Talk:Nazi Party

The National Socialist German Workers' Party was leftist, not rightist

Sorry but this statement is inaccurate "The National Socialist German Workers' Party (German: About this sound Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (help·info), abbreviated NSDAP), commonly referred to in English as the Nazi Party (/ˈnɑːtsi/), was a far-right political party in Germany that was active between 1920 and 1945 and practised the ideology of Nazism. Its precursor, the German Workers' Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei; DAP), existed from 1919 to 1920." The Nazi party is LEFT-WING ideology, as many of the posters on this 'talk page' point out. The thesis that because this is a common mistake in common parlance and in literature does not mean that it is correct to reinforce the mistake with continued misrepresentation. The facts are that the leftist policies of the Nazi party are clear to those who care to read about it. Wikipedia does a disservice to understanding history to refer to the Nazi party as 'right-wing'. There were no right-wing policies of the Nazi's save two: patriotism and respect for tradition. These are not exclusively Right-Wing policies, only the ones Nazism and current right-wing adherents share. The policies the Nazi's shared with the left-wing adherents share are more numerous and salient. These are: Social equality and egalitarianism, an opposition to society inequalities - especially financial, and opposition to tiers in society such as castes. Nazis and Left-wingers are radicals, reformists, and revolutionary.

For sources try searching Wikipedia: Left wing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.62.53.207 (talk) 19:05, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Patriotism is not a right-wing policy. The word you're looking for is "nationalism". 47.185.39.179 (talk) 00:44, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Please fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.62.53.207 (talk) 19:02, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Content is based on what reliable sources say. While the opinion you suggest is found on many websites expressing fringe views, that is not how experts see it. TFD (talk) 20:42, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Calling Nazis left-wing is close to mockery towards the thousands of communist/socialist victims of Nazism.

Completely agree. Socialism in its very definition is left wing. Therefore this whole page is considered factually incorrect and has no merit. Flyingpenguin74 (talk) 04:55, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

And furthermore it is NOT making a mockery towards the thousands of socialists as those that were victims ie sent to camps in 1933 I know personally were those that opposed Hitler and why he lost the national elections twice. Hitler used the Sturmabteilung to create chaos and violence towards opponents and as the Sturmabteilung were mainly ex soldiers from WW1 would then restore order as the Police were not as well organised or prepared for such circumstances. And as such once Hitler was chancellor in 1933 the camps were opened and his opposition imprisoned. Flyingpenguin74 (talk) 05:52, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Right wing?

The last time i checked, socialism is a far left wing ideology. Rancoridge333 (talk) 13:48, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Please read the FAQ found at the top of this very page for more information. (Or click here). — nihlus kryik  (talk) 13:49, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Socialism is not considered a far left ideology. TFD (talk) 05:57, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Socialism, fascism, and to a specific notice, Nazism are all far left ideologies, as was the concept of pro-slavery by the confederacy during the American Civil War. Any claim of the Nazi party being "right wing" is false, as the Nazis were extremely left wing. Fascism itself is defined as a left wing ideology, not associated with the right wing. Right wing ideologies favor capitalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pietric Learning Stone (talk • contribs) 13:04, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Fascism was pro-capitalist and Ludwig von Mises was the chief economic adviser to the Austrian fascists. Slavery too was capitalist as it was defended by property rights. I agree though that socialists, who were the only ones who did not vote to give Hitler absolute power, were left wing. TFD (talk) 14:42, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Pietric Learning Stone - Please read the prior discussions on this subject on this talk page, including [1] Archive 6 and the "Frequently asked questions" section, as well. Kierzek (talk) 15:04, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Overlinking

“anti-semitism” (and its variants- anti-semitic, etc.)is linked a lot in the article, which following the manual of style probably should be avoided, so should we change that? Also I assume other terms are probably overlinked as well. SimplicityWalrus (talk) 14:29, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Go ahead and check the article; it happens, usually when additions occur to sections and editors don't realize something has been already linked or it happens due to editors not knowing, there should be one link to something in the lead and one link at its first mention in the body of an article. Kierzek (talk) 18:17, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2017

I was reading about left wing socialist policies recently and then decided to check the wiki. Why does Nazi party is described as being right wing, even though there was almost nothing right wing in it, especially in terms of what they were advocating for?

That makes little sense and looks like someone tried to redifine the meaning.

