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User:Jonadabsmith engaging in harassment?

Jonadabsmith (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I am rather concerned about this comment by Jonadabsmith. I quote: "Dr Harry Potts, what time would you like us to call round your office on campus for a meeting to discuss your personal attacks on students you are meant to encourage to embrace new political ideas and not silence?". Cordless Larry (talk) 20:58, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

That Dr. is the real name of User:Bondegezou, a fact which if not immediately shown on his User page is easily accessed via external link. I'm not sure how that fits into any "outing" calculation. More broadly, Jonadabsmith is unhappy about a couple of AfDs, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Luke Nash-Jones and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/London Students for Britain, and his comments at the AfDs and on the article Talk pages would appear to exceed the usual boundaries of WP:NPA and WP:AGF among others. JohnInDC (talk) 21:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't think it counts as outing, given that Bondegezou has linked to his work profile from his user page. I was more concerned about Jonadabsmith's suggestion that he wants to pay him a visit at work. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:23, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I think that's right. But addressing a person by his / her real (and full!) name rather than his User name adds, IMHO, a bit more menace to the comment. I don't know what kind of an actual threat it amounts to but it certainly seems designed to intimidate. JohnInDC (talk) 21:26, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I think the assessment here is correct, but agree it is very problematic behavior. Does seem menacing. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 21:45, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I concur; it's hardly friendly, even if it's not a threat, per se. GAB^Hello! 21:50, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

If Bondegezou places his name and place of work on his profile, he is hardly seeking to hide such, and it is hardly unreasonable for a student of a university to ask to visit a known professor at the same establishment to resolve some difference. I stress, that there was merely a request to visit, not an actual visit. Your implication that such would involve harassment is ridiculous. A friendly chat over a cup of tea is likely to be far more productive than people playing keyboard warriors while shouting acronyms as if they are the Supreme Court. User: Jonadabsmith —Preceding undated comment added 21:29, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Jonadabsmith, regardless of the outcome of this discussion, no amount of chatting with Bondegezou is likely to change the outcome of the AfDs. Deletion is not in the gift of Bondegezou and the decision will be taken by consensus. What you need to do is establish the notability of the subjects, not attack other editors for supposedly being biased. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:33, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Cordless Larry what would you like me to do to improve the notability of the subjects? More newspaper references? Jonadabsmith

Please see the pages WP:Golden rule and WP:RELIABLE, Jonadabsmith. Those will help you understand what is required. In-depth national newspaper coverage of the subjects would help, yes. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:39, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Jonadabsmith would also do well to read the second and fifth bullet points of Wikipedia:No personal attacks#What is considered to be a personal attack? -- as others have hinted above, he or she seems to be breaching this policy. MPS1992 (talk) 22:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• The comment by Jonadabsmith (talk · contribs) (diff) is an outrageous attack on an editor. An immediate and complete repudiation may be sufficient, but the attack combined with the WP:SPA nature of the account suggest that a WP:NOTHERE block is warranted. Johnuniq (talk) 22:25, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

There is currently an SPI open on this. GAB^Hello! 00:16, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Comment Their constant bringing-up of Bodegezou's political leanings, which they make clear, in the AFD as if it invalidates the fact that most of the sources are from non reliable sources is a clear sign of trying to muddy the AFD. This is unacceptable. Blackmane (talk) 00:31, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

This isn't even remotely ambiguous. The comment in question includes clear personal attacks, an inability to argue the content issue in question without going after the character of another editor, and a threat to extend harassment over this editing issue into the off-project work environment of a contributor. It's quite probable that the SPI will turn something up on this SPA, but regardless, the evidence for WP:NOTHERE seems pretty absolute. Someone should simply take this directly to an admin. Or we can always make a proposal right here. I know what my !vote will be. Snow ^{let's rap} 05:49, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

@Snow Rise: Yes, all the socks are confirmed to one another and possible to the master. GAB^Hello! 23:01, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't think that outcome comes as a shock to anyone. I am a little surprised that Bbb23 decided only to block the sock accounts and left it to another admin to decide whether to also block the likely master--but hopefully another admin will be along shortly to attend to that. It seems a pretty open and shut case of disruption and WP:NOTHERE, so the only thing I feel needs to be reiterated at this point is that Jonadabsmith can/should be blocked for the socking or for the blatant harassment/threats--and hopefully the block length will reflect the aggregate circumstances of the disruption. Personally, I'd fully support an indef in this instance, given this is clearly an SPA here to further a specific agenda--even if it means disrupting process through puppetry (generally grounds for an indef in its own right), to say nothing of threatening the off-wiki professional interests/personal well-being of a contributor. Snow ^{let's rap} 23:24, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I agree. At the very least, they should be blocked for the duration of the AFD, as suggested. GAB^Hello! 23:34, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

User:Bondegezou, I'll pop over from the IHR if you need someone to watch your back mate. Bloomin' undergrads 11:36, 6 March 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.68.139.189 (talk) 11:36, 6 March 2016 (UTC)‎

Thanks to everyone for bringing this to ANI. It did feel quite WP:HArass-y. I also note the following behaviour:

• edit-warring at both London Students for Britain ([1], [2], [3], [4] and [5] fail WP:3RR, for example) and Luke Nash-Jones;
• lying about conflict of interests in both articles: see User talk:Jonadabsmith#Conflict of interest; and
• confirmed sock/meatpuppetry: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jonadabsmith, with puppets blocked, but awaiting action on the master account.

Jonadabsmith hasn't edited since Friday night, although there's been weird stuff on both articles since: [6], [7]. The two AfDs are still open, but given that only Jonadabsmith + puppets have voted to keep and numerous editors have voted for delete, I think they are both WP:SNOWable at this point!

It would be nice to close this issue with some administrator action one way or the other. The final SPI decision is still hanging and I hope the additional issues described above are taken into account as well. Bondegezou (talk) 10:39, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Proposal: Topic Ban

A checkuser has found that Jonadabsmith is at least possibly the master behind a number of related socks reinforcing his perspectives on the articles detailed above. Looking at the greater context and considering the evidence provided by numerous editors both at the SPI and here, I'm going to say that my own assessment is that it is in fact highly probable that these accounts are either Jonadabsmith's socks or, at the very least, meat puppets. I'd encourage anyone voting on the proposal to, of course, review the SPI and the above discussion before coming to their own conclusions as to the relationship between the accounts, but what is not in question is that this user has steadfastly refused to engage in WP:AGF, making liberal use of ad hominem attacks on other users.

Most concerning of all, this user has recently threatened to stop by the workplace of another contributor. Jonadabsmith would have us believe that "for all we know" he was just proposing to have a "cup of tea" and discuss the issues but A) looking at the wording of the comment and the disruptive/argumentative context in which it was made, I think we can all see the intent and motivation here was a clear attempt to chill the efforts of another editor through a threat to harass him at work and, B) even if we were to believe that the suggestion of coming into said user's workspace was for the purpose of civil discussion about how his edits on Wikipedia reflect on his concern for his students and his personal politics, it would still be an entirely inappropriate thing to do, or threaten to do.

This behaviour is absolutely unacceptable. Personally I still feel it would be appropriate for any admin looking into this matter to impose an indefinite block for the fairly obvious sock-/meat-puppetry. Failing that, I'm proposing a community resolution to remove this editor from the topic areas which they are proven they cannot be involved in without disruption of the worst sort (threats to the off-project security and well being of our contributors who chose to reveal their actual names on-project, amongst other issues). Specifically my recommendation is that this user be topic banned from contributing to all areas relating to British student organizations, the Brexit or Britain's relationship to the European Union in general, all broadly construed. Snow ^{let's rap} 04:09, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support as nom. Snow ^{let's rap} 04:09, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support topic ban from all areas relating to British student organizations, the Brexit or Britain's relationship to the European Union in general, all broadly construed. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 06:17, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support. This is probably the least that should be done in this case, and a site ban is actually the preferred choice of experienced editors at this point. BTW here is the SPI: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jonadabsmith. -- Softlavender (talk) 08:07, 9 March 2016 (UTC); edited 03:04, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
• Siteban (first choice) or topic ban as proposed. A clear case of someone who is trying to use Wikipedia to further an agenda. Guy (Help!) 11:34, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
• Comment I don't know that I should have a !vote as the injured party, so to speak, but if this account is not simply indef blocked, might I suggest a site ban until end of June 2016, i.e. a week after the referendum? Bondegezou (talk) 14:50, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Bondegezou, you are most definitely allowed to !vote. A site ban is considered permanent, so there are no short-term "site bans"; perhaps you meant a temporary block (which would also cover socking or block evasion). Softlavender (talk) 03:04, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

A clarification. Ostensibly, there are bans that are stated to last for a year, numerous Arbcom bans have been handed out in the past where editors were site banned for a a year. Obviously we all know that site bans are rarely fixed term and those site banned are even more rarely allowed to return. Blackmane (talk) 14:04, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

• Site ban as 1st choice and Tban as 2nd per Guy. Being zealous about what you believe in is one thing, but hinting at showing up at someone's work place is beyond chilling and into the realm of real world harassment. Blackmane (talk) 01:40, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support siteban or indef block on grounds that we would indef for legal threats, and IRL ones are even more serious. 09:02, 11 March 2016 (UTC)09:02, 11 March 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.230.65.134 (talk)
• Site ban as first choice. I agree with Guy here.--Adam in MO Talk 12:27, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
• Site ban This goes beyond just not editing on a specific topic. In my opinion a line was crossed with the comment related to "having a cup of coffee" with Bondegezou. That to me smelled of an attempt to harass the user in person. This is not the type of editor that I personally would want to have on Wikipedia. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:24, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
• Site ban first choice, with a very broadly construed topic ban as a poor alternative which would have to include a one-way interaction ban to stop them finding other ways to needle an editor they oppose. Johnuniq (talk) 23:52, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
• Site ban as first choice with topic ban as second choice. Using Wikipedia to further an agenda or sock puppetry is a violation of fundamental policies. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:27, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
• Site ban as first choice, topic ban second choice. Precisely the sort of behavior which destroys a collegial, cooperative and good-faith editing environment. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 07:30, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
• I have noted another couple of sock or meat puppets at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jonadabsmith. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:33, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support a site ban or topic ban (second choice), this individual's behavior has been intimidating and disruptive. GAB^Hello! 16:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
• Site ban for being menacing and duplicitous Both intimidation and sock puppetry are grounds for a site ban, this seems like a no brainer. HighInBC 03:24, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
• Site-Ban - A topic ban is not an adequate response either to harassment or to sock-puppetry. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:27, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Further issues

All socks (including the two new ones) and the master account have been indef banned. The two original articles have been deleted, although a clone article was created by one of the socks and is up for speedy deletion. There's some odd IP editing going on on related topics; don't know how that fits in. If people could keep an eye out for any new socks or inappropriate IP editing, that would be helpful. Thanks. Bondegezou (talk) 18:53, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, there seems to be some hostility between rival anti-EU groups, which has spilled over on to Wikipedia. Jonadabsmith made this edit to Students for Britain and now we have IP edits such as this. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:51, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Universities for Britain speedily deleted. Bondegezou (talk) 10:03, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

European Graduate School

• European Graduate School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

This is a questionable institution which has been the subject of a very long term campaign by a succession of WP:SPAs over a number of years to whitewash criticism of its accreditation status. The latest is Claidioalv (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). If you review the Talk page you will see that the same demand is repeated over and over and over again. This is a case of WP:RGW, WP:IDHT and WP:TE. I think it is time this user was banned from that article, it is very clear that they are not here to contribute to a neutral body of knowledge, only to whitewash a questionable institution.

I originally blocked the account as a sock and unblock was declined by two admins but a third unblocked because it was likely meatpuppetry not sockpuppetry (fair, but of questionable relevance as we don't really treat the two differently) and the user was "not being disruptive". I would say the user now is being disruptive and actually I'd argue that they always were, since this is part of a long term POV-pushing campaign, but whatever. No criticism of the unblocking admin, who assumed good faith, but WP:AGF is not a suicide pact. Guy (Help!) 09:37, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

I think you meant Claudioalv (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 11:56, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

As a sidenote: the page is fully protected, which kind of nullifies part of the unblocking administrators reasoning that Claudioalv didn't try to edit the article. I had a short look at the French page about the institution, which comes along a little shorter and completely avoids any mention of accreditation status...but I admit the singlemindedness with which the accreditation topic is tackled again and again leaves me suspecting a strong COI and meatpuppetry. Lectonar (talk) 12:09, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I cannot type for toffee (burn scars on my left hand). Guy (Help!) 16:28, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

• Comment: The article was indefinitely full-protected 10 days ago. There's an RfC which was opened by Vanjagenije a week ago [8], which should resolve at least one issue the user in question (Claudioalv) has been trying to address. By the way no SPI was filed or CU requested, but the user was indef blocked by JzG after only two edits (both to the talk page). While JzG may have some observational behavioral evidence to back that up, he seems to be acting as judge, jury, and executioner on this article and the users trying to edit it. There's also an ArbCom Request on the subject going on at this time. While I think it's commendable that JzG is looking over this article, I think his entire modus operandi is a little excessive and I think that the article and situation needs more eyes and more admin eyes, not a single-handed dictatorship. The article (or user) should have been brought to ANI or to administrative attention prior to this single-handed harshness, in my opinion. As in some other cases, I think JzG needs to dial back his intensity and POV, and allow for the fact that even COI users have a right to attempt to correct items on Wikipedia, and if there is a concern it should probably be brought to ANI or another noticeboard or investigation board before it blows up on so many fronts like this. Softlavender (talk) 05:16, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Edited to add: And *sigh* now there's a Request for mediation filed: Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/European Graduate School article content - Accreditation issue. In my mind we have a clueless newbie editor and an overzealous admin; not a great mix, especially when in my mind neither of them is really listening to what the other is saying or trying to say. -- Softlavender (talk) 08:13, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

• I am presently in the midst of reading Ian Kershaw's two-volume biography of Hitler. Let me assure you, JzG is not imposing a "dictatorship." We have enough problems on Wikipedia without hyperbole like this. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 05:26, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, however we phrase it, I have to agree with Softlavender that it is problematic to block an editor after two edits without a CU, unless there is transparent discussion about the behavioural evidence. I trust Guy's perspective here, certainly, but when it comes to blocks, I think policy and appropriate caution require more. I won't say that I can't envisage instances when reflexive blocking might make sense, but I'm sure Guy understands why this can be viewed as problematic, especially when it is not a one-off action, but part of a broader effort that may have some suggestion of WP:INVOLVED. Snow ^{let's rap} 02:02, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

• I am heartily sick of this user. Look at the recent edit history, including trying to take this to ArbCom. So we can now add WP:FORUMSHOP to WP:TE, WP:IDHT, WP:RGW, WP:SYN and all the others. Banhammer, please. This is not about an "over zealous admin", check the article's history, there are a mountain of single purpose accounts - including socks and puppeteers. This is a long-term programme of POV-pushing plainly orchestrated by the school, a more aggressive version of what happens at Bircham International University (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Guy (Help!) 12:01, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

• Kudos to Guy for reality-based adminning. BMK (talk) 03:43, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
• BMK is correct. There are lots of highly dubious organizations which earn money by selling fake academic qualifications, and their #1 priority is to fix their Wikipedia article. Anyone wanting to support the SPAs should think hard about text they add because this diff shows a claim that the school is accredited in Malta—the ref used to support that has a title starting "School that spawns activists...". Such WP:UNDUE material should not be used to obfuscate the core issue, namely that the organization is not accredited in the U.S., and Texas says it issues "fraudulent or substandard degrees". AGF is great, but reality also needs to be considered. Johnuniq (talk) 04:46, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

• I am glad that someone is reading my contribution and the issue I raised. That is the reason why I joined Wikipedia. I find some information inaccurate, misleading and partially false (i.e. Michigan) about the EGS article and I thought having joined the civil discussion in Wikipedia should have worked. I did not worked so far, but at least some administrators are discussing about the problem. My hope is that people would address the issue in the EGS article, even if I am quite sick of JzG, as he acted like the Supreme Court, the last say of the article (e.g. when a different editor amended the article with the Malta accreditation he reverted the article after half an hour because there is no consensus). What I want to repeat here is that the article was built by JzG in a malicious way because he just did not like EGS. Proof of that statement are 2: i) even if the School was accredited as Higher Education Institute since April 2015 he promply took off this info from EGS article. Now the school is accredited as a University in Malta [Malta is a European and Sovereign country and the link I posted comes from the official governmental body and not "dubious organization" as I read above], three different administrators have written that this info should be included in the RfC (I do not think three of them are crazy and JzG is the only one in his right mind); ii) the accreditation section about US in inaccurate because: a) the Michigan information is false (it is not official because derives from a U.K. link and not the US) and outdated (I have been posted which is the current Michigan Civil Service Commission link and recently I have opened a RfC); b) the Maine information is oudated because their current official statement is "The Maine Department of Education does not mantain the list of unaccredited postsecondary institution"; 3) the Texas info is outdated because the Malta accreditation was not on their record and they are currently reviewing the EGS inclusion "Status under review per European Graduate School's request". Sorry for the lenght, I like to be detailed and I have been posting this information in the talk page, in the RfC, Mediation and Arbitration request (both denied). Everyone can check, I do not want be disruptive, but I want someone who verifies that, because the current EGS article is questionning the EGS reputation and this is not fair, especially if it relies on inaccurate and outdated sources. thanks Claudioalv (talk) 15:59, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

User:ApprenticeFan (me) about edits in The Amazing Race

I was so embarrassed on my contributing edits in The Amazing Race (season number) articles. Me and Masem (talk · contribs) are a frequent contributors for the show franchise that we did make shortening summary articles. I made my first edit back in April 2005 in The Amazing Race 7 and became very common ever since. The big problem is I did not give any comments without any explanations of how I cleaned up sentences to meet with the standards of WP:PLOT policy.

Articles have been reported:

• The Amazing Race 18 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• The Amazing Race 27 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

My edits on those two articles didn't do a disruptive editing that is having a common on a good Wiki editor. At first, ESAD-Hooker (talk · contribs) became a new "Ryulong" of the Wikipedia-edit race for race/leg summary. Well, I didn't vandalize all of The Amazing Race pages since my account's creation in 2005 and this did not have previous blocks from editing. I may going to be a proper Wiki editor that meets the right standards to be understood. ApprenticeFan ^work 04:10, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

• Soooooo..... this isn't anything that needs admin intervention and should therefore be closed as such ? ....., Your edits look fine so I don't get what the problem is ? .... –Davey2010^Talk 04:31, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Davey2010: These both articles were reverted by Sportsfan 1234, the problems are less awkward grammar, cohesion and tone. That would make sure to prove better sentences. ApprenticeFan ^work 04:35, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Oh right sorry, So have you tried talking to the editors on the respective talkpages?, BTW you need to provide diffs of the issue aswell otherwise your complaint won't get far, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 04:39, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Yeah. I checked one on The Amazing Race 27 talk page and there's an analysis of these reports were made by ESAD-Hooker itself, Masem, and etc. ApprenticeFan ^work 07:46, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

This looks to be largely a content dispute. WP:DRN may be a better place to discuss this. Blackmane (talk) 13:31, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Back again. I did make a file at WP:DRN and this was a premature case. ApprenticeFan ^work 02:41, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

My observation was, on 14 February 2016‎, in less than 1 hour, ApprenticeFan removed over 3,000 bytes. I don't think an article can be pruned with detail in that amount of time. The results of that pruning substantiates my observation ESAD-Hooker (talk) 18:33, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Your post at DRN was removed because you hadn't fufilled the base requirements: Where was there previous discussion on the Article Talk Page or User Pages? Based on the fact that this is a perenial problem, perhaps opening an RFC to establish consensus at Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/The Amazing Race task force (or WikiProject Television in the context of many reality TV series) would be a good idea. Hasteur (talk) 22:55, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, there is a discussion on Talk:The Amazing Race 25#New TAR Clue Format and Summaries which the now-banned Ryulong made an idea to clean up the race summary, merging with Route Info, Detour, Roadblock or Route Info, Roadblock, Detour through a leg summary in order. ApprenticeFan ^work 06:48, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

A discussion from 2014 does not constitute The dispute must have been recently discussed extensively on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to be eligible for help at DRN. and as such the request was dismissed. Please stop slinging mud regarding banned users due to the fact that it only undermines your position. Hasteur (talk) 12:43, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Apparently, I added Sportsfan 1234 in the list above, and look at those edits that I made with shortened sentences:

Before

Leg 1 (United States → Brazil) The Detour in Rio de Janeiro had teams take part in beach-related tasks on the famous Copacabana Beach. Airdate: September 25, 2015 Los Angeles, California, United States (Venice Beach) (Starting Line) Marina del Rey (Mother's Beach to Burton Chace Park) Los Angeles (Los Angeles International Airport) to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (Rio de Janeiro–Galeão International Airport) Rio de Janeiro (Lagoa Heliport, Christ the Redeemer and Urca Hill) Rio de Janeiro (Clube São Conrado Free Flight) Template:Pt icon Rio de Janeiro (Copacabana Beach) Rio de Janeiro (Arpoador Lookout) At the start of The Amazing Race 27, in public view in Venice Beach, California, Phil Keoghan told the eleven teams where they would travel first: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Their first task was to take a taxi to Mother's Beach in Marina del Rey and grab a Schiller water-bike. Then, they would drive it to Burton Chace Park. The first team to complete this task would receive the only tickets on the first flight while all the other teams would be on the second flight, departing half an hour later. Upon arriving in Rio de Janeiro, teams had to travel to Lagoa Heliport to get either a Route Info or a Fast Forward clue. For the Fast Forward, teams made their way to Clube São Conrado Free Flight where they had to ride a hang glider from Pedra Bonita and soar above the city. The teams who did not go for the Fast Forward had to pick a number and take a helicopter past Christ the Redeemer on the way to Urca Hill. Once landed, the helicopter manager would ask the teams, "What's the name of the monument you passed during the flight?" If teams gave the right answer, which was Christ the Redeemer, they would receive their next clue. The clue was a Detour, and the teams choose between Sand or Sidewalk. Both Detours had teams travel to Copacabana Beach where they changed into swimsuits. In Sand, teams had to play footvolley against local professional players. While the pros could not use their hands, the teams could. If teams can score six points before the pros scored eighteen, they will receive their next clue. In Sidewalk, teams had to do a giant geometric slide puzzle derived from the famous Copacabana pavement (a Portuguese pavement). Once teams completed the puzzle, they would receive their next clue. Both clues then directed teams to Arpoador Lookout for the Pit Stop. Leg 2 (Brazil → Argentina) Upon arriving in Buenos Aires, teams visited the room where the famous Argentine, Pope Francis, was baptized inside Basílica María Auxiliadora y San Carlos. Airdate: October 2, 2015 Rio de Janeiro (Rio de Janeiro–Galeão International Airport) to Buenos Aires, Argentina (Ministro Pistarini International Airport) Buenos Aires (Basílica María Auxiliadora y San Carlos Template:Es icon) Buenos Aires (Intersection of Uriarte, Fray Justo Santa Maria and El Salvador Streets or Plaza Dorrego – Gabriel del Campo Antique Shop and Plaza Intendente Seeber – Gazebo) Buenos Aires (Calle Bartolomé Mitre – AEREA 1º Escuela Mundial de Danza Aerea Template:Es icon) Buenos Aires (Campo Argentino de Polo) At the start of the leg, teams were told to fly to Buenos Aires, the capital city of Argentina. Upon arrival in Buenos Aires, teams had to locate the church where Pope Francis was baptized, leaving them to figure out that this refers to Basílica María Auxiliadora y San Carlos. Once at the church, teams had to pick a number in the order in which they arrived. The following morning, teams went inside the church, one at a time, to find the altar room, where the priest would give them their next clue. The clue was for the Detour, giving teams the choice of Cartoneros or Fletero. In Cartoneros, teams traveled to the Villa Crespo neighborhood at the intersection of Uriarte, Fray Justo Santa Maria and El Salvador Streets, where they had to pick up a cart, collect cardboard from recyclable bins, and transport it to a truck to be weighed. Once the cardboard reached a total weight of at least 100 kilograms (220 lb), the garbage worker would give them their next clue. However, there were only 8 carts available at a time. In Fletero, teams traveled to Plaza Dorrego and made their way to a Gabriel del Campo Antique Shop to pick up a statue, in pieces, and bring it to a truck. One team member would sit in the front and give the driver directions, while the other would hold the statue pieces in the back until reaching their next destination, the gazebo at Plaza Intendente Sebeer. Once they arrive at the park, they must bring all of the statue pieces, re-assemble them properly, and show the park director. If it's correct, they would get their next clue. The clues instructed teams to travel to Calle Bartolomé Mitre to search for their next clue, the Roadblock, asking "Who wants to go sideways?" One team member had to learn a tango routine with a twist, for the second half of the dance they were harnessed and had to finish the steps on the wall of a stage. Once they performed the entire routine correctly, they would receive their next clue, directing them to "The Cathedral of Polo", referring to Campo Argentino de Polo, for the Pit Stop. Leg 3 (Argentina) For the Roadblock in the Pampas region, team members had to properly hang a set of lamb and beef to make asado, an Argentine national dish. Airdate: October 9, 2015 Retiro (Retiro bus station) to San Antonio de Areco (Areco Bus Station) San Antonio de Areco (La Porteña) San Antonio de Areco (Plaza Principal) San Antonio de Areco (Boliche de Bessonart and Riverside or La Cinacina Estancia) San Antonio de Areco (Parque Criollo y Museo Gauchesco Ricardo Güiraldes) Teams headed to San Antonio de Areco in the Pampas region and choose a pickup truck to proceed to their next destination, La Porteña. The Roadblock clue that one team member had to hang two racks of lamb and one rack of beef ribs to cook an asado. Once all meats were secured and skewered in the right direction, they received their next clue. Teams had to bring a roasted lamb and deliver to Plaza Principal to the judges for their Detour clue. In Horse, teams had to pick a polo mallet and change into polo gear. Then, they walk to a nearby riverside for a fake horse involved to navigate using a tack, then they had to push properly back to a Plaza. In Carriage, teams had to pick a buggy whip, travel by foot to La Cinacina Estancia, changed into Gaucho clothing, clean a carriage and then push it to a team of waiting horses. Once the horses were harnessed on a buggy, they rode back to the Plaza. At the end of both Detours, teams presented either the fake horse or whip to the judges and receive their next clue, instructing them to travel by foot to the Pit Stop at Parque Criollo y Museo Gauchesco Ricardo Güiraldes. Leg 4 (Argentina → Zambia → Zimbabwe) While in Zambia, teams visited Victoria Falls, the largest waterfall in the world, which is also one of the seven natural wonders of the world. Airdate: October 16, 2015 San Antonio de Areco (Plaza Principal) San Antonio de Areco (Areco Bus Station) to Retiro, Buenos Aires (Retiro bus station) Buenos Aires (Ministro Pistarini International Airport) to Livingstone, Zambia (Harry Mwanga Nkumbula International Airport) Livingstone District (Mukuni Village) Livingstone (Batoka Aerodrome) Mosi-oa-Tunya National Park (Victoria Falls – Knife's Edge) Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe (Shoestrings Backpackers Lodge) (Overnight rest) Victoria Falls (The Big Five Co-Op or Victoria Falls Hotel) Victoria Falls (Rose of Charity Orphanage) Teams traveled to Livingstone, Zambia, with an advise to task their flight tickets to Johannesburg and given two separate flights to Zambia. Upon arrival, they traveled to Mukini Village to take part in a traditional welcome ceremony involving them to spit water from a blessing to be received their clue, heading to Batoka Aerodrome for a Roadblock. The team member had to choose a microlight plane fly above Victoria Falls to locate the Route Marker right below Knife's Edge bridge. Once landed, they reunited with their partner and traveled to that bridge to walk across for their next clue, sending them to Shoestrings Backpackers Lodge to Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe to claim one of three departure times for the next day. On departure, teams received their Detour clue. In Co-Op, teams made their way to The Big Five Co-Op and had to stain and polish a carved wooden giraffe. When it was properly painted and dried, a woodcarver would give them their next clue. In Croquet, teams made their way to Victoria Falls Hotel and had to play croquet, scoring five points against professional players to receive their next clue, directed them to Rose of Charity Orphanage for the Pit Stop. Before checking in, teams were asked to donate their money to the orphanage, and were informed that the next leg was to begin immediately. Leg 5 (Zimbabwe) This leg of the race featured the first challenge of Season 1 where they had to swing across Batoka Gorge. Airdate: October 23, 2015 Victoria Falls (The Lookout Café) Victoria Falls National Park (Batoka Gorge) Victoria Falls (Elephants Walk Shopping and Artist Village – Crocodile Cage Diving or A Zambezi River Lodge) Victoria Falls (Masuwe Safari Lodge – The Lion Encounter) Victoria Falls (Masuwe Safari Lodge – Masuwe Private Game Reserve) Teams traveled to the Lookout Cafe for the Roadblock. The team member participated in the very first task from Season 1, which they had to strap on a harness and free fall 200 feet (61 m) into the Batoka Gorge and swing above the Zambezi River. Once they returned to the top, they would get their Detour clue. In Crocs, where teams changed into wetsuits and submerged in a metal cage to feed meat to three Nile crocodiles using poles. Once the meat was fed, they received their next clue. In Canoes, teams had to get an inflatable canoe and paddle together across the river. Once they arrived at the riverbank, the member had to hoist their partner up a tree to retrieve the clue from a vulture's nest, and had to paddle back across the river. Teams traveled to The Lion Encounter where they walk through the bush accompanied by safari instructors and two lions to find their next clue in a skull, with two teams were permitted at a time, directed them to walk to Masuwe Private Game Reserve to receive a large cloth and wore around their heads. Each they had to get a basket of fruit at Masuwe Lodge to carry on their heads and continue walking carefully to the Pit Stop. Leg 6 (Zimbabwe → France) The world's famous Arc de Triomphe in Paris, which is also the second Pit Stop in the first season, served as the Pit Stop for this leg of the Race. Airdate: October 30, 2015 Victoria Falls National Park (Victoria Falls Bridge) Livingstone, Zambia (Harry Mwanga Nkumbula International Airport) to Paris, France (Charles de Gaulle Airport) Roissy-en-France (Aéroport Charles de Gaulle 2 TGV) to La Ferté-Alais (Gare de La Ferté-Alais Template:Fr icon) Cerny (Aérodrome Musée Volant Salis Template:Fr icon) La Ferté-Alais (Gare de La Ferté-Alais) to Paris Paris (Sacré-Cœur Basilica – Square Louise-Michel Template:Fr icon) Paris (Quai de la Tournelle or La Coupole Template:Fr icon) Paris (Pont Alexandre III) Paris (Place Charles de Gaulle overlooking Arc de Triomphe) Teams started the leg to receive the Roadblock clue, one team member had to strap on a harness and bungee jump 364 feet (111 m) below Victoria Falls Bridge. Once returned to the top, they had to write their heart rate from a Fitbit fitness watch where they advise to track this information to be used for the upcoming challenge. They received their clue and headed to Paris, France. Upon arrival, they traveled by train to La Ferté-Alais to find Aérodrome Musée Volant Salis for the second Roadblock, the other team member must fly in a vintage Boeing PT-17 biplane over the French countryside to spot three words from the French Revolution motto seen from the ground: liberté, égalité, fraternité. Once recite them, a pilot would give them their next clue, sending them to travel Square Louise-Michel around Sacré-Cœur Basilica for Le Fantôme Blanc who would hand the Detour clue. One selection is Drops Mic, teams had to head to Quai de la Tournelle and perform a rap song by rapper Passi in Standard French. If their French pronunciation, rhythm and vibes were correct, Passi would give them their next clue. The other is Bust a Crab, teams had to travel to La Coupole Restaurant to work the Royal Platter, a signature crab dish to shuck and crack crabs properly with the chef's standards. At the end of both Detours, teams received a post card depicting a bridge, which was given to their next location, Pont Alexandre III to find their next clue, sending them to the Pit Stop "across from the iconic monument where the first team will triumph", referring to Place Charles de Gaulle, overlooking Arc de Triomphe, Phil informed them to start the next leg began immediately. Leg 7 (France → The Netherlands) The windmills around Kinderdijk are the site of this leg's Roadblock, where they had to search for a duplicate of the famous Van Gogh's Sunflowers painting. Airdate: November 6, 2015 Paris (Gare du Nord) to Rotterdam, The Netherlands (Rotterdam Centraal railway station) Rotterdam (Leuvehaven Template:Nl icon – Vessel 11) (Overnight rest) Rotterdam (Kop van Zuid) to Molenwaard (Kinderdijk Windmill) Schiedam (Nolet Distillery) Rotterdam (Millennium Tower or Leuvehoofd Template:Nl icon overlooking Erasmus Bridge) Rotterdam (Rotterdam Centraal railway station) to The Hague (Den Haag Centraal railway station) The Hague (Peace Palace) Teams traveled to Rotterdam, Netherlands, in addition, they received a picture of a ship to figure out their next location was Vessel 11 to pick departure times within 15-minutes intervals for the next day. On departure, teams traveled to Kop van Zuid and had to embark the windmills in Kinderdijk for the Roadblock. One team member to find an exact duplicate of Vincent van Gogh's Sunflowers around nearby windmills. Once they found the correct duplicate, a miller would give them their next clue, instructed to use a Fitbit health card to record their highest heart rate from the previous leg and this heart rate from this task to subtract the difference. The solution would equal the number of tulips to pick up and deliver to the Spakenburgermeisje for their next clue. Teams headed to Nolet Distillery to face the Detour which they rode by tram into a specific location. In Ship, teams made their way to Millennium Tower using a training simulator to navigate a simulation of Rotterdam Harbour in stormy weather to take on a two-part mission. First, they deliver a pilot to a ship, next they went to the aid of a ship in distress. If successfully completed the mission, the captain would give their next clue. However, if they failed the mission and must try again. In Skip, teams traveled to Leuvehoofd Park and to complete a Double Dutch clapping routine on a jump rope for 45 seconds to receive their next clue, instructed them to The Hague and ride a tram to the Pit Stop at the Peace Palace. Leg 8 (The Netherlands → Poland) In Kraków, teams visited the infamous Oskar Schindler Factory to commemorate the lives of Jews killed in World War II. Airdate: November 13, 2015 The Hague (Den Haag Centraal railway station) to Amsterdam (Schiphol railway station) Amsterdam (Amsterdam Airport Schiphol) to Kraków, Poland (John Paul II International Airport Kraków–Balice) Kraków (Plaża Kraków) Kraków (Main Square) or Wieliczka (Wieliczka Salt Mine) Kraków (Oskar Schindler Factory) Kraków (Kazimierz) Kraków (Klezmer-Hois) Teams traveled to Kraków, Poland where they provide a smartphone to use the Travelocity app to book tickets. They traveled to Plaża Kraków, a hotel boat on Vistula River and the team member swam down for a clue into the pool. One Detour selection is Mine and teams head to Wieliczka Salt Mine to descend 1,000 feet (300 m) into the salt mine. Then, they had to carry a large timber support beam into a loading area, filling a mine cart with salt and pushed it back through the tunnel to a miner. The other Detour choice is Music and teams headed to the Main Square to choose a professional pianist, learn a musical piece and roll the piano through the streets to a performance area. Then, they had to perform a duet with a violinist in order to attract donations that enough to earn 100 zł (approximately US$25), they would receive their next clue. Teams arrived at Oskar Schindler Factory to the lives of Jewish people were saved during Kraków Ghetto. They gave a tour to commemorate the lives of Polish Jews, passed through Schindler's office to look 1,200 names inside the memorial room. Once they ended the tour, they received their clue to Kazimierz for a Roadblock. One team member had to identify seven traditional Jewish dishes from a writing list in the correct order, and then deliver them on a tray to a nearby restaurant, Klezmer-Hois. Once all of these dishes were correct, the restaurant owner would give them their next clue, directing them to the Pit Stop inside the restaurant. Leg 9 (Poland → India) Mehtab Bagh in Agra, overlooking the famous Taj Mahal, which is also one of the seven wonders of the world, served as the Pit Stop for this leg of the Race. Airdate: November 20, 2015 Kraków (John Paul II International Airport Kraków–Balice) to Delhi, India (Indira Gandhi International Airport) New Delhi (New Delhi railway station) to Agra (Agra Cantonment railway station) Agra District (Yamuna River – Hathi Ghat) Agra (Johri Bazar – Hanuman Temple) Mathura District (Chhata Bazar) Agra (Bijli Ghar Chauraha Roundabout) Agra (Mehtab Bagh) Teams headed to Agra, India, first they needed to travel by plane to Delhi. In Agra, they traveled to Hathi Ghat on a beach, the Roadblock where one team member had to transport a bundle of saris down to the banks of Yamuna River to shown how to tie for a traditional Indian washing to all of which saris are tied correctly, they had to wash them in a basin, transport across to beach to lay out for a dry. The Speed Bump required both team members must perform this task. Next, they went to Hanuman Temple in Johri Bazaar to receive a traditional Indian blessing for a Detour. In Cans, teams had to load and secure 120 metal cooking oil cans onto a flatbed bicycle through the crowded streets to deliver them to New Taj Oil Company. Once they were unloaded, they received their next clue. In Candy, teams had to cut small pieces from winter melons to make petha. Once the pieces weighed in at 1 maund (90 lb), and deliver the already packed petha to Pancchi Petha Candy Store to receive their next clue. Teams instructed to travel to Bijli Ghar Chauraha Roundabout for their next clue, directed the teams to travel to "Moonlight Garden", known locally as Mehtab Bagh, across the river from the famous Taj Mahal, and search the grounds for the Pit Stop. Leg 10 (India) This leg of the race paid tribute to the tradition of Indian Hindu wedding rituals, including Baraat. Airdate: November 27, 2015 Agra (Kachora Bazaar) Agra (Shri Raj Complex – Goyal Book Store) Shamsabad, Agra (Shri Ram Complex) Shamsabad, Agra (Shri Ramchandra Farm House) The leg teams heading to Kachora Bazaar for a Roadblock. One team member had to use a pump to inflate enough balloons to fill a net attached at the back of a bicycle. Once the net was full, they rode across Yamuna bridge to deliver the balloons to a wedding planner on the other side for the next clue, instructing teams to head to Goyal Book Store. From there, they faced with the Detour. In Bring the Groom, teams had to hand-crank a portable generator until it produced enough power to light up a cumbersome candelabrum. Then they had to join a Baraat procession through the streets, the team member carrying the candelabrum while the other carried the generator, to escort a groom to his wedding party at Shri Ram Complex. Once the groom was delivered to his bride, they received their next clue. In Bring the Fun, teams had to push a mobile amusement swing through the crowded streets to deliver it to the outside playground at the same wedding party, then give eight children a ride in it to receive their next clue, instructed them to a Pit Stop inside the Shri Ramchandra Farm House. Leg 11 (India → Hong Kong, China → Macau, China) The Roadblock for this leg need teams to go to the Dancing Water Theatre inside City of Dreams in Macau where they took part in a performance of The House of Dancing Water. Airdate: December 4, 2015 Delhi (Indira Gandhi International Airport) to Chek Lap Kok, Hong Kong , China (Hong Kong International Airport) Tsim Sha Tsui (The Peninsula Hong Kong) Tsim Sha Tsui (Sam's Tailor and Sam's Workshop) or Sham Shui Po (Apliu Street and Kweilin Street) Sheung Wan (Hong Kong–Macau Ferry Terminal) to Macau Peninsula, Macau (Outer Harbour Ferry Terminal) Cotai (City of Dreams – Dancing Water Theatre) Macau Peninsula (Centro Náutico da Praia Grande overlooking Nam Van Lake) Teams headed to Hong Kong. Upon arrival, they search a waiting Rolls-Royce at the airport to escort them to The Peninsula Hong Kong to their Detour. In Sam's, teams traveled to Sam's Tailor to pick up measurements for a suit jacket to a nearby Sam's Workshop, to properly cut out six template pieces of a matching design. They then had to deliver a finished suit to receive their next clue. In Cells, teams had to find to a marked store on Apliu Street, search boxes of used cell phones which one is turned on and dial a phone number displayed on the phone, the message would instruct them to an address on Kweilin Street to find their next clue. Teams traveled to Macau by ferry, and make their way to the Dancing Water Theatre inside City of Dreams for a Roadblock. One team member must apply a makeup and change a costume, had to take part in a performance of The House of Dancing Water. After diving over 30 feet (9.1 m) from the central mast-shaped platform into the surrounding pool, search a golden fish under the water and swim across to a fisherman on a raft. If they didn't complete before stopped the music and wait twenty minutes for the next performance to start over. That team member received their clue instructed to Centro Náutico da Praia Grande at the side of the Nam Van Lake and search for the Pit Stop. Leg 12 (Macau, China → United States) The final Roadblock of The Amazing Race 27 paid tribute to the NYC Fire Department by having teams take part in a firefighter training exercise. Airdate: December 11, 2015 Central, Hong Kong (Conrad Hotel Hong Kong) Chek Lap Kok (Hong Kong International Airport) to New York City, New York, United States (John F. Kennedy International Airport) Manhattan (Randall's Island – NYC Fire Department Training Facility) Elmont, Long Island (Belmont Park) Southampton, The Hamptons (Southampton Heliport) Southampton (Shinnecock East County Park) Southampton (1620 Meadow Lane) Teams headed to New York City, the final destination city and made their way to NYC Fire Department Training Facility at Randall's Island for the final Roadblock. One team member had to don a firefighter's uniform to take part for a stunt training exercise. After climbing a ladder to an open window of a burning building, search inside for a dummy representing a victim. Once they exited the building with the dummy, they had to place it onto a waiting stretcher. The second part of the Roadblock was a memory task, they had to arrange firefighters' hats labeled with the capital cities of the countries visited during the Race in chronological order: Country Capital Brazil Brasília Argentina Buenos Aires Zambia Lusaka Zimbabwe Harare France Paris The Netherlands Amsterdam Poland Warsaw India New Delhi China Beijing Once all the hats were placed in the correct order, a firefighter would give them their next clue. Teams traveled to Belmont Park in Long Island and take a helicopter ride to Southampton. From there, they searched for their next clue to travel on foot nearly a mile to Shinnecock East County Park where had to ride a jet ski to a lobster boat, pull seven lobster traps from the water, empty them, and replace them with new traps. Once completed, they received a box containing the flags from the countries visited and tie them on a mast in order. Once they got the right order, a fisherman would give them their next clue, instructing them to swim to shore, and had to drive dune buggies down the beach for the third memory challenge. They had to assemble six Adirondack chairs things encountered during the Race must arrange them in chronological order. If the chairs were in the correct order (the water bike, the Argentine tango, an African lion, a Dutch windmill, India's Taj Mahal, and Hong Kong's Rolls Royce), the carpenter would get their final clue, directing them to travel on foot to the estate at 1620 Meadow Lane for the Finish Line.

