Talk:Wii/Archive 20

Archives

Requested Move to Nintendo Wii (17th-22nd May 2006 - consensus: Not Moved) Archive 1 (May 2005 - July 2005) Archive 2 (July 2005 - September 2005) Archive 3 (September 2005 - December 2005) Archive 4 (December 2005 - March 2006) Archive 5 (March 2006 - April 2006) Archive 6 (April 2006) Archive 7 (Pre-E3 2006) Archive 8 (E3 2006) Archive 9 (Post E3 2006 up to 20th May 2006) Archive 10 (20th May 2006 - 31st May 2006) Archive 11 (June 2006) Archive 12 (July 2006) Archive 13 (August 2006) Archive 14 (Sept 1st 2006 - Sept 13 2006) Archive 15 (Sept 14th 2006 - Sept 30 2006)

Priority Issue, Full Protection

The page has been fully locked due to constant editing issues over the Critisism section, It's not pretty I know, but in order to access the article for editing again this issue MUST be resolved, I call upon both parties to address their current stance on this issue, your statements must be legitimate and in accordance to the Wiki guidelines, and no name calling either,Dctcool 12:17 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Common Questions & Answers

Please do not start a new section for any of these topics, they have been discussed ad nauseum and the consensus is:

"Wii" vs. "Nintendo Wii"?

It's just "Wii". See the Talk archives (pages 6 thru 10) and the separately archived survey for details.

"Wii" vs. "The Wii"?

Depends on the context you're using it in. Some people prefer to say "Wii" (like a proper noun), others prefer to say the "Wii" (like a common noun). Just don't pick a fight over it -- the Wii article is already mentioned in Wikipedia's Lamest Edit Wars ever.

I know I'm not supposed to bring this up, but the fact is, in normal conversation, no one uses "Wii" as a proper noun. It just doesn't parse. I know Nintendo wants everyone to do it that way, but I think that in a case where common usage conflicts with Nintendo's style guide, to cater to Nintendo's desired usage violates NPOV. MrVoluntarist 13:27, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with MrVoluntarist. The opening sentence of this article should be "The Wii is..." not "Wii is..." You don't see "PlayStation 3 is..." you see "The PlayStation 3 is..." --Tristam 16:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

To that point, I distincly recall that Reggie fellow (CEO of Nintendo of America) using "the Wii" to refer to the console in the latest press conferences and interviews. I can pull up specific examples if need be, but the "drop the the" thing seems to be limited to some silly campaign around E3 when the name was revealed. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 17:32, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

All excellent points. I am going to add the preceding "the" article in the introduction. We should be following proper grammar, not PR campaigns. EDIT: Perhaps I won't after reading the commented out warning in the code. Why are we modifying grammar because Nintendo says so? Sorry guys, it really isn't up to them if "the" precedes Wii. I have no problem with their quirky campaign; I'll be buying a Wii myself on launch date. Can we exercise some greater professionalism here? --Tristam 18:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Nintendo's preferred style does not obligate us to use it, anymore than a company can dictate the pronoun you use to refer to the system. I'd like to hear some more comments from people who support following Nintendo's style. (And, like Tristam, I'm planning to get a Wii, don't accuse me of anti-Nintendo bias.) MrVoluntarist 18:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with MrVoluntarist too. It's common for console names to become not quite genericized, but diluted to the point where they are used as common nouns rather than proper trademark names. I remember mentioning this during the The debate, provoking someone else to suddenly go and remove all the "The"s from just about every videogame console article on here (followed almost as promptly by several reverts). --Stratadrake 15:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

"Wee" (as in urine) ?

No, don't mention it. (Seriously.) We actually took a survey on this question, see archive #14 for details.

Release Date & Price Table

I've made a table with the release date and price for the Wii in it's various regions. It is simpler and easier to read than the previous one. If I've forgotten or omitted anything feel free to add it back in. I've put a copy of it below for reference too;ItIsMe 02:09, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Release date and suggested retail price by region*

Region	Expected pricing at release		Release date
	Release Price	USD Equivalent
Japan	JP¥25,000[1]	$213	December 2 2006
United States	US$249.99[2]	$249.99	November 19 2006
Canada	C$279.99	$250
Mexico	-	-
Eurozone	€249	$314	December 8 2006
United Kingdom	GB£179	$336
Australia	AUD$399	$301	December 7 2006
New Zealand	-	-

* Wii Sports comes packaged with the console in all regions excluding Japan.

The Wii comes out in Mexico on November 19th as well. I don't think they said the price for Mexico though.TJ Spyke 02:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I've edited the table accordingly. ItIsMe 02:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

old or new table?

wikipedian ItIsMe changed the price table on the article. i reverted it because not only was alot of infomation was removed, the old table looked better and fitted better into the article. What do you think? dposse 02:19, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Although I am the person who made the new table (so don't flame me for liking it better) the point of making it was to have a simpler table, without information that has already been stated in the article and to have a slightly larger font and flag images to make it more user-friendly. If anything has been omitted (which would not have been done on purpose) than feel free to add it back in.ItIsMe 02:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Although the accessory prices have already been placed in the article I have updated the new table with them. I've placed it below;ItIsMe 04:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Release date and suggested retail price by region*

Region	Expected pricing at release		Release date	Accessories
	Release Price	USD Equivalent		Wii Remote	Nunchuk	Classic Controller
Japan	JP¥25,000[3]	$213	December 2 2006	¥3,800	¥1,800	¥1,800
United States	US$249.99[4]	$249.99	November 19 2006	$39.99	$19.99	$19.99
Canada	C$279.99	$250		-	-	-
Mexico	-	-		-	-	-
Eurozone	€249	$314	December 8 2006	€39.99	€19.99	€19.99
United Kingdom	GB£179	$336		£29.99	£14.99	£14.99
Australia	AUD$399	$301	December 7 2006	-	-	-
New Zealand	-	-		-	-	-

* Wii Sports comes packaged with the console in all regions excluding Japan.

I like it, I would recommend listing them in the order they release date(meaning US/Can/Mex first, then Japan, etc.) TJ Spyke 04:21, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I've rearranged the table as you recommended but I'll leave the original one in the talk section (just above). ItIsMe 04:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

For the sake of accuracy I think we need to either a) change the title of the table to remove the "sugggested" part, or b) somehow identify the European and UK prices as "estimated" rather than "suggested". "Estimated" is Nintendo's description of them here because in many territories setting or suggesting a resale price is not permitted. Dpmarshall 10:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Some of the prices already include VAT/Sales Tax, some don't include it. This renders the USD comparison highly misleading. Shouldn't sales taxes and VAT be excluded from the USD equivalent prices? Dpmarshall 11:09, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I understand your reason for creating. However, i disagree with making it simpler. Sure, the infomation is in the article already, but the table gives a clear summary of what each region has or does not have. I really think that the old table works much better in this article. Will you please consider changing it back? dposse 14:09, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I have tried to remove the sales taxes from those prices that already include them twice now. And each time it has been reverted. As some of the listed prices don't include sales taxes but will have it added at the checkout, the USD equivalent column of this table is very misleading. For the sake of consistency, either include them in all USD equivalent prices (difficult in the US), or exclude them in all USD equivalent prices (very easy). Can we reach a consesus on this in order to render it a fair comparison across territories? Dpmarshall 20:14, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't help that they aren't explaining why they're reverting your changes. I for one am in favor of clarifying the issue of pre-factored taxes, but more should probably be done to show what exactly is being done to the prices. Perhaps it may be a good compromise to keep the direct conversion, but add parenthetical notes to indicate the included taxes, like what is currently shown in comments. Just a thought. Dancter 22:17, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestion Dancter - it sounds like a good way forward. I'll add them in paretheses with an appropriate footnote. Dpmarshall 17:55, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

What does the {} beside the price for Republic of Ireland refer to? €266{} I can't see any legend for this {} and it wasn't there previously? 58.28.150.139 05:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Is there a reason behind including the "USD Equivalent" on every line? Just curious, to me it doesn't seem neccesary. Danny 17:57, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I suppose it's just to give an even comparison of what people are paying in various places. Nintendo probably bases a lot of their decisions around the USD. You could just as well use British pounds, I supposed. If you want to make it neutral, I supposed you could do ounces of gold. That'll go over well! MrVoluntarist 18:46, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

