Browne (nun)	St Aloysius Convent of Mercy		Done Gnangarra
Arthur Edwardes Growse	doctor		Done Mitch Ames (talk) 06:58, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
William Mayhew (doctor)	doctor		Done Mitch Ames (talk) 10:22, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
James Albert Miles	inspector of schools		Done Mitch Ames (talk) 10:08, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
James Drummond (Australian politician) Jnr	pastoralist		b class article exists
Samuel Pole Phillips	pastoralist		Done
Michael Clarkson (pastoralist)	pastoralist		Done Mitch Ames (talk) 13:27, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
William Amed Demasson	oldfellows (Jager Stores?) & builder		Done Mitch Ames (talk) 10:19, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Charles Ellery	Ellery's Arcade		Done Gnangarra
William George Leeder	first Mayor		stub
Charles Soong Yocklunn	market gardener		Done
Annie Stack	Noongar elder		Done Gnangarra 02:31, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
Doris Durlacher (Miriam Dorothy Durlacher)	nurse		Done. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:13, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
Eric Patten	volunteer fire brigade, school bus crash survivor		Done
Hector Thomas Wood	coorinja wines			/Hector Thomas Wood
Jonathan Somers				/Jonathon Somers

Edit the list at Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet There may be a couple more to be added to this list Gnangarra 03:36, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I'll do a few - create article, wikify and/or copy-edit as necessary. It's not clear how the worksheet is going to work though. Are you going to send the text to someone after they add their name to the Editor column? Or might it be easier for you to just to dump the plain text into the article (or subpage of Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia or Draft space), then editors can pick an existing article that doesn't have an "editor", put their name in the column and work on the article until its done? Mitch Ames (talk) 13:55, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Its on hold for now Gnangarra 10:20, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Is Yock Lunn the same person as Charles Soong Yocklunn, father of John Yocklunn? Hack (talk) 08:05, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

not sure sounds probably but I'll wait until I see the draft for Yock Lunn article Gnangarra 14:10, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

• Update you have noticed that I have started posting the draft articles to a sub pages of the list, I'll continue to expand this as I recieve more... all the draft articles are as I received them the next stage is to Wikify... copy edit and generally tidy them each up to suitable as articles.. If you want to work on a specific article please just add your username to the list in the field provided that way we dont have everyone trippin gover each other... when your ready either just move them to article space your drop me I'll do it. There is also a notes field in the table Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet if you an issue you can note it there as well so others can help resolve it... if its complex just say Issue see talk page Gnangarra 14:10, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

@Gnangarra: could you check up on the "Bicentennial Dictionary of Western Australians, UWA Press, 2009 (c.1983)" used as a reference in some articles please. See Wikipedia talk:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet/Alfred Durlacher#Year of birth for why. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:30, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

@Mitch Ames: work on those question will let you know shortly Gnangarra 02:33, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

a bit off topic

My (german) girlfriend is visiting Perth for the next two weeks. Is there anything worth visiting especially that time? She'd like to have contact with some locals. -- Cherubino (talk) 07:39, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

We have Perth Meetup 22 scheduled for 7-8 November - will she still be in Perth that weekend? Bahnfrend (talk) 08:15, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

AfC submission

See Draft:The Lily (windmill). Cheers, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 19:43, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

wow just as well we didnt have AFC around in the old days, we would have never got anywhere... JarrahTree 00:14, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

This article is great! Needs a bit of work but I'm very impressed. Hughesdarren (talk) 10:03, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Added a few refs and did some tidying. Added a comment that the article meets notability, would appreciate if others could add there thoughts.Hughesdarren (talk) 13:01, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

How do AfC submissions get accepted? The process thread there is completely bananas - can we just move it into mainspace? The Drover's Wife (talk) 13:23, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

I've moved it to mainspace. Hack (talk) 13:38, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks - Hughesdarren and Hack - !!!! JarrahTree 14:34, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

