Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

This page provides a place to discuss new items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page (see past items in the ITN archives). Do not report errors in ITN items that are already on the Main Page here— discuss those at the relevant section of WP:ERRORS.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section – it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.

Joseph Aoun Joseph Aoun (pictured) is elected president of Lebanon after a two-year vacancy. A series of wildfires in Southern California, United States, leaves at least 10 people dead and forces nearly 180,000 others to evacuate. A 7.1-magnitude earthquake hits Tingri County in the Tibet Autonomous Region, China, leaving at least 126 people dead. Indonesia becomes a full member of BRICS. Justin Trudeau announces his intention to resign as prime minister of Canada. Ongoing: Israel–Hamas war Russian invasion of Ukraine timeline Sudanese civil war timeline Recent deaths: Jeff Baena Rosita Missoni Brian Matusz Jean-Michel Defaye Ágnes Keleti Ripken view — page history — related changes — edit

Glossary Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story. Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story. A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles. Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage. The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death. All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality. Nomination steps Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards. Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually – a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC). Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate. Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready! You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination. The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted. Headers When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria. Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A. If satisfied, change the header to (Posted). Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted). Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled). Voicing an opinion on an item Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated. Please do... Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page. Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible. Please do not... Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself. Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive. Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest. Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s). Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. Discuss them here. Use ITN as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome and are potentially disruptive. Suggesting updates There are two places where you can request corrections to posted items: Anything that does not change the intent of the blurb (spelling, grammar, markup issues, updating death tolls etc.) should be discussed at WP:Errors. Discuss major changes in the blurb's intent or very complex updates as part of the current ITNC nomination.

Suggestions

May 25

Portal:Current events/2018 May 25

May 25, 2018 (2018-05-25) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2018 Noblesville West Middle School shooting A shooting at the Noblesville West Middle School in Noblesville, Indiana, United States, leaves two people injured. One suspect is in custody. (Business Insider) Business and economy Economy of the European Union EU finance ministers reach an agreement on reforming bank capital rules. (Reuters) Economy of Colombia The OECD member countries admit Colombia as its 37th member. (Xinhua) Economy of Italy The yield spread between the Italian and German 10-year government bonds rises to over 2% for the first time in a year, due to the political uncertainty. (El País) Disasters and accidents Transport in Uganda 48 people die in an accident involving a tractor, a bus and a truck in Kiryandongo, Western Region. (Africa News) 2018 lower Puna eruption A magnitude 4.4 earthquake occurs at Kīlauea. (CBS News) International relations Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action A senior Iranian official asks European powers to come up with a "Plan B" before the end of May, so that Iran may decide 'within weeks' whether to stay in the agreement. (Reuters) 2018 North Korea–United States summit U.S. President Donald Trump tweets that "very productive talks" are being held with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un on reinstating the June 12 Singapore summit, which he had cancelled Thursday. (BBC) Law and crime General Data Protection Regulation GDPR rules come into effect in the European Union. Several U.S. news sites are subsequently taken offline in the United Kingdom and Europe, including the Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune and Lee Enterprises newspapers. (The Independent) Austrian privacy organization NOYB files complaints to regulators in four EU countries alleging that Facebook, Google, Instagram, and WhatsApp are violating the GDPR. (Reuters) (BBC News) Harvey Weinstein sexual abuse allegations After surrendering to the NYPD, film producer Harvey Weinstein is formally charged with rape and other sexual abuse offences involving two women. (BBC News) Police in India state that mobs have killed three people after social media warned of roaming gangs of child kidnappers. They say that there is no evidence of such gangs. (Tampa Bay Times) Bulgarian customs agents seize 191 kilograms (421 lb) of heroin in transit for Belgium and the Netherlands at the border with Turkey. The drugs, with a street value of €6 million, were hidden under tile glue and detected by a sniffer dog. (The Washington Post) Politics and elections Politics of Spain, Gürtel case The opposition Socialist Workers' Party presents a motion of no confidence against Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy following the publication of the sentence in the Gürtel corruption scandal, which involved the ruling PP. (El Mundo) (The Guardian) The Citizens party gives an ultimatum to Rajoy to call snap elections or otherwise they'll support the motion of no confidence. (La Vanguardia) (The New York Times) Rajoy reaffirms that he will not resign, nor call elections and that the motion of no confidence is bad for the stability of the country. (El País) Barbadian general election, 2018 The Barbados Labour Party, entering the election as the opposition party, wins all 30 seats in the House of Assembly. Mia Mottley becomes the first female Prime Minister of Barbados. (Reuters) Politics of the Democratic Republic of the Congo Moïse Katumbi and Félix Tshisekedi, two major opposition figures in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, issue a joint statement; they discuss choosing a single candidate to run in the presidential election now scheduled for December 23. (Bloomberg) Russian presidential election, 2024 Russian President Vladimir Putin says that he will respect the Russian constitution and step down when his term expires in 2024. (Reuters) Thirty-sixth Amendment of the Constitution Bill 2018 Ireland holds a referendum which will decide whether to repeal the constitutional prohibition of abortion. Exit polls suggest the results shall be 68% "yes" and 32% "no". The results will be released at 09:00 UTC tomorrow. (The Irish Times), (BBC News) Science and technology 2018 Atlantic hurricane season Subtropical Storm Alberto becomes the first named storm of the 2018 Atlantic hurricane season. It formed at the western Caribbean Sea and is expected to move north of the Gulf of Mexico later in the weekend. (The Weather Channel)

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2018 Mississauga restaurant bombing

Article: 2018 Mississauga restaurant bombing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 15 people are injured in a bombing in Ontario, Canada. (Post)
News source(s): [1] [2]
Credits:

• Nominated by Lihaas (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: VERY long shot (i myself questioned if it needs an article), but i believe we posted a london attack w/ no deaths. We posted the van attack recently, so it might be construed as not "rare". No urgent update on their website, considering police have shut it for investigations [3].As Nominators are usually considered "supports," consider this as a weak support. I've organized the page a bit, and added something, btw. Lihaas (talk) 12:08, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose stub. "Background" section references van attack that has not in any way been linked to this attack. "Reactions" section typical wall of flags offering no value (though when the US president blames MS-13, or "muslims", or whatever Fox and Fiends tells him to blame, that'll be worth adding for the LOLz). --LaserLegs (talk) 12:12, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Background is b/c of the location periphery (i moved it from "See also")\ within the wider toronto area (maybe a canuck can confirm that).

Reaction is b/c of pertinence w/ trudeau's visit to india and the Khalistan controversy.

My question is would you support it based on the situation (obviously page will expand, it was just a few hours ago).Lihaas (talk) 12:15, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm from southern Ontario, "See also" is fine, fit's the golden horseshoe region. It's in the news today, I generally support stories which are in the news with a quality article. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:19, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. I just wanted to get a bearing.Lihaas (talk) 12:24, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

EU's General Data Protection Regulation

Article: General Data Protection Regulation (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The European Union's General Data Protection Regulation goes into effect, imposing strict privacy controls for European citizens worldwide. (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: The GDPR while only covering European users has significant worldwide implications since it can fine non-EU companies for failing to protect EU citizen data. That's while you've likely been getting tons of "we've updated our T&Cs" even if you're not European over the last few days. Masem (t) 00:09, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose too many missing refs, too late in the day to tag them all now. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:22, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support the article is okay and everyone's probably confused and annoyed by the constant WE'VE UPDATED OUR PRIVACY POLICY spam.  Nixinova  T  C  04:28, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support it is important enough, and the sourcing looks good enough. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:31, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support affects a lot of people. Banedon (talk) 05:10, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose the article is littered with unreferenced statements. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:25, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - The entire world will be affected by this change of EU scandal. It's from the uprise of Zuckenburg Facebook scandal. Privacy laws like this will require all data-involving apps especially social medias to update themselves, and especially Facebook will be affected. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 06:24, 25 May 2018 (UTC) Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 06:30, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support article in sufficient state; not fac. Significant impact globally. —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap sh*t room} 06:37, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - Blurb-worthy, postable. Jusdafax (talk) 07:43, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support. Good idea. A event which will have significant long-term implications for data privacy, even to users outside the EU. The article isn't brilliant but it's good enough to post. Modest Genius ^talk 10:16, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - Per TRM. Referencing issues. Sherenk1 (talk) 11:45, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

oppose evenif worldwide, it is just domestic citizens of 27-28 states (same reasoning domestic US decisions were [rightfully] not posted).Lihaas (talk) 12:18, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

May 24

Portal:Current events/2018 May 24

May 24, 2018 (2018-05-24) (Thursday) Armed conflicts and attacks Mississauga restaurant bombing Fifteen people are injured after two suspects detonate an improvised explosive device at a restaurant in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada. The suspects immediately fled the scene. (Reuters), (BBC) Disasters and accidents Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 A Dutch official from the international Joint Investigation Team tells reporters the Russian Armed Forces were responsible for the shootdown. The Russian Defence Ministry denies its units were involved. (BBC) Monsoon rains kill 12 people in Sri Lanka. (Al Jazeera) International relations North Korea–United States relations 2018 North Korea–United States summit North Korea sets off a series of explosions to demolish the Punggye-ri Nuclear Test Site to build confidence before the scheduled summit between Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un. (NBC News) U.S. President Donald Trump cancels the scheduled summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, citing "tremendous anger and open hostility" in a recent statement by North Korea. Trump states that a summit can still happen, but warns that the military is ready if needed. (CNN) (The Washington Examiner) Burkina Faso–Taiwan relations Burkina Faso breaks diplomatic relations with Taiwan. (The Washington Post), (Reuters) Law and crime Corruption in Spain Gürtel case The National Audience of Spain issues a ruling in the Gürtel case, ending a 10-year trial that sentences 29 people to prison terms of up to 51 years. (El País) (BBC) The People's Party, the ruling party in the Government, is condemned as participant in a lucrative way directly. (El Mundo) (The Washington Post) The Court does not believe the statements as a witness that Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy made on 26 July 2017, which could imply the fulfillment of a crime of false testimony. (El País) Around 30 people are arrested in an operation against corruption in the Provincial Deputation of Barcelona. (El Periódico) Eduardo Zaplana, former Minister of Labour and ex-President of the Generalitat Valenciana is sent to prison without bail after being arrested on May 22. (El País) A gunman opens fire in a restaurant in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, United States. Two people are injured and the gunman is killed at the scene after exchanging fire with an armed bystander. (CNN) Politics and elections Human rights in Pakistan The National Assembly of Pakistan votes a constitutional amendment merging the Federally Administered Tribal Areas with Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province. This will abolish colonial-era rules and provide the five million people from the tribal areas with equal rights as the other people of Pakistan. The measure is expected to pass the next stages without fuss. (Al Jazeera) Presidency of Donald Trump U.S. President Donald Trump posthumously pardons boxer Jack Johnson who was convicted for "taking his white girlfriend across state lines for 'immoral' purposes" in 1912. (CNN) President Trump awards the Medal of Honor to Navy Seal Britt K. Slabinski for his actions during the Battle of Takur Ghar. (Tampa Bay Times) Aftermath of Venezuelan presidential election, 2018 The president of Venezuela, Nicolás Maduro, during a ceremony to celebrate his re-election, ordered the military high command that the Armed Forces sign a "loyalty" document, after claims to have frustrated a supposed conspiration that sought to avoid holding the presidential elections of May 20 and blamed the United States and Colombia for being behind it. Maduro also said that the leader of the alleged conspiration "was a fugitive and that he had escaped to Colombia". (El Universal) The Human Rights NGO, Foro Penal, reported the arrest of an aviation major, which is added to the imprisonment on May 22 by order of the military justice of eleven officers of the Armed Forces. Other versions, of press and activists, affirm that there would be at least 15 detentions by this presumed plot. (Canal N) Science and technology 2018 Atlantic hurricane season The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration of the United States predicts a near- or above-average hurricane season for 2018. (NOAA)

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Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa merger

Article: Thirty-first Amendment to the Constitution of Pakistan (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ On May 24th, 2018 in 229-11 vote National Assembly of Pakistan passes the historic bill to announce the merger of Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) with province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. (Post)
News source(s): The Express Tribune, Geo TV, Daily Times, The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by Nauriya (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: I think the article is well written and it is a major part of a country's constitutional change as well as significant on both government and provisional level. Nauriya (talk) 13:43, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

UEFA Women's Champions League

Article: 2018 UEFA Women's Champions League Final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In association football, Lyon defeat Wolfsburg to win the UEFA Women's Champions League. (Post)
News source(s): BBC

Nominator's comments: Not sure if this is notable enough. Probably the most notable game of the season in women's football though. Perhaps it could be combined with the inevitable blurb for the men's final. Needs some work though i assume. 37.138.235.204 (talk) 06:07, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose (tweaked the blurb per house style) article has no prose summary of the match. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:13, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

