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Maternal Ancestry

Shifting this paragraph, which is cited to a broken or non-existing link, to this page until it can be recited to a good source.

Tolkien's maternal grandparents, John and Edith Jane Suffield, lived in Birmingham and owned a shop in the city centre. The Suffield family had run various businesses out of the same building, called Lamb House, since the early 19th century. From 1812 Tolkien's great-great-grandfather William Suffield had a book and stationery shop there; from 1826 Tolkien's great-grandfather, also named John Suffield, had a drapery and hosiery business there.^[1]

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjhonson (talk • contribs) 17:16, 3 December 2013‎ (UTC)[reply]

^ Old Lamb House, Bull Street, Archives and Heritage Service, Birmingham City Council. Updated 12 January 2009. Retrieved on 27 April 2009. Archived at Wayback Machine.

Suggestion that the main photo for this article should be of Tolken as an author, not as a soldier.

A photo that better represents Tolken as an author or at least as a more well-known figure should be found for the head of this article. The World War II photo appears to be the only profile photo on the page. As it stands, due to the military photo, someone with no previous knowledge of Tolken would likely have the first impression of a life where war was the most significant and notable factor, and the photo may suggest to someone only slightly familiar with Tolken as an author, that his experience of war played a key role in his writing. Contrarily, as this very article asserts, Tolken "indignantly declared that those who searched his works for parallels to the Second World War were entirely mistaken". How significant a role World War II played in Tolken's entire life is questionable at best. Anyway, surely it's best to have a photo of the person in full expression of their talents. I believe more appropriate alternative photos are available, such as the main profile photo on the Greek version of this page. The Nitty Gritty (talk) 05:51, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We've had this discussion a few times, the photo (from World War 1 not Word War 2) is out of copyright and therefore free to use. Any other picture will still be under copyright, and as we have a freely available one we cannot use it WP:FREER GimliDotNet^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 06:24, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The image of Tolkien used in the Greek article is an obvious copyright violation, and I have nominated it for deletion. BabelStone (talk) 11:08, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but the policy states that the "equivalent" content have the "same effect." Is it really fair to say that an image of Tolkien from his youth, which is not the picture of the author most would have in mind when looking for an encyclopedic source, is "equivalent" to a picture of the author as he is overwhelmingly portrayed in copyrighted works (i.e., as an older man)? KFan II (talk) 16:54, 20 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As a compromise I suggest we re-add the image of Tolkien's bust to the infobox. While one may speculate about the truthfulness and quality of the 3d artwork, the photograph itself is free at least and the bust portrays the elder Tolkien as he is most likely remembered. De728631 (talk) 20:26, 20 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I think the bust image is the least satisfactory option - poor photo and not the man himself. If a non-free older Tolkien photo is not allowed then the WW1 image is the least worst option of the two. Deagol2 (talk) 21:25, 20 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Grandparents? Great-grandparents?

The "Family origins" section includes a photo of a headstone in Bunhill Fields, London, purportedly for William Shrubsole and Tolkien's grandparents. The claim is also made on the Bunhill Fields page. The inscription (easily legible if you enlarge the image) shows it to be for Shrubsole (no problem there), John Benjamin Tolkien, d. 1819 aged 66 (i.e. born c.1753) and his wife Mary, d. 1837 aged 91 (i.e. born c.1746). JRR's grandparents were John Benjamin Tolkien and Mary Jane Stow, who married in Birmingham in 1856 (see Tolkien family), so it's clearly not them. Possibly great-grandparents? Great-great-grandparents? Or more probably completely unrelated, as it's in the wrong part of the country. The claim has been widely repeated from wikipedia, but the only discussion I can immediately find is this inconclusive thread, with a vague (and clearly irrelevant) suggestion that it might be an uncle. Does anyone know anything more? GrindtXX (talk) 00:39, 25 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No response to this. The "grandparents" claim is certainly wrong, so I'm deleting the image here and the claim from the Bunhill Fields and the William Shrubsole pages. GrindtXX (talk) 21:44, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Inspiration for Middle-earth?

No time to work on this right now, but thought some other enterprising editor might see whether this CNN story contains information that mnight be useful here: WWI site offers hints of J.R.R. Tolkien General Ization ^Talk 17:44, 22 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"See also" section is empty.

"See also" section is empty. --183.189.129.121 (talk) 11:44, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 September 2015

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Typo. Under the subheading "Second World War" the third line says "a record of his traning was found" which should be spelled "training." 204.61.30.119 (talk) 17:47, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed Thanks. General Ization ^Talk 18:04, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"...in the portrayal of the forced "industrialization" of the Shire..."

What does that mean? Middle Earth including the Shire is medieval, there is no "industrialization". --212.186.0.108 (talk) 21:49, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Saruman uses engines and great furnaces, he builds bigger and more "efficient" mills etc. That is what it is referring to. It's described in the Scouring of the Shire - a move away from self succificency to industrial construction. GimliDotNet (talk) 05:23, 14 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I see, thank you, Gimli! Then it has to be expressed more precisely in the article. --212.186.0.108 (talk) 16:42, 14 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Memorials and eponymy section is cluttered and poorly structured