After

Leg 1 (United States → Brazil) The Detour in Rio de Janeiro had teams take part in beach-related tasks on the famous Copacabana Beach. Airdate: September 25, 2015 Los Angeles, California, United States (Venice Beach) (Starting Line) Marina del Rey (Mother's Beach to Burton Chace Park) Los Angeles (Los Angeles International Airport) to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (Rio de Janeiro–Galeão International Airport) Rio de Janeiro (Lagoa Heliport, Christ the Redeemer and Urca Hill) Rio de Janeiro (Clube São Conrado Free Flight) Template:Pt icon Rio de Janeiro (Copacabana Beach) Rio de Janeiro (Arpoador Lookout) The race started in Venice Beach, Phil Keoghan told the teams to travel to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. First, take them to Mother's Beach to ride Schiller water-bike and end in Burton Chace Park, the first team to finish would get the first flight and the rest on the second. In Rio, teams had to travel to Lagoa Heliport and picked a number to ride a helicopter past around Christ the Redeemer to Urca Hill. Once landed, a helicopter pilot asked, "What's the name of the monument you passed during the flight?". If they say "Christ the Redeemer", they received their next clue. The Fast Forward where teams had to travel to Clube São Conrado Free Flight and had to ride a hang glider from Pedra Bonita high above the city. Teams faced the Detour and had to travel to Copacabana Beach, either option is to require to wear swimwear. In Sand, teams played footvolley against local professional players that could not user their hands, only teams could. The team gave a score of six points against the pros scored eighteen, they will receive their next clue. In Sidewalk, teams take part for a huge geometric slide puzzle from a famous Copacabana pavement (a Portuguese pavement). Once completed the puzzle, they would receive their next clue. Both clues then directed teams to Arpoador Lookout for the Pit Stop. Leg 2 (Brazil → Argentina) Upon arriving in Buenos Aires, teams visited the room where the famous Argentine, Pope Francis, was baptized inside Basílica María Auxiliadora y San Carlos. Airdate: October 2, 2015 Rio de Janeiro (Rio de Janeiro–Galeão International Airport) to Buenos Aires, Argentina (Ministro Pistarini International Airport) Buenos Aires (Basílica María Auxiliadora y San Carlos Template:Es icon) Buenos Aires (Intersection of Uriarte, Fray Justo Santa Maria and El Salvador Streets or Plaza Dorrego – Gabriel del Campo Antique Shop and Plaza Intendente Seeber – Gazebo) Buenos Aires (Calle Bartolomé Mitre – AEREA 1º Escuela Mundial de Danza Aerea Template:Es icon) Buenos Aires (Campo Argentino de Polo) Teams traveled to Buenos Aires, Argentina to the church where Pope Francis was baptized, leaving them to figure out was Basílica María Auxiliadora y San Carlos to pick one of three departure times the following morning. On their designated times, they find the altar room inside the church to look a priest to give them their Detour clue. In Cartoneros, teams teams traveled to the streets of Buenos Aires, had to pick up a cart, cardboard from recyclable bins, and transport to a truck to be weighed at least 100 kilograms (220 lb), the garbage worker received their next clue. However, there were only 8 carts available at a time. In Fletero, teams pick up a pieces of statue, and bring it to a truck. One team member sit in the front of the truck to give directions, the other hold the pieces to the Gazebo and must bring all of the statue pieces to re-assemble properly to the park director. If its correct, they would receive their next clue. From the Detour, teams instructed to head to Calle Bartolomé Mitre for a Roadblock. One team member had to learn a tango upside down, the second part had to harnessed and finish the steps from a stage. Once they performed the entire routine correctly, they would receive their next clue to the Pit Stop known as "The Cathedral of Polo", referring to Campo Argentino de Polo. Leg 3 (Argentina) For the Roadblock in the Pampas region, team members had to properly hang a set of lamb and beef to make asado, an Argentine national dish. Airdate: October 9, 2015 Retiro (Retiro bus station) to San Antonio de Areco (Areco Bus Station) San Antonio de Areco (La Porteña) San Antonio de Areco (Plaza Principal) San Antonio de Areco (Boliche de Bessonart and Riverside or La Cinacina Estancia) San Antonio de Areco (Parque Criollo y Museo Gauchesco Ricardo Güiraldes) Teams headed to San Antonio de Areco in the Pampas region and choose a pickup truck to proceed to their next destination, La Porteña. The Roadblock clue that one team member had to hang two racks of lamb and one rack of beef ribs to cook an asado. Once all meats were secured and skewered in the right direction, they received their next clue. Teams had to bring a roasted lamb and deliver to Plaza Principal to the judges for their Detour clue. In Horse, teams had to pick a polo mallet and change into polo gear. Then, they walk to a nearby riverside for a fake horse involved to navigate using a tack, then they had to push properly back to a Plaza. In Carriage, teams had to pick a buggy whip, travel by foot to La Cinacina Estancia, changed into Gaucho clothing, clean a carriage and then push it to a team of waiting horses. Once the horses were harnessed on a buggy, they rode back to the Plaza. At the end of both Detours, teams presented either the fake horse or whip to the judges and receive their next clue, instructing them to travel by foot to the Pit Stop at Parque Criollo y Museo Gauchesco Ricardo Güiraldes. Leg 4 (Argentina → Zambia → Zimbabwe) While in Zambia, teams visited Victoria Falls, the largest waterfall in the world, which is also one of the seven natural wonders of the world. Airdate: October 16, 2015 San Antonio de Areco (Plaza Principal) San Antonio de Areco (Areco Bus Station) to Retiro, Buenos Aires (Retiro bus station) Buenos Aires (Ministro Pistarini International Airport) to Livingstone, Zambia (Harry Mwanga Nkumbula International Airport) Livingstone District (Mukuni Village) Livingstone (Batoka Aerodrome) Mosi-oa-Tunya National Park (Victoria Falls – Knife's Edge) Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe (Shoestrings Backpackers Lodge) (Overnight rest) Victoria Falls (The Big Five Co-Op or Victoria Falls Hotel) Victoria Falls (Rose of Charity Orphanage) Teams traveled to Livingstone, Zambia, with an advise to task their flight tickets to Johannesburg and given two separate flights to Zambia. Upon arrival, they traveled to Mukini Village to take part in a traditional welcome ceremony involving them to spit water from a blessing to be received their clue, heading to Batoka Aerodrome for a Roadblock. The team member had to choose a microlight plane fly above Victoria Falls to locate the Route Marker right below Knife's Edge bridge. Once landed, they reunited with their partner and traveled to that bridge to walk across for their next clue, sending them to Shoestrings Backpackers Lodge to Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe to claim one of three departure times for the next day. On departure, teams received their Detour clue. In Co-Op, teams made their way to The Big Five Co-Op and had to stain and polish a carved wooden giraffe. When it was properly painted and dried, a woodcarver would give them their next clue. In Croquet, teams made their way to Victoria Falls Hotel and had to play croquet, scoring five points against professional players to receive their next clue, directed them to Rose of Charity Orphanage for the Pit Stop. Before checking in, teams were asked to donate their money to the orphanage, and were informed that the next leg was to begin immediately. Leg 5 (Zimbabwe) This leg of the race featured the first challenge of Season 1 where they had to swing across Batoka Gorge. Airdate: October 23, 2015 Victoria Falls (The Lookout Café) Victoria Falls National Park (Batoka Gorge) Victoria Falls (Elephants Walk Shopping and Artist Village – Crocodile Cage Diving or A Zambezi River Lodge) Victoria Falls (Masuwe Safari Lodge – The Lion Encounter) Victoria Falls (Masuwe Safari Lodge – Masuwe Private Game Reserve) Teams traveled to the Lookout Cafe for the Roadblock. The team member participated in the very first task from Season 1, which they had to strap on a harness and free fall 200 feet (61 m) into the Batoka Gorge and swing above the Zambezi River. Once they returned to the top, they would get their Detour clue. In Crocs, where teams changed into wetsuits and submerged in a metal cage to feed meat to three Nile crocodiles using poles. Once the meat was fed, they received their next clue. In Canoes, teams had to get an inflatable canoe and paddle together across the river. Once they arrived at the riverbank, the member had to hoist their partner up a tree to retrieve the clue from a vulture's nest, and had to paddle back across the river. Teams traveled to The Lion Encounter where they walk through the bush accompanied by safari instructors and two lions to find their next clue in a skull, with two teams were permitted at a time, directed them to walk to Masuwe Private Game Reserve to receive a large cloth and wore around their heads. Each they had to get a basket of fruit at Masuwe Lodge to carry on their heads and continue walking carefully to the Pit Stop. Leg 6 (Zimbabwe → France) The world's famous Arc de Triomphe in Paris, which is also the second Pit Stop in the first season, served as the Pit Stop for this leg of the Race. Airdate: October 30, 2015 Victoria Falls National Park (Victoria Falls Bridge) Livingstone, Zambia (Harry Mwanga Nkumbula International Airport) to Paris, France (Charles de Gaulle Airport) Roissy-en-France (Aéroport Charles de Gaulle 2 TGV) to La Ferté-Alais (Gare de La Ferté-Alais Template:Fr icon) Cerny (Aérodrome Musée Volant Salis Template:Fr icon) La Ferté-Alais (Gare de La Ferté-Alais) to Paris Paris (Sacré-Cœur Basilica – Square Louise-Michel Template:Fr icon) Paris (Quai de la Tournelle or La Coupole Template:Fr icon) Paris (Pont Alexandre III) Paris (Place Charles de Gaulle overlooking Arc de Triomphe) Teams started the leg to receive the Roadblock clue, one team member had to strap on a harness and bungee jump 364 feet (111 m) below Victoria Falls Bridge. Once returned to the top, they had to write their heart rate from a Fitbit fitness watch where they advise to track this information to be used for the upcoming challenge. They received their clue and headed to Paris, France. Upon arrival, they traveled by train to La Ferté-Alais to find Aérodrome Musée Volant Salis for the second Roadblock, the other team member must fly in a vintage Boeing PT-17 biplane over the French countryside to spot three words from the French Revolution motto seen from the ground: liberté, égalité, fraternité. Once recite them, a pilot would give them their next clue, sending them to travel Square Louise-Michel around Sacré-Cœur Basilica for Le Fantôme Blanc who would hand the Detour clue. One selection is Drops Mic, teams had to head to Quai de la Tournelle and perform a rap song by rapper Passi in Standard French. If their French pronunciation, rhythm and vibes were correct, Passi would give them their next clue. The other is Bust a Crab, teams had to travel to La Coupole Restaurant to work the Royal Platter, a signature crab dish to shuck and crack crabs properly with the chef's standards. At the end of both Detours, teams received a post card depicting a bridge, which was given to their next location, Pont Alexandre III to find their next clue, sending them to the Pit Stop "across from the iconic monument where the first team will triumph", referring to Place Charles de Gaulle, overlooking Arc de Triomphe, Phil informed them to start the next leg began immediately. Leg 7 (France → The Netherlands) The windmills around Kinderdijk are the site of this leg's Roadblock, where they had to search for a duplicate of the famous Van Gogh's Sunflowers painting. Airdate: November 6, 2015 Paris (Gare du Nord) to Rotterdam, The Netherlands (Rotterdam Centraal railway station) Rotterdam (Leuvehaven Template:Nl icon – Vessel 11) (Overnight rest) Rotterdam (Kop van Zuid) to Molenwaard (Kinderdijk Windmill) Schiedam (Nolet Distillery) Rotterdam (Millennium Tower or Leuvehoofd Template:Nl icon overlooking Erasmus Bridge) Rotterdam (Rotterdam Centraal railway station) to The Hague (Den Haag Centraal railway station) The Hague (Peace Palace) Teams traveled to Rotterdam, Netherlands, in addition, they received a picture of a ship to figure out their next location was Vessel 11 to pick departure times within 15-minutes intervals for the next day. On departure, teams traveled to Kop van Zuid and had to embark the windmills in Kinderdijk for the Roadblock. One team member to find an exact duplicate of Vincent van Gogh's Sunflowers around nearby windmills. Once they found the correct duplicate, a miller would give them their next clue, instructed to use a Fitbit health card to record their highest heart rate from the previous leg and this heart rate from this task to subtract the difference. The solution would equal the number of tulips to pick up and deliver to the Spakenburgermeisje for their next clue. Teams headed to Nolet Distillery to face the Detour which they rode by tram into a specific location. In Ship, teams made their way to Millennium Tower using a training simulator to navigate a simulation of Rotterdam Harbour in stormy weather to take on a two-part mission. First, they deliver a pilot to a ship, next they went to the aid of a ship in distress. If successfully completed the mission, the captain would give their next clue. However, if they failed the mission and must try again. In Skip, teams traveled to Leuvehoofd Park and to complete a Double Dutch clapping routine on a jump rope for 45 seconds to receive their next clue, instructed them to The Hague and ride a tram to the Pit Stop at the Peace Palace. Leg 8 (The Netherlands → Poland) In Kraków, teams visited the infamous Oskar Schindler Factory to commemorate the lives of Jews killed in World War II. Airdate: November 13, 2015 The Hague (Den Haag Centraal railway station) to Amsterdam (Schiphol railway station) Amsterdam (Amsterdam Airport Schiphol) to Kraków, Poland (John Paul II International Airport Kraków–Balice) Kraków (Plaża Kraków) Kraków (Main Square) or Wieliczka (Wieliczka Salt Mine) Kraków (Oskar Schindler Factory) Kraków (Kazimierz) Kraków (Klezmer-Hois) Teams traveled to Kraków, Poland where they provide a smartphone to use the Travelocity app to book tickets. They traveled to Plaża Kraków, a hotel boat on Vistula River and the team member swam down for a clue into the pool. One Detour selection is Mine and teams head to Wieliczka Salt Mine to descend 1,000 feet (300 m) into the salt mine. Then, they had to carry a large timber support beam into a loading area, filling a mine cart with salt and pushed it back through the tunnel to a miner. The other Detour choice is Music and teams headed to the Main Square to choose a professional pianist, learn a musical piece and roll the piano through the streets to a performance area. Then, they had to perform a duet with a violinist in order to attract donations that enough to earn 100 zł (approximately US$25), they would receive their next clue. Teams arrived at Oskar Schindler Factory to the lives of Jewish people were saved during Kraków Ghetto. They gave a tour to commemorate the lives of Polish Jews, passed through Schindler's office to look 1,200 names inside the memorial room. Once they ended the tour, they received their clue to Kazimierz for a Roadblock. One team member had to identify seven traditional Jewish dishes from a writing list in the correct order, and then deliver them on a tray to a nearby restaurant, Klezmer-Hois. Once all of these dishes were correct, the restaurant owner would give them their next clue, directing them to the Pit Stop inside the restaurant. Leg 9 (Poland → India) Mehtab Bagh in Agra, overlooking the famous Taj Mahal, which is also one of the seven wonders of the world, served as the Pit Stop for this leg of the Race. Airdate: November 20, 2015 Kraków (John Paul II International Airport Kraków–Balice) to Delhi, India (Indira Gandhi International Airport) New Delhi (New Delhi railway station) to Agra (Agra Cantonment railway station) Agra District (Yamuna River – Hathi Ghat) Agra (Johri Bazar – Hanuman Temple) Mathura District (Chhata Bazar) Agra (Bijli Ghar Chauraha Roundabout) Agra (Mehtab Bagh) Teams headed to Agra, India, first they needed to travel by plane to Delhi. In Agra, they traveled to Hathi Ghat on a beach, the Roadblock where one team member had to transport a bundle of saris down to the banks of Yamuna River to shown how to tie for a traditional Indian washing to all of which saris are tied correctly, they had to wash them in a basin, transport across to beach to lay out for a dry. The Speed Bump required both team members must perform this task. Next, they went to Hanuman Temple in Johri Bazaar to receive a traditional Indian blessing for a Detour. In Cans, teams had to load and secure 120 metal cooking oil cans onto a flatbed bicycle through the crowded streets to deliver them to New Taj Oil Company. Once they were unloaded, they received their next clue. In Candy, teams had to cut small pieces from winter melons to make petha. Once the pieces weighed in at 1 maund (90 lb), and deliver the already packed petha to Pancchi Petha Candy Store to receive their next clue. Teams instructed to travel to Bijli Ghar Chauraha Roundabout for their next clue, directed the teams to travel to "Moonlight Garden", known locally as Mehtab Bagh, across the river from the famous Taj Mahal, and search the grounds for the Pit Stop. Leg 10 (India) This leg of the race paid tribute to the tradition of Indian Hindu wedding rituals, including Baraat. Airdate: November 27, 2015 Agra (Kachora Bazaar) Agra (Shri Raj Complex – Goyal Book Store) Shamsabad, Agra (Shri Ram Complex) Shamsabad, Agra (Shri Ramchandra Farm House) The leg teams heading to Kachora Bazaar for a Roadblock. One team member had to use a pump to inflate enough balloons to fill a net attached at the back of a bicycle. Once the net was full, they rode across Yamuna bridge to deliver the balloons to a wedding planner on the other side for the next clue, instructing teams to head to Goyal Book Store. From there, they faced with the Detour. In Bring the Groom, teams had to hand-crank a portable generator until it produced enough power to light up a cumbersome candelabrum. Then they had to join a Baraat procession through the streets, the team member carrying the candelabrum while the other carried the generator, to escort a groom to his wedding party at Shri Ram Complex. Once the groom was delivered to his bride, they received their next clue. In Bring the Fun, teams had to push a mobile amusement swing through the crowded streets to deliver it to the outside playground at the same wedding party, then give eight children a ride in it to receive their next clue, instructed them to a Pit Stop inside the Shri Ramchandra Farm House. Leg 11 (India → Hong Kong, China → Macau, China) The Roadblock for this leg need teams to go to the Dancing Water Theatre inside City of Dreams in Macau where they took part in a performance of The House of Dancing Water. Airdate: December 4, 2015 Delhi (Indira Gandhi International Airport) to Chek Lap Kok, Hong Kong , China (Hong Kong International Airport) Tsim Sha Tsui (The Peninsula Hong Kong) Tsim Sha Tsui (Sam's Tailor and Sam's Workshop) or Sham Shui Po (Apliu Street and Kweilin Street) Sheung Wan (Hong Kong–Macau Ferry Terminal) to Macau Peninsula, Macau (Outer Harbour Ferry Terminal) Cotai (City of Dreams – Dancing Water Theatre) Macau Peninsula (Centro Náutico da Praia Grande overlooking Nam Van Lake) Teams headed to Hong Kong. Upon arrival, they search a waiting Rolls-Royce at the airport to escort them to The Peninsula Hong Kong to their Detour. In Sam's, teams traveled to Sam's Tailor to pick up measurements for a suit jacket to a nearby Sam's Workshop, to properly cut out six template pieces of a matching design. They then had to deliver a finished suit to receive their next clue. In Cells, teams had to find to a marked store on Apliu Street, search boxes of used cell phones which one is turned on and dial a phone number displayed on the phone, the message would instruct them to an address on Kweilin Street to find their next clue. Teams traveled to Macau by ferry, and make their way to the Dancing Water Theatre inside City of Dreams for a Roadblock. One team member must apply a makeup and change a costume, had to take part in a performance of The House of Dancing Water. After diving over 30 feet (9.1 m) from the central mast-shaped platform into the surrounding pool, search a golden fish under the water and swim across to a fisherman on a raft. If they didn't complete before stopped the music and wait twenty minutes for the next performance to start over. That team member received their clue instructed to Centro Náutico da Praia Grande at the side of the Nam Van Lake and search for the Pit Stop. Leg 12 (Macau, China → United States) The final Roadblock of The Amazing Race 27 paid tribute to the NYC Fire Department by having teams take part in a firefighter training exercise. Airdate: December 11, 2015 Central, Hong Kong (Conrad Hotel Hong Kong) Chek Lap Kok (Hong Kong International Airport) to New York City, New York, United States (John F. Kennedy International Airport) Manhattan (Randall's Island – NYC Fire Department Training Facility) Elmont, Long Island (Belmont Park) Southampton, The Hamptons (Southampton Heliport) Southampton (Shinnecock East County Park) Southampton (1620 Meadow Lane) Teams headed to New York City, the final destination city and made their way to NYC Fire Department Training Facility at Randall's Island for the final Roadblock. One team member had to don a firefighter's uniform to take part for a stunt training exercise. After climbing a ladder to an open window of a burning building, search inside for a dummy representing a victim. Once they exited the building with the dummy, they had to place it onto a waiting stretcher. The second part of the Roadblock was a memory task, they had to arrange firefighters' hats labeled with the capital cities of the countries visited during the Race in chronological order: Country Capital Brazil Brasília Argentina Buenos Aires Zambia Lusaka Zimbabwe Harare France Paris The Netherlands Amsterdam Poland Warsaw India New Delhi China Beijing Once all the hats were placed in the correct order, a firefighter would give them their next clue. Teams traveled to Belmont Park in Long Island and take a helicopter ride to Southampton. From there, they searched for their next clue to travel on foot nearly a mile to Shinnecock East County Park where had to ride a jet ski to a lobster boat, pull seven lobster traps from the water, empty them, and replace them with new traps. Once completed, they received a box containing the flags from the countries visited and tie them on a mast in order. Once they got the right order, a fisherman would give them their next clue, instructing them to swim to shore, and had to drive dune buggies down the beach for the third memory challenge. They had to assemble six Adirondack chairs things encountered during the Race must arrange them in chronological order. If the chairs were in the correct order (the water bike, the Argentine tango, an African lion, a Dutch windmill, India's Taj Mahal, and Hong Kong's Rolls Royce), the carpenter would get their final clue, directing them to travel on foot to the estate at 1620 Meadow Lane for the Finish Line.