The USD is the most common currency, many countries accept it and many use it as a base of comparison. TJ Spyke 20:44, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, most of us in non-US territories are comparing our regional pricing with that of the US to determine what additional cost we are paying for having the machine brought into our countries. Drahmad 02:54, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

How many countries should be represented on this table? Every country in the world? The table appears "over-full" at the moment. Suggestions? Drahmad 07:18, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes Every Country should be included, who is and is not important is not for us to decide and The Euro is used by the most people and countries (dont forget about the prospective countries...)Owwmykneecap 22:01, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

New site

I think we should add http://brokencontrollers.com/ to the unoffical coverage section, they always have up todate news on the Nintendo Wii. PeeeU 04:05, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree, I go there every day to stay up-to-date on the latest video gaming news, not to mention they have awesome forums, too. Chocoman 02:14, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

A new user just "happens" to agree with another new user that a completely unknown site should be added to the article? I don't think so... --Ritarri 15:05, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Just two brand new editors, no. Jaxad0127 16:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

A great site. Its my homepage and #1 source of Nintendo information. Plus, the forums are excellent. This site deserves at least a look. --TannerH 20:40, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

That is another new user, he just created his account 10 minutes ago. TJ Spyke 20:43, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Can someone report them? Jaxad0127 01:47, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets? We could just, you know, ignore this blatent foolishness. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 01:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Let me ask you something. Did you guys even go to the website and see what they had to offfer? PeeeU 03:38, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I have. The ten Wii news stories on the Wii News page are all links to or copies of content from other sites. It really doesn't add anything. --Maxamegalon2000 03:42, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Alright you are right on that one, altough Thewiire.com does basicly the same thing and yet it is on the Unoffical Coverage section.

PeeeU 03:58, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

That site is just like hundreds of others with Wii news. What makes it different? Jaxad0127 04:48, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Dude BrokenConrollers has everything, take it from me I work there. They have the latest Wii news.Teej11 23:50, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Uh...WP:VAIN. Jaxad0127 00:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Launch window games

Perhaps we should get rid of this section. All we really need are the launch games, and the section could get way too long if every game coming until between launch and March 2007 is added. TJ Spyke 04:40, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

See here for an archived discussion and here for a poll in the Xbox 360 article about which games to include in the hardware section, which can be used as precedent. -- ReyBrujo 04:46, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree, anyways in the Nintendo Power Issue 209, it gives a different list of the launch window titles.

The Ant Bully, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Barnyard, Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII, Call of Duty 3, Cars, Chicken Little: Ace in Action, Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 2, Elebits, Excite Truck, Far Cry Vengeance, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, GT Pro Series, Happy Feet, Ice Age 2, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Madden NFL 07, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Metal Slug Anthology, Monster 4×4 World Circuit, Need for Speed: Carbon, Open Season, Rampage: Total Destruction, Rapala Tournament Fishing, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Red Steel, SpongeBob SquarePants: Creature from the Krusty Krab, Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz, Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell Double Agent, Tony Hawk’s Downhill Jam, Trauma Center: Second Opinion, Wii Sports and World Series of Poker.

Source: GoNintendo

So shouldn't we use this list? --70.48.222.193 03:13, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I think we should just get rid of the "launch window" games list and just keep the launch games. Most people would come wanting to know what games are coming out at launch more than what's coming out 2 months after launch, that is what the List of Wii games is for. TJ Spyke 03:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of games, did you guys know that Nintendo will be holding a Nintendo Fusion Tour? To comemorate the Wii's launch. It's true. Starting on the 27th. The Nintendo Fusion Tour will be making stops in over 35 cities in the U.S. Fans will get to play some of the future titles that will release in Wii. Which punk-pop group; Hawthorne Heights will be headligning the tour. --Zeta26 21:54, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Nintendo announced the tour several months ago. TJ Spyke 05:03, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Vote

Type Keep if you would like to keep this section. Type Remove if you would like to remove this section. Add a small comment on why if you would like.

Remove it is just pointless to have launch window games on the main page... list of popular franchises is way more important. If we re-add the popular franchise section I might be moved to keep this section as well. --DivineShadow218 20:44, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Remove It is pointless. The list will just keep growing. I think we should add a link to the list of Wii games page. Uturnaroun 14:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Remove This list could become ridiculously long. Just stick to the launch games. Master Strike 19:08, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

RemoveAgree with Uturnaroun. --Farquaadhnchmn 21:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Remove Way too long, that's what the 'list of Wii games' is for. Launch DAY games only. Danny 22:55, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Remove Exactly what I think, Danny --Spiketmr 23:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Remove so get rid of all non-lauch day games, and put in a link to a page with them all on it as said before it will become massive. Shinigami Josh 05:42, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Remove The titles should be shifted to the article about Wii games and their release dates. Geekrecon 18:43, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Colombia price?

I am ignorant of the Colombian currency exchange rate, but I think someone added this for vandalization purposes:

Colombia COP$1,100,000[citation needed] $460 ($395†)

They say that's what the Wii will cost in Colombia. I highly doubt that it costs that much, so shouldn't this be removed?

http://www.google.com/search?&q=1100000+colombian+pesos+in+us+dollars 157.253.22.14 20:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I am too, that's ridiculously high, I doubt even the PS3 premium is that high in Colombia.--Signor 03:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

You doubt the PS3 will cost the USD equivalent of $460 in Columbia? I don't know if the Wii price is correct, but I doubt even the gimped PS3 would be that cheap. TJ Spyke 03:10, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

It seems that was added at this time: [5], and because he did not cite his source, I say that we remove it, however the IP address 157.253.22.14 is an address from within Santaf De Bogot, Distrito Capital, Colombia http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=157.253.22.14 so I doubt a person from colombia would vandalization about the pricing for his/her country, or would he/she? Logan GBA 14:52, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandals are weird. Maybe the person added this specific information because he or she figured it was more likely to be believed. Of course, maybe it's right too. Shrug. --Maxamegalon2000 16:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

ACTUALLY that is the REAL price of Wii at Nintendo Official Store in Bogotá. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.118.25.146 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Dolby Pro Logic II

Source: http://www.wiivolve.com/fullNews.php?newsId=20

Full article: Today Dolby Laboratories have announced that the Wii will use Dolby Pro Logic II technology to offer gamers an immersive surround sound experience. This basically means that you wont have full 5.1 Dolby Surround when playing Metroid Prime 3.

“The Wii console will break down the walls that separate gamers from everyone else” said Koji Kondo, Manager, Sound Group, Entertainment Analysis and Development Division at Nintendo “Sound is a key part of this equation and because Wii supports Dolby Pro Logic II surround sound technology, we think everyone can have a great audio experience.”

“Dolby Pro Logic II technology ensures that the Wii console can offer rich, immersive surround sound, which is essential to a great gaming experience,” said John Griffin, Marketing Director, Games, Dolby Laboratories. “We’re looking forward to hearing how great Nintendo’s games sound at launch.”

---

I think that this should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WiiVolve (talk • contribs)

We've known for months it would use Pro Logic II, Dolby just announced this today. Also, using your own site for sources? Tsk. TJ Spyke 21:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I changed the link to point to the release posted at the Dolby website. There's no need to use a secondary source for the exact same content. Dancter 22:01, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought it was a conflicy of interest anyways, the guy used his own site for the link. TJ Spyke 22:03, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if Prologic II was chosen because of the slower CPU of the Wii compared to it's competitors, that way they can save all CPU resources for graphics and not worry too much about proccessing sound. Here what I found at the Dolby site :

"Dolby Pro Logic II also enables video game consoles to encode five-channel surround sound information into a stereo signal with virtually no impact on the console's CPU, which means all this extra audio won't slow your game down." http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_II.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.160.130.16 (talk • contribs) 23:25, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

This doesn't seem to pertain much to improving the article. Please refrain from using the talk page for idle chat. Dancter 23:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

The reason I added the link is too show that the Wii may very well be able to offer full true 5.1 surround sound not just simulated 5.1 In other words, Prologic II decodes 5 independant surround sound channels(5.1) the game developers encoded in the Wii game. So, the begining statement about not being able to play Metroid Prime in full 5.1 may be flawed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.160.130.16 (talk • contribs) 22:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I understand your reason for mentioning it, though the statement you're disputing was never actually added to the article, despite WiiVolve's request for it. All that has ever been in the article is a simple bullet point mentioning the Pro Logic II capability. That should be enough. Dancter 02:58, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Dolby Pro Logic II is matrix based 4.1 surround sound from a stereo source. It is not 5.1 like Dolby Digital. The number before the decimal is the number of standard speakers, and the number following the decimal is the woofer (because it has roughly 1/10 the bandwidth of the speakers). Dolby Pro Logic II decodes to center, left, right, and rear surround. So, no, Metroid Prime 3 will not feature 5.1. Geekrecon 18:48, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be 5.0, rather than 4.1? Dancter 19:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, it's 5.1 on the Dolby_Pro_Logic#Dolby_Pro_Logic_II article. --Oscarthecat 19:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

£179 or £179.99?

