Talk:United Kingdom

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Debt

Total UK government debt rose quickly from 44.4% of GDP in 2007 to 82.9% of GDP in 2011, then increased more slowly to 87.5% of GDP in 2015.[245][246]

This is factually incorrect. This is just the government's borrowing.

External Debt: The comments re the UK's external debt are misleadingly one-sided and ignore the fact that the UK is also one of the world's largest creditors. Its "Net International Investment Position (the sum of its external borrowing and loans) is modestly negative and very much in the middle of the global rankings.

For example, it owed 5,010 bn in pensions with no assets [unfunded] as of 2010.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171766_263808.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.194.83.28 (talk • contribs) 16:37, 5 January 2016‎ (UTC)beauty power

Leaving the EU is not a certainty

At least two points in text imply that leaving the EU is a certainty (the caption of the EU photo; and footnote 10).

I think this is not factual, as the referendum was not binding; and the politicians expressed intentions are just that; expressed intentions; they are also not binding.

Even if article 50 were to be invoked, it would still not be certain that the UK would leave the EU, as the invocation can (potentially) be retracted (src: Prof. Michael Dougan).

We will only know for sure when, and if, the UK is no longer an official member of the EU.

Furthermore the caption of the EU photo says that the UK was the first country to leave the EU. This is false, as the UK has not left. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.7.146.152 (talk) 21:58, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

There is a tendency for editors to jump the gun. I've adjusted the caption for the photo, and am open to suggestions for rewording footnote 10. There's no doubt it's what the population has voted to do, and is likely to do, so it's worth a mention somehow. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 23:01, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

I have attempted to clarify the footnote as follows: In the referendum of 23 June 2016, a majority voted for the UK to withdraw from the EU, but the process and date for Brexit have yet to be determined. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:39, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2016

"UK" redirects here.

31.52.4.146 (talk) 09:08, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

It does, indeed, and clearly states "(Redirected from UK)" on the third line if you arrive here that way.
However, that is not a semi-protected edit request - Arjayay (talk) 09:18, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Opening sentence

Another editor is seeking to overturn the consensus reached in 2013 - here - on the wording of the opening sentence. I have reverted once, as has another editor, but it needs to be discussed here. Thoughts? Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:33, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Description of the United Kingdom in the first paragraph

This is the first time I have touched this page, so I am not aware of any previous discussions on the lead or any section of it.

We have... "Lying off the northwestern coast of the European mainland, it includes the island of Great Britain (the name of which is also loosely applied to the whole country), the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland, and many smaller islands." [My italics]

I have learnt to consider (carefully) the use of parentheses in copy writing, their necessity and whether their content could be better moved elsewhere. In the quoted sentence, (1) Precisely which country is referred to: Great Britain is not a country, the United Kingdom is not a country? (2) Why should we have mention of a "loose application" of the name, when our definitions should define accurately and concisely? (3) Could the statement in parentheses be re-stated elsewhere, if not removed completely? If we are starting by defining the geographical extent of the United Kingdom , then I suggest "Lying off the north-western coast of the European mainland, it includes the island of Great Britain, the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland, and many smaller islands." says all that is necessary and sufficient.

I presume northwestern was the result of consensus, but I prefer north-western, liked also by my Oxford Dictionary. I suggest that northwestern is American English. Which part of the world is this article about?

Loose definition is always coming into public usage. Accurate definition seems to be most important in all the sciences, including geography, and actually less important in some fields where feelings come more into consideration, for example the arts and politics. Sadly there must be many who do not know the difference between Britain, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, and here there has to be precision.