I was wondering what the norm was. But to be honest, i was too lazy to go through the archives to find an example. So, thanks for fixing it. 37.138.235.204 (talk) 06:17, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. Much as I would like to support a women's football item, few fans of the sport are even aware that there is a female version of the champions league, let alone who won it. Right now this just doesn't attract enough interest to merit yet another football story on top of those listed on WP:ITNR. Maybe if the standard improves and the competition gets more media attention, but that's at least a few years away. Football is a long way behind many other sports on gender balance. I suspect the 2019 FIFA Women's World Cup will be the next postable event in women's football. Modest Genius ^talk 10:22, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per Modest Genius. At present, the event does not meet the high notability threshold of an ITN item, unfortunately. Stormy clouds (talk) 11:09, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

RD: John "TotalBiscuit" Bain

Article: TotalBiscuit (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Kotaku
Credits:

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: I know there's an orange tag, I need to wait a bit to let editing on the death news die out to replace primary with better sources. Masem (t) 23:31, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Possibly the second most cynical brit I know ... may he rest in peace. Re: primary sources -- I dunno if you'll be able to clean that up, he basically podcasted his own illness. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:40, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Actually, I've been able to hit all but 2 (outside one longer Reddit post he made but referred to in other sources). There's a handleful more but his illness/struggle with cancer was well reported on, just not the nitty gritty. --Masem (t) 01:02, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Support nice work Masem. Subject passes WP:N and a handful of primary sources about non-controversial items like his illness are ok by me, and WP:PRIMARY would seem to allow this. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:18, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak oppose nearly there, fix final [cn]. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:24, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Fixed up. --Masem (t) 05:32, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support. No tags on article. I fixed a CS1 error so there are no more problem hidden categories. wumbolo ^^^ 07:44, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support. Well-referenced article. Capitalistroadster (talk) 10:40, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support. Came here to post this. Looks fine to me. shoy (reactions) 13:01, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

(Closed) Jack Johnson pardon

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Jack Johnson (boxer) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Jack Johnson, the first African American world heavyweight boxing champion, is pardoned for his 1913 conviction for violating the Mann Act. (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

• Nominated by Bender235 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Clearly encyclopedic. bender235 (talk) 18:18, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Other than a quick sentence or two about the action, I'm not finding extensive coverage of this story in news outlets. Even major sports outlets aren't treating it as a "front page" story; it's mostly buried in boxing sections. --Jayron32 18:21, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

It sure isn't the dominating story of the day, but I didn't see the Venezuelan presidential election, or the Palme d'Or film festival filling newspaper front pages either, and yet we have them in our current ITN. --bender235 (talk) 20:17, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose This news is small potatoes. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:09, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posthumous pardons face an uphill battle at ITN. We did post Alan Turing's in December 2013, but Johnson is no Turing, and a year-and-a-day prison term isn't comparable to chemical castration. Oppose. —Cryptic 20:33, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose, political act by politician. Abductive (reasoning) 21:58, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment: More symbolic; not sure if this would be eligible for DYK but this would be more suited there. Spencer^T•C 22:08, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per Cryptic. Daniel Case (talk) 23:34, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Cancellation of North Korea–United States summit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2018 North Korea–United States summit (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ United States President Donald Trump cancels a landmark summit with North Korea Chairman Kim Jong-un, citing hostility from North Korea. (Post)
News source(s): CNBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: The article is not fully updated with the news yet. And while cancellation of an event may normally not be ITNR, this summit was a groundbreaking one (the first time a US leader was to meet with an NK leader), and this was after all the work SK did to help bring NK around. Masem (t) 14:16, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support in Principle on notability, the article itself is in decent shape, but the update isn’t in the best condition at the moment, largely because it is breaking news. Still this does seem worthy for ITN. Hornetzilla78 (talk) 14:24, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Strong oppose - We didn't post the announcement of the summit back in March 2018, precisely because we knew something like this was going to happen. No one should be surprised by this. It makes no sense to not post the announcement of the summit but to post the announcement of the cancellation of the summit.--WaltCip (talk) 14:26, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
  • If the summit happened, I am pretty confident we would have posted on its occurrence (as we did with the SK-NK one). With a political event like this, posting at the announcement doesn't make sense because we know that the event would be covered when it happens (or in this case, isn't going to happen). --Masem (t) 14:37, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Of course we would have posted at its occurrence, because it would have been a momentous occasion, because - this is key here - Trump and North Korea respectively have a terrible track record on keeping dates and promises. How many times has Jong-un promised a truce, diplomacy, or de-nuclearization, only to backpedal from it later? The cancellation of the summit, as far as I'm concerned, is status quo for US-NK relations. There's an entire article devoted to promises made and not kept.--WaltCip (talk) 14:48, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak Support it's certainly in the news. Does this mean Trump won't get his peace prize? Also how triggered up do editors have to be for an article to require "change approval"? Wow. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:27, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• The one he had no reasonable hope of getting anyways? If I were a gambling man, I wouldn't stake my money on it. Not that the peace prize really means much of anything in the first place. Kurtis ^(talk) 00:57, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose no, we shouldn't post this, because it's not something that's actually happened, because we didn't post the announcement of it and frankly, knowing Trump, because it's just as likely that he'll change his mind again anyway. Black Kite (talk) 14:45, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Strong oppose we just don't post things that don't happen. Inevitable Trumpism. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:00, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose – More grandstanding. If they ever do meet, and agree on something – anything – that would be worth posting. (I expect this cancellation will fade fast from the news.) Sca (talk) 15:29, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose is notable, but in a way this was more or less predictable considering hostilities between the two nations. Kirliator (talk) 15:33, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Events that didn't actually happen are not suitable for ITN. EternalNomad (talk) 16:08, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
  • That's objectively false, but whatever. We posted Scotland voting to remain in the UK for example. I expected this nom to go down in flames, and won't defend it, but let's not use blanket objections like "Events that didn't actually happen are not suitable for ITN". BUT MUH PEACE PRIZE!!! --LaserLegs (talk) 16:17, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Barack Obama pre-emptively got a Peace Prize for peace that he ended up not delivering on. The Nobel committee won't make that mistake again.--WaltCip (talk) 16:19, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
      • For ending the disasterous and illegal Iraq war? Nah, he delivered on that. The commemorative coins! What are we gonna do with all these medallions?? Use 'em for taxis??? --LaserLegs (talk) 16:29, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. Amusing as this whole episode is, we always knew that it was unlikely to happen and/or lead to any concrete progress. "Historic event doesn't occur" isn't an ITN blurb. Trump can make himself look ridiculous without our help. Modest Genius ^talk 16:33, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - the summit is cancelled. No way. Who could have seen this coming? We should not post non-events, and the Scotland example is not apt as they did actually vote, not just say that they would then not get around to it. Stormy clouds (talk) 16:37, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support This is in the news. That's our purpose, right? Calling this a "non-event" isn't really accurate, as this is the culmination of the attempt at a summit. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:34, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose the initial announcement was not posted, so it seems hypocritical to post this as well. Also Trump notes that the summit can happen in the future, per a report on the CE portal. SamaranEmerald (talk) 18:41, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. Nothing happened. power~enwiki (π, ν) 20:35, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose The destruction of the nuclear test site might be more significant [4], even if it's been much less widely reported. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:07, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose This never happened. It was never likely to happen. It was always nothing more than typical Trump bluster. The news is still that there is a lying, racist, bullying, misogynist, discriminatory, incompetent pussy grabber in the White House. Everything else is just political colour and movement. HiLo48 (talk) 22:47, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Thank goodness. For a moment there I thought we had a "died-in-the-wool" NRA supporter. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:52, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Bleve that would be dyed-in-the wool. Sca (talk) 00:40, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

In U.S. English, pussy-graber is officially hyphenated. Sca (talk) 00:40, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

• • • I am NOT the topic. HiLo48 (talk) 23:14, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - Something not happening isn't typically newsworthy. If Trump had actually met Kim, that would be different. He did not. Ergo, status quo ante bellum peace talks. Kurtis ^(talk) 00:57, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

MH17 investigation

Article: Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Joint Investigation Team concludes that the Buk missile system used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 originated from the Russian 53rd Anti-Aircraft Rocket Brigade. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Australia and the Netherlands say they are holding Russia responsible for downing a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet in 2014.
News source(s): Openbaar Ministerie, BBC, Reuters
Credits:

• Nominated by Brandmeister (talk · give credit)

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Official confirmation of the unofficial suspicion, even if the criminal investigation is still ongoing. Brandmeister^talk 13:38, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support It is hard to judge if there is going to be any criminal-type proceedings from this, but official closure on the cause of this crash is appropriate, and the article seems updated and well sourced. --Masem (t) 13:41, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Article quality is sufficient, article is sufficiently updated, item is being covered sufficiently by reliable news sources. --Jayron32 14:23, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Suppport – with the proviso that we avoid language implying that the JIT proved that it was shot down by the Russian BUK. (Presumably, only the Russians know with absolute certainty.) In the article, I changed today's new "confirmed that" to "declared that." There are numerous acceptable uses of "confirmed" farther down in the article. Sca (talk) 15:43, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak support as this is merely confirmation of something that was already overwhelmingly likely, but it's certainly in the news and has implications for international relations. Can we make the blurb more concise? I've not checked all the nuances of the report, but would it correct to say "The Joint Investigation Team reports that Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down by Russian forces"? Modest Genius ^talk 16:39, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• No, because the article suggests that the Buk was under the control of rebel Ukranian forces, not Russian ones. Black Kite (talk) 17:28, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Which article suggests that? --bender235 (talk) 20:18, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

OK, what about "The Joint Investigation Team reports that the missile which shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was provided by Russia"? Modest Genius ^talk 11:28, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

• Suppport – this is a major development in this investigation. BabbaQ (talk) 22:30, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Until we have a truly independent investigation, everything that comes from it is just politics. HiLo48 (talk) 22:49, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Russian misinformation has found yet another victim, it seems. (/off-topic) --bender235 (talk) 23:33, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Is that an attack on me, Russia, or both? HiLo48 (talk) 04:48, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

I think the only way you could get a "truly independent" investigation would be for aliens from another planet to investigate it. 331dot (talk) 08:36, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

I agree, and I'm glad you see that. Many here don't. HiLo48 (talk) 08:54, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

I see that, but I also see that this is as close to an official conclusion as we are going to get. An investigation involving Russia seems remote(as they would have been involved with this one if they wanted to be) so that shouldn't prevent this from being posted. Readers can see for themselves the nature of this investigation. 331dot (talk) 09:01, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Only if some of us are consistently vigilant about the language used in the article, making sure it always makes it quite clear where statements come from. I'll be watching. HiLo48 (talk) 09:06, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

We can't mention this again until those aliens arrive? I think ALT Blurb is perfectly satisfactory. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:06, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

• Weak support per Modest Genius. Banedon (talk) 05:41, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment: Dutch and Australian media report today that the Netherlands and Australia officially hold Russia responsible. I currently don't have the opportunity to update the article, but it might add to the relevance. Thayts ••• 09:04, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - As per above comment. Added alt blurb Sherenk1 (talk) 11:52, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - As per above comments and with alt blurb. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:06, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

May 23

Portal:Current events/2018 May 23

May 23, 2018 (2018-05-23) (Wednesday) Business and economy Transport in Iran Iranian truck owners and drivers start striking in seven provinces to protest poor working conditions. (VOA) (The Washington Post) Budget of France The European Commission recommends to remove France from the excessive deficit procedure which it entered in 2009. (Deutsche Welle) Economy of Turkey The Turkish Central Bank raises its "late liquidity window" rate from 13.5% to 16.5% in a move to counter the slide of the Turkish lira over the last three weeks. Other rates are left unchanged. (Bloomberg) Disasters and accidents Transport in the Democratic Republic of the Congo A whaleboat accident kills 49 people in Tshuapa province, DR Congo. (Reuters) (BBC) Health and environment The United States issues a health alert in China, following a government employee reporting "abnormal sensations of sound and pressure", one in a range of physical symptoms, from late 2017 through to April 2018. U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo says the State Department is moving medical teams into place in Guangzhou, adding that the incident was "entirely consistent" with reported "sonic attacks" in Cuba in 2016 and 2017. (CNN) International relations Iran–European Union relations Iran sets seven conditions to stay in the JCPOA Iran deal after the U.S. withdrew. One of these conditions is that European banks should safeguard trade with Iran. (Al-Arabiya) China–United States relations The Pentagon announces that it has "disinvited" China from this year's biennial Rim of the Pacific naval exercise, after China announced in January that it had accepted the United States' invitation. (Politico) Law and crime Corruption in Belgium Belgian prosecutors admit that a 2-year-old child was killed by police during a high-speed chase with a van last week, after initially denying it. (The Guardian) Knight First Amendment Institute v. Trump U.S. District Judge Naomi Reice Buchwald rules that public officials on social media should not block other users for differing political views. (Fortune) Politics and elections Politics of Italy Italian President Sergio Mattarella accepts Giuseppe Conte as Prime Minister. Conte is now going to form his government, supported by the Five Star Movement and League. (BBC) Sports 2018 NFL season, U.S. national anthem protests (2016–present) The NFL announces a new policy regarding kneeling for the anthem, requiring any players on the sidelines to stand. Thus, players will now be allowed to remain in the locker room while the Star-Spangled Banner is played, fining players who refuse to stand on the sidelines. (The Baltimore Sun) 2018 Stanley Cup playoffs The Washington Capitals will play the Vegas Golden Knights in the Stanley Cup Finals after a game 7 victory. It is the first Stanley Cup Finals appearance for the Capitals since 1998. (NHL)