References

ESAD-Hooker fucked up my edits which wasn't look mess. That thing is we should use the after summary above which meets the standards of WP:NOT#PLOT. ApprenticeFan ^work 08:55, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

March 2016 User:Springee canvassing

User reported: Springee (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Notified user: William_M._Connolley at User_talk:William_M._Connolley notifying him of dispute at article Ford Pinto

Since you have had involvement with HughD, you should see how many edits he added to the Ford Pinto article. 200 in the 5 days before it was locked! Seriously, if you are brave you should give it a look.

diff: 21:01 10 March 2016

Spamming; notification of a user "with no significant connection to the topic at hand." Campaigning; non-neutral wording of notice. Vote stacking; active content discussions at article talk. Previous interaction with the targeted editor is not among the listed examples of appropriate reasons for notification to a user talk page at WP:APPNOTE.

Springee recent previous report by Scoobydunk for canvassing 2 December 2015: WP:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive907#User_Springee_Canvassing

Thank you. Hugh (talk) 19:22, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Not canvasing. No suggestion or request to edit the page. I'm simply blow away by HughD's ability to make 255 edits to a page since March 2nd including 3 days when the topic was locked! Springee (talk) 19:29, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

I agree that the edit shown here is not canvassing. I don't understand what the problem is, nor do I see where Hugh's direct involvement with the talk page conversation is. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 21:38, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Could we perhaps boomerang this into an assessment of HughD's editing 'style'. His shotgun attacks on the page, posting at a rate of about 1 edit per hour, night and day,for more than a week, plus the same on the talk page, when combined with a complete inability to answer a straight question with a straight answer, and his tendency to assume his arguments are the only ones that matter, make cooperating with him impossible. Greglocock (talk) 18:32, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Oshwah, I agree with Greglocock, an editor on the Pinto page, that HughD's behavior on the Ford Pinto article and talk pages has been disruptive. I'm not sure if boomerang would apply to that or not. However, I think that trying to ping Scoobydunk DOES count as canvasing and would be a boomerang. Why would HughD add a ping to Scoobydunk [9] today (Mar 15th) vs 4 days ago? Scoobydunk has no involvement with the Pinto page. The only reason to notify him of this discussion is the hopes that he can sway the group opinion. That is canvasing. Springee (talk) 12:06, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Disruptive Editing by SchroCat and Tim riley

This report relates to user editors SchroCat and Tim riley. It refers to the wiki article John Gielgud. This article seems to have been created by or significantly fleshed out by two editors, SchroCat and Tim riley.

On the 2nd March, I corrected a minor grammatical and stylistic solecism in the text. The change I made is this: the original text read:

"After Hillside, Lewis had won a scholarship to Eton, and Val had done likewise to Rugby, but John, lacking their academic achievement, did not follow them.[10]"

This sentence has three subordinate clauses in one and a quarter lines; contains a category error (i.e. the use of 'academic achievement' when 'academic prowess' or 'academic talent' is clearly meant); and what grammarians call a 'denied conclusion' (i.e. it says 'John... did not follow them' thus implying the question 'Follow them where?' To Rugby? Or to Eton? Or to any public school?).

I changed the sentence to:

"After Hillside, Lewis had won a scholarship to Eton, as Val had done likewise to Rugby, but John, lacking their academic achievement, did not follow them."

By the 6th of March, the change was reverted by Tim riley. I reverted it again (the 3rd edit), and then completely rewrote the lineSchroCat - this was then reverted by SchroCat (which I believe breaks the WP:3RR convention. I opened up a topic in the talk page providing grammatical and stylistic reasons for my changes and asking them not to revert the edit. I did, I admit, ask them not to revert correct changes simply out of loyalty to their own edits.

On the talk page, I was abused by both SchroCat and Tim riley - with SchroCat suggesting, amongst other things, that I was a non-native English speaker who should defer to his own own native English-speaking status. A rude message was posted on my Talk page which I have since deleted.

Today - 12th March - six days after the last edit, I restored the corrected sentence. Within six minutes, it was reverted by SchroCat.

I am therefore making a report here of disruptive editing; I ask that my edit be reviewed; I also request that the page be protected.

The edit itself is the correction of a tiny piece of grammar. However, the unfriendly, discourteous and factually (or at least grammatically) incorrect approach by these two editors is exactly the kind of hostile behaviour that discourages good Wikipedia editors from participating.

Note: I should also say, I am a relatively inexperienced Wikipedia editor - if I have made any incorrect steps in trying to use the Disruptive Editing Report protocols, please inform me and I will correct them. Hubertgrove (talk) 16:23, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

• Hubertgrove, I'm sorry you were having a bad experience--but you come with guns blazing on that talk page, and if you're dealing with an FA, that's rarely a good idea. I left a note or two on that talk page; I do not (yet) see any need for administrative involvement, though I will be happy to block for anything; now that I went up in the ranks, my block payments have doubled. Drmies (talk) 16:33, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Thanks for your reply, Drmies (talk - which I do take to heart. Perhaps I was not sufficiently gentle in my tone; however I was not abusive and my changes were in fact necessary and correct. However, my complaint I think is still valid. I'm being double-teamed by two editors who are engaged in disruptive reversions of a correct edit. One of whom makes racist allusions. I really don't think this should be dismissed even with the friendly comment: 'Oh, you should have been nicer to them after they reverted you for the third time'. Is there nothing that can be done? Hubertgrove (talk) 16:39, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
    • There is something that can be done, sure, but you may not like it. First, you have to understand this is ANI, where we don't really deal with content but with behavior. Second, what could be done is I could, in much more stern language, point out to you that "you sound like British English is not your first language" or words to that effect is not a racist comment, and that bringing supposed racism into this muddies the water and makes you, in fact, guilty of the kind of thing that WP:NPA warns us about.

      So, your content edit may be valid, but the things you said in relation to it, I'm sorry--they are not. But I'm waiting for SchroCat or Tim riley to come by here to explain, in cool and calm words, how the milk of human kindness is to be distributed. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 16:43, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

• Again, thank you for your comment, Drmies. [I am going to pass on your opinion'"you sound like British English is not your first language" or words to that effect is not a racist comment,' though I do personally hope you may return to it. I believe other editors, perhaps from the UK and the Commonwealth too, and perhaps younger, might come to another conclusion. I am also very concerned that you think raising an issue of racism is itself a form of personal abusive; moreso, it seems than the actual real abuse on the talk page].

To the actual issue: You seem to view my complaint from my opening paragraph which while using 'stern language' was still not rude nor abusive, It was, however met with rude and abusive language. I cannot understand how you can let that pass.

With respect, you seem to have missed - or possibly deferred from commenting on - that I rewrote the offending sentence, to which you yourself objected, so that it avoided stylistic and grammatical solecism. It is this sentence which has been reverted without explanation.

I hope you understand that I am really not trying to be argumentative. I am just defending a correct edit and pointing out hostile editor behaviour. Hubertgrove (talk) 16:57, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Hubert, I think you might be missing the crux of what Drmies is trying to tell you here. Let me preface my own comments with some context: I am quite at-home with British English, but also the dialects of the other anglophone countries I have lived in, all the more so for the fact that I have a degree in comparative linguistics. And I had the exact same reaction to that talk page comment as did Drmies (and apparently Schrocat and Tim riley). This is not a matter of syntactic variation between American and British English, I can assure you. That said, I actually fully agree with you that the phrasing of that statement was/is extremely unwieldy, even borderline garbled, and could use improvement. The problem is not your editorial approach to the content, it's your approach to your fellow contributors and generating consensus amongst them. Maybe you are right, maybe Schorcat and Tim riley are too attached to this content and maintaining it in exactly its current form (or for whatever reason they just don't see the grammatical issue that you do here). But assuming these factors as a given in your very first talk page comment is just a stupendously ill-conceived plan of action for resolving the matter amicably, and indeed borders on a blatant violation of one of Wikipedia crucial behavioural guidelines, WP:Assume good faith.

Drmies is absolutely on-target with their assessment that you went "guns blazing" on this issue, with the predictable result that you dramatically undermined the ability of the editors you needed to work with to view your perspectives in the best possible light. Even if you felt from the edit summary exchanges that you had reason to expect resistance to your editorial stance, the best thing to do in that instance is still to calmly present your argument (based on content and policy) without reference to what you think are the motivations of the editors involved. If they disagree, respond likewise to counter-arguments and if it looks like the issue is becoming intractable, and you think your version of the content is worth contesting over, host a WP:Request for comment or seek WP:Dispute resolution. Only after unambiguous and persistent evidence of a disruptive mindset is it appropriate to start making implication of WP:OWN mentalities or other behavioural accusations. Starting out with that is just begging for raised barriers and a magnificent waste of everyone's time as you struggle to overcome the combative mindsets when they are established at the very beginning of discussion. In this context, I don't think their behaviour was in any way more "rude and abusive" than was yours.

My best advice is that you go back to the talk page, admit you got off on the wrong foot and ask them why they are so married to original wording of the statement. If you feel they are stone-walling without a good policy reason, RfC the issue. If you are correct on the content matter, and garner the necessary consensus to support your view, they will have to accept it. But they definetly don't have to accept (or tolerate) speculative assumptions about their motivations for their editorial decisions, per WP:NPA. Best of luck. Snow ^{let's rap} 23:17, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Snow Rise. Hubertgrove, pointing out that "English is not your first language" is not racist. Doing so is silly. The comment can be factual, it can be snarky, it can be full of admiration, it can be lots of things, but it really can't be racist, and you can pass on that comment as much as you like but that only makes the observer question your judgment. As it happens, English is not my first language, and I don't understand where this misdirected anger comes from.

Now, it would be very nice if some other admin, preferably someone more competent in English than I/me/myself, would see if this shouldn't be closed. I think Snow Rise said all that needed to be said--wait, that makes this comment kind of redunda — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drmies (talk • contribs) 00:24, 13 March 1026 (UTC)

Drmies sadly passed away in the midst of this comment, but not before managing to hit the Enter key. clpo13_(talk) 00:27, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Oh thank goodness, it looks like Drmies didn't die afterall; they were simply sent 990 years, 7 months, 28 days, and 13 hours into the past (at least according to sinebot). What a relief! Snow ^{let's rap} 03:27, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Is Drmies trying to put in place preparations to stop the Norman invasion of England? Which won't happen for another 40 years....Blackmane (talk) 07:38, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Ha, ha! Blackmane used a sentence fragment! Blackmane used a sentence fragment! EEng 13:52, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

And that's all you're getting from me today! Blackmane (talk) 10:47, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

I realized I was being redundant and tried to get off that train before it passed the station again. Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated; my demise is of course factual--in fact, it's almost an anagram. Drmies (talk) 14:56, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

And indeed, one anagram of Drmies is Die, Mrs.! EEng 19:46, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Disruptive editing to the F1 project

In October last year a report was made of an IP editor persistently disrupting the F1 project here. A block was issued for a week by user:Diannaa and two further blocks were subsequently issued by the same admin. The IP editor however has continued in much the same vein and several members of the F1 project have spent considerable amounts of time, trying to make something of his sub-standard submissions. There have been seven six recent drafts which have been found to be copy-vios two of which have been WP:TE re-submitted several times without fixing issues noted on review and also removing citation tags. There is a tremendous history of disruptive editing by this editor whose IP address changes sometimes more than once a day. He's now up to more than 100 different IPs in the ranges 92.21.240.0/20 and 88.106.224.0/20. Just some of the history of his edits can be seen at User talk:Bretonbanquet who has been one of the editors involved in 'tidying up'. We have tried several times to engage and leave helpful advice on talk-pages but it is not certain which of them he might have seen and he has been known to just blank the page. Here is a diff of him removing a talk page post by another editor and here is one example of an inappropriate edit summary, although he rarely leaves summaries. The F1 project would be grateful for any assistance you can give as we have run out of patience with this editor who has been given plenty of time and more than enough leeway to edit in a conventional manner. I apologise for the long-winded submission. Please let me know if you need any further info. Thanks. Eagleash (talk) 13:34, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

The latest series of posts on the subject at the F1 project is here. Eagleash (talk) 19:30, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Earlier threads on the subject here and here. Eagleash (talk) 12:02, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I second all of the above, and I can say I've rarely come across an editor who takes such little notice of notability guidelines, or indeed, any guidelines. He almost never engages with other editors, and when he does it's usually uncivil; he never uses talk pages or heeds advice, and creates a huge amount of work for others. He has created large numbers of articles and templates, all of which were either copy-violations, unreadable or not notable (or a combination of the three), and all of which required rewriting, merging or deleting by other editors. To make it worse, it's hard to track the guy's activity as he is forever switching IPs; so you can't talk to him or pin him down long enough to get him to understand how things work.

This has been going on for a few months now, and some of us seem to spend all our time cleaning up after this guy, when we would rather be doing something more constructive. Any ideas will be gratefully received. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:26, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

• I'm an AfC reviewer, and another issue that was brought to my attention regarding this editor was possibly gaming the system. Anonymous contributors are not allowed to create articles directly into mainspace—that's why WP:AFC was started. However, this user has tried to circumvent the standard AFC article review process by first requesting the creation of a redirect at Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Redirects, then turning the redirect into a non-notable article once it is created—effectively creating an article in mainspace. An example is with March 87P. At 20:12, 1 February 2016, the user submitted this request to WP:AFC/R, asking for a redirect from March 87P to March 87B. The issue is, at that time, March 87B was a redirect. Three minutes later, at 20:15, the same editor converts the March 87B redirect into an article, which was found to be non-notable. Then, a few weeks later, the redirect request was accepted, creating March 87P as a redirect, which an IP in the same range converted to an article about the same subject. Mz7 (talk) 22:31, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

In relation to the above post, the same editor has recently had deleted, a draft for Wolf Williams, as it was both non-notable and also a copy vio. A re-direct already exists for Wolf Williams to the Williams F1 page. A re-direct has now been requested for "Wolf Williams Racing" , which could mean further attempt to create a Wolf Williams page. Also in relation to the March 87P page, it had to be protected after the IP edit-warred over restoring the re-direct. Eagleash (talk) 22:48, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Meanwhile, the IP keeps going on daily. It would be really appreciated if an administrator had a look into it our gave us some advice.Tvx1 22:52, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Anyone going to take a look? Tvx1 17:39, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Another troll IP

User:86.187.161.44 Eik Corell (talk) 19:18, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Blocked. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 19:28, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

New one: User:86.187.160.92. Hope that edit filter comes up soon. Eik Corell (talk) 19:43, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

That's blocked too. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 19:50, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Round 3! User:86.187.166.68 Eik Corell (talk) 19:53, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

• I had a bit of fun whacking those IPs, five in all, but, enough, I've semi-protected the page for a couple of days. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:08, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

As a non-involved non-admin I saw this discussion and the speed with which the user was blocked without discussion or diffs puzzled me. Looking just at the user's/Ip's edit history there was no context for understanding why this user was blocked. Eventually I saw the article's edit history and the discussion at Talk:Metin2#The p Server Scene (pServers) and it all made sense but even there the behavior is not "trolling", it is just a way over the top case of tendentious editing and apparent multi-IP socking/block evasion. My point is nobody should have to go look this stuff up. An ANI post is supposed to contain the necessary information/diffs/links for others to review. The link to the talk page should have been there at the least and frankly there probably should have been a single post being re-used for the ongoing problem instead of starting a new one cold. @Eik Corell:, Obviously Malcolmxl5 was previously involved and intrinsically understood the problem, but imagine if he was offline for some unforeseen reason (like a power outage) and someone else had to act on the matter. Shortcuts at ANI are not helpful if it means Admins have to go do their own research to find the history of the problem. Koala Tea Of Mercy (KTOM's Articulations & Invigilations) 20:22, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Ah yes, there are two discussions further up the page and others in the history about this IP who is harassing Eik: this one will be helpful. IP-hopping troll, continued. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:29, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

I see that. I tend to be a bit of a bulldog and not let stuff go easily so I dug in and found the following:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive911#Returning_troll
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive916#Latest_IP_of_a_troll
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive916#IP-hopping_troll
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Latest_IP.27s_of_a_troll — Preceding unsigned comment added by Koala Tea Of Mercy (talk • contribs) 21:08, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Another_troll_IP (this post)

Based on all of this is seems it is indeed trolling after all. Seems to me Eik Corell should revisit the ISP and try again, explaining to them that WP does not make its raw server logs available for reasons of user privacy but that the edit time stamps should provide sufficient information to identify the user involved. It has been six years and maybe they have a more enlightened view of WP these days. Koala Tea Of Mercy (KTOM's Articulations & Invigilations) 20:46, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

• It would probably be useful to put together all the reports of this 86.187 IP. I've pulled together a list at User:Malcolmxl5/86.187. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 22:16, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

@Eik Corell, Malcolmxl5, and Koala Tea Of Mercy: If this doesn't qualify for an LTA case, I don't know what does. I'm familiar with the problem having blocked the guy before, but a comprehensive report at LTA would make it much easier for us at AIV to block on sight. Katie^talk 17:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that would be helpful, if that can be done. Have blocked another two three IPs today. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 22:01, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Yikes it feels like this guy is playing his own version of Whack-a-mole, only he's the mole and seems to like it that way! Koala Tea Of Mercy (KTOM's Articulations & Invigilations) 09:22, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

@Eik Corell: any chance you could find at any examples of this problem from 6 years ago? That would be excellent to add to the LTA case too. Koala Tea Of Mercy (KTOM's Articulations & Invigilations) 09:27, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Yep, there's a whole range of IP's in this article's edit history, with edit wars on many video game articles. Note that in some of these early edits, the IP's start with "81." instead of the typical "86." Eik Corell (talk) 15:18, 16 March 2016 (UTC).

Sending a fresh one over to AIV (82.232.81.119). Going to ask for page protection too. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 21:56, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Possible segregation of article content based on race

I am concerned that User:Rjensen has used a race based approach to editing the Reconstruction Era article. Please see African-American Civil Rights Movement (1865–95)#Merge discussion in progress for complete discussion.

He has stated that "much of the Reconstruction article is about how southern whites should be treated" and "much of the reconstruction literature does not deal with blacks Primarily, but deals Primarily with the treatment of whites". I have asked him to cite sources supporting this claim and he has not complied.

He is currently adding content to an article I proposed to merge into the Reconstruction article. The content he is adding appears informative and accurate. The article looked like this before he began adding content today. However, my main concern is that he will edit the Reconstruction article based on the above stated assertions which are categorically false. I am seeking an administrator to step-in and have this user present reliable sources that support his claim. Otherwise, he needs to cease and merge content to the Reconstruction article to avoid the appearance of segregating content based on his unsubstantiated claims.

I have no problem with moving relevant content from the proposed article African-American Civil Rights Movement (1865–95) to Reconstruction Era then create new WP:Hatnotes for each lengthy section to comply with WP:COMMONNAME and WP:Content forking. However, any attempt to limit content on Reconstruction Era article based on race will be vigorously challenged. Mitchumch (talk) 06:22, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Nonsense. our Reconstruction article is very long and is not a good fit for a merger. The African-American Civil Rights Movement (1865–95) material will get lost in it. They should not be merged. In my opinion The African-American Civil Rights Movement (1865–95) is an important topic that deserves its own article. I did not start the article (it originated in 2009) and only started work on it yesterday. He APPROVES all my edits to it (The content he is adding appears informative and accurate). He then plays his attack card stating: my main concern is that he will edit the Reconstruction article -- well this is not the place to complain about future edits that have not been written but which he might disagree with. I have no plans right now for any major addition to Reconstruction Era, but new RS appear all the time and I scan them for usable materials. Mitchumch hyas changed his tune--yesterday hedemanded a merger because of an illegal fork, which is false. There is no fork and the articles have no POV battles. Rjensen (talk) 07:01, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

This seems like a totally frivolous complaint. Mitchumch has proposed the elimination of a half dozen articles dealing specifically with African American issues. All articles are properly sourced and of significant size. That, to me, seems to suggest that maybe the problem does not lie with other editors. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 18:21, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@North Shoreman: You never addressed the issue nor answered my question. Please leave this matter to someone else willing to do the work. Mitchumch (talk) 21:16, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

I've addressed all the issues you've raised. I can't help noticing that nobody has agreed with your proposals to delete these articles and at least five people disagree with the proposals. You need to quit wasting people's time. The issue raised here is frivolous and should be withdrawn. Your proposals to delete articles through mergers should be withdrawn since, apparently, you have given up on those proposals. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 21:38, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@North Shoreman:First let me apologize for the tone of my last response to you. I could have stated it much better without sounding like a jerk. I am sorry.

What I am trying to say is you have confused my merger proposal for the issue that was posted on this noticeboard. The reason I posted on this noticeboard is separate from the merger issue.

The merger proposal has been posted less than two days. I am currently discussing the merger proposal issues with participants. The merger proposal is not a small proposal. The articles in question have significant content. I understand the participants are nervous about the merger. They don't see or understand the basis for my proposal. Those participants need time to ask me questions and raise issues that they think require my response.