Amazon UK give their price to be £179.99, and rarely do products come out here in the UK at £X9 exactly, it's more likely to be 179.99. Will ^{(Glaciers melting in the dead of night)} 03:02, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

There are bound to be variations in pricing, but I think it's best to stick with what comes from the manufacturer's camp, which in this case would be simply £179. Dancter 04:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Nintendo "estimated" the price at £179 - but don't "recommend" a price in Europe (as that's not legal in many places). Nintendo's "estimate" is the closest thing we have to an official price. Dpmarshall 10:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Does 0.99 REALLY make that much of a Difference for a newly released Games console? notoriouskidcoire 12:54, 07 October 2006 (GMT)

Vandalism

Some idiot found it to be a fun idea to vandalise the page with a clever comment of "PS3 Rox! Wii sucks!". Can someone with access to original article erase this utterly perceptive and smart comment and revert it to the way it was please? - Russ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.54.243.250 (talk • contribs) 12:59, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not hard. just go to the history section. Zazaban 04:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Russ, when you see vandalism even you can revert it. Either go to the history page at the top and review the changes that were made to ensure they didn't delete anything when adding their nonsense and then restore that section or the page to what it was before the vandalism making sure to not overwrite any new edits, or the simple way is to click the edit tab above the section and just remove the vandalism and then check the history to make sure they didnt delete anything that you need to add back in. Also next time you talk on this page please sign your posts with ~~~~ this will put your username/ip and the time+date of your post, this lets us know who left a message and when. Thanks a bunch and welcome to Wikipedia. Sir hugo 12:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Dancter for signing my comment since I seem to have forgotten it myself.Sir hugo 14:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh. Allright. Thought it was a moderator/member privilage. Thanks for saying. -Russ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.54.243.250 (talk • contribs) .

Removed US Wii link

I have removed the first external link which was to the US Wii portal and left the international Wii portal as the first link. I think that is appropriate geographic NPOV. Garglebutt / (talk) 02:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I added it back in as it has different information and is still a valid link for general Wii information.Sir hugo 11:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Two Problems

I can find no sources or references relating to Australian controller prices. I will remove these now.

Also I think that the references section can be consolidated and mostly sourced from sites in the sources list. I only wish I had the time to do that part.OriginalPiMan 09:49, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Since you were looking for sources for controller prices, have you come across any for the Canadian controller prices? I haven't had any luck. I asked the original contributor of the information for a source a while back, but nothing seems to have come of it. Dancter 14:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

You shouldn't have removed them. The policy is if its not damaging to the article it should be tagged. Otherwise you should remove all the other pricing that is unverified including the Canadian controllers and the Ireland/Columbian pricing etc.

Sorry for not deleting the rest, or deleting the Aussie prices, whichever is worse. But when I looked again the prices back with new (still unsourced) information.

None the less, there is still no word from Nintendo Australia about official prices but I won't delete the new prices immediately.OriginalPiMan 12:23, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

the prices are in the EB Games Catalogue— Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.184.221.150 (talk • contribs)

You do realize that retailers just use placeholder dates and prices until they get the correct info? TJ Spyke 00:31, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

archive soon

This talk page needs to be archived soon. I don't know how to do it, but I do now you do not archive discussions that have had comments in the last week.Tuesday42 22:05, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Most likely it will be archived by someone come the first of the month anyway, I would hold off till then for now.Sir hugo 12:13, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Turned out a little messier than usual, but the September archive is done now. Hope I didn't exclude anything too recent -- I also put up a new header at the top to remind everyone of those issues we've been through so many times before. --Stratadrake 02:36, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Tuesday42 03:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Criticism section

Is, to be fair, rubbish. No sources for the critism of European price. Out of the three sources of critism for the graphics 1 of them heaps only praise on the console, and 1 of them barely mentions graphics (and is largely innacurate in the rest of the article). The last one is a barely comprehensible fan site. I'm not even sure that "graphics aren't as good as the others" is a valid critism anyway as this is the stated intention of the product. The price may be a valid critism and there are articles on gamespot which can be sited if needs be. Ajmayhew 15:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. The diff for the criticism removal is here. Probably best to leave the criticism section removed for now, and wait for the product to actually be released. Am sure there will be plenty of reviews/criticism/comparisons then. --Oscarthecat 20:34, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree after reading the Critisism section the claims seemed to be more fancruft than encyclopaedic I will continue to monitor any such additions until the product is released, wait until we hear what the consumers have to say. Dctcool 21:59, 29 September 2006 (AEST)

(originally wrote this seperatly as I didn't notice the above) Would certain people please stop removing the criticism section. It is utterly irrelevant that you think the Wii is the best thing since sliced bread, this is supposed to be a NPOV article and so the criticism section is needed- especially since the PS3 article also has this. Also could some of the decent members of the community please watch out for the Nintendo fanboys doing this and reinstate it when they hide it. __ Yes the section wasn't that good, I said as much when I made it. The point is though that it is there and it does need doing. Waiting until its released- maybe. However the PS3 article has a criticism section despite being further away from release then the Wii.--Josquius 16:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

There can be a critisism section,as long as the statements are accuratly sourced. They weren't and thus, removed. Find sources, than readd it, and it can be kept.--Ac1983fan^{(yell at me)} 19:40, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

the Price has been critisied esp in uk and Ireland (we are a eurozone country you fucks, why charge us more)Owwmykneecap 22:05, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Everything costs more in the UK/Ireland. You can't include that because the PS3 and Xbox 360 cost more in the UK than in North America as well. TJ Spyke 22:08, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... this is a tricky one actually. Both sides are right I think, there are some criticisms that exist now and there are some which may surface or vanish after it launches. I'd say that we try to keep the criticisms minimal (even though I have a ton of them) because at this point it's mostly just speculation. Some things which might be criticised includ the price (being too much for the non-gaming community, especially as it lacks DVD playing abilities) and the graphics (given that HD might really take off during its life span). As with the name criticism I finally got added, this stuff will take a good bit of citations from reputable sources to establish that they are real concerns that the press and gaming circles have. I do think, however, that just as the article is allowed to contain information about all the theoretical boons of the system, it should be allowed to contain information about all the theoretical problems with the system. After all, NPOV! The price in Europe isn't something I'm going to comment on because I haven't really heard much about it... --Twile 00:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the Graphics critisism would now be irrelivent from the new screenshots of Red Steel, the graphics in those shots bring it up almost to 360 standards, you can see these screens in their official blog, [[6]], remember the console is still in early stages so later on graphics are bound to improve, and you cannot place critisism on the Price when you look at the Playstation 3's pricetag

That however is irrelevant. Its not about what you think its that criticisms do exist. Logically one of two things must happen here, either:

• The Wii is allowed a criticism section
• The PS3 isn't allowed a criticism section

The allowence of a critisism is not the case and is pure fanboyish, what is the case is keeping the facts in sources in order, the sources provided so for provide no hard evidence, we're not picking on the PS3 but unless solid sources emerge of a professional analyst or critic directly critisising the Wii's features the Critisism section will stay out.Dctcool 09:12, 01 October 2006 (AEST)

Both are in the same stage of not being released so the arguments about whether there should or shouldn't be a section should mutally apply to both. Hell the PS3 is even further from release then the Wii. Sources: I did have sources. Hard to find since I get my computer game press from the real world not the internet but I foudn them.--Josquius 11:10, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

