Talk:Lone Wolf and Cub

First header

Note for people wanting to create an article on this in Portuguese: The title of the book in Brazil is "Lobo Solitário", and all names are in Western order (Itto Ogami) as opposed to the Japanese order that the English-language books use. Panini Comics publishes "Lobo Solitário" in Brazil. WhisperToMe 00:45, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

2002-2004 Series availability

The 2002-2004 television series is not available on DVD in Japan or anywhere else, why is it stated that it is readily available? This has been edited but then re-edited to incorrectly state a DVD release which is not backed up by any evidence.

The original series was released on DVD last december in Japan and is available in a box set. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Britpod (talk • contribs) 20:07, August 21, 2007 (UTC).

Image for Animanga Box

Just wanted to ask before I changed anything, but does anyone else think that an image from the manga should be placed in the image section of the animanga info box, since the box itself is about the manga series? I had originally placed one in there, but if necessary I could place a better image of the manga artwork if the first is felt to be an inadequate representation. Gundam785|Talk 04:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually this is better than the first one, you have a better image? Or why not put the manga cover in there as in other articles? We already have that uploaded. - Ajshm 10:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Image for Animanga Box

Suggest we divide this into MAGNA and SCREEN ADAPTIONS. As the disclaimer says; this is an article about the manga.

--TTwist 09:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Romanisation of Japanese Title

Shouldn't that read "Kotsure Ōkami", "Carrying-Children-Wolf"? Apologies if I'm wrong, my Japanese is quite weak! - 60.36.46.80 06:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

It does come from 子 "ko" plus 連れる "tsureru" but the "tsu" is altered to "zu" when the two are put together, so "kozure" is correct.

There are more than one romanization scheme for japanese, though. Using "zu" reflects pronunciation, but doesn't let you know which kana to use: it could be a modified "tsu" or a modified "su". Another system, the one used in japanese education, would use "du" for a modified "tsu" and "zu" for a modified "su". In this system, "kodure" would be used, and indeed you'll get related hits on Google using "kodure ookami". Those hits are less numerous that with "kozure ookami", though, and seem to mainly refer to a game using that character. I think the title of the page should stay "kozure ookami" Alestane 21:47, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Sono chīsaki te ni

The article gives "A Child's Hand Reaches Up" as a literal translation, which may be good in context but doesn't seem literal to me. I understand the japanese to mean "In that little hand." Before I go ahead and correct it in the article, does anyone know where the "A Child's Hand Reaches Up" comes from? Alestane 21:58, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be an alternate title. I'll edit the main page. Alestane

There's a new videogame

See [1] and related videos. --HanzoHattori 20:38, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

One more film, or two

There is what could be called one more film. Like Shogun Assassin, it was a dubbed compilation. It was released to USA theaters in the mid-1970s under the title Lightning Swords of Death and showed on premium cable (I saw it on Cinemax) in the 1980s. Like Shogun Assassin it included the origin flashback from the first film. In the 1990s, there was a video release, Lupine Wolf (dubbed and panned & scanned), which I read somewhere was an essentially intact version of Lone Wolf and Cub: Baby Cart to Hades, but retitled, dubbed and P&Sed. In the film box here, that entry is given the alternative title Shogun Assassin II: Lightning Swords of Death, but the origin sequence is not part of LW, so that isn't simply a video release of LSoD. Furthermore, I've never heard of any of the last four of these films being repackaged as Shogun Assassin [number]: [subtitle]. Where does this come from? --Tbrittreid (talk) 23:23, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Spoiler tag?