I appreciate your willingness to respond to my noticeboard post. But, you don't seem to understand the reason I posted on this noticeboard. That is why I stated to please leave this matter to others. I still appreciate the time and effort you have placed into responding to this post. Thank you. Mitchumch (talk) 04:28, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Another IP with legal threats re Tube Challenge

This edit to London Underground appears to be yet another incarnation of the various IPs offering legal threats regarding Tube Challenge. See 81.101.104.252 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) for one blocked example. --David Biddulph (talk) 13:03, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

• Ah yes. And so ungrammatical. Drmies (talk) 14:53, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

I blocked an NHS IP for NLT on my talk page several weeks ago, and I think this is the same person. Similar 'going to personally sue' me and JBW and whoever else. I'd make the block longer than 31 hours but I'm not going to override Drmies. Katie^talk 14:56, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

The pages are now semiprotected (not by me). Guy (Help!) 15:11, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Maybe it's time to contact system administrators at the NHS. It cannot possibly be part if this person's job description to add crap to Wikipedia while at work. They may be able to trace "andi james" down. But then I guess he'll sue them too. HandsomeFella (talk) 15:16, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

The NHS is one of the largest employers in the world. As well as all the employees many NHS services provide public wifi for members of the public to use. (And the NHS deals with over a million patients every 36 hours, which doesn't include carers or relatives). The NHS is not a monolithic organisation - there are CCGs, Hospital Trusts, Ambulance Trusts, Mental Health Trusts, GP surgeries, etc. Telling the NHS is unlikely to achieve anything. DanBCDanBC (talk) 18:46, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

• Maybe. Katie, you are always welcome to override me; I did not see much point in blocking that IP address any longer, given that I saw no other similar edits in the last 500 from that IP address. That 81 IP is a different kettle of fish--but HandsomeFella, I don't think the NHS is going to care much for that one edit from the 194 IP. Drmies (talk) 17:36, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't have much perspective to share on how the tools should be used here, but I'm inclined to agree on both observations. The thing about IPs making legal threats is that they are not trolls in the typical sense. That is, their aim isn't disruption in and of itself; they have actually convinced themselves that they can leverage these threats to get their way. The best way to deal with that mentality is to simply to apply the minimal effect block and otherwise WP:DENY them attention until they realize their threats gain them no traction. Sometimes they just go away afterwards, sometimes they switch to tactics that require a greater deal of containment, and maybe once in a blue moon they learn to contribute in a less disruptive fashion. But trying to follow them off-project, aside from being completely infeasible in a majority of cases (this one in particular) only plays into their delusions of influence. Snow ^{let's rap} 01:02, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

(non admin observation) the 194 IP address is part of a several-node corporate internet gateway for the NHS, so blocking the IP alone is largely pointless, and potentially has some collateral damage. Gricehead (talk) 11:57, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Semiprotection is the least disruptive way of handling this IMO. It's gone on for way too long, but at a slow burn - and rangeblocks to stop a single not-massively-active vandal are probably not going to fly. Guy (Help!) 16:56, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• Hopefully, soon some magazine will do a piece about the idiots who think anyone cares about their stupid Tube Challenge, so that the Tube Challenge article can mention the idiocy of said idiots. EEng 20:44, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Or we just delete those silly articles. Drmies (talk) 01:11, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
    • (Non-admin observation) The best idea yet. Haploidavey (talk) 01:34, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Disruptive editing by User:Clairec78

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

A special-purpose account, User:Clairec78, has been trying vigorously (not to say obsessively) for the past two months to create or maintain an article about Mircea Itul, aka Mircua Itu, a Romanian historian. The article has been speedy-deleted once, AfD-deleted once, and draft-declined at AfC three times. The user's persistence and their wall-of-text arguments, at the AfD and at various talk pages, have consumed many hours of Wikipedian time. Here's a summary of the article history:

• January 10, 2016: article created by Clairec78
• January 11, 2016: speedy deleted per A7
• January 16, 2016: article recreated by Clairec78
• January 19, 2016: nominated for AfD, after Clairec78 removed a PROD tag.
• January 27, 2016: deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mircea Itul (which you really have to read to get a sense of this situation)
• January 29, 2016: userfied to Clairec78 at their request
• February 6, 2016: draft moved to Draft:Mircea Itu (more common name)
• February 9: AfC submission declined on grounds of non-notability.
• February 28: AfC submission declined on grounds of non-notability.
• March 12: Clairec78 posted messages on more than 50 33 (I stand corrected) user talk pages, asking people to "please rescue the article on Mircea Itu". I warned them to stop spamming people.
• March 13: AfC submission declined on grounds of non-notability.
• March 14: Clairec78 submitted it to AfC for a fourth time, without making any changes in the article, just complaining on the talk page about how the third review was done.[10]

IMO this behavior is disruptive, and it is high time for this user to be told to accept the community's verdict and abandon their quest for an article on this subject. I think a block would be unnecessarily harsh; maybe a topic ban? --MelanieN (talk) 00:45, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Update: March 15: Fourth AfC submission declined on grounds of non-notability. --MelanieN (talk) 14:01, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support a topic-ban, broadly construed, knowing that unless she finds other areas of interest to edit, that would have the same effect as a ban. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:55, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support a topic ban of the subject. Would also support and indef block until such time as they acknowledge their disruption and make it clear that they will cease it.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 01:07, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• Salt the article. A topic ban doesn't really solve the fundamental problem which is the continued creation and recreation of the article. Preventing creation of the article in the first place may encourage clairec78 to go and look elsewhere to learn what notability is all about. Blackmane (talk) 01:14, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• extra comment: I would not be surprised if we came to find out that she has a COI with respect to this personage. Blackmane (talk) 01:16, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support a topic ban, and make it clear that continuing to recreate the article after deletion will lead to consequences. — Omni Flames (talk contribs) 05:04, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• Comment Please be sure this discussion stays open for at least 24 hours, so that the community can chime in and the user can have a chance to respond. --MelanieN (talk) 06:51, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

In regards to my article on Mircea Itu: Thank you user:MelanieN. I take note of your clear warning strike. Those were neither over 50, but 33 and nor spams, but unsuccessful efforts from my side to get in touch with true Wikipedian professionals. As far as anyone can see, there is no communication allowed, except for upwards towards downwards, which is a one way interaction, not a real communication. Please take into consideration that I know the Wikipedia rules that refer to advertising through spamming, and this is not my case. Please also revise previous talk pages on Mircea Itul and Mircea Itu in regards to bias, war edit and vandalism. Please also show me in Wikipedia rules where is it stated that users are not allowed to contact other users on their talk pages in a civilised way, which I did, asking nothing else but support from senior Wikipedia editors professionals? Please also revise previous talk pages on Mircea Itul and Mircea Itu in regards to bias, war edit and vandalism. Clairec78 (talk) 07:14, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Reviewing the above "senior Wikipedia editors professionals" have reviewed it. They have found this individual to not be notable. The horse has been beat to death so it's time to drop the stick.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 07:44, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

See WP:CANVASS for the policy against canvassing for support. It is one thing to leave a neutral message such as "Please see this AFD and if you are so inclined, please leave a comment". Asking them to "rescue the article" and making your views known is not a neutral message. There are no "senior Wikipedia editors professionals". There are merely those who have been around longer and are more familiar with the expectations here. We are all editors. At this point, the discussion is no longer about whether the subject is notable or not per the notability guidelines but your singleminded drive to have this article in article space. It is becoming disruptive. Blackmane (talk) 10:07, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, -Serialjoepsycho-. Please give professional reasons of your decision. Please also share professional comments on bias, patronizing, communication, war edits and vandalism on talk pages about the article on Mircea Itul (his real name) and Mircea Itu (his pen name), who is neither 'Mircua Itu', nor 'a Romanian historian', but a Romanian historian of religions. Thank you. Clairec78 (talk) 09:13, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Why would I put excessive conversation into things that does not actually matter? Because you desire it? I'm not really seeing any bias. What, these MULTIPLE editors are bias because they don't see the subject as notable like you do? Patronizing? It seems reasonable after the article has been speedy-deleted once, AfD-deleted once, and draft-declined at AfC three times that they would be patronizing. Your excessive walls of text also make that reasonable. What I am seeing here seems to be WP:IDHT. I will say what has already been clearly stated, you have failed to show that your subject meets Wikipedia notability criteria. -Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 09:42, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, -Serialjoepsycho-. Please give the professional reasons for your decision, so that I can understand it. Please also give reasons in this particular subject's fields of study why this academic is considered not notable. Please also share professional comments on bias, patronising, lack of real communication, war edits and vandalism on talk pages of the article on Mircea Itul (his real name) and Mircea Itu (his pen name), who is neither 'Mircua Itu', nor 'a Romanian historian', but a Romanian historian of religions and Indologist. The article received no support, but only two keep votes, that were dismissed in an non-respectful manner to these editors and undemocratic manner to a voting process, so that to reach a consensus. I gave a lot of information in the talk pages about the subject to prove his notability, but information was systematically ignored by some assessors who started the discussion creating a bias. I continuously improved the page and it was systematically rejected, without being given any specific reasons. I was preparing to make other contributions. Please put yourself in my position of a new user who only received threats, lies and no support. I put a lot of effort into this article, not for Mircea Itul (Mircea Itu), but for preserving the truth in regards to an academic from Romania who published mainly in Romanian, so his contributions are not easy to be accessed by everyone, but through Wikipedia. Would you feel comfortable to edit other subjects for the moment? Would you not need some time to reflect under the circumstances whether a huge effort to edit is worthy or not? Who is the horse? Who owns the stick? Who has beaten this imaginary horse? Why? Thank you. I wish you all the best! Thank you Blackmane. Please explain the first line of what User:Biruitorul wrote on the talk page about Mircea Itul which is not neutral and created a bias, and then the line that he wrote that there are no sources either in Romanian and in English about this academic, which is a lie. I won't disturb you again. Sorry for taking your precious time. All the best. Clairec78 (talk) 10:19, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support a topic ban. A fairly blatant case of WP:IDNHT in the diff provided by MelanieN above, where the user claims that 1) there was no rationale given for rejecting the AfC draft, and that 2) the rationale did not "sound correctly [sic]". (As an aside, the present progressive is certainly used in idiomatic English.) Perhaps the user might benefit from having a mentor to work with in order to gain a greater understanding of how Wikipedia's processes work, but if their only interest is in creating an article about a non-eligible subject, that would probably not work either. --bonadea contributions talk 10:25, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support / salt Support TBAN for the editor, and recommend, as suggested above, salting the article to prevent recreation in the future (until such time as the subject becomes notable.) At this point, I have to agree that she literally doesn't seem to be listening to the community, and indeed doesn't seem to understand what she is being told. _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 10:46, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• Comment- Judging from the responses of Clairec78, I feel that it may be in the interest of the community on indef block them based on WP:CIR. I question their ability to conversationally use English and am not sure this is a simple case of WP:IDHT. Much time has been put into this and it's failed to bear any fruit.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 10:56, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I understand your points of view. I won't disturb you all again. I am sorry for taking your time. All the best to you all. Clairec78 (talk) 11:03, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Pinging Biruitorul, for the record. Drmies (talk) 17:00, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• I have also rolled back all those pleas for help, many of which to long-retired editors, and none of them picked with diligence, it seems. Drmies (talk) 17:04, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support topic ban, and thank you, Drmies. For the record, I did try and craft a decent article on this subject, but the user in question went ahead and imposed the chaotic version now in the draft. I accept that single-purpose accounts will exist, but accounts that are both single-purpose and single-minded are a real problem, so the topic ban seems the best course. - Biruitorul ^Talk 17:13, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• Three days ago, Clairec78 left this message on my talk page.  I presume she or he left this very cordial and appropriate message because she or he noticed I am an inclusionist.  In looking at her or his edits that day, I see that the three people she or he messaged after me (AndySimpson, Antanaklasis, Anthrophilos) all likewise list themselves as inclusionists.  I have no desire to waste my time checking to see if each and every person she or he messaged that day is likewise an inclusionist, but suffice to it say, Drmies is wrong when she or he claims that "none" of the editors messaged by Clairec78 were "picked with diligence"; I clearly was.

  Today, Drmies edited my talk page to remove Clairec78's message without my consent.  I have since reverted Drmies's edit.

  Sincerely yours,
  allixpeeke (talk) 18:30, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

  • Picking "inclusionists" is not diligence--in fact, it's canvassing. Drmies (talk) 18:34, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• Note on the contribution claimed by Biruitorul. He cut the draft created by me to a no citing form, using only one bibliographic source with no citations to prove notability. He did not contribute to the article at all. On the contrary. All reviewers after him adviced to add citations. Thank you. Clairec78 (talk) 19:57, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• I have WP:SALTed the article titles, I suggest we also nuke the doomed draft. If Clairec78 refuses to drop the stick then a topic ban is in order. Claire, you've been pointed at numerous essays highlighting the line between enthusiastic advocacy and disruption. You've crossed it. Guy (Help!) 20:18, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• I am a woman. Please stop this he/she charade. Clairec78 (talk) 20:32, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support as an uninvolved editor. The canvassing of 50+ editors and repeated recreations of the article are seriously disruptive. GAB^Hello! 20:43, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• The number is 33, not 50+. Sorry to mention, but my desperate search for a support and for an academic or specialist in the subject's fields of study to advice and to assess the subject's notability is not canvassing. Thank you. Clairec78 (talk) 20:54, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support topic ban. Crazy canvassing, and a topic ban would give them an opportunity to edit other articles, or just confirm that they're not here to contribute other than their single-purpose article. Joseph2302 (talk) 21:11, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support topic ban, with appreciation shown to Guy for having taken the initiative with regard to the first order of business of salting the titles. The various violations of policy and other disruptive behaviours of Clairec78 could, not withstanding their volume and bellicosity, be considered growing pains for a new editor, except for the fact that the WP:IDHT mentality and refusal to WP:DROPTHESTICK suggest very little hope that this single-purpose editor can be brought around to internalizing the project's demands with regard to content neutrality. I think if we are honest with ourselves, we can see this is all likely to end with either an indef for user when they fail to adhere to the conditions of the TBAN, or their voluntarily leaving the project because they have no other motivation in being here. But that shouldn't stop us from affording them the opportunity of the third choice (finding a non-personal topic area to contribute in), unlikely as it is that they will be interested. What we can't do is continue to toss escalating editor work-hours into attempting to restrain and educate an SPA who won't listen. Snow ^{let's rap} 04:16, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
• Comment If the result is a WP:Topic ban, somebody is going to have to explain to the editor what that means. I don't think she really understands what we are talking about here. --MelanieN (talk) 04:36, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User: 67.81.5.244 and his edits on pages Ukrainians and Belarussians

User: 67.81.5.244, has been making a habit of introducing his personal opinions to sourced text to articles about Slavic ethnicities. Specially about the genetical relations between Poles and Belarussians. He is habitually adding text that is contrary to the sources given. He had done so here, here, here, here, here, and specially mind this edit and its edit comment, here and frankly I could go onGerard von Hebel (talk) 03:49, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm looking at articles talk pages and this users talk page but failing to see where you attempted to discuss the issues you find problematic with this user. Can't really much reason to take action there, Though there is a slow motion edit war going on which is a good reason to take action.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 07:58, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

-Serialjoepsycho-, I've tried to explain in the edit summaries that it's problematic when people start to add things to sourced text, that are not in the sources given or is even contradicted by the sources given. Unless of course they come with additional sources. Just saying the source is wrong won't do. I see it happen a lot on articles on ethnicities. Specially with statistics. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 17:05, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I've added some text to the effect to the talk pages of the two articles. Frankly I'm also a bit concerned about al this haplogroup stuff anyway. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 17:15, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Self-promoting user with three accounts

DJ SG Gayashan appears to have two other accounts: Sajithgayashan and SG Gayashan. While this is acknowledged at User:DJ SG Gayashan and User:Sajithgayashan, it is not clear what the purpose of having these multiple accounts is. Those two user pages are also fake articles, which suggests that the user is trying to use Wikipedia for self-promotion. I'm not sure what the appropriate course of action is here - it's not sockpuppetry, but is nonetheless problematic. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

What fake articles?-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 08:41, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

That's not breaching anything—he's clearly not trying to imitate an encyclopedic article, and consensus has always been that we allow "about myself" and reasonable external links on userpages. Since there's no attempt to deceive, this isn't breaching the multiple accounts policy either. Nothing to see here. ‑ Iridescent 08:56, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Do you not think that the infoboxes and discographies make the user pages look like articles? Cordless Larry (talk) 09:02, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Note that Graeme Bartlett previously blanked User:Sajithgayashan as a fake article. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:09, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I thought that it was not so bad that speedy delete U5 was required. The user was also editing other pages too. But the lower part of the page was unsuitable for a user page. That's why I blanked it. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:44, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

JzG has deleted the two user pages. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:12, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

The User:Sajithgayashan incarnation also caused problems by taking an unattributed (copyright violating) copy of Draft:Alex Gilbert (which had twice been declined at AFC review) and copying it directly into article space as Alex Gilbert (TV Presenter). I pointed out the problem to him but he contested the prod and then tried to delete the AFD tag after I'd raised an AFD to replace the prod. The copyright-violating article was speedied after I raised an AFD, so hopefully the draft can be allowed to be reviewed again when the original author has done further work on it. We obviously need to keep a careful eye on User:Sajithgayashan and his other accounts. --David Biddulph (talk) 10:56, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

User:Binksternet engaging in Harassment

Binksternet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The user Binksternet repeatedly reverts almost all my edits in the article Eurodance and my efforts to improve the article justifying himself my edits as original research and without first using the talk page and follow the rules of WP:DR to resolve our disputes. Instead he behaves aggressively by sending me non civility warnings on my talk page. I have already received two of them from him and one form user Mlpearc (perhaps a friend of him) who never responded to my reaction message. I have a strong reason to believe this is personal, I recently noticed he does the same in other articles as well, removing my edits without any obvious reason, for example: [11] Clicklander (talk) 08:48, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm not harassing Clicklander. What's happening is Clicklander continues to put unreferenced or poorly referenced text into the Eurodance article. Clicklander does not like having this unsupported work questioned or deleted. On the article talk page, Clicklander said there were "many" reliable sources that could be cited, but none of these have been named.[12] Instead Clicklander named www.eurokdj.com which was judged unreliable at RSN since it is a website published by Karine Sanche who is a web designer in France, not a music critic, musicologist or music journalist. If Clicklander was using music textbooks and trade magazines, and if these sources actually talked about Eurodance, then I would not have such a big problem with the edits. Binksternet (talk) 09:33, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

My report concerns your behaviour only. Whether a work in wikipedia should be questioned and deleted or not, is something should be discussed in specific talk pages and has nothing to do with this section. Do not try to confuse the administrators. Clicklander (talk) 09:45, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Comment (Non-administrator comment) I'm afraid that is not necessarilly true. An editor- particular relatively recently joined- should be aware that lodging a report at an administrative noticeboard oftens leads to an examination as to that editor's own behaviour and edit history. That, of course, can all of a sudden have consequences, not to say the least for the complainant. Just sayin'. _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 16:41, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

They're not so easily confused. Lots of times on Wikipedia the frustration felt by a new editor is because the work isn't so very well supported by cites. Binksternet (talk) 09:48, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Kind of feel like there's nothing to see here since I'm seeing nothing. Harassment and other forms of disruption tend to leave evidence trails and there's real evidence no real evidence here.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 09:52, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Serialjoepsycho, I take it you mean, "and there's no real evidence here"? EEng 16:33, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Apologies, yes and thank you.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 19:39, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

The complaint was only accompanied by one specific diff, and OP claims it was a removal without any obvious reason. However, there is a clear, and sufficient reason in the edit summary. Looks like nothing to see here, unless OP can identify some specific items of concern.--S Philbrick(Talk) 17:17, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I do not know why you only looked at this diff and not at the editing history of the article I mainly pointed out, but I can help you to see more (if you want to). On the 3rd March I edited Eurodance article for first time by doing some minor improvement in the existing unreferenced parts of the article. Mainly adding some more examples in the list of artists, for example: [13] [14] and reorganized some song examples in chronological order [15] plus trying to find some references in order the existing content to be better supported [16]. Binksternet reverted all my edits twice [17] [18] ignoring my messages to use the talk page first [19] [20]. At the third time he tagged my edits for lacking citations [21], NOT the unreferenced sections but just my edits! I finally moved the tags to the correct place referring to the whole part [22]. After all this I tried to communicate with him in the talk page to order to resolve our dispute by opening a new discussion regarding my edits.

On 4th, 6th and 7th March I attempted some more improvement again to the existing information like removing some unreliable sources as Binksternet suggested [23] added some additional info supported by references [24] [25] [26] and restructuring the chapters in better way [27]. Binksternet proceeded to a massive deletion of the unreferenced parts [28] ,info written by various editors over long time, without notifying first in the talk page for his intentions and let others to express opinions whether this should be done or if some parts could be better supported and kept.

After notifying in the talk page on 8th March I restored the section with the artist examples which was totally screwed up after Binksternet's edits, removed the unsourced parts and added some reference for the rest [29]. I also partially restored the classification part which for me was very important for the article and added a reference to be better supported [30]. Binksternet's reaction once again was not to use the talk page to express his objections, instead he removed once again entirely the classification section and in addition he sent me this aggressive warning for blocking my account [31]. For once again I further tried to resolve our depute in the talk page explaining what I believe should be kept and why, without further restoring this part in order not to lead to edit war and wait for more opinions from other editors.

On 14th March I added one more reference [32] and improved the House music part with some referenced info about Techno music in order the existing examples in this section to be better supported [33]. Binksternet again reverted all my edits [34] again did not use the talk page and again left me another one aggressive warning in my page [35].

And last but not least, regarding his edit in the other article [36] yes he gave a reason for this. This reason however is invalid. Eurodance was in fact his main genre as a solo singer (not as a group member), and that's not only described inside the article but also supported by the reference Nr. 30. There are many ways to improve an article if you really want to, but from all this info to just choose to revert my edit and after all that happened in the Eurodance article for me is suspicious for his real intentions.