There are some valid critcisms for the PS3: the delays and the high price (both partially caused by the Blu ray feature.) The Wii, however, has the somewhat inferior graphics and the initial reaction to the name. The latter is (or should be) in the name section, and the former isn't enough to base a criticism section on. The european pricing doesn't seem to me to be worth mentioning, particularly because it was unsourced. Once it is released, there will be either a criticism section or a reception section. I prefer the reception section, you can include positive and negative reactions in the same section. Tuesday42 14:36, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

This section exists because people like Don_SF are so insecure that PS3 has points to be critical about, PS3 fans feel insecure about thier system choice and want Wii to have bad opinion-based points made against it because there are so many valid against the PS3. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.29.62.223 (talk • contribs) 14:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• sigh* Here we go again. ::rolls eyes:: Anyway, casting aside my issues with having a purely perfunctory criticism section for now, how is it that HDTV technology is "widespread"? Simply put, it's not. The number of people with HDTV's pales in comparison to those still with regular TV's. Sure, that will change in the next several years, but for now, sorry, Nintendo is right. Plus, I think they're secretly hoping the PS3 and/or 360 will pull a "Dreamcast" and pave the way for the "Wii-HD", saving them money for now. Danny 16:07, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Criticism (cont.)

Since it was moved to the archive rather fast....

The allowence of a critisism is not the case and is pure fanboyish, what is the case is keeping the facts in sources in order, the sources provided so for provide no hard evidence, we're not picking on the PS3 but unless solid sources emerge of a professional analyst or critic directly critisising the Wii's features the Critisism section will stay out.Dctcool 09:12, 01 October 2006 (AEST)

No, its to counter fanboyism that the Wii does need it and it is due to fanboyism that it is not here. There are plenty of major games magazines that have commented on neegative aspects of the Wii (i.e. Edge had a piece on the Wii with a rather large criticism section)--Josquius 15:18, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

There are some valid critcisms for the PS3: the delays and the high price (both partially caused by the Blu ray feature.) The Wii, however, has the somewhat inferior graphics and the initial reaction to the name. The latter is (or should be) in the name section, and the former isn't enough to base a criticism section on. The european pricing doesn't seem to me to be worth mentioning, particularly because it was unsourced. Once it is released, there will be either a criticism section or a reception section. I prefer the reception section, you can include positive and negative reactions in the same section. Tuesday42 14:36, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The Wii is also criticised in the press. And stop the source fascism, I should not be the only one having to do this. It is quite obvious that it is true Europe is more expensive however as the article itself says so much. Game central had a rather large moan on this fact. The Wii is not immune to criticism, there is a lot of it out there. Maybe not as much as the PS3 (due to anti-Sony fanboys being a far more vocal bunch then the generally more 'casual gamer' Sony 'fans') but it exists and if one is mentioned so should the other.--Josquius 15:18, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Please, do not remove a section in an article just because another does not have it, that is exactly what we try to prevent. This article needs a criticism section, but so far everytime I had tried to add one, consensus was not to have it. You can continue trying here, but please, don't remove similar sections from other articles. Thanks. -- ReyBrujo 15:28, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Criticism is fine but professional sources are absolutely essential, otherwise it is just fanboyism and should be referenced or deleted. BrokenBeta [talk · contribs] 20:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I've cleaned up the section significantly and added a warning for future edits. Just64helpin 17:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry but it needs to be removed the section is very very poor. The first sentence makes reference to [49] which does not say anything about the graphics being 'no being much greater than' GameCube. Wii being more expensive in Europe etc. with no Citation is a joke - all the consoles are this way. [53] also has nothing but priase for the Remote, which it is a reference to saying "the remote is the source of much criticism". I am all for a criticism section but the citations are borderline pathetic. Most are not even crediable game sources. 49 for example - I doupt they post more than 1 or 2 game related posts a year and they don't even give their sources.

• I don't think that the part in the criticism about the lack of DVD playback should be added because consumers can still watch videos by using the OPERA BROWSER, and going on Youtube since the Wii Opera Browser has Flash.

See, that's the thing. Just because you don't buy into a certain criticism doesn't mean that it's not a valid one. It's important that we mention all of the highly-mentioned criticisms, regardless of whether one agrees with them or not. --Maxamegalon2000 21:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The source for the "major" criticism should be removed, I don't believe this is a major criticism, even the link that is footnoted doesn't stress how this is such a big deal, just labeling it as a downside.--Signor 23:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't have time right now to look at all the citations, but the one for the Wiimote production problems was not very good. It said that production problems were why Nintendo hadn't commited to a release date, and the whole thing stated it was a "possibillity" and was based of translation of a japanese site called "PC gaming" or something like that. Since this is out of date I ask someone to remove this criticism or find a better citation, since I have to log off. Tuesday42 22:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this section needs to be cleaned up. The writing isn't very good and it does need more citations. I also find it odd that they mention the controller is hard to manufacture--the only people who would be criticizing that would be Nintendo management folks, I can't imagine other people complaining ("Hey Ted, have you heard about those Wiimote yileds?" "Ugh, don't even get me STARTED."). At the same time it seems lacking in criticism for the lack of DVD functionality, which I'm sure has been brought up in articles (though of course I lack any right now). Basically, I think that the idea of a criticisms section is a good one, but this one needs some polishing and citations. --Twile 22:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

There was something about the lack of DVD playback. Someone deleted it though, look above to see someone whining about how it didn't need it due to youtube and so it shouldn't be mentioned--Josquius 13:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

The info about DVD playback was moved to another section and not deleted. Just64helpin 17:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the statement about manufacturing issues was probably my doing. It can be deleted if desired. The previous statement mentioned something about accuracy concerns about the Wii Remote, but the associated reference didn't say anything about accuracy, but of manufacturing and quality control, so I adjusted the statement to match the source. If people want the original statement, they'll need to source it better. Dancter 23:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

About the line "The Remote is also the source of much criticism from those who would prefer a more traditionalist approach from Nintendo's next generation console." I read the links. One of them was just not really good, but the other was a high quality analysis of why the Wii might fail. However, I've seen mostly praise for Nintendo being so original, and the good citation didn't really say they wanted a more "tradionalist approach," it was more of a possible outcome based on events involving the Gamecube, N64, and DS. I'm going to delete this part, but if anyone wants it back, please re-write it. Info on wikipedia should be made to fit the reseach, it shouldn't be done so the resource is forced into the site to fit the info. Tuesday42 01:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

looking at the critisim page, there is only one citation and it isnt relivent (the link has nothing to do with what it is to be surpporting and is out of date (360 + ps3 releas the same) and comes across as biased) and all the other ones dont even have citations Shinigami Josh 01:21, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I personaly think that the criticism section is not really nessesary for now. The console isn't even out yet. And when it is out, the graphics will be better. Not to mention that is is also a "FUTURE PRODUCT AND MAY NOT REFLECT THE FINAL VERSION OF THE Wii." And the name, I don't think that critism over the name is a big deal, I also think that the article on the criticism part on the name is a P.O.V. Many people think it's kiddy while many people think it's not. And since when did the name become a criticism???? (74.111.14.37 00:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Why do people still keep placing the lack of graphics power in the Critisism section have you not seen these shots from the Red Steel Blog [[7]]

The only reason I can think that the lack of graphics power might keep leaking into the criticisms section is THAT IT IS A CRITICISM. Whether or not YOU think those screenshots are mind-blowing doesn't matter, because we're trying to gather criticisms that have been repeatedly brought up by credible sources in the gaming community. Another thing is that we're dealing with relative comparisons, people are generally comparing the Wii with the Xbox 360 and PS3 (as the consumer will ultimately have to decide which one(s) to spend lots of money on). Unless ATI and IBM came out with miracle technologies that take almost no power, put out almost no heat, give mind-blowing performance, and they're willing to part with these technologies for very cheap (and they've come out in the ~1 year between Xbox 360 and Wii hardware being finalized), the Wii will, plain and simple, not have the same graphical power. Now you might say that this isn't a problem because it doesn't look that bad right now. Max Payne looked gorgeous back in its day, but 5 years later (the lifespan of a console) its graphics are several generations old and they look it. So these criticisms aren't necessarily saying that the graphics are terrible here and now, they're saying that compared to what the other consoles will have, and given that these graphics still have to impress several years down the road, Wii might be in some trouble. Ultimately however, it's not really up to you or me to say that the complaint is a moot point because a few pictures show what you consider nice graphics. It's still a valid concern. --Twile 17:06, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

People say look at the graphics now and that they will improve, but the fact is, you aren't going to see much improvement. Developers have already stated in interviews with Madden they are pushing the hardware to the limits graphwise at launch or near launch. So the lack of graphical power is a valid criticism. Also, in there it sates taht Nintendo said the console can be up to 2-3 times as powerful as the gamecube. This was a comment made in the summer of 2005, and it was later retracted as not being fact. That comment needs to be deleted from the Wii page. Coolluck October 7, 2006

These Claims are nothing but people looking for something to critisise the Wii for and have given us irrelivent information so far that is not encyclapedic —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dctcool (talk • contribs) .