I would like to thank the editor who reverted by previous edit. I included political areas when the subject was geographical. P0mbal (talk) 16:29, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

I have no objection in principle to removing the statement in parentheses and placing it elsewhere. In some ways, the situation is analogous to the Netherlands, where we have a separate sentence at the end of the opening paragraph: 'The name Holland is also frequently used to refer informally to the whole of the country of the Netherlands.' Similarly, the name Great Britain is sometimes used informally to refer to the United Kingdom as a whole - and officially it is deemed "incorrect" (but "Britain" is correct). There is confusion over the terminology used - often simply to give variety in the use of words without punctilious attention to accuracy, as here for example - but we should try to be accurate. I favour including a hyphen in "north-western", per MOS:COMPASS. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:01, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

I think the current wording concisely clarifies the usage of "Great Britain". When the national Olympic team is named "Great Britain", and American politicians are calling this country "Great Britain" almost exclusively, it cannot be ignored. I also don't see how it is incorrect, considering "Britain" is just an abbreviate form of "Great Britain". "Britain" is also more common when referring to the island. "Great Britain" has largely become an international brand name for the country, hence it's use for the Olympic team, Visit Britain, and the "Britain is Great" campaign. Not clarifying this on the first instance of "Great Britain" might lead the reader to conclude that those usages are not referring to the whole country. I am open to other proposals on how to deal with this, but I certainly oppose outright removal. Rob984 (talk) 11:32, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Rob984 - Umm.... multiple previous discussions here (and on other pages) over several years have concluded, I believe, that there is a notable difference between the use of "Britain" - which is used officially as a short form for UK - and "Great Britain" - which is not used as an official short form for UK except in some specific sporting contexts, but is widely used unofficially in other countries. In other words, "Britain" is not "just an abbreviate form of "Great Britain"", they are used differently. It doesn't assist in resolving confusion by claiming that uses like Visit Britain (which covers Northern Ireland) are examples of the use of "Great Britain"!! Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:53, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Visit Britain (see the website) is an example of the term "Great Britain" being used interchangeable with "Britain". "Britain" is an abbreviate form of "Great Britain". Visit Britain, and the Britain is Great campaign, both use "Great Britain" as a brand name for the whole country. UK Trade & Investment using the term "Great Britain" is not exactly unofficial. Also officials in other country's referring to the country as "Great Britain"... unofficial? The overwhelming preference in the UK is not to refer to the country as "Great Britain", official or otherwise. Likewise, nobody refers to the country the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". I accept the Government intentionally avoids using the term "Great Britain", but I don't think the reasoning is as simple as it being considered incorrect. They have never felt the need to correct their American counter-parts. My guess is it is avoided as it is considered an archaism and now sounds overly patriotic. In the past, it was quite common for UK officials to refer to the country as "Great Britain". Rob984 (talk) 12:08, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

We have an article - Terminology of the British Isles - where all these issues were discussed at great length and, I thought, resolved a few years ago. At the very least, this article needs to be consistent with that article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:21, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't see much on that article discussing this issue. Other than "'Great Britain' is sometimes used as a short form, and is the name used by the UK in some international organisations" and "The UK competes as Great Britain at the Olympic Games". Also I notice the apparent usage of "Great Britain" to refer England, Scotland and Wales, politically, is lacking reference. For the most part, this is referred to as "England, Scotland and Wales" (or similar), or even "Britain" (for example by the British Transport Police). Rob984 (talk) 13:07, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Hey ho..... Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:05, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I've changed "northwestern" to "north-western" per MOS:COMPASS. The outstanding question seems to be whether or not to leave the existing statement in parentheses, or to move it to a separate sentence (either as the immediately following sentence, or at the end of the paragraph). A sentence that would do that without changing the existing meaning would be something like: 'The name Great Britain is sometimes used informally to refer to the United Kingdom as a whole'. Other editors' views are welcome. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:52, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

UK Article Devolved Administrations

States Peter Robinson is First Minister he is Not He Retired after a Heart Attack It is now Arlene Foster — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.102.224 (talk) 14:06, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you - now  Done. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:19, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Provisional Government of Ireland (1922)

Discussion about what legal description of UK-devolved provisional government in Dublin was back in 1922. Marginal topic; knowledgable editors welcome! Frenchmalawi (talk) 00:10, 8 October 2016 (UTC)