Once again I am not judging whether he is right or not to want the poorly unreferenced parts of an article removed. For most parts perhaps he is right and I also agree with him. I am judging the way he does this, his attitude that for me he clearly does not respect the wikipedia's guidance for WP:DR and does not respect the other editors and their efforts. If you guys still think there is nothing to see here and still find his behaviour acceptable, then perhaps we have a different perception about what Civility means. Clicklander (talk) 09:18, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

• Clicklander, you need to read WP:BRD. If you make BOLD edits, particularly if they are uncited or poorly cited, it is your responsibility to gain talk-page WP:CONSENSUS for them before attempting to replace them if they are contested or reverted. Binksternet has carefully responded to all of your queries on the article's talk page. However you have failed to achieve any policy-based consensus. Binksternet is a very very experienced editor and he is abiding by policy and by WP:BRD. You, however, are not. If you want to engage in dispute resolution, see WP:DR. There is no harassment here on Binksternet's part; however there is a failure on your part to gain consensus for your changes and a failure on your part to use or provide reliable-source citations. Softlavender (talk) 09:31, 16 March 2016 (UTC); edited 09:37, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Softlavender just for your info Binksternet is wikipedia editor since 2007, I am editor since 2009. That's our difference in experience. And experienced or not this doesn't change the way someone should behave. Clicklander (talk) 09:51, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Clicklander, you are still a novice editor and have made less than 1,150 edits to Wikipedia. Binksternet has made over 172,450 edits to Wikipedia and is a master Wikipedia editor. I think it's time to withdraw this ANI filing and learn to follow Wikipedia guidelines and policies. Continuing to prolong this thread, and failing to listen to the advice you have been given, and failing to abide by the policies and guidelines you have been notified of, may result in a WP:BOOMERANG. -- Softlavender (talk) 10:00, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

• Clicklander, for all your talk of civility, it's rather striking that you don't see consensus, when it's literally right in front of you. Not a single editor has said they see any merit in your complaint - and several have responded. And yet, you persist. Not really sure what more you need; but your behavior here speaks volumes about your behavior during this dispute. At this point, a word to the wise should be sufficient: but we'll soon see. However, before proceeding, may I strongly suggest that you review WP:LISTEN. X4n6 (talk) 05:25, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

It's very interesting how some people like to investigate and comment on my behaviour, on my experience, on my knowledge and how much enjoy giving advices and warnings rather than dealing with the case. I do not have anything more to say. All facts are here and anyone can draw their own conclusions. Clicklander (talk) 07:52, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• People have drawn their own conclusions. Obviously, they just haven't drawn the conclusions you want. Or want to hear. Nor do you really seem willing to listen to or learn from the explanations for their conclusions. Especially, when they offer advice you clearly don't want to hear. But the bottom line is simple: it doesn't matter if you're a new editor or a veteran. If you post poorly sourced material, which you've already tried to defend doing, then you should expect its removal. This project isn't interested in publishing your personal opinions. It's not a blog. It doesn't publish editorials. See WP:FORUM. So either reliably source your edits, or don't publish them. You cannot publish first, then go searching for sources later. If you do, expect the result. That goes for all editors. So you must decide if you're capable of - and willing to - abide by those same rules. If not, working on this encyclopedia, may not be for you. X4n6 (talk) 11:34, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Rude vulgarian editor

Hi, can you please deal with this fellow: https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=RepRap_project&type=revision&diff=710238548&oldid=710238425

He is also edit warring. CaptainYuge (talk) 20:44, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I have notified the editor that this ANI discussion is ongoing, as should be done. RickinBaltimore (talk) 20:46, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

When dealing with this fellow I suggest we give him a barnstar, and lets give a boomerang (smelly) trout to the OP. -Roxy the dog™ woof 20:49, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

He's Vulgarian, I've been to Vulgaria, pleasant country, but go on the off season. RickinBaltimore (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I made a typo in that dif. Redacted here since I can't do it there: "remove promotional content sourced to a conference abstract. we would not accept rank bullshit like this added to an article about a drug and we don't accept it here" I'm talking with a few people in the RepRap movement on the article Talk page, as part of my efforts to wrest that article from their abuse of WP as a kind of movement webpage, promoting what they have been doing. The goals of their movement are admirable, and I don't think they have understood that they have been abusing Wikipedia, so I am not registering any complaint here. So far the work and discussions on Talk are going relatively OK.. I am not seeking any intervention, just writing this to provide context to the community. And yes, I should use more gentle language, I know. Sometimes the promotionalism gets to me. That is my bad. Jytdog (talk) 20:54, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

You delete two thirds of an article with edits like these [37] [38], then when you're reverted by another editor and invited to discuss it at Talk: your immediate reaction is to repeat the blanking, warn them for edit warring, and now talk about boomerangs here. Just who is doing the edit warring, I wonder? Andy Dingley (talk) 21:10, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Someone may wish to review this user's history. He's got a long trail of bodies and accusations of edit warring (whilst edit warring himself) and of using COI accusations as a cudgel to batter his opponents. Note the talk page for the article in question -- he's already asserting to me a "higher level" of sourcing and notability is required for inclusion in the article, which at a glance reads far and above what is used for general notability and RS standards. Who is he to assign his own personal values above the project? I appear to have fallen in the path of a strongly agenda driven combat editor. CaptainYuge (talk) 21:15, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Actually, no. It's really clear who the edit warrior is here. [39] You've been at this for months. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:18, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I've temporarily semi-protected the article. This should not be construed as an endorsement of the current version or any that might be in the history. I trust all parties involved to use the WP:BRD process. --Kinu ^t/_c 21:29, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Kinu. That was helpful. I understand you are not endorsing any version - I am just glad this might drive discussion of specific content issues. Jytdog (talk) 21:45, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Edit warrning/warring

Please cite this user: https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=RepRap_project&type=revision&diff=710248489&oldid=710245750 He keeps RVing my sourced changes with NO discussion of the merits of the edits. He is wholesale undoing over a dozen edits. CaptainYuge (talk) 21:19, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Attempts to out editors

As Andy Digley mentioned this combat editor has been warring on this article for *months* and has been abusing COI policies to attempt to coerce new editors to out themselves from anonymity. CaptainYuge (talk) 21:20, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

@Andy Dingley: did you really say that Jytdog tries to coerce new editors? Don't see that in this discussion... that from a past discussion? EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 21:57, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Months of edit warring, ongoing

He's still not stopping -- this user is unrepentant and should be blocked temporarily to curb his hostile behavior: https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=RepRap_project&type=revision&diff=710249014&oldid=710248489 CaptainYuge (talk) 21:25, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Not to mention grave threats of harm. Or not. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Now edit warring on the talk page

Now he's removing sections from the talk page. CaptainYuge (talk) 21:36, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Ongoing edit warring on talk page

Can someone please stop this guy? He's out of control. https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:RepRap_project&action=history CaptainYuge (talk) 21:42, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Actually, that removal was perfectly acceptable, however I would have preferred that Jytdog not remove it himself per your reaction to when he does anything. That removal is due to WP:TPG where it is stated to Comment on content, not on the contributor: Keep the discussions focused upon the topic of the talk page, rather than on the personalities of the editors contributing to the talk page. Also, please stop making new sections every time something new comes up. It's really unnecessary. -- The Voidwalker ^Discuss 21:53, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Hu boy... this is going to be one hell of a boomerang... --Tarage (talk) 21:46, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

What does that mean? I filed this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#Talk:RepRap_project CaptainYuge (talk) 21:48, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

A request to full-protect an article talk page! Wow, just wow. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:01, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

It means WP:BOOMARANG. QuackGuru (talk) 21:51, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

In a nutshell, it means you are not going to get the response you hoped for. You will likely be blocked for this behavior. --Tarage (talk) 21:56, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm confused. So this guy edit wars like mad for months, gets called out (in this thread!) by admins for it, and I'll be blocked because I drew attention to the problem behavior and harassment by another user? And he's... free to edit war and harass? 21:58, 15 March 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by CaptainYuge (talk • contribs)

Considering you don't seem to understand that your version of events conflicts with pretty much everyone else who's looking at this's thoughts, I'm doubting you are going to understand. The more you throw a tantrum, the quicker you will be blocked. This will not end well for you. --Tarage (talk) 22:24, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

You're wrong. Jytdog blanked the article to a stub. I found it. I restored a small subset of the sourced content and he began edit warring within minutes over my edits. He demonstrated on the talk page that he has a "personal" standard for what counts as encycloepdiac content, stating outright that he won't allow things in the article that fail to meet "real world impact" standards. I asked for assistance about his edit warring in response to that, as he is operating off of his own personal standards, and refused to cite what if any policies backed up his position. What exactly in the timeline have I missed? CaptainYuge (talk) 22:32, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• CaptainYuge has exploded this into some huge drama in their head, very rapidly, and is not discussing in a simple way, the content they disagree about on the article Talk page. They are doing everything but that. Which makes this all feel strangely familiar. Jytdog (talk) 21:58, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

What drama? You are edit warring like mad and ordering people on the page not to include content unless they can demonstrate it shows evidence of a "real world impact", even if it's heavily cited. You are literally edit warring that nothing be included in the article unless your own personal standard that the content has to have some arbitrary 'real world application' is met. Which policy backs that position, exactly? CaptainYuge (talk) 22:01, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Would you please return to the article Talk page and start working through specific content/sourcing that you believe should be in the article? That would be great. Just simply, one at a time. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 22:12, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

No, I think I will first call upon you to cite the specific policy you are using to justify months of edit warring first as part of dispute resolution. Please cite the policy or recuse yourself on all accounts under your control from that article. CaptainYuge (talk) 22:18, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

By refusing to use the talk page to discuss edits, you are setting yourself up to be blocked. --Tarage (talk) 22:26, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

See my 22:32, 15 March 2016 (UTC) edit here. I am perfectly willing to discuss any content based on actual accepted policies here. Jytdog is refusing to cite which policies justify ANY of his removals of content. CaptainYuge (talk) 22:34, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Call me skeptical, but the filer is a brand new account that made a serious of large and complicated edits immediately after registering and knows about various noticeboards... No comment on jytdog's behavior, but CaptainYuge's is a bit suspicious. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 22:09, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I told jytdog I edited for years on and off by IP. I finally made an account because why not? CaptainYuge (talk) 22:17, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Just so folks are aware, I have filed this: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rowssusan. Jytdog (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
• and... they have apparently retired. Jytdog (talk) 22:54, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Not necessarily. The CU report at the SPI said that CaptainYuge has another account -- which the CU didn't name -- which was apparently not being used in violation of WP:SOCK. Now that the Captain Yuge account has announced its retirement, perhaps the CU, @DeltaQuad:, might say what the name of the second account is, in case the editor decides to use it to continue what CaptainYuge began? BMK (talk) 01:36, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• I can't reveal that until there is actual abuse under policy. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 04:21, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• Understood, but perhaps you can keep half an eye on that other account, since -- at least at this point -- you're the only one who will know when abuse of WP:SOCK occurs. BMK (talk) 18:54, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

That constitutes a personal attack, does it not? --Tarage (talk) 23:28, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

For when that gave the wrong result, I see that you've already opened Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/CaptainYuge. When did WP:B-R-SPI become such a popular policy? 8-( Andy Dingley (talk) 20:56, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

According to CaptainYuge, they "Decided to join after years of anonymously helping...".[40] CaptainYuge stated "I told jytdog I edited for years on and off by IP. I finally made an account because why not? "[41] But it has been confirmed that "CaptainYuge does have a second account".[42] QuackGuru (talk) 16:01, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

The two sets of statements are not necessarily contradictory, as the two accounts could have been created at the same time. BMK (talk) 18:56, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

My reading of Yuge's comments and DeltaQuad's admirable "there is no problem" silence was that this other account was created after this business kicked off, but before the technical SPI/CU. Yet despite this, we still have ongoing sniping and veiled personal attacks like these: [43] [44] from Jytdog. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:13, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

And still continuing, "Everybody (with the exception of CaptianYuge) from the RepRap community" Andy Dingley (talk) 22:29, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Some thoughts

I've mixed feelings about this, because, looking at the previous versions of the article in question, I understand the concerns regarding promotion that seems to to have motivated Jytdog here. That being said, this looks like a pretty obvious WP:BRD issue to me. This slow moving edit war of the last couple of weeks seems to have started when Jytdog removed nearly 34k of content at once, 30k in one edit. Pretty much every person who has responded to this issue on the talk page regards that as excessive. Now, A) they might largely be COI editors, and B) Jytdog might actually have the right of the content issue here, depending on his policy rationale, numbers aligned against him not withstanding. But, under BRD, because the content in question was part of a longterm stable version of the article (and especially given the boldness of removing so much content at once) the revert should have stood until such time that Jytdog had secured an unambiguous WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. As the party trying to effect a bold change to a stable version of an article, the burden is upon him to secure that consensus, especially in light of objection from every other voice on the talk page (even be that only four editors). If he, or any party, has concerns about the personal involvement/objectivity of editors working in that space, RfC can always be used to solicit additional outside voices. I think the average experienced editor is probably likely to side with Jytdog, or at least fall somewhere in the middle of the two positions but probably closer to Jytdog (as is the case with me), but A) a fuller consensus is still needed here rather than constant back-and-forth reverts or else this is, by definition, an edit war and B) I think some additional experienced editors might be able to put the issues into terms that might better satisfy the concerns of the regulars on that talk page.

Lastly, while I have questions about CaptainYuge's motivation in all of this (after recent events, I won't exactly be gobsmacked if the latest SPI shows a link between him and Rowssusan), I do agree in principle that this discussion ought to be handled in a more WP:CIVIL manner. I understand that Jytdog may be frustrated, but in my opinion, it is never appropriate to swear for emphasis in edit summaries; if nothing else it undermines the ability of other editors to assume that the party using this language is contributing with the calm we expect, and which makes arguments most compelling. Calling another editor's good-faith contributions "rank bullshit" is just never appropriate; there's always got to be a better--that is, more accurate, specific, and collegial--way to describe the shortcomings in the material. Let's remember that most of this material represents the collaborative efforts of a significant number of editors doing their best to present this topic accurately. Those are my thoughts over this dispute; in short, substantial support for Jytdog's position, but a general sense that he could fine-tune his approach to opposition in this instance. Snow ^{let's rap} 00:14, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

No arguments from me. Jytdog (talk) 00:41, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

According to Arbcom and the current consensus of the administrative corps in general, it is perfectly OK (for favoured editors/admins) to swear at other editors, call them cunts, call them trolls and tell them to fuck off, and have no absolutely no repercussions despite years of incivility. As repeat offenders blocked or dragged before arbcom get let off with not even a slapped wrist, opinining that it is 'inappropriate to swear in edit summaries' is both naive and factually incorrect with the current crop of administrators. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:28, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

• We actually have a list of favored editors, and for $20 I'll be glad to add you. Don't tell anyone, esp. not Doug Weller--he charges $40. Drmies (talk) 04:57, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• How much does it cost to buy one's way onto the list? Just for insurance, you understand. BMK (talk) 18:57, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Normally, $20... for you, about 20K  ;) _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 19:00, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

@Only in death: - I doubt that's a true statement. Swearing directly at other users in edit summaries could definitely be considered as a WP:NPA violation and be treated with consequences. Could you please cite what led you to believe that making personal attacks at other users is perfectly fine? Thanks, — Omni Flames (talk contribs) 07:32, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Take a look at Arbcom declined cases or archived discussions at AN. See prolific uncivil editors being unblocked after less than 24 hours by their pet admins. One of the current Arbs stated in a recent rejected case that the 'community was not clear on defining civility.' There are at least 3 standing policies and one of the pillars that state civility is required, yet because current arbcom members dont want to sanction their favoured subjects (why antagonise someone who voted for you/will vote for you in the future) they make idiotic statements like that. The 'community' is clear on how civility should be treated. Its enforcement by admins and Arbcom means the reality is very different. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:33, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

User:Weist.michael is disruptive over at AfC

User:Weist.michael is trying to write an autobiography on himself, which in and of itself is not the reason that i am reporting him. The reason is that the user has repeatedly removed reviewer comments as well as review declined submission decisions from the draft. [[45]], [[46]], [[47]] in order to remove criticism and to ask the other parent. Not only that, but this isn't the only version of this submission to be submitted, it was previously deleted: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Michael_Weist where in the discussion the user apparently created a sock puppet User:Homie123456790 for the sole purpose of arguing against the AfD (presumably because arguing against the deletion of your own article is a conflict of interest). Flagrant misuse of reviewers time. Please block indefinitely.  InsertCleverPhraseHere  00:06, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

It was an honest mistake, I didn't think it would effect things. I was imply trying to clean up my account, I thought all that stuff looked ugly. As previously discussed, I am not the subject. This is not an autobiography. I am a big fan, hence my username, but I am not the subject. I don't know what the "sock puppet" is but i've been trying to get this article made for months so I can show Michael at this event he is going to. I did change my name once by trying to create a different account because I kept running into issues similar to this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Weist.michael (talk • contribs) 00:53, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

If it was previously discussed that you are not Michael Weist, excuse me, I was not privy to that discussion. However, if it was "an honest mistake" than how do you explain [This diff] when you wrote "(changes made to citations and some content after last rejection)" in the edit summary to disguise the fact that you were deleting another editor's review comments. (note that no changes were actually made to citations between the comment and this deletion). I want to assume good faith here, but your actions have made it pretty hard. When i wrote that you shouldn't resubmit without a substantial rewrite, instead of doing such a rewrite, you deleted my comments, added a couple of links to Facebook and youtube, didn't rewrite anything, and then resubmitted it for review again.  InsertCleverPhraseHere  03:41, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I appreciate someone sticking up for me. I have felt nothing but harassed by User:Insertcleverphrasehere — Preceding unsigned comment added by Weist.michael (talk • contribs) 00:57, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

An accusation of harassment is pretty serious, but I'll let my actions stand for themselves. The only interaction I've had with the user is on the AfC draft page as well as on my talk page.  InsertCleverPhraseHere  01:12, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

@Weist.michael: - If Michael Weist is notable enough to have a draft article, and you are not Michael Weist, then you need to change your username, as it is a violation of our WP:Username policy#Real names to have a user name that implies that you are someone who you are not. Please ask for a change of name at WP:CHU. Failure to do so may result in an admin blocking you from editing. BMK (talk) 01:30, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

There are a few inexperienced editors, and this is an inexperienced editor, who think, based on not having read the policies, that the user name of the creator of an article should be the same as the title of the article. Therefore this is probably a good-faith error, but the policy is clear. Ask for a change of name. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:10, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

AGF, this editor is inexperienced, and needs to change their username, as per the link provided by BMK. However, the repeated blanking of comments is more problematic. If it had happened a single time, than I would agree that it could have been an honest mistake. Two or more times and it appears to be a pattern of deceit. This editor hasn't worked on anything else other than this draft. I don't know if a block is warranted, or would even accomplish anything. However, the draft has been declined by at least 5 different editors, and this editor hasn't seemed willing to listen to advice and guidance. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 03:34, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I made changes to the content of the draft as well. I will request a name change. I didn't know I couldn't erase comments, I thought it was part of the page and I was simply trying to clean it up But I also added some content. I have no idea how to do nearly anything on here, so I haven't edited other's work simply because I don't want to make an error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Weist.michael (talk • contribs) 17:57, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Borders around infobox images by Illegitimate Barrister

Illegitimate Barrister has been placing the "{{!}}border" in infobox images for years.

I first contact him and asked about this in March, 2015 here. His response seemed to take no consideration of the errors I mentioned and he just stated he thinks it makes the image look better. Less than 1 minute later he deleted my question.

He continued to add the "{{!}}border" to images in infoboxes, and I made another comment on his page 4 days later telling him of the errors it causes and that it not only prevents images from showing up on mouseovers, it causes script errors. His response was an accusation of me stalking and harassing him, and he deleted everything again less than 1 minute later. He still continued to add the border to infobox images, and I pleaded with him one more time, stating I would take this here(to ANI). His response was the same, and also stated he would take the issue here, before deleting the thread once again within 1 minute. But this time he seemed to stop adding the border to images. Another editor complained about this also on his Talk page, which he responded to with much the same reasoning(he likes it, no big deal).

I have occasionally ran into the same problems(seeing the border and removing it) over the last year, but not with the frequency. Now the editor has once again begun adding the border en masse, and I frustratingly gave the editor a 'Final warning'.

After each of complaints, the editor just makes smart ass replies and then deletes the thread within 1 minute. He did state for me to find some policy which forbids him from adding this, which I am sure there must be. I don't know where they are located. Bgwhite seems to run some script that fixes the error in this edit, but I have no idea what it is. Can an administrator please get this editor to stop doing this? It not only causes mouseover errors, it screws up the page on my mobile device. Dave Dial (talk) 02:45, 17 March 2016 (UTC).

Well, I am sadly not surprised that it has come to this. This is a complete and utter disgraceful waste of time. No violation of MOS was committed here; Davey just doesn't like my edits. So be it. But, his arbitrary feelings on my edits do not automatically constitute Wikipedia policy and he has yet to point to one MOS tenet that had been violated.

Davey charges that I am breaking the rules. I deny it; and what is his proof? Davey have yet to properly implicate me and point to one MOS tenet that has been violated. If I did violate the MOS, Davey knows it or Davey does not know it. If Davey does know it, Davey is inexcusable for not designating the MOS tenet that has been broken and proving the fact. If Davey does not know it, Davey is inexcusable for asserting it, and especially for persisting in the assertion after Davey has tried and failed to make the proof. Davey needs to be told that persisting in a charge which one does not know to be true, is simply malicious slander.

Before he disgracefully posted this ANI, I specifically told Davey in compromise that were he to point out the MOS tenet that I allegedly broke, I would cease the editing that he didn't like and that such hypothetical tenet supposedly banned. But he has yet to do so, and may I say that I suppose strongly that it is because it does not exist. Had he pointed out to me the MOS tenet that I allegedly broke, I would have stopped, and we wouldn't be here. But, of course, he didn't. Such is dishonesty.

The ANI is not a tool for getting your way by making your arbitrary feelings law. The will of the sovereign is not law. You don't like my edits. Too bad. I don't like many other peoples' edits either. But I don't threaten them into submission and abuse the ANI to get my way. If any rule was broken here, it was by Davey, who stalked and threatened me.