The list of things, places, and organisms named after Tolkien or his characters at J. R. R. Tolkien#Memorials is getting unwieldy, and IMHO not on par with Featured Article standards. Choppy paragraphs with no or little connection between is bad writing, and I fear without attention the list may stray into further, trivial territory ("in popular culture...", etc.). Perhaps a new article or list is in order that discusses his legacy of eponymy, similar to List of things named after Charles Darwin. I am familiar with several scientific names derived from Tolkien's characters: including Gollum (genus), Smeagol (gastropod), Iandumoema smeagol, and Leucothoe tolkieni for the author himself. Lest it be thought that compiling such names is only fancruft, I've found some popular press articles^[1] and at least one scholarly secondary source^[2] that discusses Tolkein's influence on scientific nomenclature, which helps establish notability as well as article structure. There are also eponymous species listed here (not really a reliable source though), and the Commons category Things named after J. R. R. Tolkien and his works. An alternative to splitting off a new article would be to improve the existing section to FA criteria, in which case I think it would be good to have thematic paragraphs (e.g. one about species, one about geographic features, one about events, and miscellaneous) and the pruning of the least-relevant and/or unsourced trivia. Thoughts? --Animalparty! (talk) 04:03, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed it is a mess. Personally I think it is borderline trivia and should either be deleted or moved out elsewhere. Deagol2 (talk) 10:19, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Gentlemen, I have started a draft page in my userspace. Please feel free to contribute here. De728631 (talk) 20:00, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Beck, Julie (May 3, 2015). "Science's Love Affair with The Lord of the Rings". The Atlantic.
^ Larsen, Kristine (2007). "SAURON, Mount Doom, and Elvish Moths: The Influence of Tolkien on Modern Science". Tolkien Studies. 4 (1): 223–234. doi:10.1353/tks.2007.0024.

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Family Origin

In the section family origin it is written that accordind to "More prosaic" members of the family said that the Tolkiens had arrived in England in 1756, as refugees from Frederick the Great's invasion of the Electorate of Saxony during the Seven Years' War. As source are pages 18.19 in the biography mentioned.

However most people with the name Tolkien or Tolkiehn are living in Lower Saxony and Hamburg today. So did Tolkien s family really migrated from the Electorate Saxony or maybe from the part of Germany, who is called Lower Saxony? Could it be possible that Tolkien's ancestor confused Lower Saxony and the Electorate Saxony (Upper Saxony) while telling the story of the familiy's migration? Or did the family move from Lower Saxony to Upper Saxony before migating? Hanover an Brunswick were also Belligerents in the Seven Years War, but with in the coaliation of Great Britian attacking the Elctorate of Saxony, being part of the coaliaion of France.--Flaverius (talk) 10:22, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The German state of Lower Saxony (Niedersachsen) was created in 1946, so Tolkien's ancestors didn't even know this name. Also the [i:] sound in "Tolkien" instead of standard High German [y] like in "tollkühn" would be typical of upper Saxon dialect. Anyhow, the shift of the contempary Tolkie(h)ns from what is now the state of Saxony to Lower Saxony might as well have occured as a result of World War II when many Germans fled from the approaching Soviet Army. I don't know if this has ever been researched reliably and anything else would be speculation. De728631 (talk) 18:45, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The i in Tolkien problalbyindicatesUpper Saxony, tats true. It is just strange that all Tolkiens moed from UpperSaxony to Lower Saxony. So there are probably no sources, which could be usedto find out how all Tolkien moved awa from Upper Saxony.--Flaverius (talk) 12:13, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, there are some Tollkiens (with double L) left in Upper Saxony and Thuringia [1], but I just added a reference to the article that Tolkien's own hypothesis has not been proven so far. De728631 (talk) 21:48, 14 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Vimy Ridge

According to the article, "On 7 June, Tolkien was informed that he had been assigned as a signals officer to the 11th (Service) Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers, which had been decimated by heavy fighting at the Battle of Vimy Ridge." The 7 June is in 1916, but the Battle of Vimy Ridge didn't take place until the following year. Does anyone know if this refers to a different battle? Blotto adrift (talk) 15:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Picture

Why a picture of him in his early 20's? I thought I had the wrong article!2001:558:6012:5A:565:ABEA:FCDE:5BBD (talk) 04:28, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Old Lamb House, Bull Street, Archives and Heritage Service, Birmingham City Council. Updated 12 January 2009. Retrieved on 27 April 2009. Archived at Wayback Machine.

[2] Beck, Julie (May 3, 2015). "Science's Love Affair with The Lord of the Rings". The Atlantic.

[3] Larsen, Kristine (2007). "SAURON, Mount Doom, and Elvish Moths: The Influence of Tolkien on Modern Science". Tolkien Studies. 4 (1): 223–234. doi:10.1353/tks.2007.0024.

[1]

[1]

[2]

@@ Line 128: / Line 128: @@
 == Vimy Ridge ==
 According to the article, "On 7 June, Tolkien was informed that he had been assigned as a signals officer to the 11th (Service) Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers, which had been decimated by heavy fighting at the Battle of Vimy Ridge." The 7 June is in 1916, but the [[Battle of Vimy Ridge]] didn't take place until the following year. Does anyone know if this refers to a different battle? [[User:Blotto adrift|Blotto adrift]] ([[User talk:Blotto adrift|talk]]) 15:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
+== Picture ==
+Why a picture of him in his early 20's? I thought I had the wrong article![[Special:Contributions/2001:558:6012:5A:565:ABEA:FCDE:5BBD|2001:558:6012:5A:565:ABEA:FCDE:5BBD]] ([[User talk:2001:558:6012:5A:565:ABEA:FCDE:5BBD|talk]]) 04:28, 10 April 2016 (UTC)