I'd suggest adding a spoiler tag on "Plot Summary", as it spoils the whole plot, including the ending. XKuei (talk) 03:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Per WP:SPOILER and WP:NDA, there are no "spoiler" disclaimers in articles. Besides, someone who doesn't realize that a plot summary will contain possible "spoilers" is a complete idiot. —Farix (t | c) 10:52, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, what I meant is that, from my own point of view, Plot Summaries as a whole are spoiling stories in a way that's pretty much non-enciclopedic. I mean, one thing is informational richness; people want to know every detail on say, Napoleonic Wars. Another thing, though, is a "Plot Summary" for an entertainment product that essentially tells the history in the products stead. I hope you understand that while I'm no idiot, I'd be very pleased to get actual Summaries or synopsis instead of the entirety of the plot of a given movie/book the way Wikipedia articles currently do. Xkuei (talk) 18:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

File:Ogamidaigoro.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Person of interest

little did he know that "Person of interest" its a TV show mystery solved 72.185.61.209 (talk) 09:44, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Unless there's a connection to the manga that I'm not seeing this is still misplaced in the article on the manga Lone Wolf and Cub.
What I've done instead is adding a so-called hatnote at the page Wolf and Cub: If anyone searches for the TV episode, they will end up at that page and see the appropriate pointer. It's not likely that anyone will be on this page looking for the episode.
Amalthea 10:02, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

you aided so called hat note for some rock band? what is the point of that? 72.185.61.209 (talk) 10:06, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

See WP:HATNOTE for reasoning. Amalthea 10:10, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

yes there is connection to this glorified manga. not only in the name but also in the theme of that episode. 72.185.61.209 (talk) 10:07, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Is the comic mentioned directly in the episode? Or is this your interpretation? If the latter, we would need to find a reliable source that comes to the same conclusion. Amalthea 10:10, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

its not my interpretation. that episode is themed after the manga which is shown there as well.

72.185.61.209 (talk) 10:16, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Source for translated titles

It appears from the talk threads here that translation for the film titles was done by Wikipedia editors.

Would it be better to use a reliable source for this? For example, the DVDs from AmiEigo provide translated titles. I have not seen all of the AmiEigo versions but did note these titles:

First off - AmiEigo translates 子連れ狼 as "Lone Wolf and Cub" rather than the more literal "Wolf with Child in Tow" the article uses. I personally would have translated this as "Wolf with Child" as I don't see a "tow" as in "牽引で子連れ狼".

1 The article has "Child and Expertise for Rent" while AmiEigo has the same "Child and Expertise for Rent."

3. The article has "Baby Cart Against the Winds of Death" while AmiEigo used "Perambulator Against the Winds of Death."

4. The article used "The Heart of a Parent, the Heart of a Child" while AmiEigo used "Heart of the Parent, Heart of the Child." AmiEigo's translation seems closer to "親の心子の心" which I read as "Heart of the parent; Heart of a child."

6. The article used "Now We Go to Hell, Daigoro!" while AmiEigo used "Daigoro! We're off to Hell!." I likely would have translated "地獄へ行くぞ!大五郎" as "Daigoro! We'll go to hell!" but I can see why AmiEigo used "We're off to Hell!"

I never saw discs #2 and #5 in the series and so don't know how AmiEigo translated the titles.

2. The article uses "Baby Cart of the River of Sanzu." I would translate "三途の川の乳母車" as "Pram at the Sanzu River" and for this series it makes sense to use "Baby Cart at the Sanzu River." The common English title, "Baby Cart at the River Styx", is an excellent translation as "三途の川" is the Sanzu River which is the Japanese version of the River Styx.

5. I would translate "冥府魔道" as "Road to the Land of Demons" but I'm find with "Land of Demons."

Note that those AmiEigo translations were from discs they released around 2003. It's possible they have re-done the titles within the DVDs as this page uses the standard English titles. The AmiEigo I mentioned above showed on the screen when the Japanese titles were showing. Someone with a recently purchased full box set could verify this. --Marc Kupper|talk 01:44, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

I'd suggest removing all of the translations. It is not much more than self-indulgence to include these. If it has an English title then that is probably enough. There is no particular reason why a Wikipedia article has to provide a precise translation of the name into English and it doesn't really add anything to the article. The individual film article might want to have the translation, if it is quite different in meaning from the title the film is released in in English, but generally it's hardly necessary and having these things is more to do with wikipedians showing off about how they can translate from Japanese rather than actually giving information about the films. JoshuSasori (talk) 02:02, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Gomune Oyuki - reason episode was suppressed

The article currently reads: "All of these releases excluded the deleted from distribution 2nd episode "Gomune Oyuki". It is unclear as to why this episode is no longer made available."