P.S. As for "smart-ass replies", you're the one who came up to me with hostility numerous times and stalked and threatened me. Yet you feign surprise when I object to being stalked and threatened! Such arrogance! No other users have aggressively came up to me with any concern over my editing in this matter. If you're hostile to me, I will reciprocate in kind. If you treat me with dignity, I will do the same. You've got to give respect to earn it. I've been on Wikipedia far too long to passively sit back and take B.S. like yours, and judging by the vitriol on Davey's talk page, he doesn't seem keen on getting along with other users and treating them with respect either. Oh, and I didn't "delete" the messages. That's a bald-faced lie. I don't have the ability to delete edits anyway as I am not an administrator. I simply archived them. And edits you disagree with are not "vandalism", no matter how much you may want them to be labelled as such. – Illegitimate Barrister, 04:51, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

If there isn't already something in the MOS about image borders in general and/or for infobox image borders, maybe someone start an RFC. Infoboxes could easily be coded to allow for image borders. Adding {{!}}border is not how you go about it, especially if it causes an error. As a WP:Template editor, you should know better. If you want to be able to use borders on infobox images, I suggest that you start an RFC on VPR to get consensus for updating the various infobox templates. — JJMC89 (T·C) 05:47, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Fair enough. That's precisely how this should have been handled, instead of immaturely going straight to ANI. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk), 05:49, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

There's been plenty of time to handle it this way, as evidenced above. Your response is a concerning display of incivility and failure to acknowledge what the complaint here actually is. You claim you're being stalked and harassed because "Davey" simply doesn't like your edits. However he appears to explain perfectly reasonably how your edits are introducing a technical problem. That certainly constitutes more than "I don't like it". Both here and in the responses he's linked to, you're completely dismissive of this fact because "you're not breaking any rules". That may or may not be the case, but regardless most people would consider aesthetic edits that introduce technical errors to be unconstructive, negative additions, and your responses to be sub-par to what we expect in a collaborative project. I will also note that "I'm not breaking any rules" is not a reason to continue to make contested edits. We don't operate according to "rules", but according to consensus. When conflicts arise, you need to discuss and seek consensus, not brush off concerns and "archive" discussions after a minute. I don't know why this would be any different. You're a highly established editor in good standing and you should be above this. Swarm ♠ 05:58, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

@Illegitimate Barrister: - This didn't go "straight to ANI". I have been asking you to stop inserting the border script for over a year. All I wanted you to do was realize that it was causing errors and stop adding it. If you are acknowledging that you realize this and are going to stop adding the "{{!}}border" script, then I have no further issues with you. I just don't understand why it has taken this long. Contested edits need consensus, is one such policy. I don't know a lot about MOS, but thought since you are an editor that is helping with the project, you would receive my letting you know the script was causing errors in a better manner. Dave Dial (talk) 13:32, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Illegitimate Barrister does say on his TP... "if I've made a mistake somewhere, which we're all bound to do at some point, you can bring it to my attention so I can better rectify it." This is not, it seems, the case. _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 13:58, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

@Illegitimate Barrister: - "If any rule was broken here, it was by Davey, who stalked and threatened me." - do you have any diffs to support this? - ^theWOLFchild 18:39, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Editor won't stop adding unlinked entry to dab page

Böri (talk · contribs) is determined to add "Abdashtart (Strato I, 365 - 352 BC), king of Sidon" to the dab page at Straton. S/He has been reverted many times, and I have explained on his/her talk page why dab pages don't include entries which don't have a blue link to an existing article. S/He isn't listening. PamD 09:19, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Protected for now, the user can start an RfC if he thinks it's genuinely valid, or write the article, or whatever. Guy (Help!) 09:23, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Looks like that got Böri to talk. See Talk:Straton. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 15:28, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• Why should Abdashtart I (which miraculously appeared just now) be linked on Straton? Drmies (talk) 15:32, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
• Never mind. Guy, hope you don't mind: I undid the protection: the problem is over, I think. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:35, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

No problem at all, the problem is fixed so no need for protection. All good. Guy (Help!) 22:05, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• Thanks, Drmies for creating the missing article: Böri seemed determinedly unwilling, or unable, to do so him/herself. So now the link s/he was so keen to add prematurely is perfectly legitimate and all is well. I hope they're grateful to you! PamD 16:20, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Continuous disruptive editing Radegast (god)

Chupito persistently changes the (unsourced) content with his version (also unsourced). At the end of 2014, he restored a 2011 version of the article and keeps adding unsourced info from that version. At that time, I summarized the problem on the article's talk page, tried to show the problem in my edit summaries, and warned chupito several times that his edits are disruptive. For lack/unawareness of better templates used vandalism templates on his talk page. He had stopped adding the changes in early 2015 but now he started again.

I do not know what to do, reverting does not solve the problem. However, his unsourced content is misleading and as such I have to keep removing it or let the article be. Unfortunately, I did not have time to improve the article using proper sources, so I tried to maintain the status quo. The latest change: diff but a more profound inspection is needed. Thanks for help, --WikiHannibal (talk) 13:02, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• This looks like a minor dispute over content to me, with a lack of talk page discussion but, first and foremost, a lack of actual sourcing to fight over. Both of you claim that this or that is unsourced, but neither of you seem to be citing anything. Now, on pages 49-50 of this book I find the claim that Radegast is "well-documented"--why don't you two go prove it? And don't forget to search for alternate spellings. Did any of you order a copy of The Gods of the Ancient Slavs. Tatishchev and the Beginnings of Slavic Mythology by Myroslava T. Znayenko, reviewed here? And if not, can you please do so? Carry on, Drmies (talk) 15:22, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into it. However, that's that or can I expect another administrator to help and look into the issue? I wrote that I don't have time to improve the article with proper sources and you suggest precisly that. In 2014 Cupito restored the 2011 version, users Jirka.h23 and Volunteer Marek reverted it before I got involved. But after that it was only me reverting. My point was, and is, not to use (parts of) the 2011 version, because the 2014 version had been tacitly approved by many editors (2011-2014), and was without discussion changed by Chupito in 2014. WikiHannibal (talk) 16:36, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, we could accuse Chupito of slow edit warring, but such would apply to you as well, given that both versions are woefully underreferenced and thus the claim of OR cuts both ways. I cannot see from here which version is better, which version is to be preferred, who's inserting more OR than the other. Maybe Volunteer Marek can help out, but his revert was in 2014, and what he reverted was clearly OR ("There are several arguments which indicate that the first explanation is the correct one. As already stated, ..."--that's OR); the recent reverts do not involve such language. Surely in the last two years you could have found some time to improve the article. Drmies (talk) 17:15, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I believe that if there is an unsourced edit that is considered controversial (as I consider Chupito's edits), the normal way is to keep the article as it was (until a compromise can be reached/other editors got involved) because that text has been approved by previous users. Am I wrong? Persistently adding unsourced content which is challenged is what? And, to correct, I did not introduce any OR to the article, I just tried to maintain the previous version. I did not ask you or anybody to decide which version is better. (BTW the book you mentioned is on Vasily Tatishchev's 18th century study, not on slavic mythology per se, and his views are "of little value to the historian or folklorist", to quote another review by Perkewski in Slavic Review. Sourcing the article is more complicated than you think, which Lemongirl942 already started to find out. So, to answer your previous question, I do not think I will order it.) WikiHannibal (talk) 03:11, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

(Non-Admin Comment) I was just looking over and found some sources including this [48]. Will post more of them on the talk page of the article. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 18:31, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Lemongirl942, thanks, but one of the problems with Google Books was that I found mostly book sources from the 1800s and early 1900s, and in many cases they are just not scientifically acceptable. Some of those are by scientists and historians; what your link is pointing to is a footnote in the 12-volume epic poem Attila or the Triumph of Christianity (1838) by William Herbert (botanist). Drmies (talk) 02:50, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Legal threats by Checkingtheweb

See edit summaries in Checkingtheweb's contributions (specifically, this and this). Reporting threats here per WP:NLT. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 18:01, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

User has been notified of this ANI thread. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 18:03, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes but can we check WP:DOLT? He appears to be contesting a date of birth. Is he right there?--Malcolmxl5 (talk) 18:16, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Malcolmxl5 - Good question. Let me take a look and get back to you. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 18:21, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Having the wrong birthday for someone isn't something that any court of law would ever take seriously as an actionable libel or slander complaint in and of itself — it's a minor and easily corrected error with no reputational consequences whatsoever, so no court of law would ever do anything but dismiss it as a frivolous complaint. I have, for the record, removed the disputed birthdate from the article on the grounds that it's not properly supported — if you have to rely on an old archived version of a source for information that's been removed from the current version of that same source, then you need to keep in mind that "it was wrong" just might be the reason it was removed, and the source failed to support 1985 as the subject's year of birth. And I've also already politely advised the editor to adjust their attitude. So for the moment I'd consider this resolved, although we should certainly keep an eye on it if it flares up again. Bearcat (talk) 18:25, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Why is your post sprinkled so generously with italics? EEng 20:28, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Ah, Bearcat you beat me to it. I was just removing the same information that you did; there is no year on the birthdate provided by the source, and I could find no reliable reference containing an exact date of birth, so I (well, Bearcat...) removed it from the article. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 18:30, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• I've restored the previous version which was reliably sourced and I see no particular reason to remove the information. Based on this user's own edits to that very page, they don't particularly have any idea what they're talking about and I see no reason we should grant their word any special weight. The year of birth was added after the fact by an inexperienced editor—this is certainly no reason to blank the entire page. Also, please remember we issue NLT blocks as a matter of policy, not based on our interpretation of how credible said threats are. If any semblance of a legal threat persists from this user, I will be indefinitely blocking their account. Regards, Swarm ♠ 01:22, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Laura Branigan birth date, and birth place

Overall, the issue is official source verus user edited sources. Ultimately, the users Born53 swe and Thomas.W are using user submitted references to prove a different birth date and birth place. The official website for the singer is being ignored for this. There is a lot to read at this point and much of it in the last day. I have tried once to correct the birth date and place and got reverted. Reading over the talk page, it goes into other languages, and weird conspiracies about her age at death.

Overall, the issue is her birth date. Official website says July 3, 1957. She was born in Brewster, New York. Descending view is July 3, 1952 in Mount Kisco, New York. Devilmanozzy (talk) 18:56, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Devilmanozzy - Have you discussed your concerns on the article's talk page, or with these editors on their talk page? ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 18:59, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I found this article [49] which quotes "one superfan" who supports the 1952 date. And then I had a look at the talk page of the article. Seems like a WP:COI. (I am not providing a diff since I don't want to violate WP:OUTING, although the editor in question has voluntarily provided the name). --Lemongirl942 (talk) 19:36, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• (edit conflict)This is ridiculous. See User talk:Diannaa#Laura Branigan for more information, and page history of Laura Branigan for previous disruption, disruption going back several years and severe enough to result in several blocks last year, and protection of the article on and off for the past several years. Laura Branigan's former manager (editing as User:Vince-OHE, formerly named "Other Half Entertainment" and with self-proclaimed COI, and also editing as many IPs), claims it's 1957 but has provided no independent sources for it, only his own website and sources that obviously got the infornation from there, while other editors, including User:Born53 swe, claim it's 1952, and have made a much more convincing case than the manager. It is in ther words a content dispute, and as such does not belong on ANI. Thomas.W ^talk 19:43, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I agree that this is a content dispute and such discussion belongs on the article's talk page, not in an ANI. Devilmanozzy, please create a discussion on the article's talk page (if you haven't already done so), so that the issue can be discussed and resolved properly. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 19:49, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Oshwah, I really don't know what to do. I usually edit at wikia, which has none of this. I am here to correct a birth date a birth place to a singer from a soundtrack to a movie I care about. Devilmanozzy (talk) 21:55, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Devilmanozzy - There are other editors that have issues with the date that you're trying to add to the article, as well as the source that you're trying to use to support the change. You need to properly discuss these concerns by navigating to the article's talk page and creating a discussion to resolve it. If another editor has already created a discussion, you will want to respond to it and discuss the issue with them and address their concerns. Once a consensus is reached, the article can be modified (or kept at the status quo) in order to reflect that consensus. In order to allow this ANI discussion to be closed for archiving (this issue does not belong on this noticeboard), please respond on my talk page with any additional questions or concerns that you may have. I'll be happy to assist you there. :-) ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:17, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

User:Dweller opened up a section about getting links. (Talk:Laura Branigan#Trying to help resolve the birth year issue) Is that what is needed? Devilmanozzy (talk) 22:44, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict)"Other Half Entertainment" have behaved as if they own the article about Laura Branigan for ten years now, see this post from July 2006 on Talk:Laura Branigan, where they claim to have the right to control what's in the Wikipedia article, it is also complicated by there being two "official websites", laurabraniganonline.com, owned by Other Half Entertainment, and laurabranigan.com, owned by someone else, fighting over which site is the official one. So all of it is one big mess... Thomas.W ^talk 20:00, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• In case this was not completely obvious, if it's disputed, remove it until there is unambiguous agreement on talk and completely robust sourcing. Guy (Help!) 22:04, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

The reason I brought this down here was because I was unable to organize a discussion on this due to how Thomas has been reacting to what I brought to the article. It is confusing to come to an article ruled by one point of view. After finding a ongoing battle starting up, I asked for help. Now it seems that the discussion is now in progress. Hopefully the outcome will be respected. Devilmanozzy (talk) 22:56, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Possible WP:COMPETENCY issue

While on NPP, I came across an article created by

shMaterinski jezik ovoga korisnika je srpskohrvatski. Матерњи језик овога корисника је хрватскосрпски.

hr-4Ovaj suradnik hrvatski razumije kao da mu je materinski jezik.

en-4This user can contribute with a near-native level of English.

sr-4Овај корисник течно говори српски језик. Ovaj korisnik tečno govori srpski jezik.

bs-4Ovaj korisnik tečno govori bosanski.

mk-2Корисникот средно зборува македонски.

sl-2Uporabnik srednje dobro govori slovenščino.

de-2Dieser Benutzer hat fortgeschrittene Deutschkenntnisse.

la-1Hic usor simplici latinitate contribuere potest.

This user is a member of the Cooperatives WikiProject.

This user is a participant in WikiProject Women in Red (redlinks→blue)

My sandbox

I am reading and writing mostly in English and sometimes editing English Wikipedia also.

My focus are content gaps and marginalized knowledge.

When able I inform local WikiProjects of my positions and experiences, but that to use Meta more., which consisted of the following [50]. Seemingly done in good faith, but malformed and incorrect. They have had an account here since roughly 2002, but only started editing around 2011, making about 15 edits per year. They seem to have some trouble understanding how to properly create and format articles, have created several articles that have been speedied over the years, and have never responded to a comment on their talk page. There have also been some copyvios [51] and articles tagged as promotional. After they created the New Society for Visual Arts at NGBK, I redirected it, did a quick translation and improved the article... their last edit to the article was this [52]. I suspect they mean well, but lack WP:COMPETENCY. Kindzmarauli (talk) 18:58, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

It is much more simple - I moved it to sandbox as I wanted to edit it in better form and more punctual info. Also as current (English) title of the page is not at all official name of the organization (they only use nGbK in English - never translate or expand it - check original web EN pages)... Zblace (talk) 19:08, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

This is what I mean. You didn't move it to your sandbox, you turned the existing article into an unreferenced single-sentence, than you apparently copied and pasted it into your sandbox. We use English titles on the English Wikipedia, not German ones. The page you created initially wasn't an article at all, it was some sort of unreferenced sentence with a bare URL to an article on the German Wikipedia. The things you're doing here, though you may be well-intentioned, are creating a mess that people then have to clean up. Kindzmarauli (talk) 20:18, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

The user has also attempted to add the entry to a dab page repeatedly. He's been warned twice by myself, subsequently resorting to personal attacks. It's unfortunate. Best, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 21:22, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I just removed a whole pile of unsourced POV edits fromthe article added by the IP 91.22.131.126, which would clearly seem to be the same editor. I believe a block on the editor in question is in order. BMK (talk) 14:00, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Application of WP:ROUGHCONSENSUS

Robert McClenon (talk · contribs) has closed an RfC at talk:Mayan languages talk:Maya civilization in favor of a minority viewpoint held by 3 editors against 9 editors citing WP:ROUGHCONSENSUS. As I understand this policy, it is only to be applied in cases where the majority argument clearly violates a policy, and also it seems only to apply to admin closures in AfD discussions? Is this a valid and reasonable application of the policy on rough consensus?--·maunus · snunɐɯ· 19:32, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• @Maunus: I'm pretty sure you mean Talk:Maya civilization, as the talk page for Mayan languages has not been edited since October 2015, and that was by a bot. As far as the close goes, I agree that it should probably be looked over. -- The Voidwalker ^Discuss 20:26, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

He does specifically this RFC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KoshVorlon (talk • contribs) 20:31, 17 March 2016‎

As to where to discuss, see Wikipedia:Closing discussions#Challenging_other_closures. As I explain there and on my talk page, the issue is whether I misread what Yes and No meant in the original question. I did see 9 No and 3 Yes !votes as a rough consensus for No. I moved this thread to WP:AN, and User:Maunus has reverted my deletion here, but the properly placed closure review is still at WP:AN. I'll leave it up to an uninvolved admin to close this thread here because WP:AN is a better forum. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:59, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

No, my question is about the correct application of the policy WP:ROUGHCONSENSUS - it is not a formal closure review. This is an appropriate place to discuss this. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 22:12, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm confused. You asked if this particular RFC closure was a correct application of a guideline, yet you say you don't want to challenge the closure. We can't do the first without looking at the second. Or do you want us to go around in bureaucratic circles for a while until someone does challenge the closure? Katie^talk 00:53, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

There are two separate questions. One is the application of the policy - this has broad implications. Then there is the specific case of the RfC closure, which it would only make sense to challenge if the policy has been applied incorrectly.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 01:21, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• @Maunus: I'm not sure what "policy" you're referring to. There is quite simply no policy. WP:ROUGHCONSENSUS is actually part of the deletion guidelines which don't apply to this situation at all. The actual policy on consensus says nothing remotely akin to what you describe; it actually makes no mention of "rough consensus" at all. You may be surprised to learn that there is no policy or guideline on closing discussions in general or the application of rough consensus. WP:RFC simply says RfCs can be closed by any uninvolved editor and directs you to WP:CLOSE for more information on formal closure. WP:CLOSE actually says the desired standard is rough consensus. So, in sum, I see nothing wrong whatsoever with Robert's closure. If you dispute his reading of consensus, then of course there are ways to appeal, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with reading a "rough consensus" and there never has been. Swarm ♠ 01:41, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@Swarm:. You see nothing wrong with closing a discussion in which 9 people !vote no and 3 people !vote yes as "yes" without saying why the 3 peoples argument is considered stronger than the 9? How is that a "rough consensus"? So when can I go to an Rfc with 9 against 3 and close it in agreement with the 3 and claim "rough consensus" with no further argument? If there is no policy on "rough consensus" that aplies outside of deletion discussions then RObert McClenon misapplied the guideline since he used it as support for disregarding the majority argument.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 03:48, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

@Maunus: You asked a specific question above regarding "the correct application of the policy". I merely answered your question by clarifying that this aspect isn't an issue—there is no rule regarding rough consensus of any sort. Beyond that, I'm not sure why you're not understanding Robert's replies. He clearly states above that he did see a consensus for "no" and intended to side with them. He explained both here and on his talk page that he may have simply misunderstood what the "no"s meant and has offered to revise the close if he misinterpreted them. In the RfC, "no" meant do not omit the repetition. It appears he simply took them to mean do not repeat. Given the double-negative involved, it seems an easy enough mistake to make and all that's required here is a revised closing comment. I was able to deduce this by his reply on his talk page. It appears you were so caught up on the perceived injustice, you overlooked the fact that he made an honest mistake that is easily fixed. Swarm ♠ 04:19, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

What I had said was the 9 Nos and 3 Yeses was a rough consensus for No. If I misunderstood which position was Yes and which position was No, then my close was incorrect, not because of any confusion about ROUGHCONSENSUS, but because of a misunderstanding. If so, I would suggest that this thread be closed as in the wrong forum, and reopened or refiled at WP:AN. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:26, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Exactly what I was trying to explain. You misinterpreted the "no" position resulting in a mistaken closing comment opposite of the actual consensus. No big deal. We merely need someone to revise the closing comment and the issue is resolved... Swarm ♠ 04:34, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

I would be fine with that, although I find it hard to believe that Robert McClenon did not realize that his closing comment was in agreement with the three yes !votes and against the 9 no votes, since the rationale in fact repeats the phrasing of the yes votes, and in no way seems to mistake yes and no. But if Robert McClenon acknowledges the closing was an error, then he can certainly revise the close himself to fit the consensus, or undo it and let someone else do the closing. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 07:09, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

WP:CIR issue?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Would an admin please look into the editing of User:DANE YOUSSEF? This editor has received numberous warnings over the years about not adding unsourced information to articles [53],[54], [55], [56], [57], [58], [59], [60], [61], [62], [63], and was even blocked three times for doing so [64], [65], [66], and yet continues in this practice. I left him a strongly worded warning recently about his editing [67], but there was another incident, and another warning from another editor, today. [68] The editor very rarely responds to any of these warnings, simply continues on their way. I'm afraid that the editor may not be able to understand our policies (there have been other warnings about other issues, including using multiple accounts), and may require a CIR sanction. Certainly a formal warning from an admin couldn't hurt. BMK (talk) 21:09, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Editor notified. BMK (talk) 21:11, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Block log. Previous blocks were for 48 hours, 2 weeks, and 21 days. BMK (talk) 21:29, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

See also User:SURFUR, which appears to be an (abandoned) alt account of the same person. My immediate impression is that userpage may be a WP:NOTWEBHOST violation; it looks like a CV/talent bio (info like height, build, hair color, eye color)... I know we have a lot of leeway for talking about ourselves on our userpages, but damn. The buffet of talent-related links and social networking links is a little worrisome as well. Other factoids: Indeffed on English Wiktionary for self-promotion (since 2010) and doesn't seem to use edit summaries. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 00:11, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Obviously the same guy - the user pages are pretty much identical. SURFUR has no blocks, but also has a talk page full of warnings for the same kind of stuff. BMK (talk) 00:43, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

There's also User:DANE RAMADAN YOUSSEF: abandoned account, edited from 25 January - 12 November 2011, pretty much the same kind of user page, talk page has two complains about no sources, also indef blocked on en.wiktionary. BMK (talk) 00:48, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Looks like Dane has mirrored his same CV/userpage over at meta as well. I'm wondering if this is some sort of clumsy attempt at SEO. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 00:53, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Any more accounts, make sure to check the global contribs. Dane has done the same spamming of his CV on French WP, Polish WP, species.wikimedia, WikiSource... pretty much every project we have. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 00:56, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• I find it nothing short of shocking that he's gotten away with this for so long. 2500+ edits and not a single one on an article talk page. Blocking him and his related accounts right now. Swarm ♠ 01:54, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Handing the crosswiki spam

While I know it kind of falls outside the purview of this board, I'm at a bit of a loss for how to address the breadth of this editor's crosswiki self-promotion. He has spammed copies of his userpage on everything from Simple English Wikipedia to Wikiquote to the MediaWiki Wiki to Spanish Wiktionary... etc etc etc. Would someone knowledgeable in how to handle these sorts of crosswiki issues take a look at this, perhaps taking discussion over to Meta? —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 05:14, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

You can ask for a steward to issue a global block at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Steward_requests/Global_block Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:31, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

A bizarre e-mail

I just received a strange e-mail from Freedomlover61 (talk · contribs). It reads:

I noticed recently you had some trouble with edit warring.