@The Drover's Wife:, you can bypass the process by moving it to mainspace any time if you think it's notable. A lot of AFC reviewer take a pretty hard line, despite the actual AFC acceptance criteria being quite loose. Hack (talk) 14:45, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Hack - will keep that in mind for future cases. The Drover's Wife (talk) 14:50, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Galleria 220

I notice that the page for the Galleria shopping centre is at Galleria 220. Was this part of a shortlived rebranding? Hack (talk) 09:27, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

That would be my guess - nice catch. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Never heard it called that. Ever. Moved it to Galleria Shopping Centre (Perth), and made Galleria Shopping Centre go to the dab page, not a Toronto centre. Nice catch, it was only moved 2 YEARS AGO!!! The-Pope (talk) 15:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Doing some hunting, found this archived web page. Seems pretty amateur and poorly thought out (220 referred to the number of shops). Hack (talk) 16:10, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

SLWA

Just a quick note that the State Library of Western Australia has started a project to improve the information about Western Australian published Newspapers and other activities will begin to occur shortly you can keep an eye on developments at Wikipedia:GLAM/State Library of Western Australia. Gnangarra 06:22, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this. As part of the work, we would like to redevelop the List of newspapers in Western Australia article. Ideally we would like to make it more user friendly and more comprehensive. We're trying to think about the best ways to do this and would appreciate your input and ideas. At a minimum the table will need to include publication years and masthead. User:Gnangarra (who has been very generous with his time) suggested the inclusion of distribution, frequency and style. My concerns are that this would make the list unwieldy since the frequency and style often change over the course of a newspaper's run and they are often distributed to many, many suburbs and areas. Any further ideas about how we could manage this would be appreciated. Since the list will become quite long, we were thinking of having two tables in the article, one with current newspapers and one with defunct newspapers. LOTE newspapers will continue to be included on the List of non-English-language newspapers in Western Australia. Many thanks. RenegadeStormie (talk) 07:29, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Somehow missed this post in 3 weeks, odd.

The best way to reduce crowding in templates/lists/articles - is to separate information into regions - either similar to Regions of Western Australia or approximations of this.

You may or may not be aware of Pilbara_newspapers, as a means of regionalising the lists and details.

Another way is to have specific stubs about individual newspapers (this helps if there are complicated publication histories) and have them in a regional category like Category:Goldfields newspapers. JarrahTree 13:27, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! That's a really good idea. RenegadeStormie (talk) 03:54, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

QR coding - toodyaypedia

Heads up the articles listed at Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet will qr coded and the artwork created over the weekend, I'll then be submitting this ot the projects partners and finalising formats for the printers. Last chance to speak up about any article issues, cross posting to WP:AWNB as well Gnangarra 06:37, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Islands of the Wheatbelt

I suggest that the recently created Category:Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia) is not appropriate and ought to be deleted. In particular, WP:NON-DEFINING applies. Do "reliable sources commonly and consistently define the [island(s)] as having ... [that] location or region"?

WP:OCLOCATION also applies - "avoid subcategorizing subjects by geographical boundary if that boundary does not have any relevant bearing on the subjects' other characteristics." Is wheat grown on the islands? Are there ports on the island used to ship wheat? Is there anything - other than the accident of location - that links the islands to the wheatbelt?

Mitch Ames (talk) 10:58, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Always good to hear your version Mitch, I am sorry but I strongly disagree

• reliable source define the islands as being related to the location or region. yes.
• what grown - ports for wheat - accident of location. missing the point see below

Your mate pdfpdf etc created a whole lot of islands of land based regions some time back, and this was the one that got left out. If you are going to do that sort of logic and questioning above, why are island categories of all the other regions being unquestioned?