The reason is clear: socially/politically embarrassing subject matter.

The episode dealt with the gomune who, during the Edo period, were of the class of people legally strongly discriminated against as outcasts called eta during feudal times. During modern times there were/are outcasts called burakumin. The status given to burakumin can be compared to the Hindu 'untouchables' - or maybe to African Americans before the Civil Rights Movement except that it wasn't race issue but a caste you could look up on a national family registry into the mid 70s.

There was much public and political awareness of burakumin around the 60s, particularly the late 60s to mid 70s. Takeda Lullaby is a song that was quietly banned from broadcast by major Japansese broadcasters for its political associations as a burakumin song. Even into the late 1990s burakumin were not a matter for polite discussion.

My sources don't state whether or not the broadcaster considered the content inflammatory and let it be shown anyway, didn't think it was inflammatory or didn't know the content at all. They also don't state if the broadcaster decided on its own to suppress the episode or if it was prompted to suppress it by public response or political pressure.

Naturally, if I had good written references to include I would edit the article but maybe someone will be prompted by this note to investigate. Waerloeg (talk) 06:40, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. This sounds like a plausible explanation, but the question arises as to why then is/was the 4th feature film, which is based on the same manga story and features the eta, not banned as well? It has been released on DVD in Japan and in other regions without issue. Chanbara (talk) 11:44, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome. Here's some speculation as to why the film is around freely but the tv episode isn't. While I used banned to describe Takeda Lullaby above I've used the word "suppressed" here rather than "banned". Bans are imposed formally by governments but the episode was suppressed by the broadcaster itself so far as my readings indicated, no mention of an act of law being involved.

• 1 The tv episode content contains something someone finds objectionable that isn't in the other medium (e.g., perhaps someone is portrayed worse in the tv show than the film)
• 2 The rights are owned by different companies and distributed different ways

• they have different opinions on what is proper
• they are subject to different amounts of pressure from the public, politicians etc. As I mentioned, major Japanese broadcasters quietly banned Takeda Lullaby and the tv series was broadcast on a major network.
• films weren't and aren't all that often re-released so it wasn't deemed necessary to take action while tv shows were expected to be syndicated or re-run so action was deemed necessary.

• 3 Once a decision to suppress has been made, unless the DVD producer makes a mistake or takes matters into his own hand, even if the reason for suppression no longer exists someone in authority has to actively make a decision to reverse the suppression.

• The person who makes that decision then has to be prepared to justify that decision if objections about the reversal later arise. Sometimes it's easier not to make waves.
• It's completely possible that people in positions of authority today were juniors in the same company when the episode was suppressed and they share the opinions that led to the suppression.
• Having never been suppressed, no one has had to go to the bother to unsuppress the film.

• 4 The film was released before the tv show and things had changed. Maybe the burakumin crisis was rising, maybe the film primed people to a hair trigger and they were incensed.
• 5 Maybe fewer people saw the film series and so less offense was caused

• people expect films to be more avant garde and daring than tv shows which is why films have content that is often edited out for tv

• 6 No one involved in the DVD release or any rebroadcast of the tv show has been motivated enough to start the ball rolling on how to go about releasing the episode.

• It's easy to omit one episode out of 27 or 79 but it's harder to miss one film out of 6.
• The tape may or may not be with the others. It could be misplaced or might not even exist any more.

I think different content and different standards applied by different people is amply sufficient to explain why the film exists in DVD form but apathy about including it is also possible. The show was about 30 years old when the last DVD set was released and it hasn't got the fan base to generate Star Trek like nerd rage. AnimEigo (who released the tv series DVDs) still exists so someone could email them and ask why they didn't include the episode. Waerloeg (talk) 15:09, 24 February 2016 (UTC)