I can help you. Join our group.

We will write messages in your support and do reverts in your support.

Whatever you want us to do, we will help you do it. So long as you help each other in our group.

If you are interested please add me on this skype id: [redacted]

Or just reply back to this email.

No more getting blocked on wikipedia or having edits reverted by idiots.

Given that Freedomlover has made no edits as I am writing this, I suspect the account is a sockpuppet, though I have no idea who the sockmaster might be. Is there anything we should be doing here? Sir Sputnik (talk) 00:11, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Sir Sputnik - Indeed, that is very strange. If I remember correctly, I believe that CheckUsers can view logs of correspondences sent by an account (just "Email was sent from X to Y") - it could be a sock, but my first thought is a possible spam user. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 00:32, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

It is indeed curious. I recommend you not replying to the message. Right now, they can only email you through Wikipedia but if you reply, they will have your email address and they could continue to reach out to you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:37, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Agreed with Liz - do not respond to the user's correspondence to you. Else, the user will receive your email address in your reply. Has this user sent you this email repeatedly, or just once? My real curiosity is if he/she is sending emails to many users (again, CheckUser can confirm). Otherwise, it really doesn't assert that the account is a sockpuppet. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 00:46, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

They've only e-mailed me the one time, though it certainly sounds like I'm not the only one to receive this message. Sir Sputnik (talk) 02:11, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/Freedomlover60 Freedomlover60 I got an e-mail from Freedomlover60 today. I will not repeat what was said in the e-mail. You won't believe what they said. I might have to take some time off of Wikipedia. QuackGuru (talk) 02:12, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

QuackGuru If the email contains any threats, outing, or otherwise anything that makes you uncomfortable, please make sure to report it using proper procedures. If you need help with that, please do not hesitate to ask. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 02:54, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

They've been blocked now; could someone add an "email disabled" flag to that block? —Jeremy v^_^v ^Bori! 02:18, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

•  Checkuser note: These accounts are  Confirmed: Harrisonhancock, Davidbrennan11, Freedomlover62, Freedomlover61, and Freedomlover60. I've blocked and disabled email access. Mike V • Talk 02:20, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
• SchroCat, don't tell anyone--I think the secret is out... Drmies (talk) 02:39, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

o.0 ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 03:02, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

WP:Brian Martin (social scientist) : other editor is feeling stalked/harassed. And is also attacking me.

• Brian Martin (social scientist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Help Desk refered me here. As Gongwool [69] is feeling harassed and stalked I think it better to discuss resolutions with others present. On BLP WP:Brian Martin (social scientist)[70] I am getting attacked and Gongwool is feeling stalked/harassed.

Gongwool is refusing to discuss edits with me. Rather Gongwool posted their discussion to an admin's page without notifying me. [71]

I have made the mistake of addressing user conduct on theBLP Talk page.

• Examples of SmithBlue addressing user conduct on talk page: [72], [73], [74], [75]
• Examples of attacks by Gongwool and Gongwool feeling harrased :WP:Brian Martin Talk page:

Accuses SmithBlue of CoI:[76], Accusation of Harrassment and DE, statement of no further comms.[77], Claims SmithBlue wishes to "whitewash" the article and has a CoI: [78]

• Examples of attacks, feeling stalked and harrased, noncivil and accusatory edit sums:
• 07:06, 9 February 2016‎ Gongwool (talk | contribs)‎ . . (7,122 bytes) (+78)‎ . . (Fixed para due to complaining IP editor.)
• 05:29, 15 March 2016‎ Gongwool (talk | contribs)‎ . . (11,733 bytes) (+427)‎ . . (Add text from book as I was being from agro editor not practicing Good Faith.)
• 05:55, 15 March 2016‎ Gongwool (talk | contribs)‎ . . (11,799 bytes) (+66)‎ . . (Added 2 more references to hopefully stop agro from an editor.)
• 23:16, 17 March 2016‎ Gongwool (talk | contribs)‎ . . (13,680 bytes) (+658)‎ . . (Undid revision 710599623 by SmithBlue (talk) It is WP:RS Science news journal. Sorry, I don't discuss with this stalky editor due to his prior harassment. So won't engage in his silly arguments.)
• 23:45, 17 March 2016‎ Gongwool (talk | contribs)‎ . . (13,704 bytes) (+24)‎ . . (→‎Criticism: Changed text to quote to satisfy any pro-OPV-AIDS / pro-Vaccine-Autism link 'Fringe theorists' who may be overly-critical of cites here for reasons of bias.)

I do want the "stalky" "harrasment" issue cleaned up. I do not want an WP editor feeling stalked and harrasssed. Nor do I want to be portrayed in those terms. And I want the attacks to stop. Where to from here? (This BLP is very unstable. There were recent ongoing BLP violation issues. Diffs of large changes; [79], [80] Editing practices may need to be addressed.) SmithBlue (talk) 03:34, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

This is very confusing.

1. Are you the one feeling harassed or is Gongwool feeling harassed?
2. Are you speaking of yourself in the 3rd person?

Blackmane (talk) 04:23, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I SmithBlue am speaking of myself in the 3rd person above. "Gongwool [81] is feeling harassed and stalked". SmithBlue (talk) 07:00, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

1. Hi, yes it's confusing. I have not requested that this editor make a complaint about himself on my behalf so I have crossed out the parts of the complaint on my behalf that I never asked for. With that in mind others may understand why I don't engage with this editor.

2. Anyway, I think the real issue here is that this particular editor has has a current suspension warning from an admin for editing "fringe theory" issues and is sore with this. Whereas I don't support fringe theory and (understandingly) have no such warnings hanging over my head. He will now certainly reply below in an attempt to engage me in some awkward argy-bargy agenda, but I will not reply. Have a good day. Thanks. Bye. Gongwool (talk) 05:41, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Please don't refactor others' comments, Gongwool. That said, I'm kinda glad this was brought here... though I am still confused. This ended up on my user talk page and frankly I ignored it as an editor dispute that I didn't want part of and because I really didn't understand what was going on. Anyway, it needs some attention. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 05:55, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

OK EvergreenFir, understood. But to all others please ignore the 95% of the above complaint which involves the other editor making a complaint about himself on my behalf. I did not authorise such. I'm also confused... but just getting on with WP editor business and avoiding those who have a 'fringe theory' (see his warning from admin here) agenda who desperately try to wind me up. I know there's policies at WP about pushing fringe theory and totally agree. Thanks, bye. Gongwool (talk) 06:20, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

As is obvious Gongwool portrays me as "pushing a fringe theory". Given that I'm not "pushing a fringe theory" this seems to be a form of taunting. Taunting would seem to disrupt editing. SmithBlue (talk) 07:00, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

See I told you he'd try to engage in argy-bargy argument and wind me up. Taunting? I think his bizarre reverse complaint (making a complaint on my behalf identifying himself as the offender) shows the reverse. His complaint compultion is too weird for me (sorry but I think he craves chaos on 'fringe theory'). I've better things to do. bye.!!! Gongwool (talk) 07:15, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Admins, experienced users. What do you suggest? SmithBlue (talk) 07:23, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

The real problem

• SmithBlue (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

SmithBlue joined Wikipedia in 2007. Up to the end of 2008 xe was reasonably active, but with a number of edits related to the OPV AIDS hypothesis, a refuted AIDS origin hypothesis promoted by Edward Hooper and latterly supported by Brian Martin (the locus of dispute toady). Example edits: [82], [83], [84].

Then, after a lengthy absence, SmithBlue returned with all guns blazing on Feb 9 2016, with this ANI report on a dispute where xe had no apparent prior involvement at all (unless xe was using an alternate account?). There's also this, linking a polemical "review" of our article on the OPV AIDS hypothesis on a crank alt-med website.

As far as I can see, SmithBlue's major beef is with the fact that the OPV AIDS hypothesis is considered refuted. From xyr edits, xe appears to consider it rejected and suppressed, not refuted. In fact, the sources show it to be refuted by robust evidence including DNA analysis.

Addendum: In pushing for a less dismissive treatment of this refuted hypothesis, SmithBlue has started six separate sections of discussion on Talk:Brian Martin (social scientist), five of them within a single 24 hour period. He appears to eblieve that consensus necessarily means that he must agree ([85]). This is, obviously, false: consensus does not mean unanimity, and editors are fully entitled to ignore stonewalling. SmithBlue is making large numbers of rapid-fire demands on the Talk page (e.g. this series: [86]) without allowing adequate time for others to respond. He seems, in short, to be showing all the classic signs of being here to Right Great Wrongs. His wrongteous anger is clearly getting the better of him.

A review of SmithBlue's edits shows a determination to present The Truth™ about the OPV-AIDS hypothesis - an idea first published in that well-known medical journal Rolling Stone and primarily promoted by Edward Hooper, a journalist with no known medical qualifications, which has been refuted by phylogenetic and molecular biological studies. The word refuted here is used in its correct technical sense, ref Nature. This hypothesis has been exploited by anti-vaccination activists and has played a part in preventing the final eradication of poliomyelitis. Not just nonsense, then, but deadly nonsense - so quite high stakes as far as the reliability of Wikipedia goes.

I issued a DS notice: [87].

I believe that editors of the Brian Martin article are losing patience with rebutting SmithBlue's querulous demands. This seems to me to be WP:BOOMERANG territory. Guy (Help!) 09:06, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for turning up Guy. Uninvolved admins - yes Guy is a very involved admin at WP:Brian Martin - please check;

• this diff[88] for the BLP Brian Martin that compares from immediately prior to Guy's first edit there with the article just prior to me arriving with all guns blazing.
• This diff [89] which is the result of a cleanup by respected Wikipedians User:Darouet, User:Drmies, User:DGG, User:EverGreenFir & User:Bilby. Due, I understand, to my flagging the BLP vios and Disruptive Editing.
• Guy protests the mass removal of material. And bilby responds :Hi! The short version is that there were a pile of BLP violations in the article - claims not supported by sources, sources being incorrectly used to create false claims, and issues around due weight. ...[90] Pure magic.

In light of Guy's involvement in turning BLP WP:Brian Martin into an attack piece and his defence of it when I tried BLPN and AN/I I suggest that Guy's actions at BLP Briann Martin make him a subject of this ANI as well. Please bear that in mind when you read his attempts to portray me as disruptive. I think it would be helpful to ask User:Darouet, User:Drmies, User:DGG, User:EvergreenFir & User:Bilby for their views on the state of the article when they arrived. SmithBlue (talk) 09:37, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

I am certainly involved in the Martin article, though more as a result of his sponsorship of an antivax PhD that fails even the most basic tests of academic rigour. Now you need to read WP:NOTTHEM. Guy (Help!) 09:42, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

The reasons you were active on Brian Martin are not why I am here. I am here in large part because of your editing conduct on WP:Brian Martin. SmithBlue (talk) 09:49, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

I see that he's got his guns blazing from you too Guy (Help!), that's because you are also believe in WP:fringe policy. The offender's aim is to scare off any person who is not a pro-OPVAIDS or pro-Vax-Autism link fringe theorist, and his badgering seems to be working well. He's put in about 3 or 4 complaints about this article and seem to have failed, he won't give up. I asked him some time back to leave me alone as I knew he was "trouble" and he's done the exact opposite, finally putting in this ridiculous complaint on my behalf just to try and have an argumentative debate with me. Yep, he's trouble to you, me or any person who may support of WP:fringe policy. Can he be banned from this and any other article discussing fringe theory and fringe theory scientific correction issues? I don't know how such works. Gongwool (talk) 10:53, 18 March 2016 (UTC) Gongwool (talk) 11:01, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Comment There's obviously an element of content disputation here; but tbh User:Gongwool does also seem to have a somewhat unpolished attitude towards collegiality. _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 11:27, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Maybe, but he's been getting along OK with Bilby and they have been collaborating well enough to improve the articles. Gongwool should be aware that it's not really necessary to poke SmithBlue with a sharp stick, xe looks like xe is quite capable of digging xyr own grave unaided. Guy (Help!) 12:05, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi and JzG, I don't admit to being too polished or experienced (unless that's a crime), but all understood and heard. Then again none of us asked for this complaint to be here, it's designed to be somewhat of a distraction, one thinks. Gongwool (talk) 12:32, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

No, SmithBlue, you are here because you want to recruit support in your attempts to push fringe content into the article, when you are failing to gain any traction at all on the article's Talk page. That much is obvious from your statement of the dispute: you want to run the opposition out of town. It's not going to work because the edits you propose are not supported by policy. It's hardly a surprise, given your very limited experience of Wikipedia. However, the problem is not with "everybody else", it's with your unwillingness to heed consensus and apparent attempts to portray a refuted antivax trope as a valid but suppressed theory. It's not suppressed, it's refuted, as our article clearly shows. The science has actually become more settled since you originally tried this. Wikipedia is not the place to present anti-vaccination tropes as anything other than the dangerous bullshit they are. This is by design. Guy (Help!) 12:18, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Canvassing

WP:CANVASS and WP:NPA in one hit, good job. See [91]. Incidentally, SmithBlue, this set ([92], [93], [94], [95]) is unnecessary since the pings you already included will have alerted these good people. Guy (Help!) 12:29, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

WTF? This complainant knows no boundaries. Don't know whether to laugh or cry. Gongwool (talk) 12:46, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

I asked explicitly about contacting the admins who cleaned up the BLP. And was told that, as long as I didn't coach them, it would be OK. Do you disagree with the advise I got from Help Desk Chat? Do you object to 5 Wikipedians who cleaned up the BLP presenting their views?SmithBlue (talk) 12:36, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

There are two parts to my statement above. The first is that your post to Seabreezes1 was unambiguously inappropriate (albeit that it shows very clearly your failure to comprehend why your edits are rejected). The second was that the other posts to Talk pages were unnecessary since they will already be aware through your mentioning them here; writing on this page is in any case going firther than contacting those admins and is instead contacting the entire admin community. I can't comment on the claim you make about Help Desk anyway, since the last posting by you to Help Desk I can find was in 2008: [96] and was about something else entirely. And anybody who's seen my talk page will know I have no problem at all with involving any other admins, especially DGG, or indeed Drmies, both of whom I hold in high regard. Guy (Help!) 13:04, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Smokescreen

The attempt, by Guy, to portray me as attempting "to push fringe content" has a major flaw.

• I have not attempted to push fringe content.

Even a quick inspection of any diff put forward will show that I am a stickler for WP policy and guidelines around pseudoscience and just about everything. WP:Baby Formula - maybe I messed up there 8 years ago and let nonsourced material remain? My goal, (was it 8 years ago when I put forward those science academic publication sources?), was to have the topic portrayed exactly in line with WP policy and guidelines. I always discussed and sought consensus. And still do. Hence this AN/I. What lies behind this smokescreen of Guy's?
User conduct in the flicking of a BLP into an attack piece.
Here again are the diffs showing the arc of the BLP through the Guy, Gongwool and Jewjoo period[97] and out the other side[98].

• Guy actively defended the BLP violations on the BLPN I started in an attempt to get the BLP vios addressed. [[99]]

I've been watching things unfold with the Brian Martin (professor) article, and wrote this a day or two ago, and hope it helps... This article is quite derogatory about Martin himself, and his work, yet this is not based on strong evidence. It seems to be mainly based on slanted views of a WP:SPA editor. I would think the article, and Talk page, contravene WP:BLP. More clarification and context on Martin's publishing record is needed to better examine this situation, but details of Martin's key publications have been removed from the page several times: [33], [34]. Despite what is being said in this WP article, Martin has published many peer-reviewed journal articles. But, yes, he does publish widely in a diverse range of publication outlets, as many academics do. The article is portraying Martin as an activist, but to me he is just an "interdisciplinary academic" working in the area of "science and technology studies (STS)." He is a full professor employed full-time at a major university. There is an amazing amount of criticism of Martin in the second paragraph of the article, relating to Michael Primero, Andrew Wakefield, and Judith Wilyman. Yet, material about Martins' STS professorial colleagues, Mark Diesendorf, Ian Lowe and Jim Falk has been removed from the article with little discussion. Johnfos (talk) 22:45, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Negative, yes, but not inaccurate. He has a history of misidentifying cranks as whistleblowers, and his supervision of the Wilyman PhD calls into question his fitness to supervise further PhDs, as that document used confirmation bias and conspiracist thinking in place of actual evidence. Guy (Help!) 23:00, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

• Guy actively defended the BLP violations on the ANI that I started (Note the smokescreening) [[100]].

The article is being actively edited and the only material identified as an inaccurate representation of the sources has been fixed. Martin is the subject of legitimate and well-sourced criticism for his support of a PhD that failed every conceivable test of valid research work, that is not our problem to fix. I note that much of your history relates to defending Hooper's discredited advocacy of the OPV-AIDS hypothesis, a common anti-vax trope. I suspect that the "inaccuracy" you identify may in fact be accuracy that you just don't like. Guy (Help!) 09:02, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

• On WP:Brian Martin, two edits clearly summed as BLP issues with existing discusions on Talk;

15:29, 4 February 2016‎ 124.171.109.96 (talk)‎ . . (6,361 bytes) (-927)‎ . . (BLP issue: rem inaccurate reflection of source. see Talk) [[101]] &
16:14, 4 February 2016‎ 124.171.109.96 (talk)‎ . . (6,558 bytes) (-185)‎ . . (rem "published by A rather than B" from lede. BLP, OR see Talk) [[102]]
Guy claims whitewashing & reverts:
22:55, 4 February 2016‎ JzG (talk | contribs)‎ . . (7,288 bytes) (+730)‎ . . (Reverted 4 edits by 124.171.109.96 (talk): Revert whitewashing. Please discuss on Talk efore removing material. (TW))
And what was Guy defending?
Here again is Bilby's reply [[103]] "... there were a pile of BLP violations in the article - claims not supported by sources, sources being incorrectly used to create false claims, ..."
SmithBlue (talk) 14:36, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Possible shared account

User:MrFancyBro has referred to themselves with the pronoun 'we' several times. Now, I do not believe that they intend to use the imperial we, so I believe that this strongly implies shared usage. This has occurred twice on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alex Kehr (2nd nomination), regarding the AfD of an article that they created, and here are the diffs: [104] and [105]. Dschslava (talk) 06:17, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

COI editors often use "we". Sometimes, for example, it's the subject of the article trying to make it less obvious. Or an attempt to make it look as if more than one person thinks the subject should have an article and are "consulting" with each other to assemble the material. It doesn't necessarily mean that the account is literally shared. I notice that this article sprang fully formed complete with properly formatted references and infobox [106] from a "new editor" on their very first edit to Wikipedia which always rings alarm bells. But... how was a new editor able to create an article within 2 days of registering an account and no previous edits? I thought it took more than that to have Autoconfirmed status. Voceditenore (talk) 10:49, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

As far as I am aware all new users can create pages straight away. (Createpages?) Autoconfirmed allows revisions to be automatically accepted. Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:49, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

From the link you posted: "Users who edit through an account they have registered may immediately create pages in any namespace (except the MediaWiki namespace, and limited to eight per minute)." Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:51, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Ah, thank you Only in death does duty end. Interesting, because in my experience, paid editors invariably wait four days and in the interim make 10 trivial edits to other articles to get autoconfirmed before "getting down to business". Perhaps it's because they're planning to upload a company logo simultaneously with creating the article. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 11:58, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

User:Davidzamani

This user has created a hoax page at Barry S White and removed the CSD tag. I have re-tagged it but can someone block him until this is over? Btw, the photo is also a hoax composite Gbawden (talk) 11:46, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Article deleted, user indefblocked as vandalism-only account.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:53, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Fake accident report

Fake accident report:[107] I have been in no accident of any kind and me and my Subaru are just fine. --Guy Macon (talk) 13:03, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Good thing, too, considering this post:[108] (smile) --Guy Macon (talk) 13:15, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

As someone who has never been vaccinated, I have yet to die of Diphtheria... Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:35, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Guy Macon - Thanks for letting us know. I wonder what interactions that the person has had with you here before... ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 14:23, 18 March 2016 (UTC)