Talk:White-shoe firm

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"New" White shoe firms

I added the section called "New" white shoe firms in hopes of resolving the ongoing discussion here. I think the most productive thing is to get some of these comments on the actually page so that readers can understand the distinction between the historical origins and use of the term versus the current, more laissez-faire, use the term. The fact is that the NY Times and other respected publications use the term to apply to Skadden, Weil and others, so it would be silly for the page not to address that. I think it can be done while fully explaining the history of the original select group and also paying respect to the obstacles that the founders of the newer firms often faced on their paths to success. Epeesi (talk) 01:06, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

This seems sensible. Though we should say that isn't white-shoe associated with those firms that have strong relationships with an old-line bank? or am I imagining this association?, e.g. Shearman with Citibank, Milbank with Chase.

Next question, isn't White & Case white shoe? It should be added.

--Mediterraneo (talk) 02:28, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the section qualifies as original research. --70.23.131.232 (talk) 02:33, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

How on earth is Alston and Bird a "New" White shoe firm? They are based in Atlanta, consistently ranked in the 80s for the top 100 law firms, and don't do work for any of the top Wall Street clients. At least the other "New" White shoe firms can argue that they are as elite as the old white shoe firms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.212.65 (talk) 18:04, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Is Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP an old or a new white show firm, because it is in both list. --89.204.139.74 (talk) 07:44, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Isn't Mayer Brown a white shoe firm? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.235.68.202 (talk) 18:47, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Charmed Circle

As I understood it, the "White Shoe" term was synonymous with the Charmed Circle of Wall Street old genteel firms. This group was generally considered as including the following 7 firms:

Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft; Cravath Swaine & Moore; Davis Polk & Wardwell; Millbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy; Shearman & Sterling; Simpson Thacher & Bartlett; and Sullivan & Cromwell.

White & Case was often included in the group in the same way that Herbert Smith is often regarded as a member of the Magic Circle. However White & Case is considerably younger in its origins then the other Charmed Circle firms. Perhaps it might be worth including a paragraph noting the historical Charmed Circle firms?

Perhaps Choate Hall & Stewart should be added to this list?

I would also suggest adding Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale & Dorr to the list of new firms.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Wholenewlevelofcool (talk • contribs) 14:48, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Would dividing up the law firms by city (e.g. New York, Boston, Washington, etc.) and then by specific groupings (e.g. the Charmed Circle mentioned above) not provide more distilled information. As the other contributors have noted, each of the cities had specific hierarchies and cultures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.57.220 (talk) 03:47, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

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