Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Visual arts/Selected quote/8: Difference between revisions

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Portal:Visual arts/Selected quote/8

~~Offensive and unsourced. Can we please NOT have this in our " doorway into Wikipedia's coverage on art"?~~ Vexations (talk) 02:17, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:NOTCENSORED. A fan of pop art might find Portal:Visual arts/Selected quote/9 equally offensive but that would not be grounds to remove it either. Appropriate grounds for deletion are e.g. if the quote is arcane or by an artist who is barely relevant. — Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 05:33, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Portal talk:Visual arts has been notified of this discussion. — Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 05:39, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This is an out-of-scope attempt to micromanage a portal. Weird stuff is ok in the visual arts. This quote is weird. I recommend to them that they achieve it due to failure of verifiability. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:11, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nonsense. See Wikipedia:Offensive material ... should be used if and only if its omission would cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate, and no equally suitable alternative is available I do take your point about micromanaging a portal. I'll take it to the project to see if we can find something better. Request for deletion withdrawn. Vexations (talk) 12:52, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Come back if they are not receptive. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:43, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep per WP:NOTCENSORED. If Renoir in fact said that (a source would not come amiss) hen we should have it as helping to illuminate the attitudes of very well-noted artists to their subject matter. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 21:07, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously? What is this? Look at us being all heroic and manly standing up to censorship and illuminating the totally unknown fact that the 19th century was a pretty awful time for artist models by quoting sexist artists saying embarrassing things without contextualizing that quote? Anyway, in case you hadn't noticed, I had WITHDRAWN the nomination, but I'll offer a replacement:

“	Even when I had a fellowship for painting, some of my teachers were very hostile. 'You're taking this too seriously. You're only a girl. Don't set your heart on art.' My boyfriends in college stole my brushes and my books, like, 'We need this more than you do.'	”
	— Carolee Schneeman, Rose, Steve (2014-03-10). "Carolee Schneemann: 'I never thought I was shocking'". the Guardian. Retrieved 2018-06-17.

More selected quotes...

Vexations (talk) 00:59, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It is a great quote for shining light on historical sexism. The arts are great for this. A source is needed or it shouldn’t be used. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:08, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe we can change the quote to a quote that can be sourced: "I paint with my prick" ("Je peins avec ma queue")) in Renoir, Jean (1962). "Renoir, my father". Little, Brown. Vexations (talk) 02:28, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- I don’t see that quote at your source. Are introducing deliberate falsehoods. That is a blockable offence. Whether a quote is good to use in a portal, I suggest, depends on first it being verified, and second on others repeating the quote. One of the worst things to happen in Portals is WP:OR. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:43, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  I cited a published book that contains the quote. Vexations (talk) 02:48, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - Really? OK. I suggest that for a portal to use a quote, reliable sources should have also used the quote. Any nonsense can be a quote. If “selected quote 8” has not previously been quoted by anyone reputable, Wikipedia should not be quoting it. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:04, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    - Look, I'm making light of this situation, but I'm not making any of this up, an in fact there is considerable debate about whether Renoir said exactly that, or said something slightly different. The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations lists is as a misquotation. The more representative quote is probably "It's with my brush that I make love." (C'est avec mon pinceau que... j'aime), which is much better known. The stuff about touching women butts probably is derived from "Moi j'aime les tableaux qui me donnent envie de me balader dedans, lorsque c'est un paysage, ou bien de passer ma main sur un téton ou sur un dos, si c'est une figure de femme... Corot avait des mots très crus pour exprimer cela.". Anyway, I'd really like to see this MfD closed as "withdrawn" or "keep", but from reading Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Administrator_instructions# it doesn't look like I can do that myself by withdrawing the nomination.
    - User:DESiegel since you appear to be the only admin participating so far, would you please be so kind to close this MfD and put it out of its misery? Vexations (talk) 03:37, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 **: I cited a published book that contains the quote. [[User:Vexations|Vexations]] ([[User talk:Vexations|talk]]) 02:48, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 ***:  Really?  OK.  I suggest that for a portal to use a quote, reliable sources should have also used the quote.  Any nonsense can be a quote.  If “selected quote 8” has not previously been quoted by anyone reputable, Wikipedia should not be quoting it.  —[[User:SmokeyJoe|SmokeyJoe]] ([[User talk:SmokeyJoe|talk]]) 03:04, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
-**** Look, I'm making light of this situation, but I'm not making any of this up, an in fact there is considerable debate about whether Renoir said exactly that, or said something slightly different. The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations lists is as a misquotation. The more representative quote is probably "It's with my brush that I make love." (C'est avec mon pinceau que... j'aime), which is much better known. The stuff about touching women butts probably is derived from "Moi j'aime les tableaux qui me donnent envie de me balader dedans, lorsque c'est un paysage, ou bien de passer ma main sur un téton ou sur un dos, si c'est une figure de femme... Corot avait des mots très crus pour exprimer cela.". Anyway, I'd really like to see this MfD closed as "withdrawn" or "keep", but from reading [[Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Administrator_instructions#]] it doesn't look like I can do that myself by withdrawing the nomination. {{u|User:DESiegel}}, since you appear to be the only admin participating so far, would you please be so kind to put this MfD out of its misery? [[User:Vexations|Vexations]] ([[User talk:Vexations|talk]]) 03:33, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
+**** Look, I'm making light of this situation, but I'm not making any of this up, an in fact there is considerable debate about whether Renoir said exactly that, or said something slightly different. The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations lists is as a misquotation. The more representative quote is probably "It's with my brush that I make love." (C'est avec mon pinceau que... j'aime), which is much better known. The stuff about touching women butts probably is derived from "Moi j'aime les tableaux qui me donnent envie de me balader dedans, lorsque c'est un paysage, ou bien de passer ma main sur un téton ou sur un dos, si c'est une figure de femme... Corot avait des mots très crus pour exprimer cela.". Anyway, I'd really like to see this MfD closed as "withdrawn" or "keep", but from reading [[Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Administrator_instructions#]] it doesn't look like I can do that myself by withdrawing the nomination.
+**** {{u|User:DESiegel}}  since you appear to be the only admin participating so far, would you please be so kind to close this MfD and put it out of its misery? [[User:Vexations|Vexations]] ([[User talk:Vexations|talk]]) 03:37, 17 June 2018 (UTC)