Talk:If—

Simpsons?

This poem is quoted by Grandpa Simpson in the episode Old Money. Should it be included in the pop culture section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.90.88.131 (talk) 01:06, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Isocrates

Surprised there is no mention of the influence of the work of Isocrates here. One of the early texts... To Demonicus? If someone would be so kind as to include a footnote or comment. (94.170.64.102 (talk) 05:58, 2 October 2009 (UTC)).

Dashes

The dash in the title seems to mean links are getting messed up (since it's an extended-ASCII character). Are there any objections to moving the page to If (poem) or something similar? Shimgray 02:25, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Since there don't seem to be any objections, I'm going ahead with this change --Lox (t,c) 17:25, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Comment

My father gave me a copy of this poem, and I've since placed it on my wall to remind me that I need to be living a virtuous, hard-working, and respectable life. I'm disappointed that there are a couple of negative opinions about it here. I think the poem is actually very different from Invictus in that it leaves room for the subject to follow God, does not endorse cold-hearted resolve, and overall simply has a much more positive tone. I don't know if Timothy McVeigh ever cited this poem as one of his favorites, as Smerdis of Tlön seems to suggest above, but to imply that this poem inspires megalomania is ridiculous. This poem is just what it appears to be--an admonition to grow up as a responsible man. I suspect that probably a lot of people don't like this poem because it is male-oriented, but if more people tried to live like the man depicted in this poem, I think the world would be a better place. ~~SCW 10/17/06

Comment

If - yeah, ie --> go suck someones tities - the last recourse. ~~IHTP NOv299:43am,2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.214.36.35 (talk) 22:44, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Corrected Myanmar to Burmese. Innapropriate on many levels for the orwellian language of a military dictatorship to be used when the translator stands firmly (as in the poem) against said military dictatorship. Refer here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San_Suu_Kyi for use of Burmese in association with Aung San Suu Kyi. - BJS1/14/2007

Text of poem

Text of poem has been removed. As has already been mentioned on this talk page, Wikipedia is not for source text. That's what Wikisource is for. :) So, there's a Wikisource box there now. --Midnightdreary 22:23, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

The text should be there. Its out of copyright, a normal enyclopaedia would show it, readers expect it to be there. Just not having it because of a pedantic application of a general rule is stupid. Perhaps the rule could apply to longer material, but the poem is short. Do articles about paintings not show a picture of it? If they have pictures, then the poem should be illustrated with the text. 78.147.202.148 (talk) 12:18, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

{+1} This page is about the poem itself. --ElfQrin (talk) 00:41, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

But the poem is not about itself. 75.36.151.17 (talk) 10:44, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

If?

If the official title is "If—", why is the — omitted throughout the article? --KnightMove (talk) 11:58, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Audio

I'm very troubled by the audio file. I don't know if wikipedia standards favor any dialect of English, but the current recording definitely needs cleaning up. I'm a native English speaker from the US, and I have great difficulty understanding the poem in the current recording: I assume it's more difficult for non-native English speakers.

What are the protocols for replacing this recording? I would be willing to make one myself, if I know I'm following wikipedia standards.

Thomas1617 (talk) 02:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Agree. This is a poor recording / recital. It is very unclear. If you have the equipment & enthusiasm, please make a new recording and replace it. A recital close to the poets accent would be ideal. I too do not know where policies on this can be found, so make a recording and link to it on the talk page of the existing recording. If some time period passes without any comments supporting the existing recording, I suggest that you replace it. (A more seasoned Wiki vet. would link the ”Be Bold” page now. Cheers. Jim no.6 (talk) 14:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Originally published in...

The article states "It was first published in the Brother Square Toes chapter of Rewards and Fairies". However, I had been taught that it was first published in the Obituary column of the "The Times". The source was a book we had back in the 1970's of unusual facts and it proved to be correct on most points.

Can anyone confirm/deny if it appeared in "The Times" before publication in "Rewards and Fairies" ?

Bmoregan (talk) 14:26, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

• If someone with access to The Times' archive reads this, please check and update this article. Jim no.6 (talk) 14:27, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Where's the ****ing text?

Rather stupid not to have the text in the article nor any obvious links to it. 92.28.250.159 (talk) 13:01, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

• Rather stupid of you not to read the previous discussions about it on the talkpage, nor spot the clear link to Wikiquote.--Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 07:06, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
• No, he's perfectly right -- it was completely hidden. Most readers of the article would be interested in reading the poem itself before or after reading the article. I have moved the WikiSource link to the top so that more people can see it. Someone with a better grasp of linking to Wikisource content could change it to use a template saying something like WikiSource has a Copy of the Poem for more clarity. Jim no.6 (talk) 14:26, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

"Anthologised to Weariness"

It is frequently stated that Kipling himself noted in "Something Of Myself" that the poem had been "anthologised to weariness". (If you google that exact phrase you will see that it's commonly held). I don't have a primary reference for this, but someone might like to add one. Rob Burbidge (talk) 10:49, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Valid cultural currency

"As an evocation of Victorian-era stoicism—the “stiff upper lip” self-discipline, which popular culture rendered into a British national virtue and character trait, "If—" remains a valid cultural currency."

Aside from the punctuation mistake, this sentence is pretty clunky - particularly the term "valid cultural currency". Without trying to be unkind, it reads a bit like the sort of thing an undergraduate literature student would write in an attempt to show off their vocabulary. Are there any objections to changing it to more basic/accessible language? Lewdswap (talk) 18:13, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Italicized

Should the title be italicized? — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  21:29, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

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Apocalypse now

Hello, should be mentioned in article, that part of poem is quoted in movie Apocalypse now? its quoted by photojournalist when he is talking to willard about kurtz: ""Do you know that 'if' is the middle word in life? If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you"... I mean I'm... no, I can't... I'm a little man, I'm a little man, he's... he's a great man! I should have been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across floors of silent seas... " Nabulcar (talk) 20:15, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes, if it is cited, I agree that it should be. It is a prominent mention of it and it was in the "In popular culture" section for a long time until it was deleted about 4 months ago when an editor removed all such entries without sources. Find a good one and feel free to add it back in. JesseRafe (talk) 20:43, 12 July 2018 (UTC)