---

Cyclone Mekunu

Article: 2018 North Indian Ocean cyclone season#Extremely Severe Cyclonic Storm Mekunu (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The island chain of Socotra, famed for unique plants and animals found nowhere else on the planet, is coping with the aftermath of a powerful cyclone. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Sherenk1 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Alaha.cyclone (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Known as the Galapagos of the Indian Ocean is a disaster zone, hence the notability. Article just created. Sherenk1 (talk) 13:21, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Not yet in the namespace that I can check to assess its suitability for main page. –Ammarpad (talk) 14:09, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support in principle, but Oppose in quality and oppose blurb considering that this “article” is not in the best condition, despite being on about a hurricane; however the real problem is the suggested blurb, which is too long and does not directly state the name of the hurricane. it should be rewritten to match the layout similar to ones posted about previous hurricanes. Kirliator (talk) 15:42, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose no article yet, just a draft. Rather surprised the Tropical Cyclones Wikiproject hasn't gotten on this one yet; maybe someone could enlist them. They're usually on it. --Jayron32 16:07, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per Jayron, surprised that, if this is significant, the wikiproject hasn't got a B-class article already up and running. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:20, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Luis Posada Carriles

Article: Luis Posada Carriles (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Miami Herald
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Vanamonde93 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article could use a little cleanup. I'll try to get to it in a few hours, but nominating in the hope that other folks work on it. Vanamonde (talk) 14:21, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

• Weak Oppose The refs around Cubana Flight 455 aren't great, and that article is a mess so no WP:BLUELINK. The 2005-whenever had a paragraph that was unsubstantiated. Anyway, tagged my best, overall not a terrible article would be nice to feature. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:47, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• @LaserLegs: I believe your tags have been addressed. Vanamonde (talk) 10:43, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Weak Support I still don't like the way the UN docs are used as primary sources because of negative qualifiers like "she claimed" which are in the article but not the source. It's a minor NPOV thing though not enough to keep from posting. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:33, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Also nice work Rms125a@hotmail.com and Vanamonde93 cleaning it up. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:38, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment I've done a good bit of work on this since nominating it; further fleshing out and detail would be useful, but it certainly has more substance than the average RD posting. Vanamonde (talk) 10:43, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Article looks to be in good shape, as far as I can see. --Jayron32 11:37, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support looks okay to me. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:45, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support. I've spot checked a few references and found no issues. This looks good to go - marking ready. Thryduulf (talk) 12:12, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 17:55, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Dieter Schnebel

Article: Dieter Schnebel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NZZ
Credits:

• Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Jerome Kohl (talk · give credit) and Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died 20 May. German composer, musicologist and theologian who was an influential academic teacher and thinker. - I promised myself not to ever come here again, after Wanda Wiłkomirska, but it's about him, not me and my feelings. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:33, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment the article looks to be pretty comprehensive but the lack of inline citations means I'm unable to quickly check whether there are any unreferenced statements and whether the references do verify what they claim to. Thryduulf (talk) 12:36, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose right now, as it should be subject to a {{inline}} template. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:39, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Do you mean the different referencing style, to have the link to the ref in brackets, giving name and year? That's Jerome's style. It could be changed if you insist. (It was different before.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:25, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

I dont think that we disallow this style of referencing, see Wikipedia:Parenthetical referencing. --Masem (t) 13:31, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

The Rambling Man, what do you think, also considering the below. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:31, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment See Wikipedia:Citing_sources#Parenthetical_referencing and Parenthetical referencing for Wikipedia policy and the usual parameters for Harvard inline citations. The article on Schnebel still has a few claims marked as needing citations but, on the whole, is rather heavily laden with inline citations. All you need do is follow the blue links from the author-date citations to the reflist.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:27, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support. — Hugh (talk) 01:11, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support. I think that when I first looked that I just wasn't parseing the parentheticals as references. Thryduulf (talk) 12:10, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - seems ready for posting.BabbaQ (talk) 22:30, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - is this being reported in English language sources? 1779Days (talk) 00:06, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 00:54, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Trial of Nikola Gruevski

Article: Nikola Gruevski (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Prime Minister of Macedonia Nikola Gruevski is sentenced to two years in prison for unlawfully influencing officials in a purchase of a luxury bulletproof car. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, The Washington Post, ABC News
Credits:

• Nominated by Kiril Simeonovski (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: I remember that we usually do post trials of former prime ministers or heads of state that end up with an imprisonment verdict. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:12, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment/question With criminal trials (of anybody) conviction is normally the point at which we post. Did we do that in this case? If so is there anything particularly noteworthy about the sentence that merits a second posting? Thryduulf (talk) 12:38, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

• No, we didn't post the conviction at the time it was made. In fact, he was convicted for multiple criminal charges in a relatively short time, and this is the first one that has come to a conclusion. I can't tell much about the severity of the rest nor foresee what might happen as a result, but an imprisonment verdict in the resolution of the first one seems noteworthy.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:04, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment missing refs in the wiretapping section are a no-go. Also the trial needs to be fully fleshed out. "the Prime Minister of Macedonia is the country's leading political figure and de facto chief executive" in case anyone was wondering (I was). --LaserLegs (talk) 13:48, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• We do post convictions, especially when resulting in a prison sentence. However, the update is a bit short in the article. --Tone 06:23, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support involves a former head of government which is certainly news-making. Banedon (talk) 05:09, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose, obviously. The target is a BLP which is inadequately referenced. Regardless of the newsworthiness (or otherwise) of this, we can't just promote such stuff to the main page. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:18, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

RD: Philip Roth

Article: Philip Roth (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Sherenk1 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American author. Referencing issues in awards and novels section. Sherenk1 (talk) 04:26, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support – Okay article, C-class, the {{cn}} tags aren't really that major.  Nixinova  T  C  06:23, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• I will hold off supporting this until the list of works is cleared up with references. The awards section seemed to be reasonably well referenced. Capitalistroadster (talk) 07:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose three sections are orange tagged as needing more references (one of which I added) and there are few other uncited claims in other sections. Thryduulf (talk) 12:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose It's not the {{cn}} tags that are the problem, it's the (rightly) orange tagged sections. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:51, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

May 22

Portal:Current events/2018 May 22

May 22, 2018 (2018-05-22) (Tuesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Syrian Civil War Southern Damascus offensive (April–May 2018) Syrian government forces declare Damascus and its surroundings "completely safe" for the first time since 2011, after taking Yarmouk Camp and Hajar al-Aswad from ISIL. (CBS News) Kha Maung Seik massacre Amnesty International releases a report claiming it has evidence that ARSA insurgents massacred nearly 100 Hindus in the village of Kha Maung Seik on August 25, 2017, the same day ARSA attacked security forces in Myanmar's Rakhine State. (BBC News) Israel announces it is the first country to use the new F-35 Lightning II fighter jet in combat operations. (BBC News) (Business Insider) Disasters and accidents At least 16 people are killed and 38 wounded in Kandahar, Afghanistan, by the accidental detonation of a container of explosives while security forces were attempting to dispose of it. (Al Jazeera) International relations 2018 North Korea–United States summit, North Korea–United States relations U.S. President Donald Trump states there is a "very substantial chance" that the summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un next month may not occur. (BBC News) China–United States relations, Economy of China The Chinese Finance Ministry announces it will cut import duties on passenger vehicles from 25% to 15% starting on July 1, just days after China and the U.S. agreed to a ceasefire in their recent trade hostilities. (CNN) Zimbabwe applies to rejoin the Commonwealth of Nations. Zimbabwe left the Commonwealth in 2003 following a disputed election the previous year and subsequent suspension from the organization. According to Commonwealth Secretary-General Patricia Scotland, the application was made on May 15. (Al Jazeera) Law and crime Environmental issues in India Police in Thoothukudi, Tamil Nadu, India, kill nine people who protested against Vedanta Resources' copper smelter operation, alleging that it is a major source of pollution and a risk to fisheries. State Minister D. Jayakumar says that it was "unavoidable" that the people were shot. National Congress opposition leader Rahul Gandhi calls the killings "state sponsored terrorism". (Reuters) (Indian Express) Sports 2018 Indian Premier League Chennai Super Kings defeat Sunrisers Hyderabad by 2 wickets in Qualifier-1 and progress to the final of the Indian Premier League. (Cricinfo) (Times of India)

---

RD: Antonio Lupatelli

Article: Antonio Lupatelli (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Newsweek
Credits:

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: aka Tony Wolf, noted Italian writer of children's books (eg Pingu). Unfortunately, the bulk of media reporting this is in Italian, and our article is woefully poor to support it presently. Masem (t) 13:35, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose pitiful stub. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:18, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Man Booker International Prize

Articles: Man Booker International Prize (talk · history · tag) and Flights (novel) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Man Booker International Prize is awarded to "Flights" by Olga Tokarczuk. (Post)
News source(s): Official Website The Guardian BBC News
Credits:

• Nominated by Lucie Person (talk · give credit)

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Reformating nomination from Lucie Person for parsability. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:44, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support as the Booker article has stayed in good shape over several years. I'd like to see if Flights could be improved to be featured in the blurb (bolded), there's a few reviews I see, I added one as a refidea to the page, but I'm sure there's more. --Masem (t) 01:42, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose as nominated per ITNR, "Unless otherwise noted, the winner of the prize is normally the target article." I can support this if the target is Flights (novel). Banedon (talk) 01:55, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Yep, the bold link needs to be to Flights (novel), which is currently a 5-sentence stub. Needs some expansion before it's postable. Modest Genius ^talk 09:48, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose on article quality only. It needs a lot of work before it can make the main page. AIRcorn (talk) 21:13, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support. The Flights (novel) article has been improved; it's not great but meets our minimum standards. Ready? Modest Genius ^talk 11:33, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Philip Wilson guilty

Article: Philip Wilson (bishop) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An Australian court finds Catholic Archbishop Philip Wilson guilty of concealing child sexual abuse in the 1970s. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Catholic Archbishop of Adelaide Philip Wilson is found guilty of concealing historical child sexual abuse in the Diocese of Maitland-Newcastle, Australia.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Sherenk1 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: The most senior Catholic in the world to be charged and convicted of the offense. Article has some referencing issues. Sherenk1 (talk) 05:20, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support Major news on the Catholic Church paedophilia front, which is a big issue globally and in Australia. I have found references for the two claims which had been tagged with "citation needed". HiLo48 (talk) 05:55, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak support I have to read the news articles to understand the scope of why we should post this, as the article on Wilson is not really clear on why this decision was so important (as I read elsewhere, the diocese he was in was considered the epicenter of the Catholic pedophile situation in Australia, and securing a conviction that it was covered up seemed to be a key result for further investigation based on the Guardian's article. Thus, the charge has merit as ITN, but the article should explain this better. --Masem (t) 06:10, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support it's pretty clear from just the blurb what the significance of this is, let's hope it's just the start of rooting out the evil. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:39, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose "failing to report allegations of abuse". That's not significant. Let me know when the actual predators are convicted. Also a few missing refs. --LaserLegs (talk) 09:50, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Not significant? Tell that to the victims. The fact that priests knew they would not be reported made them feel freer to continue their predations. It was the complete system that allowed these crimes to occur. HiLo48 (talk) 10:09, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Right great wrongs and all that HiLo. Story is way down in the headlines. --LaserLegs (talk) 11:31, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Many American events, particularly sporting ones, that make it to ITN, are NEVER in the news outside that country. HiLo48 (talk) 22:24, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Comment The "predator" in this case, Father Jim Fletcher, was convicted of child sexual offences in 2004 and died in prison in 2006. Archbishop Wilson is now convicted of covering up Fletcher's crimes. --dmmaus (talk) 10:56, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support - I realize that I may be going into this with an emotionally charged viewpoint, but damnit, WP:IAR.--WaltCip (talk) 10:38, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Added altblurb. I'm leaning towards LaserLegs in rationale, seeing that this occurred prior to when Wilson became archbishop and because the actual perpetrator was convicted in 2004. I'd prefer to see an official government inquiry report into the systematic failings of a national religious entity on this matter, rather than a piecemeal DYKable blurb about what one official did [not do] when he first started out. Fuebaey (talk) 11:11, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Please explain what the fact that the perpetrator has been been convicted has to do with this? HiLo48 (talk) 11:19, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Because without A, there would be no B. I'm making the assumption that the significance of this event lies where Wilson is a high ranking official within an influential organisation. Rather than a random neighbour knowing that the guy next door is abusing other people. The former may reach the bar for posting on ITN but not the latter from my POV. Fuebaey (talk) 11:59, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose for the reasons stated by Masem. Literally thousands of clergy were complicit in these acts. If we can't tell readers in the blurb why this one is special (and we cannot), we need to do so ASAP in the article. ghost 11:31, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Now seeing in RS that "Wilson...faces a maximum two-year jail term." So quality aside, this is really unimportant. ghost 13:16, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

