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:And of course ideas do not become true by "millions" believing in them. See [[argumentum ad populum]]. We rely on reliable sources, not on what an uninformed mob thinks. If you find a reliable source that confirms your opinion, please name it. --[[User:Hob Gadling|Hob Gadling]] ([[User talk:Hob Gadling|talk]]) 15:21, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
:And of course ideas do not become true by "millions" believing in them. See [[argumentum ad populum]]. We rely on reliable sources, not on what an uninformed mob thinks. If you find a reliable source that confirms your opinion, please name it. --[[User:Hob Gadling|Hob Gadling]] ([[User talk:Hob Gadling|talk]]) 15:21, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
: [[User:ThomasMcLeod|ThomasMcLeod]], I see that you're new here so let me assist you in how Wikipedia works. If you can find anything in the article here which is inaccurate or mistaken, do let other editors know specifics about what is wrong here in the Talk: page so that the article may be corrected. Also new comments in Talk: are typically appended to the page or to sections, they're not added at the top of the page. Thanks. [[User:Damotclese|Damotclese]] ([[User talk:Damotclese|talk]]) 15:28, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
: [[User:ThomasMcLeod|ThomasMcLeod]], I see that you're new here so let me assist you in how Wikipedia works. If you can find anything in the article here which is inaccurate or mistaken, do let other editors know specifics about what is wrong here in the Talk: page so that the article may be corrected. Also new comments in Talk: are typically appended to the page or to sections, they're not added at the top of the page. Thanks. [[User:Damotclese|Damotclese]] ([[User talk:Damotclese|talk]]) 15:28, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
::Haha Hob Gadling, that's a joke, right? NO, it is not. The titling is propagandistic hate speech designed to denigrate a whole sub-culture of people around the world so as to implement forced vaccination without informed consent, which is against internationally recognized human rights. Reliable sources, hahaha. Tell me please, was [[Joseph Goebbels]] a reliable source on the question of how to characterize Jewish culture? If the answer is no, than why to you choose to use as a "reliable" sources whose mission is to destroy the people and the culture that is the subject of the article?

Revision as of 09:33, 26 September 2017

hoax

Can we redirect this page to 'MMR Vaccine hoax' ? Calling it a controversy is being generous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.5.246.66 (talk) 23:00, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

While I have to agree that it's silly that vaccines are being pointed at for "autism" (Autism doesn't make you retarded...), renaming it a "hoax" would be a very noticable show of bias. --Yukari Yakumo (talk) 23:04, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"Hoax" is the wrong word because Wakefield didn't do it for fun. "Fraud" is the right word. --Hob Gadling (talk) 07:31, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

MMR vaccine is still controversial. It's misleading for Wiki to suggest otherwise. Maybe Wiki editors tend towards the conservative or establishment view but it is wrong to suggest that view is the only rational one. psic88 15:07, 23 August 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Psic88 (talk • contribs)

It's only a controversy among conspiracy believers, people with mental difficulties, there is no controversy among scientists. Damotclese (talk) 15:15, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Damotclese:@Psic88: Damotclese, Please do not imply that another user has mental difficulties, WP:NPA. Psic88, wikipedia is based on reliable sources per WP:RS, what source do you have to say that the vaccine is still controversial? Tornado chaser (talk) 15:19, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
People who suffer from False_memory_syndrome are suffering mental problems. You might want to go research what causes people to have false memories implanted as well as review the extant research in how the spectrum of mental difficulties people who suffer from the affliction harbor. FMS and the McMartin_preschool_trial was something I was involved with during the McMartin fiasco as part of the debunking of numerous false memories implanted in the children by adults with serious mental problems, including false memories where children were eventually led to honestly believe that they had been taken to Peru through underground tunnels, ritually raped, murdered, and eaten, and then were ritually brought back to life, returned to the Preschool in time for their parents to pick them up in the morning. So I have extensive background in the psychological difficulties of people who suffer from FMS.
Also, vaccinations causing autism is a conspiracy belief harbored by individuals with mental difficulties, just as are so-called Sandy Hook Truthers, false memory implantation via mass media manipulation of weak minds is a phenomena resulting in False Memory Syndrome, as is "Pizzagate" and Flat Earth beliefs as well as belief in "Chemtrails", all of which are harbored by people with mental difficulties stemming from false memory implantation. Damotclese (talk) 15:48, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Damotclese: I didn't say mental issues can't cause false beliefs, I said it is a personal attack to say someone must have "mental difficulties" because they argue something counter to scientific consensus, you can be wrong without being mentally ill. Tornado chaser (talk) 18:08, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You have strange ideas about what constitutes a "personal attack." Mental illness is not a joke, and if you think that the mental health profession covering people with mental difficulties are some how "attacking" their patients, then you have a behavioral problem. That's the last time I will discuss this issue with you. Damotclese (talk) 15:19, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Damotclese: I never said mental health professionals are attacking there patients, I said attempting to diagnose another editor (not a patient) as having a mental problem is not appropriate, especially when you use that diagnosis to discredit them, as you have done with me and Psic88. Tornado chaser (talk) 16:04, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The CDC Whistleblower