I agree. Plus why should the grpahics be critisized? IT IS A FUTURE PRODUCT AND MAY NOT REFLECT THE FINAL VERSION OF THE Wii. Plus I played Wii just a few days ago, and when I saw the grpahics, I said... Wow. We are gonna be playing Zelda and you will be saying wow, you also be playing Red Steel and you will say wow. Plus if the graphics weren't good, at least the games are great. Like what people say "Playing fun games are better than playing terrible games with good graphics. It's about how fun the game is, not the graphics. And if you don't believe me, just look at the DS sales charts! DS has sold millions more than PSP! Even though the DS has N64 graphics while the PSP has PS2 graphics, consumers choose DS over PSP because of how fun the games are (games like Pokemon Diamond and Pearl which has already sold more than million copies in two weeks!!) E.A. has also said that games means much more than graphics and they are ready to leave Sony if Sony doesn't improve. 74.111.14.37 19:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

First of all, personal impressions don't matter, that is considered original research, and is one of the things Wikipedia does not accept. The article must be neutral, thus we need to add information from both the good and the bad. The console hasn't been released, yes. So, we should not include criticism information? Then we should not include launch games, because it hasn't been launched yet. Wikipedia is based in facts that we can verify in reliable sources. Your impressions and mine mean nothing to the article. We need third party people talking about the console. If they are critic, even when the console hasn't been launched, we can include that information. If they later retract, we can add a note saying they were critic but later were convinced. As for the DS vs PSP, I would remind you of Virtual Boy. -- ReyBrujo 23:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey The Link in the Critisism section is linked to a website where anyone can submit articles, don't articles need to be professional or something like that?

Good Point I must have overlooked this section, the Author has alot of Inaccurate information about the Wii, She claims it has A Hard Drive right out of the Box (It has Flash memory not a hard Drive) she also claimed it has free online games (It has free online access, games cost between $5-$10). This is Enough evidence to remove whats left of the Critisism section, so unless anyone provides evidence (new sources) to keep the section It will be deleted within 24 Hours

-- Dctcool 14:48, 10 October 2006 (AEST)

err how about...No?

One dodgy link does not make for the entire section being bad.

Much of the discussion above is just proving my original point about fanboyism...--Josquius 10:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Josquius I deleted your Critisism remarks for many reasons:

1. Some links have no sources 2. The Links that do DON'T DIRECTLY CRITISISE the issue, simply saying that the Wii is missing a feature DOES NOT make it Critisism, 3. Sources are not professional sources most of the claims are fanboyism and so far Josquius you seem to be the only person who keeps adding more and more false critisism

so in all it comes down to one key issue: Sources Sources Sources Sources. and that link you provided about the production issues turned out to be false, In fact the [[8]] as this link says the Wii is ahead of schedule, If there were problems they wouldn't be ahead would they? You know what I'm just going delete the whole section and request full protection on the page .--Dctcool 21:04, 10 October 2006 (AEST)

Would a vote be a good way to approach this?Tuesday42 20:47, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Wow...You really are determined for everything to be totally pro Nintendo aren't you? YOU are the fanboy side here. I am simply on the side of NPOV. If you don't think the criticism section is good then thats fine, wow. But deleting it is not the wikipedia way, improving is. You aren't happy with the sources- find some better ones! --Josquius 21:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

That is your job(and it's your fault the article was fully protected so none of us can edit it). Either find good sources of the info will be deleted. TJ Spyke 21:10, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

'My job'??? Wikipedia is supposed to be a collaborative effort. It is not 'my job' to do anything. And it was Dctool who got the page protected (after ensuring the version he liked was established of course)--Josquius 09:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

You're right it's not you're job, it's no-one's job. however if you are to add a criticism section it's your Responsibility to make sure the sources are valid, if you can't maintain that responsibility then you should not be an editor, yes I was the onewho protected this page, I protected it from you since everyone else here says that your critisism claims are a load of garbage which are poorly sourced. Don't try and pin the blame on other people, and besides I don't think you know what the word "Criticism " means, Criticism is supposed to bad a rebuttle based on an action which as caused a negative effect, now so far the claims you have made are not claims which has caused a negative effect, where as the PS3's Criticism claims have, the reason the PS3's Criticism had remained is because the negative effect form the PS3's high price has caused Sony's stock prices to drop, and has turned away developers. what negative effect has the Wii cause in the claims you made: None, simply saying the Wii is lacking something DOES NOT make it criticism, yesterday I removed a criticism claim from the PSP page about the lack of "Ice Cream Maker". now of course the claim is stupid but it means that there is a fine difference between a fan's demands (which is basically what you've made right now) and somethig which has caused damage to another industry, besides not every Wiki page needs to have a criticism section, PS2 doesn't have one, GCN doesn't have one,and both Xbox and Xbox 360 don't have one, you are the only person who thinks that a Criticism section is needed, but the fact of the matter is: the console is not yet out and i has not yet caused a negative effect in any way, If you're saying the Wii page needs a criticism section then you're saying that all the other pages I mentioned needs a criticism page, but of course I'm not going to add such a claim on any one of those pages because there is nothing I can find on any of those products which has caused a negative effect, just let it go Josquius it's not my fault this page it protected, It's YOUR fault for making fancruft claims saying :"The Company should do this, the Company Should do that" just let the issue go Josquius so we can all get on with our lives. and for god sakes please spell my name right. I've also posted more comment's further down the page.--Dctcool 01:22 12 October (UTC)

Some of you seem to be attempting to obfuscate the fact that Wikipedia criticism sections are often composed indulgently and after considerable debate about why a "criticism section" is both necessary to a NPOV article and ultimately fair game for inclusion (both spurious from my perspective), are added with little regard to their actual worth. Of the handful of criticism sections I've seen on Wikipedia (generally dealing with bands in my experience), they seem to skewer bias and purport to be worthwhile inclusions merely because they are linked to a vaguely relevant article.

Whether or not this article continues to have a criticism section is something that should certainly be decided by the masses, though quite a bit of work needs to be done to justify its inclusion in my opinion. In the end, Wikipedia isn't an advertising site and therefore it isn't our job to list our relative ideas of the "pros and cons" of a given item. Even the more vociferiously cited detractions for the hardware (i.e, the lack of HD and technical prowess) seem as if they could be implemented into the general flow of article rather than given their own spotlight for unnecessary (and certainly be to contentious) extrapolation.

Of course, that's just my two cents.

solutions?