I was on the same side as you when I first read the BBC article, and saw the short term. It's reading a few others that have more indepth to understand why authorities were seeing this as a key step in the ongoing investigation of the situation; his conviction means they can access more records, etc. --Masem (t) 14:00, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support - high-ranking official of one of the world's largest organisation is convicted. Big news in the denouement of the Catholic sex abuse scandal, and worthy of posting. Article is fine, but could do with an expansion per Masem. Stormy clouds (talk) 11:35, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose – Not convinced a "failing to report" situation rises to ITN-grade significance. Sca (talk) 12:51, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per Sca. Failure to report a crime is not ITN-level stuff. Lepricavark (talk) 15:54, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Doesn't rise to the level of significance for ITN. Perhaps manageable at DYK. –Ammarpad (talk) 17:18, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment I think those claiming this "crime" being not significant enough are missing the point. After all, those individuals would need to vote against Al Capone's conviction on tax evasion. It's the bigger picture which Masem and Stormy Clouds note here, that's significant. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:32, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
  • No we get it perfectly. It is, I think, roughly equivalent to Michael Flynn pleading guilty to lying to the FBI. Insignificant on it's own, but the bigger (yuge) picture .... So I guess you could say in this case that it's local crime, nothing here for a global encyclopedia. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:14, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
    • No, you don't. But I'm not surprised at all. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:16, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
      • "But I'm not surprised at all." are you commenting on my competence, or on me personally there TRM? --LaserLegs (talk) 19:11, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
        • Neither, I'm commenting on my lack of surprise. You can re-read it if you like. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:49, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose mostly per Sca. The church sex abuse scandals are a big deal. But in the grand scheme of things this is a minor blip. Much bigger news will be coming if Cardinal George Pell is convicted. And then there is the recent news that everyone of Chile's 23 Catholic bishops handed in their resignations to the Pope in response to his demands and the ongoing sex abuse scandals in that country. I tried, and failed, to interest anyone over at WP:Catholicism in this story as a possible ITN candidate. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:44, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

  I think "An Australian court has found a Catholic archbishop guilty of concealing child sexual abuse in the 1970s. Philip Wilson, now archbishop of Adelaide, becomes the most senior Catholic in the world to be charged and convicted of the offence." is sufficient for ITN. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:10, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

This whole topic is a big issue indeed, but again I don't see the Most Rev. Wilson's failure to report "allegations" (per our article) 40 years ago in Australia as top-drawer news. (Perhaps if I were RC I'd have a different opinion?) Sca (talk) 20:38, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

PS: As of 20:45 Tues., the Wilson story had faded from prime play on major EngLang news sites. Sca (talk) 20:49, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose -- this is no more significant than a hardcore torture proponent being placed in charge of an international intelligence agency with paramilitary options. 165.225.0.96 (talk) 21:24, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Changed to oppose as this event is no longer in the news.--WaltCip (talk) 23:08, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

It is in Australia. And if you think that doesn't matter, many sporting events we post hardly ever make it outside their home country. HiLo48 (talk) 04:25, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

I browsed through the websites of the Sydney Morning Herald, the Canberra Times, the Brisbane Times, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation and found nothing. I have to go to the BBC website and go to the Australia page to find that the story is being covered. So while it might have been picked up by the BBC, it doesn't actually seem to be news in Australia.--WaltCip (talk) 10:47, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Yes it is. HiLo48 (talk) 23:13, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

@HiLo48: that is a really unhelpful comment. WaltCip gave a detailed explanation of why they believe it not to be in the news. If you disagree with that, the very least you should do is provide some evidence to the contrary - it should be easy if this is as significant as you claim. Thryduulf (talk) 23:38, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

I really can't be bothered. The reasons are quite clear. Items don't have to stay in the version of the news foreigners see for weeks on end to be posted here. Many NEVER make it to the news I see. (e.g. US college sport.) You need to come to Australia to see the reality. I am beginning to doubt the knowledge or motives of some of those opposing this. HiLo48 (talk) 23:48, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

I think I see why you had an enforced hiatus from ITN in the past now.--WaltCip (talk) 01:44, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

@HiLo48: Pleas (re)read WP:OTHERSTUFF, WP:ITN#PURPOSE and WP:ASPERSIONS. While I would like to visit Australia, practical considerations mean that even with unlimited funds (something I do not have access to, alas) it would not be possible to make it before this nomination is stale (it's a fair guess that this applies to most other commenters too) you will have to provide us with evidence (see WP:V) that this is still in the news in Australia. We don't necessarily need items to be international headline news for weeks, but we do need to see evidence of significant coverage somewhere. US college sports are certainly disproportionately nominated here, but not very many actually get posted - and while the ones that do may not make international headlines (they don't tend to here in the UK for instance) they do get significant coverage in the US, and evidence is presented to back up the assertions. Thryduulf (talk) 08:23, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support per Masem. Seems like an important chapter in the Catholic sex abuse scandal.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:55, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. This doesn't seem to be significant on it's own merits, and while the Catholic sex abuse scandal is a huge topic this conviction doesn't seem to be a major milestone in that. I get the distinct impression that most people involved with the prosecution see it as more of a proof of concept that worked as expected stepping stone on the way to bigger more important things. Thryduulf (talk) 12:49, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

  Heh, ironically I think your latter statement is right which is why it is important. But hey. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:27, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

  • Yes Thryduulf. Rambling Man is right. This IS a major stepping stone. Australia has been going through major agonies over child abuse in the Catholic Church. This is a huge breakthrough. It may be worth noting that someone else ahead in the list of charged Australian Catholics is George Pell, a major figure in world Catholicism. This getting ever nearer the top. It's not just a minor case in unimportant, little Australia. It matters. The world needs to be told. HiLo48 (talk) 21:42, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

    • My point is that even the people involved with the prosecution don't see this as a major step worth massively shouting about. Your comments about "Australia has been going through major agonies", "someone else ahead in the list of charged" and "This getting ever nearer the top" tell exactly that story - this is just one small step in the middle of a much larger story. Just as we don't post every step of a presidential impeachment or every conviction of a drug cartel member, we don't need to (and shouldn't) post every step of this story. Thryduulf (talk) 22:14, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
      • That is simply false. As I read it, in multiple places, the people involved with the prosecution see this precisely as a major step worth shouting about. That's why it was nominated. We Australians aren't just ignorant, dumb ass colonials, thank you very much, and what happens here CAN matter for the whole world. I am finding the tone of some comments here very insulting to a country not normally seen as a major player in world affairs. HiLo48 (talk) 01:25, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
        • And I find "the world needs to be told" to run contrary to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, but hey, that's just one Kiwi's opinion.--WaltCip (talk) 11:03, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
          • @WaltCip and HiLo48: Indeed. It is not ITN's job to tell the world anything. It is to point readers at encyclopaedia articles about significant topics that are already in the news. Per others this isn't really significantly in the news. Thryduulf (talk) 12:34, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
            • Yes it is. HiLo48 (talk) 22:43, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
              • @HiLo48: Yes it is what? If you think it is ITN's job to tell the world things, then you need to re-read WP:ITN#Purpose. If you mean that yes, it is ITN's job to point readers at encyclopaedia articles... then we agree and your response makes little sense. If you mean that yes, it is significantly in the news then you need to please provide some evidence of that - just gainsaying anything the other person says is not helpful. Thryduulf (talk) 23:38, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
                • What do you mean by "Yes it is what?"? I think the logic of the conversation flow is quite clear. You provided no evidence for your claim. Why do I need to.? HiLo48 (talk) 23:43, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
                  • I made three statements and you could have been referring to any of them. The first and second are backed by WP:ITN#Purpose (the first also by WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS) - both previously noted. The third statement points to the evidence provided by others elsewhere in this discussion even though it's very difficult to prove a negative. If you want to convince others to support your position then you need to present cogent arguments back by evidence. Thryduulf (talk) 08:23, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Unproductive argument re 'racism.' Sca (talk) 12:40, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I really don't understand why you seem to believe it being in Australia/about Australians has any bearing on my opinion of the story whatsoever? I'm assuming good faith that you are not accusing me of racism, but I assure you that my !vote would be the same whatever country this related to. Thryduulf (talk) 11:22, 24 May 2018 (UTC) Racism? Huh? What race do you think Australians are? This is getting silly. HiLo48 (talk) 11:28, 24 May 2018 (UTC) We Australians aren't just ignorant, dumb ass colonials, It's not just a minor case in unimportant, little Australia you seem to be asserting that my views on Australia and/or Australians are coloruing my view of the significance of the story. Thryduulf (talk) 12:05, 24 May 2018 (UTC) I'm sorry, but I find it very difficult to discuss this with someone who leaps to some conclusion about race when I say "Australian". There is no rational connection. HiLo48 (talk) 12:14, 24 May 2018 (UTC) There are different definitions of racism and racial discrimination. For example, the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination defines "the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life." (my emphasis). ---Sluzzelin talk 12:20, 24 May 2018 (UTC) By trying to cover so much, that definition destroys the idea of what racism really is. It is simply not discrimination against a nationality, especially such a multicultural one as Australian. HiLo48 (talk) 12:25, 24 May 2018 (UTC) Whether you agree with that being called "racism" or not, the effect is the same. Thryduulf (talk) 12:30, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support per Stormy clouds. Davey2116 (talk) 03:43, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support per Stormy clouds, TRM and HiLo48. Jusdafax (talk) 02:03, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose as both inconsequential and no longer making headlines. 165.225.0.68 (talk) 13:02, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

(Closed) Anti male-guardianship campaign

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: anti male-guardianship campaign (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Saudi authorities crack down on anti male-guardianship campaign. (Post)
News source(s): The Independent, Thomson Reuters, The Atlantic
Credits:

• Nominated by Boud (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Crackdown on adult women (and male supporters) campaigning for women to not be legal minors in the country with one of the worst women's rights records in the world. Boud (talk) 21:21, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose "crack down" means what? It looks like a minor scuffle, and not of broad interest. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:26, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
  • "Crackdown" is the term chosen by Reuters, and the crackdown is expanding. The #metoo women's rights campaign is an ongoing newsworthy event across US/Europe since a year or so ago. In Saudi Arabia being a rape victim can often lead to being imprisoned. These are some of the broad context for why these arrests, of (mostly) women organising to defend themselves, are attracting a lot of Western mainstream media attention. Boud (talk) 21:43, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
    • I'm just saying it's not encyclopedic nor is it going to be posted ever in this form. Don't "crack down" on the messenger. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:45, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose This appears to have been an ongoing thing since 2011, and this was just one recent event among that. Not really a significant event in the larger scheme. --Masem (t) 21:50, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose At least the way the blurb is written. "Crack down" is too vague, and in this case denotes a handful of arrests which IMO doesn't rise to ITN-level significance. EternalNomad (talk) 00:38, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - Crackdowns in Saudi Arabia are like twisters in Kansas or bombings in Yemen - it will take something exceptional to qualify. If the Saudis arrest tens of thousands within the span of a few days,then we can talk about posting a blurb about a crackdown. Kurtis ^(talk) 01:34, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 21

Portal:Current events/2018 May 21

May 21, 2018 (2018-05-21) (Monday) Business and economy Economy of Japan Sony agrees to a $2.3 billion deal where they will buy a controlling interest in EMI Music Publishing. The deal will mean that Sony would indirectly own 90% of the music publisher and its two million songs. (BBC) International relations Israel–Paraguay relations, Status of Jerusalem Paraguay opens its embassy in Jerusalem, making Paraguay the third country, after the United States and Guatemala, to transfer its diplomatic mission in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. (AP via Politico) Iran–United States relations U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo says the U.S. will impose "the strongest sanctions in history" on Iran if it does not meet various demands, including ending its nuclear program and leaving the Syrian Civil War. (Reuters) Iranian President Hassan Rouhani rejects Pompeo's demands, and Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammed Javad Zarif accuses the U.S. of "repeating past mistakes." (Al Jazeera) Syrian Civil War The Syrian government declares Damascus as "completely safe" from militant groups for the first time in seven years as it forces out ISIS from the area. (Haaretz) Law and crime Catholic sexual abuse cases in Australia Philip Wilson, the Catholic archbishop of Adelaide, Australia, is convicted of concealing sexual abuse of children from authorities. (BBC) Epic Systems Corp. v. Lewis The U.S. Supreme Court votes 5–4 to allow companies to enforce contracts which bar employees from entering class action lawsuits. (The Washington Post via Concord Monitor)

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(Posted) RD: Dovey Johnson Roundtree

Article: Dovey Johnson Roundtree (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

• Nominated by GreatCaesarsGhost (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American civil rights activist. ghost 11:17, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment The paragraph about Michelle Obama in the lede is undue. I think it should be moved to the body of the text.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:31, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

 Done; Support. — Hugh (talk) 01:13, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support. Article is well fleshed out; can't check some of the book sources, but the citations are filled out. Marking (ready). Spencer^T•C 04:37, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 04:53, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Robert Indiana

Article: Robert Indiana (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

• Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:30, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:40, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Nicely referenced, no issues I can see. yorkshiresky (talk) 09:52, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted. 331dot (talk) 09:54, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

(Closed) Nipah virus

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Henipavirus#Outbreaks (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Health officials in the south Indian state of Kerala say nine people have died in confirmed and suspected cases of the deadly Nipah virus. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Sherenk1 (talk · give credit)

