Talk:LGBTQ

Harvey Milk

Harvey Milk was one of the most important LGBT heroes.

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Requested move 14 February 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 18:20, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

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LGBT → LGBTQ – "LGBT" was certainly the predominant form at the time this article was created, but there's since been a solid and well-documented shift, and "LGBTQ" is clearly the most common standard now. To be clear, I don't think it would be helpful to move this article every time another subgroup comes along to add another letter to the alphabet soup that the most extended permutations have turned into — "K" for "kinky" being the newest — but the most common base form seen in standard sources now pretty consistently includes Q. Bearcat (talk) 17:59, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose, per WP:Common name and the 2017 discussion now located at Talk:LGBT/Archive 1#Changing title to LGBTQ+. I see no proof that "LGBTQ is clearly the most common standard now." And proof has yet to be demonstrated. Whether it's LGBT topics in the media, such as when reporting on LGBT characters, or the news reporting on LGBT people, "LGBT" is still the standard. And it's still the standard in literature sources I come across. It also has a rich and solid history, as the LGBT article is clear about, while all these alternatives do not. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 19:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

We are not going to start renaming our LGBT articles and lists (such as LGBT history, LGBT community, LGBT rights by country or territory, and LGBT stereotypes) to include the "Q". Same goes for our LGBT categories. Moving this article to "LGBTQ" would make people think that we should since we should ideally be consistent across the project. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 19:35, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. There has been a shift in the usage of LGBTQ, especially in colleges and at the tip of the politico-cultural vanguard, and from where I sit, it's gaining ground. However, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and by its nature follows general usage, it does not take the lead in causing or driving change. As of 2008, usage of LGBTQ in books was on the rise, but still lagged well behind LGBT, which seemed to be gaining ground even faster than LGBTQ in published sources. With attempts to include questioning, intersex, agender, allies, pangender, and perhaps others, many other initialisms are attested, and some at the bleeding edge of change might see LGBTQ as already hopelessly inadequate. It's perfectly okay for Wikipedia to report on any of these terms inside an article, given adequate reliable sources. Given sufficient notability, one might even be able to make a case for a separate LGBTQ article, but imho that would be highly likely to turn into a content fork as it covers the same ground, and thus is not a good idea. WP:COMMONNAME says ..some topics have multiple names, ... this can lead to disagreement about which name should be used for a given article's title. Wikipedia generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources). By that standard, LGBT seems to be the leader for the time being. If and when it can be demonstrated that LGBTQ has clearly replaced it by the same standard, the article should be renamed. Mathglot (talk) 21:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you're wrong: usage of the Q has tipped past "the vanguard" and into widespread general usage already. Sources plainly show this: The Globe and Mail, which is hardly a "vanguard" sort of place that jumps on early bandwagons ahead of the general public, uses LGBTQ. CBC News uses LGBTQ. The Daily Mail, probably the last place on earth that would ever embrace "radical political correctness" at all, uses LGBTQ. Rogers Sportsnet uses LGBTQ (and if sports channels, which have never been in the vanguard of anything LGBTQ-related, are routinely adding the Q, then the debate's beyond done.) Outsports: LGBTQ. National Public Radio, LGBTQ. Global News, LGBTQ. Forbes: LGBTQ. CTV News: LGBTQ. BBC News: LGBTQ. Billboard: LGBTQ. Vox: LGBTQ. Los Angeles Times: LGBTQ. Out: LGBTQ. NBC News: LGBTQ. The New York Times: LGBTQ. Chicago Tribune: LGBTQ. And on and so forth: these are gold standard sources for Wikipedia content at all times, such that if these sources have made the shift, the shift is done — these are not "radical" sources that make "innovative" linguistic choices in advance of common usage, but sources of record that reflect common usage. News organizations like CBC, BBC, NBC, The New York Times, NPR and Forbes are trailing indicators of a shift that has already happened, not sources that have anything whatsoever to do with the "tip of the politico-cultural vanguard". Bearcat (talk) 05:29, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Bearcat, all of those sources also use "LGBT." If you were pointing to sections of the sites, or statements from the sites, stating that they use "LGBTQ" only, that would be different. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 07:15, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose in the absence of any evidence that the 'Q' is now usually present. It is currently far from clear exactly how this will play itself out over the coming years. It is not a settled issue, but it is sometimes quite a contentious one, and Wikipedia should not be seen as taking a position on it. It may also be worth noting that even among those who prefer to tack the 'Q' on the end, there isn't consensus on what that letter stands for. We probably shouldn't be renaming articles—or whole groups of articles and categories, more like it—using an initialism that doesn't even have an agreed-upon meaning. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 01:36, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose as above. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 10:44, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. LGBT is standard, common and most often used with the Q or the plus. CookieMonster755✉ 04:08, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

That it's most often used with the Q, which is true, is somehow a reason for us to use it without the Q that is most often used? Bearcat (talk) 05:29, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose as per above and COMMONNAME, No need to move every time a letter is created or whatever. –Davey2010^Talk 21:47, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. "Queer" is still an extremely controversial term within the LGBT community. Isseubnida (talk) 02:08, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

LGBT: Media

Hello, I've have read the wiki article on LGBT in general and I haven't noticed any heading or section on media portrayal in the article. I've seen it on other articles that are related to this article and I wish to add a media section this main article as I feel it's an important part of the community.Please tell me if you agree or disagree and why.16:18, 11 April 2018 (UTC)TaterTrotz1 (talk)