• Islands of the Gascoyne (Western Australia)‎ (1 C, 6 P)
• Islands of the Goldfields-Esperance region (Western Australia)‎ (1 C, 4 P)
• Islands of the Great Southern (Western Australia)‎ (14 P)
• Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia)‎ (1 P)
• Islands of the Kimberley (Western Australia)‎ (3 C, 62 P)
• Islands of the Mid West (Western Australia)‎ (1 C, 9 P)
• Islands of the Perth region (Western Australia)‎ (1 C, 6 P)
• Islands of the Pilbara (Western Australia)‎ (4 C, 19 P)
• Islands of the South West (Western Australia)‎ (4 P)

The land regions of the state have coastlines - the coastline has islands - the islands can also be determined by coastal regions as well, but suprise, western australia is a big state, and very specifically land based region geology and geomorphology actually affects the nature of the islands that lie on the coast... JarrahTree 14:46, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

"reliable source define the islands as being related to the location or region. yes."
Some specific examples might help your case. The three references listed in Edwards Island (Western Australia) – the single article currently in Category:Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia) – do not appear to mention the wheatbelt at all in their text.

"what grown - ports for wheat - accident of location. missing the point"
These were obviously rhetorical questions. I was making the point that there is nothing in the article that suggests that there is any connection between the wheatbelt region and the island, other than its location. WP:OCLOCATION seems fairly clear on this: "avoid subcategorizing subjects by geographical boundary if that boundary does not have any relevant bearing on the subjects' other characteristics".

"why are island categories of all the other regions being unquestioned?"
Because I wasn't aware of those categories. But now that you mention it, I suspect that the same arguments may apply to some or all of the other categories. (Although I note that there is an article Islands of the Kimberley (Western Australia), which cites references that apparently refer to them as "Kimberley Islands", so there may be some merit in that category - but that's the only one with its own article.)

"very specifically land based region geology and geomorphology actually affects the nature of the islands that lie on the coast..."
Land based geology and geomorphology may well affect the nature of the islands, but the regions in question are socio-economic not geological or geomorphic. Again, I quote OCLOCATION: "boundary does not have any relevant bearing on the subjects' other characteristics".

There may be merit in categorising islands by coastal region (Batavia Coast, Sunset Coast, Turquoise Coast etc), but land regions - no.

As always, other editors are invited to comment. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:05, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

OMG, not another one of these. I strongly disagree with your arguments, and remain somewhat perturbed that the categories nowreceive your attention despite having existed for quite a while, they serve a good purpose by breaking down the rather large range of features into a regional framework, and regardless of the nit picking, I would rather at least another 3 or 4 editors make comment, rather than this be a drawn out on wiki conversation between 2 eds. JarrahTree 14:27, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

"somewhat perturbed that the categories nowreceive your attention despite having existed for quite a while"
The one category that I mentioned in the first instance – Category:Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia) – was created two days ago. The others - perhaps I wasn't aware of them, perhaps I missed them when they were created, or didn't pay much attention at the time. I don't believe that longevity makes any difference to whether or not they are consistent with WP:CAT.

"regardless of the nit picking"
Feel free to point out exactly what's wrong with my specific references to the relevant MOS guidelines. If you think I've misinterpreted those words that I quoted from the guidelines, feel free to explain how you interpret them. If you think that those guidelines should not apply, please explain why. Feel free to actually refute my individual points with something more specific that "I disagree".

Mitch Ames (talk) 11:53, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

I asked for this not to be a conversation between you and myself over issues that lengthen this page to a runner carpet of diffs and issues,

but for other editors to look and offer their position on the issue. One has arrived, if we have at least another two, then if they have issues, as well as ours , then will be the time to further discuss. If they agree with the position of keep, or not, so be it.

I do not wish to argue re MOS guidelines or essays, the categories as they stand are useful and I do not see where deleting them benefits anyone in the long run JarrahTree 12:58, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Applying the regions to the coastline is the logical choice for mind. At least most West Australians have a reasonably good understanding of the regions and they have good supporting information on the wiki pages created for them. It seems unlikely that a better alternative exists. Hughesdarren (talk) 23:20, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Complicated template at Perth railway station

Prompted by an edit by another new rail editor, I notice that the station layout at the Perth railway station article is a little out of date. It is generated by {{Perth Rail Yard}}. Just wondering if someone could take a look at this. Hack (talk) 09:42, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Categories: Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia), Turquoise Coast (Western Australia)