 Sherenk1 (talk) 08:18, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose that it is a simple one-liner in a wider articles is telling for me, once it becomes significant enough for coverage in its own article, I would reconsider. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:21, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose How is this "in the news"? –Ammarpad (talk) 11:09, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose with the reader call being to Nipah virus, there should be an actual article on the topic first. — xaosflux ^Talk 13:38, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment. Open to this in principle, but without an article it's hard to assess. I don't know why there isn't even a separate article on the virus. Espresso Addict (talk) 14:12, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per lack of article. Lepricavark (talk) 15:24, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2018 Billboard Music Awards

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2018 Billboard Music Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Billboard Music Awards is hosted in Las Vegas (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Ed Sheeran wins top artist at the Billboard Music Awards
News source(s): [5]
Credits:

• Nominated by Lucie Person (talk · give credit)

• Comment: Looks like it's not part of WP:ITNR#Music? Any special reason that this should be posted? HaEr48 (talk) 05:10, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
  • It's likely not part of ITNR as the Billboard awards are strictly given based on sales/popularity, rather than any critical voting or vetting process. Further, we already have the Grammies as ITNR to cover predominately American music; we don't need a second sub-tier award ITNR. --Masem (t) 05:48, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Except we can't seem to get the Grammies posted, as the relevant article is always in shitty condition.--WaltCip (talk) 11:03, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
      • "Not our problem". We shouldn't post lesser awards that might have better articles just because the more major award page wasn't updated in time at its turn. And FWIW, this current specific article is not of quality to post - there's almost no prose, and just listing out who performed is not the same as covering the ceremony. --Masem (t) 13:09, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose four brief lines of prose in total? Not good enough. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:33, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose I agree with TRM here, the article lacks any real substance, and there is nothing calling out why the "top artist" category is so special (as opposed to say "top song" or "top album". — xaosflux ^Talk 13:36, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Unlike other award shows, the Billboard awards are based on sales, so the winners are by and large already known beforehand. It's more of a promotional device for the magazine/charts than an actual awards show. Teemu08 (talk) 13:40, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Cogent reasons already given above. –Ammarpad (talk) 14:54, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose on notability. Not significant enough for ITN. Lepricavark (talk) 14:58, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Even if this was a significant event (which I don't think it is) the article is just a bunch of tables.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:17, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 20

Portal:Current events/2018 May 20

May 20, 2018 (2018-05-20) (Sunday) Disasters and accidents 2018 lower Puna eruption Lava continues spewing from fissures on Kilauea, Hawaii, reaching the Pacific Ocean and critically injuring one person. (CNN) (1 News Now) Cyclone Sagar Cyclone Sagar makes landfall in the Middle East and the Horn of Africa, killing at least 16 people. (The Weather Channel) Law and crime Mayor Yiannis Boutaris of Greece's second largest city, Thessaloniki, is hospitalized after being assaulted by a group of nationalists at a Greek genocide remembrance event. (BBC) Politics and elections 2017–18 Spanish constitutional crisis Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, with the support of the Workers' Party and Citizens Party, decides to maintain direct rule over Catalonia after the announcement of Quim Torra appointed government. (HuffPost) The Spanish government blocks the appointment of the new councilors. (El País) Crisis in Venezuela (2012–present) Venezuelan presidential election, 2018 Incumbent President Nicolás Maduro wins the presidential election amidst allegations of massive irregularities by his main rivals. (Reuters) Sports 2017–18 NHL season 2018 Stanley Cup playoffs The Vegas Golden Knights become the first expansion team to make the Stanley Cup Finals in their first season since 1968, a season in which one of the six teams that entered the league was guaranteed to reach the final. (CBS Sports)

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(Posted) RD: Richard N. Goodwin

Article: Richard N. Goodwin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT, WaPo, NPR, Boston Globe
Credits:

• Nominated by Davey2116 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Neutrality (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American speechwriter and political advisor dies at 86. Some sourcing issues. Davey2116 (talk) 04:06, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose as noted in the nom, not quite thoroughly enough referenced. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:40, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Support good work. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:12, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - I have substantially revised. @The Rambling Man:, @Davey2116:. Neutrality^talk 19:07, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Looks ready.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:42, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support looks good to go. Lepricavark (talk) 19:57, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted. Black Kite (talk) 20:45, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

RD: Bill Gold

Article: Bill Gold (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

• Nominated by Challenger l (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Not a very long article - requires a lot of proper sourcing. Challenger l (talk) 00:36, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Article could use a full length career section (seeing he has the qualifications for one), a death section as the article abruptly ends by listing all of his credits and the article needs way more sourcing. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:44, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose sourcing (or lack of it) alone is enough to stop this one. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:44, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

(Attention required) Cyclone Sagar

Article: Cyclone Sagar (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Cyclone Sagar makes landfall in Somalia, killing at least 16 people. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Cyclone Sagar makes landfall in the Middle East and East Africa, killing at least 16 people.
News source(s): The Weather Channel
Credits:

• Nominated by EternalNomad (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Strongest cyclone in Somalia's history according to TWC. EternalNomad (talk) 04:19, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support Article looks okay.  Nixinova  T  C  06:29, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - Several referencing issues. Sherenk1 (talk) 06:52, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Support - Issues addressed - Sherenk1 (talk) 04:23, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Addressed some CN tags. A lot of other referencing seems to have been addressed. Note that more recent reporting is putting death toll at 31+, so blurb may need to be double-checked before this gets posted. Kenmelken (talk • contribs) 15:04, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support with updated blurb. Article looks well referenced. Avg W (talk) 19:31, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment needs an admin to deal with the copyvio notice, but consensus to post is clear here. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:17, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) Venezuelan presidential elections

Article: Venezuelan presidential election, 2018 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Nicolás Maduro is reelected as President of Venezuela in a contested election (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Nicolás Maduro is reelected as President of Venezuela
Alternative blurb II: ​ Venezuela's President Nicolás Maduro has won re-election to another six-year term.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Incumbent Nicolás Maduro is re-elected President of Venezuela
News source(s): The New York Times The Guardian BBC The Washington Post The Telegraph
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Jamez42 (talk · give credit)

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Per WP:ITNR Jamez42 (talk) 03:12, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment I think the blurb needs to be more clearly worded. It's an WP:EGG as-is. Does "contested election" mean that the fairness and validity are in question? power~enwiki (π, ν) 03:14, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

It does. However I'd be grateful for blurb suggestions since English is not my native language. --Jamez42 (talk) 03:17, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment - Provided Alt blurb 2. Sherenk1 (talk) 04:07, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose - See referencing issues. Sherenk1 (talk) 04:53, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Fine article. Added altblurb3.  Nixinova  T  C  06:28, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Would prefer waiting for more international reactions to the results to be added to the wikiarticle. --PFHLai (talk) 09:55, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

@PFHLai: Updated with the "Recognition" section. However I don't think that there will be many more announcements since most of the governments mentioned already declared they would dismiss/accept the results beforehand, like the Lima Group. --Jamez42 (talk) 18:32, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support. This is on ITNR (head of state election), so I've adjusted the nom template. The article is detailed and looks well-referenced on a quick look, with prose on the result and reactions. We never cast doubt on the legitimacy of an election in a blurb - that can be left to the article. alt1 or alt2 are fine with me. Modest Genius ^talk 12:44, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Actually that reaction section is mostly to the buildup rather than the result. Some additional material would indeed help there. Modest Genius ^talk 12:45, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

@Modest Genius: Is it possible to add in tge blurb somehow that the election is polemic? Several international bodies have warned against its irregularities and governments have warned that they would not recognize the results.--Jamez42 (talk) 14:55, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

This comes up every time there is a disputed election. Consensus at ITN has consistently been that it's impossible to accurately summarise electoral concerns and stick to a WP:NPOV within the short length of an ITN blurb. The concerns are rightly discussed in the article and prominently stated in its lead, so anyone who clicks the bold link will immediately be aware that not everyone thinks the election was fair. It's not ITN's job to decide which side is correct. Of course consensus can change, but I don't see a good reason to go against it here. Modest Genius ^talk 15:27, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

The best blurb for any (especially heads of state) election is better and more encyclopedic in the from of "xxx is elected president of yyy". I wish this should be made standard phrasing for these elections. Because there's no election that is 100% absolutely accepted by everybody, even if it is a mock election. Moreover, ITN is not meant to editorialize or tell what is right, which is what essentially bringing weasel words like "disputed", " contested", "unfair", "sham election" and their like will mean. –Ammarpad (talk) 15:36, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Roger, thanks! --Jamez42 (talk) 16:43, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

• Weak Oppose It's not horrible, but referencing is weak. Too many unsourced claims. -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:02, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

⇒ In blurbs 1 & 2, "as" is redundant. Sca (talk) 13:10, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Is that an ENGVAR difference? To me it sounds like an Americanism if you remove the 'as'. Modest Genius ^talk 14:02, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

I concur. "as" is just fine. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:14, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

As president is not an office in any country I know of. Cf. Washington Post, Nov. 9, 2016: "Donald Trump, a New York real estate developer and former reality television star, was elected president of the United States on Tuesday, stunning many ...." – Sca (talk) 17:40, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

'As' is a conjuction, not part of the office name, as I'm sure you know. Looks like ENGVAR. cf. BBC one month ago: "expected to be elected as president". Modest Genius ^talk 18:13, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Which type of English do they speak in Venezuela? Sca (talk) 19:21, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Aha, change the goalposts... The Rambling Man (talk) 19:41, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support Alt. 3 – Looks OK. Sca (talk) 19:23, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Alt3. Spencer^T•C 23:09, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Ernst Sieber

Article: Ernst Sieber (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Neue Zürcher Zeitung
Credits:

• Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 01:53, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support. Article looks a bit brief, but solidly sourced. Challenger l (talk) 03:34, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:47, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted --PFHLai (talk) 09:36, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Billy Cannon

Article: Billy Cannon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NOLA
Credits:

• Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article is GA --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:44, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• support - ready for posting.BabbaQ (talk) 16:49, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Article is in good shape. –Ammarpad (talk) 18:34, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Good job on the article. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:57, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

May 19

Portal:Current events/2018 May 19

May 19, 2018 (2018-05-19) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian military intervention in Ukraine Ukraine's Joint Forces Operation says Russian-led militants have mounted 43 attacks on Ukrainian troops in Donbas in the past 24 hours, using artillery systems and 120mm and 82mm mortars 10 times, with no casualties among the Ukrainian servicemen. According to intelligence data, two militants are killed and three others wounded. (UNIAN) Arts and culture Wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle The wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle takes place at St George's Chapel, Windsor Castle. They are given the titles the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. (BBC) International relations 2018 China–United States trade dispute The United States and China say through a joint statement that they will not impose new tariffs on each other after reaching an initial agreement on the trade framework. (CNN) Law and crime Human rights in Saudi Arabia Women's rights in Saudi Arabia The state security of Saudi Arabia arrests seven women's rights activists, whom the pro-government media presented as "traitors to the fatherland," for allegedly working with foreign entities. These arrests take place a little more than a month before the driving ban for women is lifted. (The Independent) Politics and elections Antireligious campaigns in China, Freedom of religion in China The Islamic Association of China, a government-affiliated and the country's top Islamic regulatory body, announces through a letter on its website that all mosques should raise the national flag; the letter comes in light of the country's newly revised Regulations on Religious Affairs which intensifies punishments for unsanctioned religious activities and increases state supervision of religion. (The Times of India) French Polynesian legislative election, 2018 Edouard Fritch is re-elected to a second term as President of French Polynesia following the victory by his Tapura Huiraatira party in the general election. Fritch's Tapura Huiraatira won 39 of the 57 seats in the Assembly of French Polynesia. (Radio New Zealand International) Iraqi parliamentary election, 2018 The electoral commission announces the results of the May 12 elections. Muqtada al-Sadr's list wins most seats, followed by Hadi al-Amiri and Haider al-Abadi's groups. (Reuters) 2017–18 Spanish constitutional crisis New President of the Generalitat of Catalonia, Quim Torra, forms a new regional government, including the dismissed and imprisoned members Jordi Turull and Josep Rull, and "self-exiled" dismissed members Lluís Puig and Toni Comín. (El Periódico) Sports 2018 DFB-Pokal Final Eintracht Frankfurt beat Bayern Munich 3–1 at Olympiastadion to win the 75th edition of the DFB-Pokal. (ESPN) 2018 FA Cup Final Chelsea beat Manchester United 1–0 at Wembley to win the 137th edition of the FA Cup. (BBC Sport) 2018 Preakness Stakes Justify wins the second leg of the Triple Crown, the Preakness Stakes, in 1:55.93. (ESPN)

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(Withdrawn) 2018 FA Cup Final

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2018 FA Cup Final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In English association football, Chelsea beat Manchester United at Wembley to win the 137th edition of the FA Cup. (Post)
News source(s): (BBC Sport)
Credits:

• Nominated by PFHLai (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Harambe Walks (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: To displace the old news on Manchester City winning the EPL. PFHLai (talk) 08:25, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose not a comment on the quality of the article, but simply that we already post the winners of the league in England, and while this is the oldest association football competition in the world, it's probably still of niche interest. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:29, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Well, Manchester City winning the EPL is no longer the latest big news on English football. It doesn't look right to keep that blurb on ITN. Please update the news on English football. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 08:42, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
    • What are you talking about "please update the news on English football"? Please don't use ITN and the main page in this way. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:42, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose on notability. The FA cup is significantly less important than the Premier League (notably, winning the FA Cup doesn’t even get you a Champions League spot). The line for football notability is above this. —LukeSurl ^{t c} 08:48, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Bernard Lewis

Article: Bernard Lewis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post
Credits:

• Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article sufficiently well sourced for overall article length --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:37, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• Weak oppose a handful of [cn]s added in which need resolution, but otherwise good work. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:14, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
• @The Rambling Man:: I got the CN tags sourced Mr. TRM.--TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:34, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Now looks much better and adequate. –Ammarpad (talk) 18:50, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - looks good. ready for posting.BabbaQ (talk) 22:11, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support good work, good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:46, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted --PFHLai (talk) 09:02, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) 2018 Cannes Film Festival

Article: 2018 Cannes Film Festival (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Shoplifters wins the Palme d'Or at the 2018 Cannes Film Festival. (Post)
News source(s): France 24
Credits:

• Nominated by Fitzcarmalan (talk · give credit)

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Both articles require some serious updating/expansion. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 22:34, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment - Both updated now, though the film article might need a plot section. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 22:54, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak oppose basically no prose (lead material is either not expanded upon or mentioned in the body) and no key/symbol combination for winners (per accessibility requirements), but comprehensive and referenced. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:54, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support iff we change the bold target to Shoplifters (film). That at least has a short paragraph about the award, with multiple references and a quote from the judges. Modest Genius ^talk 14:55, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Yep, just about to suggest having the film as the bold target, instead of the festival. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:45, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support noting prose rationale at last year's nom. Academy Awards make the Main Page every year; Cannes doesn't, even though we're not supposed to be only American Wikipedia. Ribbet32 (talk) 20:01, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
  • At the time the 90th Academy Awards was posted the article had several paragraphs of prose about the ceremony. Presently, none of the blurbs in the box are about the US, and three of them are Euro-centric. Stinks more like Europedia than "only American Wikipedia". Come on. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:53, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
  • What in the world are you talking about? Cannes is at WP:ITNR, and it was posted last year. –HTD 00:49, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support I changed the bolding as the blurb is about the film more than the award. L293D (☎ • ✎) 00:39, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen

Iraq Elections

Article: Iraqi parliamentary election, 2018 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An alliance headed by a former Shia militia chief Muqtada al-Sadr wins the Iraqi parliamentary elections. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Sherenk1 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Ahmedo Semsurî (talk · give credit)

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Results are out. Sherenk1 (talk) 12:30, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Some of the tables need citations, and the results need prose, too. Vanamonde (talk) 13:05, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support all issues look fixed, good to go. 97.46.0.216 (talk) 14:16, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• ”Wins the most seats” would be better in the blurb, as no bloc reached a majority of seats. —LukeSurl ^{t c} 14:40, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment The blurb should specify that it's about Iraq. People shouldn't have to click the link to find out which country the blurb is referring to. TompaDompa (talk) 15:11, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - seems ready for posting.BabbaQ (talk) 23:06, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose the prose needs thoroughly checking for statements which are out of date (e.g. "the Civilized Alliance,[38][39] led by Faiq Al Sheikh Ali, which currently has 4 seats") and the "Seat allocation" section is unreferenced. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:01, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support. The article looks sufficient to me. Modest Genius ^talk 14:58, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

  Including all the out-of-date prose? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:01, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose? (maybe not) the ref for the results is an excel spreadsheet. I can't read Arabic, but it looks like a tab per region or province or something. Anyway, there are more rows in that sheet than rows in the wiki table. The spreadsheet looks like it has a tally of votes per candidate. Even not being able to read the language, it looks like WP:PRIMARY or WP:OR. I could ignore for some things, but not for results. If I'm wrong, go ahead and tell me why happy to change !vote. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:03, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) Royal Wedding

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the United Kingdom, the Royal Wedding between Prince Harry and Meghan Markle takes place. (Post)
News source(s): ABC News, BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by SamaranEmerald (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Now before everyone starts blasting this nomination with opposes (which is highly certain), keep in mind that this has been the talk of the world within the past few months. This has been getting massive attention in the last hour by various news sources across the globe. P.S. give me some slack as I have never posted a nomination before. SamaranEmerald (talk) 12:04, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support notable event with loads of press traction Barryob (Contribs) (Talk) 12:16, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - huge event of global interest, estimated to be watched by over a billion people worldwide FF2010 12:22, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - World wide coverage. BabbaQ (talk) 12:23, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - I'm no fan of royalty, but this is a highly notable event, and significant for bringing a mixed-race divorcee into the royal family. We missed a trick by not having this on the front page during the ceremony. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:29, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support the BBC commentators say almost 2 billion people watched this live. I think it ought to be noted, since there won't be another Royal Wedding for some time. Plus the number of A-List stars who turned up was impressive. JLJ001 (talk) 12:33, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• [T]here won't be another Royal Wedding for some time. O RLY? --184.248.15.94 (talk) 13:48, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support - This is in the news and historic. Perhaps we could add the tax bill for UK "commoners" too? (e.g. "takes place at a cost of...")Zigzig20s (talk) 12:36, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment if someone can find an image, I would be pleased if you add it, thank you. SamaranEmerald (talk) 12:39, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• The Swedish commentator said the broadcast from the wedding was royaly free, could this mean something for WP-good licence for pics? cart-Talk 12:42, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support Huge world-wide interest and we need some joy once in a while at ITN. Get it up there as soon as possible or we look like squares. cart-Talk 12:40, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support ground-breaking royal wedding, global audience of the order of 2 billion, long-lasting, high-impact news. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:46, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - we serve to drive people directly to articles which they will be looking for anyway due to the news. Judging by last year's records, people will absolutely be searching for this item, and the article quality is decent. Stormy clouds (talk) 12:48, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support time to post this. Aiken D 12:54, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted I'm one of the "what's the fuss all about" people, so maybe I'm the right one to post this. Vanamonde (talk) 13:03, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support (ec) The uncertainties have been resolved now and, yesterday, the article got more views than all the other ITN blurb items combined. Andrew D. (talk) 13:05, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Support with two billion people around the world watching the event on live television, it’s safe to say this is a big deal. 97.46.0.216 (talk) 14:18, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Request - Could someone please change so Meghan, Duchess of Sussex is the page direct in the blurb at ITN. Right now its Meghan Markle which is a redirect.BabbaQ (talk) 18:33, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

•  Done. Black Kite (talk) 18:36, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• I see that we're continuing our dubious tradition of titling articles about British Royalty, but not many others (particularly outside Europe), their official titles. Vanamonde (talk) 05:14, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• How else would we name her and the article since it is her official name, she now has no last name but her title. "Meghan (formerly Meghan Merkle)"? cart-Talk 09:55, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• Well, we've no problem referring to the emperor of Japan as "Akihito", or the king of Thailand as "Vajiralongkorn", right? We seem to get by without the official title there; I'm sure we could think of something. But really that's not my point: I'm not too bothered by giving people their titles. My point is that we take so much care to get the titles of British royals right (your comment being a case in point) but don't seem to bother with most others. Just as, for instance, knighthoods are an exception to WP:HONORIFIC, but other national honors are not. Vanamonde (talk) 10:22, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• We seem to use titles for European royals and not for the rest, so there is some "method in the madness". cart-Talk 11:55, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• That doesn't really make it any better. Vanamonde (talk) 12:40, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• Yes, it's one of the glaring "unspoken" examples of Euro-centrism on Wikipedia. There's not really much that can be done about it.--WaltCip (talk) 13:14, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• Post-posting oppose - I know my opposing of it won't make much of a difference, but Prince Harry is currently sixth in the line of succession to the British throne, so this feels more like a celebrity story (which I have yet to see on List of most watched television broadcasts) than a game changing event. ITN shouldn't be a news ticker. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 19:04, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Won't it take at least 24 hours to appear at List of most watched television broadcasts? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:06, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Since most of that article is unreferenced, it's probably not something to use evidentially in any way. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:04, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose and pull. Absolutely not. Minor royal who is merely 6th in the line of succession to the throne in his country and utterly unlikely to ever become head of state. This belongs in the gossip press in the UK, not on the front page of an international encyclopedia. We should ask ourselves: Would we post the wedding of, say, the guy who is 6th in the line of succession to the throne in Thailand with no prospect of ever succeeding, or the grandchild of Donald Trump (arguably a much, much more influential person than any member of this minor royal's family) merely on account of being the grandchild of Donald Trump? --Tataral (talk) 21:00, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

  Two billion people round the world disagree. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:03, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Two billion people (may have) watched the event. Doesn't mean they agree that it's ITN material. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 21:18, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Pull the other one, it's got bells on!! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:32, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Two billion people around the world are a bunch of twits.--WaltCip (talk) 00:51, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Why? It was a really nice event, nothing but full of positivity, bridged gaps, shook up the traditions, showed the new generation of progressive Royals, there's nothing to dislike about it. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:04, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't dislike it. I simply find it irrelevant to my life and to my interests.--WaltCip (talk) 13:13, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Manchester City winning the Premier League is irrelevant to my life and to my interests, but that doesn't mean it should be removed from ITN. Philip Stevens (talk) 14:57, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support Long term significance is not clear but when you have billions watching your wedding and you are on the front page of pretty much every newspaper in the world... Anyways, many years to the happy couple. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:23, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 18

Portal:Current events/2018 May 18

May 18, 2018 (2018-05-18) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2018 Santa Fe High School shooting A school shooting takes place at Santa Fe High School in Texas, United States. Eight students and two teachers are killed and thirteen others are injured. (KTRK-TV) (BBC) A gunman opens fire on the Trump National Doral Miami golf resort in Doral, Florida, before being shot and wounded by police. No other victims were reported. (The Washington Post) (USA Today) A shooting takes place outside of a high school graduation at Mt. Zion High School in Jonesboro, Georgia. One person is killed and another wounded. (Los Angeles Times) (FOX2Now) Business and economy Facebook–Cambridge Analytica data scandal Cambridge Analytica files for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. (CNN) Disasters and accidents Cubana de Aviación Flight 972 A Boeing 737 crashes shortly after taking off from Havana, Cuba, with 104 passengers and nine crew on board. Only three people are reported to have survived the crash. One survivor later dies from her injuries. (CNN) (BBC) Over 30 people are injured, seven seriously, in a bus collision at Lincoln Tunnel between New Jersey and New York, United States. (Business Insider) Health and environment 2018 Democratic Republic of the Congo Ebola virus outbreak Two more cases of ebola reported in the city of Mbandaka in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. 25 people have died this year in the country from the disease, with a wider outbreak feared. (The Guardian) Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal Sergei Skripal is discharged from hospital after two months. (BBC) Law and crime All 34 Roman Catholic bishops in Chile offer to resign after Pope Francis accused them of destroying evidence of sexual crimes. (Reuters) Politics and elections Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh The government of Myanmar agrees to repatriate 1,101 Rohingya refugees out of a list of over 8,000 submitted by their Bangladeshi counterparts. There are currently over 700,000 Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh. (The Daily Star)

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(Posted) RD: Stephanie Adams

Article: Stephanie Adams (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, Fox News, NYT
Credits:

• Nominated by Fuebaey (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American model. Fuebaey (talk) 02:10, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support adequate. Fucking tragic that she took her child with her. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:14, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - Thin but postable. Death section needs expansion. Jusdafax (talk) 09:25, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - just about adequate for posting.BabbaQ (talk) 10:18, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Looks OK. –Ammarpad (talk) 03:32, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posting – Muboshgu (talk) 17:55, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) Cuba aircraft crash

Article: Cubana de Aviación Flight 972 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ More than 100 people are killed when a passenger airline crashes shortly after takeoff from Havana, Cuba. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNN
Credits:

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: There's no yet official word of number of deaths/survivors, but initial statement suggests only a few people may have survived this. Masem (t) 18:29, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose - The article badly needs expansion before it can be posted to the main page.--WaltCip (talk) 18:46, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose at this time. Needs expansion. Less relevant right now than the shooting in Texas (which does need to be added to the main page, in my opinion. Rockstonetalk to me! 19:08, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Wait - The event is obviously worthy of being posted, but the article needs to be fully fleshed out first.--Minerman30 19:09, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Not productive. 331dot (talk) 19:47, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Question so far, just in 2018 we posted US-Bangla Airlines Flight 211 (51 dead), Saratov Airlines Flight 703 (71 dead), 2018 Russian Air Force Antonov An-26 crash (39 dead), Iran Aseman Airlines Flight 3704 (66 dead) and 2018 Algerian Air Force Il-76 crash (257 dead). With you people frantically tripping over eachother to write off 9 dead kids in Santa Fe as "routine" and "already falling out of the headlines" could someone please tell me what could possibly make the 6th fatal commercial airline crash of 2018 so "obviously worthy of being posted" that we all know will be out of the headlines in a day anyway. Anyone? --LaserLegs (talk) 19:30, 18 May 2018 (UTC) This is an accident? And if not, it's even more notable. The gun crimes in the US are inexcusably self-inflicted. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:33, 18 May 2018 (UTC) An "accident" sounds like poor aircraft safety and design and training regulation to me. Obviously inexcusably self-inflicted. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:35, 18 May 2018 (UTC) It's a good job we're not really interested in speculation then, particularly from a non-expert. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:41, 18 May 2018 (UTC) No TRM, you've helped me see the light. When tragedy strikes, someone is at fault, and it is the societies fault for not taking appropriate steps to prevent that tragedy. So when this latest fatal crash is proven to be either pilot error or mechanical failure, I look forward to you heaping scorn upon the supporters of this nom, pointing out that it is the entire nation of Cuba and Mexico who are at fault here for either not having or not enforcing adequate training and maintenance regulations. Thank you for helping me to see the way TRM! Oh lord, THANK YOU! --LaserLegs (talk) 19:45, 18 May 2018 (UTC) Can you please stop this LaserLegs, this is not helpful at all.  Nixinova  T  C  20:03, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose also, not even the deadliest crash this year, not the first incident involving a 737. As routine as a van attack I'm afraid. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:46, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment BBC reporting 100+ deaths. --Masem (t) 19:55, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Over 100 dead—that is an extremely high number.  Nixinova  T  C  20:03, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Wait per Minerman30, we can't post a stub, but once it's a para or two thicker, it's good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:06, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Not yet It's a stub. Once expanded I will reconsider. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:24, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - significan accident with a high death toll. Mjroots (talk) 20:55, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support, the article now appears to be long enough. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:05, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment This accident merits inclusion and the vote count so far largely confirms it, so we're going to post it once the article's body gets expanded from its current state of being shorter than the introduction.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:06, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
  • I've been expanding it. There's not much to say yet, no one has postulated why it crashed. --Masem (t) 21:09, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support: Significant air disaster. Clearly notable. Article has been improved. -Kudzu1 (talk) 22:53, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - the recent expansion covers all the information that is known at the moment; the article is brief but well referenced. –FlyingAce^✈hello 23:32, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - clearly a tragic event internationally. The page has been updated with essential information. HaEr48 (talk) 23:51, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support per above. Davey2116 (talk) 01:19, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted. I've left the death toll at >100 for now per BBC, as the 110 in the article doesn't appear to be referenced yet. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:47, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Post-posting comment - I've modified the wording to "passenger aircraft" as used in the article. It's quite impossible for an airline to crash. ansh666 04:30, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Not strictly true? Or, at least, they can collapse. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:22, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Post-posting support - But suggest that the blurb gives accurate death toll of 110. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:47, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
  • @Martinevans123: the blurb has been updated since your comment, but WP:ERRORS is the place to request changes to posted blurbs. Thryduulf (talk) 13:15, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
    • That's why I posted there? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:16, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
      • They meant that ERRORS is the place to go to report issues and updates in the headlines.  Nixinova  T  C  19:41, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
        • Yes. And I meant that I reported it there first, and only came back here when I got no response. All fixed now anyway, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:53, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Pull if we aren't going to post a second major school shooting because there are a lot of minor ones that don't even have their own articles, we certainly shouldn't be posting six airplane crashes in less than six months. Lepricavark (talk) 21:36, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

This started out as irrelevant and went down hill from there. Thryduulf (talk) 00:53, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Sour grapes. These aeroplane crashes kill hundreds, occur for many different reasons around the globe and affect tens of thousands. The parochial slaughter of kids in schools is not in the same category. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:38, 19 May 2018 (UTC) You're perfectly comfortable comparing the parochial slaughter of kids in schools to a Kardashian Instagram post, so I don't think you have a point. Lepricavark (talk) 21:40, 19 May 2018 (UTC) Duh, the regularity and therefore meaningless-ness of it all. Yes. We don't post bombings in war zones, so we don't post shootings in the US unless they are extreme. Now change the record. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:42, 19 May 2018 (UTC) I believe shootings with 10 or more casualties qualify for a post. Obviously you don't, and that's fine. The problem is that you keep insisting that such shootings are regular and mundane and run of the mill etc., despite the clear evidence that they are not. Lepricavark (talk) 21:45, 19 May 2018 (UTC) Well it's not just me, obviously, or it would be posted, right? That's how consensus works, right? Sour grapes, exacerbated by the truly sour oppose on the crash in Havana which killed more than 100 people and has caused two days of mourning and knocked the school incident right out of the news. Poor form. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:47, 19 May 2018 (UTC) Consensus (or a failure to arrive at one) can be wrong, and on Wikipedia it frequently is. This is one of those cases. Lepricavark (talk) 21:51, 19 May 2018 (UTC) In your own opinion. Moving on now, just like the news, just like the gun lobbyists, see you back here in a couple of months time to revisit the same old cracked rotating disk. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:54, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• @Lepricavark: as you've moved your comment outside the collapsed box, I feel compelled to note that "This started out as irrelevant" was a reference to your "pull" !vote not The Rambling Man's very relevant response to that !vote. Thryduulf (talk) 13:11, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

• I respectfully disagree with your assessment and see no point in arguing my position further. Lepricavark (talk) 14:56, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

(Closed) Santa Fe school shooting

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Santa Fe High School shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A shooting at a high school near Houston leaves at least ten dead (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the United States, a school shooting in Santa Fe, Texas, kills at least ten people.
Alternative blurb II: ​ A school shooting in Santa Fe, Texas, U.S., kills at least ten people.
News source(s): CNN, NYT, BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by 107.19.188.168 (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating

 107.19.188.168 (talk) 16:02, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose business as usual. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:06, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Umm.. it’s not “business as usual”. We can’t just sweep this under the rug and say “another day, another shooting”. Eight people were brutally murdered for no reason! #NeverAgain 107.19.188.168 (talk) 16:07, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia and ITN are not for righting great wrongs. 331dot (talk) 19:35, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Yes, 107.xx, it is "business as usual" in America these days. I wish it were not so, but school shootings are now a fairly regular occurrence in the United States. Kurtis ^(talk) 19:52, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

No it's not. See below, where Brandmeister points out that this is a once in every three year occurrence, so not "fairly regular". – Muboshgu (talk) 23:54, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support in principle There's no WP:MINIMUMDEATHS; this is in the news, not only all over the U.S. but it's also the lead story on the BBC, etc. However, the article is a stub at the moment. Davey2116 (talk) 16:10, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Good work. Full support from me. Davey2116 (talk) 20:51, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) Weak Oppose I hate citing WP:BODYCOUNT, but mass shootings are just so common in the US that I can't see posting them unless there is something that sets them apart from all of the others. That usually comes down to an unusually high death toll, which this comes close to, hence the "weak," or terrorism. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:15, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Support It now appears the death toll has broken double digits. That's enough for me. Mass shootings may be fairly common but this level of casualties is still, thank God, not. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:49, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. Sadly, it is just another day another school shooting in the USA. It is appalling that this is the case, and something does need to be done but ITN is not the venue for that. Thryduulf (talk) 16:19, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose.(edit conflict) Yet another mass shooting in a country where such things are (sadly) common. I'll be willing to reassess if unexpected details emerge, but right now I'm not seeing anything that makes this one so exceptional that it merits an ITN blurb (c.f. Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States#Deadliest_mass_shootings). We're not here to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. Nor is merely being in the news sufficient; we must consider the long-term encyclopaedic importance of the event. Modest Genius ^talk 16:23, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose yet another school shooting in the US, I am not surprised, the death toll is notably low and these are starting to become commonplace as one user above notes. Despite common belief, It will likely have no long-term impact, similar to most of the other shootings in recent years. SamaranEmerald (talk) 16:32, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - Let's just accept it's become a part of the ingrained culture nowadays like taking out the garbage or going to the supermarket.--WaltCip (talk) 16:36, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support. This is in the news and the article is in good shape, the reports of explosives could be classified as "unexpected details". -- Tavix ^(talk) 19:00, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support school shootings may not be rare, but most of them don't result in this many deaths. Lepricavark (talk) 19:18, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Ten should meet your WP:MINIMUMDEATHS for a mass shooting. Article is short, but okay, and will be expanded. This shooting is in the news, which is allegedly our purpose. Certain disparaging remarks made in opposition should be disregarded by uninvolved admins. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:23, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

  I don't see any disparaging remarks. They are all opinion based in very real fact. This has already started dropping down the news following the Cuba crash. This is completely unremarkable and will have no long-term impact, and has happened many times before and will happen many times again, probably this year. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:25, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

  Of course you wouldn't see "business as usual" regarding a school shooting to be in any way disparaging, or a comment comparing a school shooting to "taking out the garbage or going to the supermarket." You were pretty sure the Parkland shooting would have no lasting impact as well, as I recall. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:30, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

  Clearly it has not made any difference whatsoever. Or do you think there would have been even more mass shootings? I'm unclear. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:31, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

  If you Google "Parkland shooting", you'll see the ongoing coverage. I wasn't suggesting that would be the last straw that would ban guns. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:33, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

  Yeah, thanks for the advice, not required. Nothing significant has changed. We (or at least some of you) said Sandy Hook would be the last time. Tsk. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:35, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

  The process continues with another notable development, and you don't want to post it because bad things have happened before and you don't expect anything good to happen in the future. Shame that's not a reason to oppose posting a story that's in the news. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:00, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

  No it isn't, but opposition based on the fact this is routine, just like Kim Kardashian's latest Instagram photo, is a reason to oppose it. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:08, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

  So now we're comparing a school shooting where 10 people died to a Kardashian posting on Instagram. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:07, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

  Yes, both are regular, mundane, inexcusable and unending. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:38, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

  Baloney. School shootings in general make be regular and mundane, but not shootings where 10 people died. This has been clearly and repeatedly explained to the point that you are now in IDHT territory. Lepricavark (talk) 15:03, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support - A number of deaths. Large coverage beyond the "usual school shooting" in the US.BabbaQ (talk) 19:28, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose according to CNN their have been 22 shootings within the 20 weeks in 2018, which roughly one per week. This is becomingthe norm in America these days, but I’m with the opposition because we should not post every single notable shooting in the US, otherwise the topic will be attributable to US-centric views. Kirliator (talk) 19:29, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• How many of those shootings have been nominated here? Lepricavark (talk) 19:41, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support - A large number of deaths, and likely to hae a long term impact on politics, at least in Texas --Rockstonetalk to me! 19:30, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - Regular events should not be promoted to ITN unless there is something particularly unusual and newsworthy about them. This appears, unless further facts emerge, to be a run-of-the-mill US school shooting. Black Kite (talk) 19:31, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Most school shootings don't result in 10 deaths. Or any at all. This is a notable event. --Rockstonetalk to me! 19:47, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment can we please just close this before I have to read any more "Oppose - more dead kids in America" comments that disregard the fact that this item is actually "in the news"? We know it won't be posted. Please just close it and be done. Please. Please. I can't stand to read another smug comment about "gun control in the USA". Just shut it down already. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:34, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

No one compels you to read any post here- and I'm still waiting for your formal proposal to make "in the news" the only criterion for posting. 331dot (talk) 19:40, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

From Wikipedia:In_the_news#Purpose "To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news." so you just let me know where it says that "significant deaths" are required, or that a story pass the "would we post it from Uganda" test, or "we don't post subnational elections" or whatever other made up fake requirements you arbitrarily hold nominations to and we'll be all set. I'll continue to look and see if the item is "In the news" per the purpose of ITN. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:38, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't have any requirements, fake or otherwise- just consensus, as with almost all Wikipedia decisions. I don't see why ITN should be different than the rest of Wikipedia. There's a lot more to ITN guidelines than that one line. Still waiting for your news ticker proposal, or your proposal to eliminate all criteria other than "in the news", or even for your nomination of the latest Kim Kardashian story. 331dot (talk) 22:11, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support Lots of people dead. This is sadly getting normal in the USA, but this is a lot of deaths.  Nixinova  T  C  19:38, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment for context, see List of school shootings in the United States (the only nation with its own dedicated article) where the sheer size of even the tables from the start of the 21st century indicates that this is just a really regular event. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:42, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• The vast majority of those shootings resulted in no more than two deaths. This nomination is for a shooting that resulted in 10 deaths. Lepricavark (talk) 19:45, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• My opposition is not on the number killed (which is startlingly small compared with events in other war zones), it is on the alarming regularity with which this kind of event happens. It is, literally, business as usual. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:49, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• School shootings are alarmingly frequent, but that does not mean we should avoid posting the worst of them. Lepricavark (talk) 19:57, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• This isn't the worst. This is far from the worst. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:08, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• It is among the worst. While there are many school shootings, most have no more than two deaths. This one had 10 deaths, so the "business as usual" argument is bogus. Lepricavark (talk) 22:40, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose per Black Kite, US school shootings that are no different from previous ones put there notability at a dangerously controversial position on ITN, this no different from Stoneman Douglas, this is no different from Sandy Hook, this is no different from Virginia Tech except for the notably lower death toll. I agree with Muboshgu that somewhere in the double digits should be the standard for the unofficial WP:MINIMUMDEATHS, but I wouldn’t call this a “large” shooting. This is the kind of nomination where bias emerge from most often. Hornetzilla78 (talk) 19:44, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak support. The cynical response of "business as usual" is accurate. But, double digits might be enough to warrant posting. That would reduce us to only two or three American school shootings in ITN a year. Resolute 19:57, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• "Only". Black Kite (talk) 20:38, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment Agree with Muboshgu that 10 deaths at minimum should be the standard for WP:MINIMUMDEATHS, as death tolls less than that generally are not warrantable to ITN unless there is a significant individual is killed as a result.Python Dan (talk) 20:05, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak support per Resolute, 2 or 3 school shootings a year on ITN is not too many. zzz (talk) 20:12, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