I can't find any information on the page about the CDC whistleblower and the associated findings as presented in the "documentary" Vaxxed. This seems like new information that would definitely have it's place in the "Media" section, and perhaps elsewhere too.

Anyone knows if there has been a rigorous external review of what is presented in the film? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jul059 (talk • contribs) 22:39, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's a lie. --Hob Gadling (talk) 07:33, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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POV Tag

I'd just like to say that you need to speak to Andrew Wakefield himself or someone in order to make this article unbiased. Animal28 (talk) 14:34, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is well established that his article was fraudulent and has caused a great deal of harm. I don't need to talk to the river to know it is wet. The Tag has been discussed multiple time so it goes. Thank you. VVikingTalkEdits 15:03, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The extant article's contents have been discussed, vetted, refined, discussed again, over and over and over, there is nothing which has not been hashed out repeatedly over the years and nothing in the extant article violates WP:NPOV. Editors who find this article and don't agree with the referenced, cited, vetted content should examine the archived Talk:: page content if they find something they believe to be WP:NPOV, and they will find that whatever they're feeling is inaccurate or "unfair" has already been discussed endlessly. Damotclese (talk) 15:18, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Do we need to speak to Bernie Madoff and present his point of view credulously, in order to write a neutral and accurate article on the collapse of his Ponzi scheme? MastCell Talk 16:50, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fake news

This article is so obviously biased that it falls into the fake news category. Hundreds of thousands of people around the world know Wakefield's work and consider him a hero who is standing up to a corrupt medical system that considers vaccine induced neurological damage in 2 percent of population a cost of doing business. And it's not just this article. It is clear when the editors of Wikipedia collectively label the worldwide vaccine safety movement, that includes scientists, medical practitioners and literally millions of people, a "Conspiracy Theory," that the publication is taking sides. "Conspiracy Theory" is simply an ad hominem attack and has no place a serious reference encyclopedia. The phase conjures up images of a small circle of maladjusted individuals trading speculative hypotheses. 1.6 million people took to the streets to protest government vaccine policy in Italy in the Spring of 2017, and hundreds of thousands more are protesting in France and Germany as I write this. How long can you hope to keep up this charade Wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThomasMcLeod (talk • contribs)

You misunderstand. The anti-vaxxers, those you call "scientists, medical practitioners and literally millions of people", are the people who adhere to the conspiracy theory. They believe that "a small circle of maladjusted individuals" conspire to hide "the truth".
And of course ideas do not become true by "millions" believing in them. See argumentum ad populum. We rely on reliable sources, not on what an uninformed mob thinks. If you find a reliable source that confirms your opinion, please name it. --Hob Gadling (talk) 15:21, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
ThomasMcLeod, I see that you're new here so let me assist you in how Wikipedia works. If you can find anything in the article here which is inaccurate or mistaken, do let other editors know specifics about what is wrong here in the Talk: page so that the article may be corrected. Also new comments in Talk: are typically appended to the page or to sections, they're not added at the top of the page. Thanks. Damotclese (talk) 15:28, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Haha Hob Gadling, that's a joke, right? NO, it is not. The titling is propagandistic hate speech designed to denigrate a whole sub-culture of people around the world so as to implement forced vaccination without informed consent, which is against internationally recognized human rights. Reliable sources, hahaha. Tell me please, was Joseph Goebbels a reliable source on the question of how to characterize Jewish culture? If the answer is no, than why to you choose to use as a "reliable" sources whose mission is to destroy the people and the culture that is the subject of the article?
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