By that logic, US republicans should be socialists or advocating for only one race, since they too are labeled “right-wing”. But that is incorrect, because their economic and racial policies are completely opposite of that. So, what gives? Who labebeled Nazi party of Germany left wing and where is the source that indicates that? Sunamer (talk) 22:13, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

• We have a FAQ at the beginning of this page. Dave Dial (talk) 22:54, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Because what articles say is based on reliable sources not uninformed people such as yourself. If you want to argue that Nazis were left-wing, the moon landing was faked and Barack Obama was born in Kenya, then go to a conspiracy theory website. TFD (talk) 00:46, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

TFD please remember WP:BITE, the response above yours was sufficient. Darkstar1st (talk) 15:27, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Not sure I agree, Darkstar1st. The amount of times people come to these articles just to complain Nazis were left-wing is disproportionally high. Most of them want to want to make a point without actually trying to build a Wiki and should be told in no unclear terms that that's not appropriate behaviour here. Besides, if they look one or two sections above theirs, they'll know why the article is the way it is. PS: I do think personal attacks should be avoided at all times, of course. Prinsgezinde (talk) 21:42, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

True, what is the solution? the previous post provided the faq. the mass of wikipedians are uninformed, as well as the readers, it is the very reason they are here, to become informed. belittling someone's perceived lack of information does not seem helpful to me.Darkstar1st (talk) 18:35, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

National Socialism or Nazism?

@Carptrash: @Helper201: Take the discussion here. GaiusoftheJulii (talk) 23:27, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

If you wish to use "National Socialism" instead of "Nazism", then the more appropriate action would be to request a move of the Nazism article. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:24, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

That has been tried before (more than once) but it always falls foul of WP:COMMONNAME. Nazism is almost always called Nazism in English speaking countries. This is the term used in most English language books on the subject. Generally the term "National Socialism" is not widely understood. (This is the reverse of the way it runs in German speaking countries which is why the German language Wikipeda articles are different.) In the past we have had people wanting to change it in order to further a bizarre political agenda that seeks to conflate Nazism with unrelated left wing ideologies, either in a ham fisted attempt to rehabilitate Nazism in some way, or else to taint the left by association with it. I do not think that renaming the article would aid anybody's understanding of the subject.

So, I think the long-standing consensus is that it is fine as it is. Anybody following the link to Nazism will be told that "National Socialism", "Nationalsozialismus" and "Nazism" are all names for the same thing in the very first sentence. Anybody searching for National Socialism will be redirected to the Nazism article. Anybody looking for other stuff with similar names will find a link to National Socialism (disambiguation) which lists a depressing number of Nazi influenced organisations as well as a few other unfortunate organisations that just happen to have similar names. In short: I think that we have the correct articles with the correct names in order to provide our readers with the information they want under the titles they most expect to find it. --DanielRigal (talk) 02:14, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME applies. Also clearly given the English Wikipedia article name it is the appropriate one to use. No consensus to change it. Kierzek (talk) 04:34, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2018

nazis were socialist work party, they were leftist. I know the modern left hate that, but it does not change the fact 81.234.198.202 (talk) 23:52, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done You know, you could've just took a glance at this page before posting the request. The FAQ is also helpful. byteflush _Talk 00:07, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Nazi Party was a party of the far right?

In the context of the political spectrum in Germany at the time the Nazi Party's rise and dominance, the parties of the right favored rule by the old establised elites, with a significant group at the far right of the spectrum favoring a return to monarchy. The views of the true far right in Germany at this time are millions of miles away from the views of the Nazi party. At the end of the day, however, lableing the Nazi Party as a party of the far right comes down to one's definition of the term "far right." Upon examination, it will emerge that people who want this article to say that the Nazi Party was of the far right are engaged in a circular defition of the term.

This statement has no place in this article. The motivation of those who want it in the article is to denigrate the modern political right. Dsteakley (talk) 20:41, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

• The motivations of those that are reverting you are that they understand that the overwhelming consensus of scholars/sources label the Nazi Party as right-wing. Read the FAQ. Dave Dial (talk) 20:48, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Please cite this alleged overwhelming consensus. I have read the FAQ. This claim is complete nonsense. No one in Germany in the 20s, 30s and 40s would have described the Nazis as a party of the right. Dsteakley (talk) 20:55, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

I mean, seriously. Next you'll be claiming that the Soviet Union was far right. Dsteakley (talk) 20:59, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

There are two key defining characteristics of the far right in Germany during this period: a desire to restore the monarchy, and a reverence for the church. Hitler and the Nazis embraced neither of these positions, and in fact were violently opposed to these positions. Dsteakley (talk) 21:04, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

We are not making this stuff up ourselves or promoting a fringe view here. This really is what the post 1945 mainstream academic consensus is. Even most right wing historians agree with it. If you doubt this then go to a library and checkout some reliable mainstream history books, such as the ones we use as references.