Opinions are sought at Category talk:Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia)#Cat hierarchy as to how to fix the WP:SUBCAT contravention. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:37, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Proposed edits to Perth Freight Link

Please see and join the discussion at Talk:Perth Freight Link § Proposed edits. Thanks, - Evad37 [talk] 11:33, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

WikiData Down under tour 2016

A little bit of confusion settled in in this morning, it has been a complicated process, planning and organising the schedule for Perth, made even more so by Wikimedia Indonesia inviting him yesterday to detour to Jakarta, after leaving Perth, throwing the final day out of whack so I'm still waiting their confirmation before I can finalise the last event in Perth.

On the 19th of February 2016 there will be a mini conference in the theatre at Alexander Library Building of SLWA.

It will be open to the public, all are welcome to attend, also please invite anyone who you think might find it interesting to know more about what we have been doing in Wikidata and Wikipedia.

Then on the Saturday 20th February 2016, we have a hands on workshop at the SLWA in the Geographe room starting at 14:00. The room will be available from 13:00 but this will give you a chance to have a chat and get setup beforehand.

After the workshop which can run until we get kicked out (when the library closes); if people want to head out for dinner, we can organise that on the day.

Finally there will be chance to join us before Andy is carted away on the silver bird, this is awaiting the result of WMID decision it either be 24th or 25th. Gnangarra 08:30, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/Wikidata Tour 2016
• Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/24 – Wikidata editing workshop, 20 February 2016
  • Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/24.5 - final night dinner (TBC)

Any questions? please ask here, or contact User:Gnangarra

JarrahTree 12:31, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

---

Missing topics

If anyone's looking for articles to create, these are the most wanted redlinks from articles within Category:Western Australia and its subcats. See WP:AWNB § Missing topics - a useful tool! for further info/discussion. - Evad37 [talk] 08:44, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Have created a permanent project page out of this archivable talk page at: [7] JarrahTree 08:58, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

• Just a note: some of these apparently wanted articles, such as Hopman Cup (tennis) are on this list due to a "feature/bug" in the infobox template coding. Apparently if a template uses the "#ifexist:" function to test if a page exists, that is included in the "what links here" test, and hence shows up in these lists, even though the template code does not result in an actual redlink being printed. In this Hopman Cup case, the generic tennis infobox tests for the existence of the Hopman Cup (tennis) disambiguated page but as it doesn't exist, prints links to Hopman Cup instead. Not sure if we need to push the tennis project to change their infobox to avoid this, push the mediawiki people to not detect phantom #ifexist: links in the "what links here" function, find a way to get the missing topics tool to ignore them, or just ignore the issue as a minor distraction. The-Pope (talk) 04:29, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Seems more like a mediawiki/developer bug rather than a template design issue... but they can be removed from the wanted lists by creating redirects from the disambiguated titles to the actual titles. - Evad37 [talk] 05:11, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
    • That's what I did for the Commonwealth Games medal list links, but for the tennis one, I wonder if that would cause more grief? Would it then make the template think that the qualified format of the link exists, and use the redirect for the link, not the direct link? To me, it seems like a bit of a shortcut/hack in the coding, but my template coding skills are not enough to be sure of how it all works. The-Pope (talk) 05:36, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
      • Creating such redirects isn't the most elegant solution, but I don't think there's anything really wrong with having them. I can't see how it would cause a problem – all that should happen is that the link produced by the template would be of the form [[Foo (Bar)|Foo]] instead of [[Foo]]. E.g. Bendigo, Victoria is an existing disambiguated redirect to Bendigo, and [[{{#ifexist:Bendigo, Victoria|Bendigo, Victoria|Bendigo}}|Bendigo]] produces Bendigo - Evad37 [talk] 10:20, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Created Sat, 30 Jan 2016 08:37:34 +0000 by the MissingTopics tool (run again with these settings)