  I think everyone around the world should read that comment, and reflect on its significance. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:14, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support School shootings in the US may be increasingly frequent but they do not all get this level of attention. Ten deaths is a significant loss of life. Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:20, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose I have to agree with others that school shootings in the USA are too common to be posted here regularly. It is getting some coverage so will keep the oppose weak. However the coverage in my neck of the woods, which usually loves this sort of news, is lower than expected so I lean on the oppose side of the debate. AIRcorn (talk) 20:49, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Weak oppose I agree with Aircorn that Shootings in the United States is becoming too common in today’s world, however this is getting notable coverage in various media outlets, but this is the only reason why my oppose is weak. Python Dan (talk) 20:55, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per others. Another day, another shooting in the United States – it's the same old story.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:59, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support I'm not an American, but two-digit death tolls from school shootings are high enough to post, article in reasonable shape.Brandmeister^talk 21:21, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Routine in the US. Nothing is every done about them. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:23, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support Although major mass shootings in the U.S. like this are common, it's still an extremely terrible event and to not include it in the main news section would be potentially offensive - it would imply that 10 people being shot and killed in a school isn't serious or truly newsworthy. PlanetDeadwing (talk) 21:29, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support The is a school mass shooting in the double digits. TheHoax (talk) 21:30, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• oppose school shootings in the USA are becoming too common and mundane for ITN, it’s time standards be set for disasters like this. Also most of the supporters are simply putting canned explanations which isn’t very convincing. 24.100.167.151 (talk) 21:41, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose This is just another plain old US school shooting, and nothing is special about it. Maybe there could be an additional panel on the main page for such events? ie, one for "news", one for "recent deaths" and then one for US school shootings. Chrisclear (talk) 21:56, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment Saying "this is too common" is merely a knee-jerk reaction without context. Per List of school shootings in the United States, in this year there were only two two-digit death tolls so far. Before that, a 2-digit death toll was in 2015, three years ago. And before that a 2-digit death toll happened in 2012, also a three-year gap. Judge for yourself. Brandmeister^talk 22:00, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

@Brandmeister, they are talking about the frequency of shootings overall, not “double digit” shootings, read this [6]. Python Dan (talk) 22:08, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Frequency is another matter, that's why we posted Stoneman Douglas High School shooting based on death toll alone. Transport accidents are common too, but 2018 Kazakhstan bus fire was posted. Now we're abandoning this long-standing criterion, essentially saying "we don't want the reality anymore, it's too dull". Brandmeister^talk 22:39, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. The frequency of relatively minor incidents should not cause us to ignore the major incidents. I hope whoever makes the decision on this nomination can see the silliness of the "business as usual" argument. Lepricavark (talk) 22:47, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• @Brandmeister: One can reasonably argue for or against listing this. But don't dismiss the opposers like that. I mean, come on, it's only May and there have "only" been two double digit mass murders US schools? In other words, there have been 20 school shootings in the United States in the first 5 months of 2018, 10% of which have a death toll in the double digits. But people who think it's "too common" are being unreasonable and reactionary? What sort of metric would have to be satisfied for you to think that this has become too common? Swarm ♠ 22:48, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Yes, the year hasn't ended, but let's compare apples to apples, not oranges. In the historical perspective, per the above list, there were a total of six double-digit death tolls in 18 years (including this shooting). Six in eighteen years, since the 2000s, meaning about once every 3 years. That's hardly common or frequent. Brandmeister^talk 23:05, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• "Double digit" is an arbitrarily-selected limit, but convenient for advocates of this ITN candidate because the death toll happens to be 10. HaEr48 (talk) 00:12, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• No, it's a precedent per Stoneman Douglas High School, Sandy Hook and likely other previous shootings posted. Brandmeister^talk 09:52, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Weak Support Just over three months since the last one, I guess this barely makes the cut. Juxlos (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support: Ten civilians being shot dead in broad daylight in a country that, despite its outrageously high rate of gun-related deaths, is not in fact a warzone is still notable. The "22 school shootings" figure elides the scale of a shooting like Santa Fe or Parkland in which many people (children, at that) die, as opposed to one or two. -Kudzu1 (talk) 22:51, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Sadly, a US school shooting of this magnitude is no longer an event of international significance :( HaEr48 (talk) 23:46, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
  • • • But this IS of international significance. It pushed the royal wedding off the top of the news on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation website, albeit briefly. HiLo48 (talk) 03:15, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Who said it has to be of international significance? From above: "Please do not ... oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." – Muboshgu (talk) 23:50, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
    • I agree an event does not have to be related to a single country—but in my view the impact should be. For example, a head of state election is a single-country affair but has international impact. Major terrorist attacks normally elicit international responses. But this kind of event is no longer significant outside the US. If you see the linked BBC article, it just reports the event as-is (as if just a local news from USA) without any in-depth analysis. HaEr48 (talk) 23:56, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Routine for a country with poor health care and laughable gun control. Only in death does duty end (talk) 00:18, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Close? I am thinking it might be time for an uninvolved admin to close this as no consensus. This discussion has gotten a lot of participation and I see no realistic likelihood of overcoming the sharp divide. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:16, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support As much as I hate to say it is business as usual, once a death toll for a school shooting like this has broken the double digits, it is news worth having on the front page. Plus, it's been a while since the last one. If it had only been, like, a few weeks or something, then I'd reconsider. -Beowul116 (talk) 02:35, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - Wikipedia doesn't split European and American mass murders. Yes, the situation is far too common, but no one has given an actual reason it shouldn't be included.AJackSpear (talk) 02:42, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• "far too common" is an actual reason it shouldn't be included. HaEr48 (talk) 02:56, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support Made the news in Australia. We are discussing "In The News". HiLo48 (talk) 03:15, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Australia? You mean where this sort of thing doesn't happen? At all? I thought you were one of the big pushers against systemic bias.--WaltCip (talk) 03:28, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Huh? HiLo48 (talk) 03:52, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oh my goodness. Do I need to spell it out for you? The support for this story is predicated on systemic bias.--WaltCip (talk) 03:55, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Do start spelling. HiLo48 (talk) 04:06, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• It made worldwide news. At this point, I'm not arguing on whether it is newsworthy or not, or whether it's happened far too often, I'm saying if this has made news all across the world, which it has, if the whole world has woken up, turned on their TV, and saw "Santa Fe High School shooting leaves 10 dead", it should be on ITN. -Beowul116 (talk) 03:45, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Comment on content, not on the contributor. See WP:No personal attacks. TompaDompa (talk) 09:09, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I should remind everyone that HiLo48 attacked several users on this page last month when a controversial nomination regarding a penis transplant was nominated, he attacked several users who opposed it, namely those that called it inappropriate and obscene. Python Dan (talk) 03:50, 19 May 2018 (UTC) I am not the topic here. HiLo48 (talk) 03:52, 19 May 2018 (UTC) No, you shouldn't remind us of that because it's not relevant to this discussion. Lepricavark (talk) 05:10, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment I'm neutral on this at the moment, but I find it quite interesting that school shootings in the US attract far more support along the lines of "this is dreadful! It must be posted!" than bombings in Iraq and Afghanistan with far larger casualty totals. Vanamonde (talk) 05:54, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• @Vanamonde93: Indeed, interesting observation. I doubt there will be as much support for events with similar death toll in non-Western countries. Probably this is one instance of systemic biases that we should actively counter in Wikipedia. HaEr48 (talk) 06:30, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Indeed. What baffles the mind here is those who think that "two or three US school shootings per year isn't too much". This is a single classification of crime (mass shooting) occurring at a single type of location (education facility) in a single country (the US). The style of crime happens at least on a weekly basis. And all because of the negligence of those who allow/enable such events to take place due to archaic and irrelevant gun laws and incorrect interpretations of amendments to constitutions. And, of course, political funding. Schools in the US are war zones, and as such we should dismiss these nominations as so often those bombings in Iraq and Afghanistan are dismissed. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:21, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment Ten as a cutoff has some support in articles. Specifically, Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States#Deadliest_mass_shootings and the corresponding talk page discussion. It's a pretty fractured discussion, and I'm not sure how I'd read consensus there, but User:Undescribed's list of other articles where ten is the cutoff is instructive. Of course, having a cutoff is inherently somewhat arbitrary (just like voting age, drinking age, etc.).--Chaser (talk) 06:58, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• That seems a reasonable rule of thumb. As with air crashes, there should be some flexibility. But thst's notability. A higher bar is required for ITN. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 08:53, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment ironically, someone above noted today's Royal Wedding. Now I suspect this may get nominated and snow-closed, but goodness me, it will be viewed by hundreds of millions of people around the world, will be remembered for years to come and has a real impact in the history of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth. Meanwhile, this standard gun crime will be nearly instantly forgotten outside Texas and the anti-gun lobby (it's already third in the list of main news items). Perspective is required here. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:34, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Both made it into history and will be remembered in its own right. But comparing a wedding with a shooting is apples and oranges again. Brandmeister^talk 07:53, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
  • The wedding won't really have "a real impact in the history of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth". Harry is only 5th in line to the throne. Never likely to be king. This couple will fade into standard obscurity for minor royalty in a couple of years. The school shooting is part of a a much more major issue. HiLo48 (talk) 07:57, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

    The school shooting will be just another statistic next month. Harry will be headlines for years to come. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 08:44, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

    Many more people in AmuricA will be talking about the Royal Wedding than this specific shooting, and for years to come! The Rambling Man (talk) 12:37, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:ROUTINE. —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap shit room} 09:09, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - Worldwide news, article OK, opposes seem rote. Jusdafax (talk) 09:30, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• There are a consensus for posting now.BabbaQ (talk) 10:20, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• No, I don't think there is. We're at 20 supports versus 17 opposes, and I'm not seeing a good reason to discount any of the comments at the moment. Given this level of opposition, I'd like to see a significantly higher proportion of support; and even so, whoever posts this is going to face criticism, I'm afraid. Vanamonde (talk) 10:27, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Would need at least 2 to 1 for a consensus I think. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:12, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• Conditional Oppose this nomination has drawn a significant amount of criticism and controversy amongst a number of users within the past several hours. Their have been multiple cases of users attacking other users because one voted for support or oppose for various canned summaries (we.g. “common event in USA” by opposition and “large, notable attack” by the supporters). If this trend continues for the next few hours or even days, their will be no chance this nomination will be posted with a clear consensus. I choose to oppose not because of the story itself, but because of the fighting users have caused as a result of this nomination. 174.231.128.143 (talk) 11:24, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Comment I think the fact that this story has already started to disappear off front pages (the Parkland one didn't) is very telling. Black Kite (talk) 12:34, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - I decided to let this one sit for a while before casting a !vote, to gauge the impact. Aside from the usual "thoughts and prayers", there has been no tangible observable impact, beyond the ten fatalities. While a significant number, this is below the threshold for what I would consider to be important enough to post at ITN. We regularly discount items from countries on the grounds that they are war-zones, even with more than 10 fatalities. It is time to confront the reality that this is a frequent occurrence stateside, and we must account for this appropriately. It has only been three months since the Parkland shooting, and there will undoubtedly be another major shooting before the year is out (it doesn't take a crystal ball to guess that). Most of those in support are in support because they are shifting goalposts - picking an arbitrary number of deaths as being enough, and claiming that the fact that the mass shooting was in a school makes it different. There is simply not enough lasting impact to justify posting this item from a country where such events are now routine. I would suggest closing this nomination soon, as consensus will not develop. Stormy clouds (talk) 13:15, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - Fact is, this is in the news and in public interest, politicians have responded to it, and it'll be kicked off the page once the news dies down anyway. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 13:44, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Oppose this is already becoming yesterday’s news, as many of the major news outlets are now concentrated on the Royal Wedding now, leaving this event fading from memory. 97.46.0.216 (talk) 14:13, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: John Carrick

Article: John Carrick (Australian politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AFR, news.com.au, The Australian
Credits:

• Nominated by Fuebaey (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Ivar the Boneful (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian politician. Fuebaey (talk) 14:20, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment ref 10 (currently) is showing as an error. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:07, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support: Looks good to go. Error pointed out by @TRM: has been fixed. –Ammarpad (talk) 19:43, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support cool, good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:44, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
• Posted. Espresso Addict (talk) 03:06, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

References

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