You make a partially correct point when you talk about how Nazism was viewed before 1939. The Nazis sought to confuse people as to their real nature and pretended to be left, right and "third way" when they thought this would suit their purposes. The key point here is that Nazis lie. Nothing they say can be taken at face value. If Hitler says that the sky is blue you stick your head out the window to check.

Finally, please don't worry that anybody is calling normal right wing people Nazis. Nobody is doing that! Nazis are an extreme, weird and pathological case. Normal right wing people are not Nazis. Normal left wing people are not Stalinists. Most fish are not sharks.

(Oh, and I did once know a few socialists who were very adamant that the Soviet Union was really right wing from Stalin onwards. They were wrong too.) --DanielRigal (talk) 21:06, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

No serious scholar would engage in the extremely pointless discussion of whether the nazis were right wing or left wing. If you can cite a serious scholar who actually takes up this point in writing, please cite it, or stop claiming that you can do so. Note that I am not arguing that the article should say that the Nazis were a party of the left. That would be as false and inappropriate as what this article currently says. And what on earth could be the basis for a claim that, in the context of Germany at the time, the Nazis were viewed as right wing?? And if that's not the point of having this in the article, if the point is that modern left wing chuckleheads cast the Nazis as a part of the right, that is totally inappropriate. Dsteakley (talk) 21:14, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

I enjoy a good debate as much as the next man. And this is my first ride on this wikpedia editing dispute train. I cannot imagine how what we are doing right now is going to resolve this situation. How is this process supposed to resolve this dispute? Dsteakley (talk) 21:15, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Dude! Are you really convinced that this is something we just made up? That it is something that just dropped from the sky? I can assure you that you have it completely backwards. The bizarre idea that the Nazis were left wing has only really started making noise in the last few years. 10 years ago almost nobody had heard of it. Just a few people thought otherwise and were regarded as pretty out there. Even now, if I mention the idea to people here in the UK they look at me blankly and assume that anybody trying to recast the Nazis must themselves be Nazis trying to rehabilitate their ideology.

Anyway, you want sources. The best thing is to check out the sources used on the Nazism article which covers this in more depth. --DanielRigal (talk) 21:28, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Dude! just give me one source for this specific false claim, that the Nazis were a party of the far right. You keep claiming you can do it, but you keep failing to do so. I've read literally hundreds of books and articles about the Nazis. I don't need a general list of references about the Nazis. Just please give me your best, most credible source for this extremely specific point, or please stop claiming that you can do so. And, again, I am not arguing that the Nazis should be described as a party of the left. Surprising no one, there is no source cited for this false claim in the article. Dsteakley (talk) 21:34, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Here's an article from the Mises Institute which refutes the false claim made in this FAQ that the Nazi regime was a capitalist regime. Dsteakley (talk) 21:38, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Dude. Here is one. A start. https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Nazism-considered-far-right-in-political-terms Also here is your institute https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mises-daily/ Carptrash (talk) 21:49, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

with all due respect, i thought you promised me a scholar who would advocate for this baseless (and pointless) position. a chucklehead on Quora is not what I would describe as highly persuasive. Dsteakley (talk) 22:00, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Please show me where I promised you anything. Carptrash (talk) 22:03, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

I apologize, I assumed incorrectly that your comment had been posted by DanielRigal. Dsteakley (talk) 22:05, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

If you want to discuss anything anywhere on wikipedia please learn to use :, and then more of them, at the beginning of your posts. Also this thread is a no go. it has been debated many times over the past decade. We are not really interested in doing it again. Carptrash (talk) 22:08, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

well, thanks! you can also go pound sand. I was advised to come here and discuss and resolve the dispute. But, as I thought, there is no possibility of resolving the dispute by this means. I am not interested in anything you have to say. Dsteakley (talk) 22:12, 18 February 2018 (UTC)