Perhaps some new ideas are needed, rather than repeating the same arguments. Would a temporary subpage be a useful approach for developing the criticisms section? As described in Wikipedia:Subpages#Allowed uses and Wikipedia:Content forking#Temporary subpages, it would allow the content to be worked on collaboratively while the issues are discussed. Dancter 21:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Or what about wait for the console to be released this fall and actually do the criticism section after when it's released so we can get the Pros and Cons about the Wii? That makes sense to me.74.111.14.37 22:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm still wondering how this got so out of hand. I thought it was pretty obvious, like that whole no HDTV when first announced, it being the weakest out of the three (yet remember the ps2) and maybe even the price, controller and name...or better yet, wait for the darn thing to come out first.FullMetal Falcon 23:30, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

After research into the history of this page it seems that Josquius seems to be the only person who keeps bombarding the page with different critisism claims which are poorly sourced or sourced to irrelivent pages, I propose Josquius be blocked from the Wii page for failing to follow Wikipedia guidelines, It seems he just wants to add something negative to be on the Wii page, he also claims to work from a NPOV yet he keeps adding different claims, thats not an NPOV that's a Negative POV. I also agree with FullMetal Falcon the Critisism section regarding the Console in terms of Graphics, Controller and HD should stay out until the Wii is released. as for marketing for Europe the majority of titles held back in that reigon are 3rd party titles outside of Nintendo's control, Thats not Critisism on the Wii's behalf. I'm also going to have to disagree on the idea of a subpage from for Critisism only as it seems more of an advertising page rather than an encylopedic page, plus the page has to be Netural, I guess if there was a pro and con page for all 3 consoles it would be alright but isn't there a page already like that? Dctcool 00:36 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, it doesn't seem to make sense to lock the page when it's just one user who keeps adding info with poor or no sources and refuses to come up with better sources. TJ Spyke 00:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

What on Earth?
Its YOU who went and got the page protected, its YOU who kept subtly removing bits of the section despite the disclaimer that said to discuss it here first. Its YOU who is failing to follow wikipedia guidelines.
Of course what I'm adding is a negative POV, its in the 'criticism' section. The positive POV is found elsewhere in the article. Positive + critical = neutral. That's the way wikipedia generally works.
I have been a big contributer to wikipedia for quite some time and have contributed to many different articles. You however seem to have only began editing a small number of rather narrowly focussed articles- looking at your mega drive edit for instance it seems to be a rather nintendo fanboyesque 'these claims were proven to be incorrect' in response to a bit about the mega drive having a resurgance in popularity....
For waiting until its released- just look at the Playstation 3 article. Its section is there just fine already.
As said many times before by several people- it doesn't matter what you think about the graphics. The fact is that many games journalists are critical of them.--Josquius 09:08, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Where? where are these claims of journalists criticising the graphics? WHERE'S THE PROOF. Remeber there is a fine line saying that the product doesn't have something, and ACTUALLY CRITICISING IT, so you said you've been on wiki longer, SO WHAT are you trying to claim that you're better than me? and I DID discuss the matter, and the fact of the matter is ONLY YOU said it was nessesary for a criticism section, Majority decission based on what everyone else here has said.--Dctcool 01:33 12 October (UTC)

The way I read the subpage concept was as something like a common sandbox, and not part of the encyclopedia. The pages I linked to strongly emphasize the distinction from content forking. Anyway, if there is indeed a consensus for leaving the section out until launch, then I am all for it.

Though I must say, many of the arguments (on both sides) seem to demonstrate somewhat of a understanding of NPOV policy, specifically that criticisms have to be legitimate to be noted. From the NPOV policy: "Debates are described, represented, and characterized, but not engaged in." A criticisms section should not be asserting judgments of actual characteristics of the Wii, but merely describing public opinion. It doesn't matter if people are justified to believe something about the Wii. It only matters that there is a notable segment that thinks it, and that the reception is directly reported in a reputable source. Dancter 01:12, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

This is getting totally out of hand. You want a solution? List a bunch of criticisms FROM reputable gaming news sources. If you got it from the sources, you can damn well cite them. If we're trying to remain NPOV it should be possible to list brief counter-points (example: "The Wii will not have the option to play DVDs natively or through an add-on, however Nintendo says this is unncessary as most consumers have DVD players already." or "The lack of HD resolutions has also been a large source of criticism, especially in comparison with other next-gen consoles, but Nintendo feels it is not a problem for this product generation" etc). As long as the citations are included and the sources are good, there's no reason we can't put in possible concerns people have repeatedly expressed. This section, of course, will be updated when the final reviews have been made. --Twile 17:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, please. Just end this. Sure, there are critisimims, and if someone is putting up their own POV, espeically without any reputable source to back up any part of it, they should be just be removed, not the entire ability to edit the article. Just end this.142.161.107.32 00:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

as said before 'One dodgy link does not make for the entire section being bad.' wereas there was only on link, and it wasnt, say bad but was compleatly irelivent to the point it was ment to be surporting, and out of date with the majority of points inacurate. compaire that to the page on the PS3, it has links for every sentance to a reputable site. @Josquius: you your self seam to be screwing up the whole point of a NPOV, with your comments. and as was stated deatails change. also as stated your links are not relivant and your main sorce is pro nintendo. Shinigami Josh 10:25, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Updated tech specs

These tech specs are missing from the Wikipedia Nintendo Wii entry:

729 MHz IBM PowerPC "Broadway" CPU
243 MHz ATI "Hollywood" GPU
24MBs "main" 1T-SRAM
64MBs other 1T-SRAM
3MBs texture memory on GPU
Built-in 802.11b/g Wi-Fi capability

source: IGN.com (http://wii.ign.com/articles/733/733464p1.html)

-R 72.43.142.220 21:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

There was a post about this on here earlier. The IGN specs were not from Nintendo, IBM, or ATI and they have not been confirmed by any of the groups. Till one of them does confirm them these are purely speculative. Since even if they did come from a developer there is no guarantee that the devkits issued at this point are the same as the final hardware.

too much Vandalism, Please block Anons from editing

Wii (pronounced as the word "we", IPA: /wiː/) is Nintendo's seventh-generation video game console. Its official project code name was Penis machine.

^^ Well i guess it proves my point. Dont worry i fixed it.

But i suggest we put this article back on Editing Protection from new users and Anonymous users. Toasty!|Available at your local store 23:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Breaking news: No more game-specific friend codes!

Due to the negative reception of the Nintendo DS' online multiplayer system, Nintendo Europe has announced that the Wii will no longer use game-specific friend codes! :) --TBCTaLk?!? 19:35, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

There are still friend codes, just to systems and not games. Also, I think a more reliable source should be used than this site. TJ Spyke 20:47, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I think they're talking about the latest installment of the Iwata Asks series (http://wii.nintendo.com/iwata_asks_vol3_p3.html), but are oversimplifying things, and are somewhat misleading about the details. Dancter 20:54, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Amazon Pre-Order Glitch

I read the statement that Amazon gave about the Pre-orders and I thought it meant that it wasn't a problem that people could pre-order a Wii. But it was that when they opened pre-orders they had to close it quickly becuase so many people ordered it. And the problem was that the people who wanted a notifictation that the pre-orders were open didn't get one.

The current wording in the article says that it was a glitch the they started accepting pre-orders. Grey Goshawk 10:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Text input

Please excuse me if I missed this in the article, but things like the Opera browser will require the user to be able to enter text (e.g. URLs, text fields) using the Wii Remote/Nunchuck. How is this done? BrokenBeta [talk · contribs] 20:34, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

We don't know. There could be a on-screen keyboard, the Wii could also possibly support USB keyboards. TJ Spyke 20:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

In the Mii channel they briefly named a new Mii via an on-screen keyboard, my guess is that they will have an on-screen keyboard that pops up when you point somewhere or press a button. I doubt they'll support USB keyboards because the point of the Wii hardly seems to be text-intensive things like writing emails or forum posts (or editing Wikipedia... imagine editing the Wii article while using a Wii!). That's more PS3 territory. But at this point it's anyone's guess I suppose. --Twile 22:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Name origin. Is this true?

From this. Can anyone confirm this?

"The name Nintendo means ‘luck from Heaven’. The name Revolution means ‘overthrow of a ruler’. People still ask, “Why didn’t they just keep ‘Revolution’ as the name of the console?” Aside from the obvious reasons (already trademarked, internet searching for ‘wii’ is much easier to find the console than ‘revolution’, etc.), Nintendo did keep the ‘Revolution’ name. They simply combined Nintendo and Revolution which comes out as ‘Wii’. In Kanji of the old Japanese (19th century and earlier), the name ‘wii’ can literally mean the ‘overthrow of the gods’."