Wanted	Title
43	Robert Chinnock
42	Midland Province (Western Australia)
41	Minister for Works (Western Australia)
35	North-East Province (Western Australia)
35	1962 Commonwealth Games medal table
34	South-East Province (Western Australia)
33	Tom Evans (politician)
30	Jeff Carr (Australian politician)
29	Keith Wilson (Western Australian politician)
29	Barry Blaikie
27	Mike Barnett (politician)
27	Bill Hegney
27	Ken McIver
26	David Evans (Western Australian politician)
26	John Brady (Australian politician)
26	Joseph Holmes (politician)
26	Ron Bertram
25	Alexander Taylor (politician)
25	List of Geraldton suburbs
25	Yvonne Henderson
25	Plantae Preissianae
25	Merv Toms
25	Gordon Hill (politician)
25	Emil Nulsen
25	Lionel Kelly
24	Norbert Keenan
24	James Hegney
24	Iven Manning
23	Tom Bateman
23	Alan Ridge
23	Bill Sewell (politician)
23	Charles Baxter (politician)
23	Edgar Lewis
22	Minister for Mines (Western Australia)
22	Hopman Cup (tennis)
22	Arthur Tonkin (politician)
22	Ian Laurance
22	Arthur Bickerton
21	Dick Old
21	List of 1962 British Empire and Commonwealth Games medal winners
21	Peter Jones (Australian politician)
21	1962 British Empire and Commonwealth Games medal table
21	George Cornell (politician)
21	Pam Beggs
21	Barry Hodge
20	Gavan Troy
20	Geraldton (suburb)
20	James Mann (Australian politician)
20	Victor Doney
20	Harry Gayfer
20	Arthur Moir
20	Harry Fletcher (politician)
19	Graham MacKinnon
19	George Taylor (Australian politician)
19	David Smith (Australian politician)
19	Charles Perkins (politician)
19	Tom Dadour
19	Bert Crane
19	William James George
18	Daniel Norton (Australian politician)
18	William Kitson
18	William Manning (Australian politician)
18	James Connolly (Australian politician)
18	Peter Coyne (politician)
18	John Ewing (Australian politician)
18	Les Nimmo
18	Joseph Sleeman
18	James Cornell
18	John Nanson
18	Gilbert Fraser
17	Aubrey Coverley
17	Reg Tubby
17	Robert Ross McDonald
16	Norm Baxter
16	Harry May
16	Ray Owen (politician)
16	Lindsay Thorn
16	Edmund Gray (politician)
16	Harold Seddon
16	John Hearman
15	Donald May (politician)
15	Francis Connor (politician)
15	Mick Nanovich
15	George Spriggs (politician)
15	John Harman (Australian politician)
15	Brendan Lepschi
15	Henry Runciman
15	David Wordsworth
15	John Nicholson (Western Australian politician)
14	John Sibson
14	William Marshall (Australian politician)
14	Minister for Labour (Western Australia)
14	Rex Williams (politician)
14	Charles Piesse
14	John Rhatigan
14	Richard Lewis (Australian politician)
14	Jack Hall (politician)
14	Selby Munsie
14	Les Logan
14	Maurice Williams (politician)
14	Richard Shalders
14	James Gordon Hislop
14	James Brown (Western Australian politician)
13	Ken Dunn
13	Richard Sampson (politician)
13	William Willesee
13	George Lambert (Australian politician)
13	Harry Shearn
13	James Craig (politician)
13	Richard Burt (Australian politician)
13	William Hall (Australian politician)
13	Edward McLarty
13	William Mann (Australian politician)
13	Harry Strickland
13	Guy Henn
13	Charles Moran (politician)
12	Leslie Diver
12	Henry Carson
12	Harry Griffiths (politician)
12	Dryandra ser. Gymnocephalae
12	James Murray (Australian politician)
12	James Macfarlane (Western Australian politician)
12	Robert Robinson (politician)
12	Brian Sodeman
12	Thomas Moore (Australian politician)
12	John Read (Australian politician)
12	Tom Herzfeld
12	Barrington Wood
12	Dryandra ser. Dryandra
12	Herbert Styants
12	Hugh Guthrie (Australian politician)
12	Geoff Grewar
12	Minister for the North-West
12	Ephraim Clarke
12	Edward Angelo
12	Les Craig
11	John Harman (politician)
11	Ian Alexander (politician)
11	Jabez Dodd
11	Hugh Andrew
11	Francis Willmott
11	Dryandra ser. Concinnae
11	Dryandra ser. Acrodontae
11	Dryandra ser. Decurrentes
11	Dryandra ser. Marginatae
11	Dryandra ser. Pectinatae
11	Dryandra ser. Obvallatae
11	Des Dans
11	Charles Sommers - User:Gnangarra/sandbox/Charles Sommers
11	Anthony Loton
11	Adenanthos acanthophyllus
11	Arnold Piesse
11	Arthur Abbott (politician)
11	Charles Hudson (Australian politician)
11	Vic Ferry
11	Dryandra ser. Runcinatae
11	Dryandra ser. Foliosae
11	Frederick Monger
11	Harold Crommelin
11	Graham Burkett
11	Dryandra ser. Tenuifoliae
11	Dryandra ser. Triangulares
10	Joseph Rowberry
10	Beacon Island (Houtman Abrolhos)
10	Henry Curran
10	John Foulkes
10	George Roberts (Australian politician)
10	Garnet Barrington Wood
10	Wyndham Cook
10	Tom Hart (Australian politician)
10	Charles Simpson (politician)
10	Henry Kennedy Maley
10	Leonard Bolton
10	James Dimmitt
10	Richard Goldsmith Burges
10	Edwin Rose
10	Minister for the Environment (Western Australia)
10	Jack Skidmore
10	Fred McKenzie (politician)
10	Hugh Roche