--Zooba 21:00, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I seriously doubt that meaning of "Wii", but the meaning of "Nintendo" is fairly accurate. "Ninten" approximately means "Leave luck to Heaven." or "Heaven blesses." "Do" is a suffix roughly meaning "store" or "company". On a search of Google for "leave luck to heaven" or "What does Nintendo mean?", several matches appear. A few years ago Nintendo.com had the meaning on their website to be a long-winded translation of "Leave luck to heaven." as something like "We do the most we can, the best we can, and await the result.", but that definition has since been removed now that the website is more meant to target gamers as opposed to those interested in corporate information. Geekrecon 19:06, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I e-mailed the person from the original source and all he said was that he got told it from a teacher in Japan. My Japanese teacher couldn't find anything either, although confirmed the "Nintendo" name meaning. I'm wondering whether e-mailing NoE or even NoA would bring anything up... I mean, I don't know why they'd deny it, if it was true. --Zooba 18:23, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, to do that would be original research, so unless they publish it somewhere, we're out of luck either way on this one. --Maxamegalon2000 18:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

If NoE do reply and say, "Yes, 'Wii' neans 'overthrow the gods' in pre-19th century Japanese," couldn't I take a screenshot and cite it as my source? Or would Wikipedia still see that as original research? --Zooba 18:31, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm really not sure about that. Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. It doesn't sound particularily verifiable to me. --Maxamegalon2000 18:36, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

History section?

I was reading through this excellent Ars Technica article called How the Wii was born, and it made me think that perhaps it would be appropriate to write a "History" section for this article. The Ars Technica story would be a good reference for such a section. jaco♫plane 03:24, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Another good source would be the Nintendo engineers interview by Iwata. jaco♫plane 03:31, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Pretty good idea. Put in a unprotection request and a edit a protected article request so you can write it. Fire Emblem Freak ^talk

EDIT: Good point Dancter, I forgot that -.-' I suggest adding it right after the "Launch" section as I am too lazy right now to write it.

Why? The article is only semi-protected. The only ones who are prevented from editing the article are unregistered and newly-registered users. Dancter 17:19, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Well I wasn't worried about the protection. I just thought that I'd propose it on the talk page before proceeding. Since there seem to be no objections I'll write the section when I have some time. jaco♫plane 03:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Very subtle

"Wii will be able to connect to the Internet through its"

Changing.Kirbysuperstar 03:54, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

WAIT. Now I get it. I thought it was "Wii" as in "we". Goddamn Nintendo for that name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kirbysuperstar (talk • contribs) .

Region encoding

Wii will include region encoding into Virtual console games, i find this highly stupid since this means Europe, UK, America and Australia will miss out on all those vital titles that hit only Japan.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.194.74.227 (talk • contribs)

Sign your comments with four ~ signs please. Could you source that? I didn't see anything about VC games coming region encoded, but would it really matter? The system is designed for you to download games to your console, not import games. Besides, VC is a great chance for Nintendo to put games that never made it to the states (or any other region for that matter) up for sale to a new market. Mightyhog 14:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I have no clue on the source either but assuming he is correct then it would void your last sentence. A game released in Japan only for the NES would stay Japan only on VC, problem with this comes from things like Final Fantasy that if release for the VC were later released in the States on the PS. This raises some interesting questions about the VC anyway, can't wait for it to come out.Sir hugo 17:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps he is referring to this...? Virtual Console games will be tailored to each territory. This isn’t to say that Europe won’t see games that are released in the US, this means that the games will see tweaks for each territory. Source: GoNintendo blog entry taken from eurogamer.net --Zooba 19:53, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm kinda hoping this will be changed if it's true. If I were Nintendo, I would do it. Because you'd be nuts to deny people games they've never got but heard were cool so would pay for them. Vitriol 21:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see. It says that the Virtual Console games would be slightly altered. I hope they don't do nuts with that. Vitriol 21:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't expect an unaltered Japanese game available on the North American VC, but this makes a wonderful chance for Nintendo to translate old games that have long been region-exclusive Mightyhog 21:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

It's probably just for 50/60hz issues.Kirbysuperstar 14:19, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of region encoding, there appears to be nothing in the article about it. Even though I have heard that both the software and virtual console games will be region locked. I'm too lazy right now to write a paragraph about it so someone else should.SmartSped 07:59, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

From what I heard, first party games are reigon free, and Nintendo haven't decided about third party. Kirbysuperstar 13:43, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Nunchuk VS Wii Remote

I think there should be some indication on the page which games use the Nunchuk peripheral, or at least, games that are announced to use it. Knuckles sonic8 22:04, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

That is something that can go on individual game pages. TJ Spyke 22:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah In guess.. Knuckles sonic8 22:20, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Virtual Console

In the Virtual Console section it says something about "Wii Points" that are needed to buy the Virtual console and games for it. Can someone please explain in that section what Wii points are and how to earn them? - The preceding comment was made by Grevenko Sereth 19:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

They aren't needed, but can be used to buy gamnes and other things on the Wii shopping channel. You simply buy a $20USD wii points card at a retailer, and then you earn points every time you buy a game. hopes this helpes.--Ac1983fan^{(yell at me)} 11:49, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

50Hz or 60Hz

Does anyone know if the games will run at 50Hz or 60Hz? Or will there be a choice like on some gamecube games? --Ukdan999 11:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

It is likly that only PAL version games will have this choice.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.144.251.120 (talk • contribs)

price

hey i found out recently that the system costs $300 in a nintendo power mag— Preceding unsigned comment added by Tailsdollcurse (talk • contribs)

No it doesn't. TJ Spyke 19:11, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

300 of what country's dollars, sold in which country, after which political subdivision's taxes are added? --Damian Yerrick (☎) 19:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Ben Underwood

An editor recently added this, I don't think it's really notable enough to mention. What do others think? It's also not sourced. TJ Spyke 01:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

In itself it doesn't necessarily warrant the prominance it has been afforded within the article, though it does set an interesting precedent with respect to an individual being the first person to gain an anticipated console and said individiual being traceable. It wouldn't stand out anymore than something comprable on other systems though, i.e. the first Xbox console being sold by Bill Gates. I believe that the act of the console being given out is relevant enough, though it could be mentioned incidentially in the preceeding sections rather than on its own.

And it certainly needs to be cited as well. My vote is to keep it, though to integrate it within the article and place the importance on the actual dispersal of the console rather than on the individual who recieved it. Keep these things focused and pragmatic.Charles M. Reed 01:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

It certainly doesn't warrant its own heading. I say leave it out. It's trivia. Maybe the info would belong as a passing mention in a History of Wii article, but would just take up too much space in this article, even reduced to a short phrase. As trivia, it may be interesting, but is not important enough at all. Dancter 01:28, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Am I the only one who notices an inconsistancy with the apparent fact he can only see using echolocation and the apparent fact he got a games console? Y'know, using a screen? Vitriol 01:49, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, he seems to be a real person who uses echolocation by clicking. But my point still stands. Vitriol 01:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Considering that has been reported to be able to play some video games based on the game sounds, I have no reason to doubt the information. I still don't feel it belongs. Dancter 01:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Someone with skill should delete it or shorten it and put it somewhere else or something. Vitriol 02:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

At the most, this should be in a trivia section or something similiar. It should not be integrated into any of the other sections; it's not relevant at all to the product itself. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 02:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Wii Mote?

I'm sorry,the "Wii mote"?I was hopping the Nintendo Wii would have a Remote AND a Game Controller,but I guess I'm just dreaming on...Well,not that it's bad,I mean,it IS a good system,but..."WII" mote?Oh,and I've heard rumors of the Nintendo Wii lets you play and Original N64,SNES,NES,Gamecube game on it...Is that true?Conker The Squirrel 16:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Rumors? That was confirmed a long time ago.GrimRepr39 16:49, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

The Wii Remote (it bugs the hell out of me when people call it the Wiimote) IS a game controller. Sigh, it's bad enough putting up with trolls on messageboards. TJ Spyke 20:05, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

You know, to the person above....Its official name is the Wiimote. And to the person above the person above, I have heard that certain games are compatible with the gamecube controller as well. Specifically I read an article about the Dragonball Z Tenkaichi or whatever uses either the Wiimote or the Gamecube controller, it's the player's choice.... And something similar with Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Then again you can't trust everything you read....

Survey

You might want to look at this survey from —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GrimRepr39 (talk • contribs) .

Sensor bar, how it works

The sensor bar part of this article is technically unsound, inaccurate and out of date. I would like to change it to this:

"Contrary to its name, the sensor bar doesn't contain any sensors. Rather it has two infrared lights at the endpoints of the sensor bar. The controller contains an IR camera that, in much the same way as an optical mouse, looks for movements in its visual field. The sensor bar being the only strong IR emitter (hopefully) in the surroundings, gives a clear and distinct pattern to detect. Z axis detection i achieved by detecting whether the two IR lights are moving towards or away from each other. This absolute method of motion detection (as opposed to the relative achieved by a joystick or acceleration detection) gives superior precision and is complementary to the acceleration detection and gravity detection also present in the Wii controller."

Any objections? Frisenette 19:48, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a source to cite? --Maxamegalon2000 19:15, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Well for one Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Remote Also the IGN article that is linked to in the paragraph, where it is mentioned that the Wii controller contains a camera (although the author does not seem to understand what it means). I'm also sure Nintendo has said something official, although I can't seem to find it at the moment. Frisenette 20:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

OK. Feel free to correct this article with information from the IGN source and from Wii Remote, but make sure to bring in the citations from that article too. We don't want to be wrong, of course, but we need to be properly cited. --Maxamegalon2000 20:12, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the Wii Remote article doesn't cite sources for many of the claims, either. This has been an issue for months. As much as I'd like to, we're not supposed to be reading past what is stated in reputable sources. Unless there is a source stating what the camera is for, we can't say what the camera is for. Unless there is a source describing how Z axis detection i achieved, we can't included it. For the record, I think the technology works pretty much as you describe it, but I respect Wikipedia policy too much to ignore it, despite my opinions. As for the old text, I see nothing technically unsound or inaccurate about it. It may be ambiguous or incomplete, but there doesn't seem to be any incorrect facts at all. Dancter 20:35, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

What was unsound about the article was the claim that the sensor bar contained sensors, despite evidence to the contrary, and that it uses triangulation to get the 3d position of the Wii controller, despite 3d triangulation being impossible with only two sensors.

The paragraph from Wii controller article has plenty of citations to make it trustworthy. Frisenette 20:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

You're right. It's all in that last paragraph, which I'm amazed was allowed to creep in there. Anyway, I'm not going to revert your changes, but I am going to {{fact}}-tag it extensively. It's simply not sourced rigorously enough. Dancter 20:48, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

What was the source for the IR information? I think its clear that it does not have censors on the bar but still. But I don't like the suggest paragraph because it claims 'gravity' censor. If they were ICs there would be acceleromoeters and gyroscopometer, no 'gravity' censor?

Also its incorrect that the censor can't detect 3D because it only has 2 sources and therefore can't to triangulation. There are 4 IR emitter at each end, which are detected seperately by the camera. So infact there are 8 sources and triangulation is indeed possible. Also its unconfirmed but it appears the system can work with the bar vertical. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 155.144.251.120 (talk • contribs) 02:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The emitters all seem to be collinear, which would only provide one side of a triangle for any calculations. Even taking the accelerometer into account, it has not been shown that the sensors can provide all the information to definitively calculate a relative 3D position. Frisenette's claim that depth calculations can be calculated unambiguously doesn't take into account that the camera would read the points closer together when the controller is angled from the side, as well. Dancter 04:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe somebody should also put in something about the sensor being sunlight sensitive.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.130.207 (talk • contribs)

Where did you get this "info" from? TJ Spyke 06:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

It's been a big concern for a few days. Nintendo denies it to be a problem, though. Probably should get a mention, I guess. [9] --Maxamegalon2000 06:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I dont know how to cite sources, and it's locked for now, but someone should include info about the sensor bar and how sunlight interferes with it, and makes some games unplayable. It should be noticed that this isn't confirmed by Nintendo but it looked to be true. I read about it here- http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/09/sunlight-wiis-biggest-foe/ The anecdotal evidence is here http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/board/message?board.id=revolution&message.id=2065592 the stuff about the sunlight is #2 Also, I couldn't find anything about how halogen lights negatively react to the sensor bar either. There is only a small mention of it but it's there- http://gaming.engadget.com/2006/10/09/sunlight-disables-wii-sensor-bar/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.115.171.228 (talk • contribs) 08:01, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Pokémon Battle Revolution - Europe

Shouldn't it be listed as "Unknown", not "No"? As far as I know, it won't not be coming to Europe. In fact, there are a fair few games there that should be listed as "Unknown"...

I would edit it myself, but with this vandalism claim...

Guest 10:09, 8 October 2006 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.217.195.160 (talk • contribs) .

It's a list of launch titles. Pokemon Battle Revolution is definitely not going to be available at launch, so it's a "No". Sockatume 18:20, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I thought Reggie said in NYC (in the Q&A part) that Pokemon Battle Revolution will be a launch title in Japan... 74.111.14.37 20:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Clarifications on what is included in the purchase

The "Pricing" section should include exactly what is included in the price. I can understand that extra wiimotes, etc, come at another price, but what is included in the way of controllers, memory cards, and so forth...Stormx2 20:28, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Launch Titles?

There are 2 games that I know of (and there are probabaly more) that are not included in the list of launch titles. I know that Dragonball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 2 and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption are launch titles yet they are not on the list. I also think there are more missing from that list, why arnt these games included?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jarvisganon (talk • contribs)

Because they are no longer launch titles. MP3 was pushed back until 2007, and DBZ was pushes back to 2007 as well. TJ Spyke 00:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

NOTE TO WIKI: ADD SUPER MARIO GALAXY TO THE CONFIRMED LAUNCH GAMES> AAnd, Zelda: Twilight Princess. Thank you. :P (Sorry, posted in Linux by accident.)— Preceding unsigned comment added by SpawnLord (talk • contribs)

Super Mario Galaxy is not a launch title, where has NINTENDO (and not some rumor site like Kotaku or GoNintendo) say it was a launch title? TJ Spyke 04:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Linux

This just in the Wii runs linux http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/10/08/1754219.shtml This should be included int he article somehow..— Preceding unsigned comment added by RyanTMulligan (talk • contribs)

I don't see anything about linux in the article that slashdot links to, and the comments say it only a rumor http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=199749&cid=16358231 and http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=199749&cid=16359367— Preceding unsigned comment added by Logan GBA (talk • contribs)

Not to mention that neither Nintendo nor any RELIABLE site as said anything about it running Linux. Also, please sign your comments (both of you). TJ Spyke 18:41, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Its pretty standard for any CPU device to run some form of unix kernal. Doesnt mean it runs standard linux etc.--Dacium 07:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

The blogger who started the rumour has now admitted that it was a hoax.[10] --Safalra 18:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Wii remote with wii play in Australia

Is this a good enough source? http://www.aussie-nintendo.com/index.php?v=dates if so, can someone add it, as i dont know how to refer to sources --Idontgottaname 23:03, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Errm you mean Wii Play comes with a Wiimote. Wii sports comes with the console and its already listed.--Dacium 07:16, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Yep. Sorry bout that. fixed now --Idontgottaname 11:58, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Australia launch

User:Nova Prime has added Australian launch info, the problem is that it's not from Nintendo of Australia. It's from some site called palgn.com.au, should this be removed? TJ Spyke 06:33, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Why remove it? Palgn has ties to game stores and often has far superior info than what Nintendo Aus publish on their website. --Dacium 07:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I am not familiar with that site, so I don't know how reliable they are. TJ Spyke 07:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm a regular reader and I find that they are quite reliable, and the article I took the majority of the release dates from mentions they got the dates from Activision, EA, THQ and Ubi. And as Dacium said, Nintendo Australia are pretty hopeless. Nova Prime 07:29, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Nintendo Australia just sit on their asses all day and hope for the best. I've never seen the WFC site updated since before MP:H came out. PALGN, on the other hand is indeed a very reliable source. Kirbysuperstar 13:47, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

New Pictures of Wii Accessories

Today on October 11, 2006 on Vooks.net the first pictures of the wii accessories were released........buuuuuuuut due to the whole protection thing I am unable to put them on. I think they will improve the article and they need to put on to look at them go to http://www.vooks.net/modules.php?module=article&id=11048--Llamalord54321 00:31, 12 October 2006 (UTC)