Elizabeth Quay railway station & Busport

As you may have noticed both the Esplanade railway station and the Esplanade busport have had a name change as of 31st January 2016 both have become Elizabeth Quay foo's. Any way at around midnight I had a burst of energy and made all the moves changed all the links but the old what links here needs some time to update templates and refresh its lists I think I have most of them already obviously I left the redirects in place because no doubt we will still use Esplanade more frequently than EQ for sometime to come. I'll check back tomorrow to see if there are any more more to be done. Gnangarra 16:35, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

• I think I have got them all, but I notice other editors have been changing the Esplanade to Elizabeth Quay ignoring the fact it was the Esplanade at the time and now if someone else attempts to verify without knowing the name change has occurred they will tag as not in source. Please keep the name in context dependent on the information being told. Gnangarra 04:41, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Esplanade Busport got moved to Elizabeth Quay Busport... but shouldn't it be Elizabeth Quay Bus Station, per the sources for the new name (and to match the lead and infobox)? - Evad37 [talk] 04:56, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

You are correct - I hadn't noticed that they'd changed that too (presumably to eliminate confusion with the new Perth Busport). The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:02, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

so Perth City Busport will need to a redirect to els where in future. they are going to create a great deal of confusion with these name changes Gnangarra 12:36, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

• I had read that they were changing the "Esplande" to Elizabeth Quay which was also written on the notices from the PTA that have been adorning all the bus stops out this way for a month because they are changing all the time tables today as well. Wasnt aware they were also changing the Busport to bus station Gnangarra 05:27, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
  • They have Bus Station on the Transperth website [8] - Evad37 [talk] 05:45, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
    • thats ok not arguing the point I just changed to what I had read at the time. Gnangarra 12:36, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
      • There's also a bunch of articles referencing WSBS that need updating now and again when the Perth Busport opens. Hack (talk) 02:39, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

invoice PTA

• maybe we should send an invoice to the PTA for time taken in making the changes Gnangarra 05:29, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
  • At least its not as much work as LGA merges/boundary changes would have been - Evad37 [talk] 05:45, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
  • but they are throwing away heaps of money to do this Gnangarra 07:19, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
  • As Evad37 said, that's not even a fraction of the money spent on the failed Local Government Reform. Dan arndt (talk) 08:03, 31 January 2016 (UTC)