:I don't see how it could be a reliable source. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 19:35, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
:I don't see how it could be a reliable source. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 19:35, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
== New section ==
Hi, I redirected the Kurdish genocide dab page to the primary topic, Anfal, but I was surprised when I saw your name in the editing history (I did this as what seemed like obvious cleanup, but now I'm worried there may be some past discussions I wasn't aware of). The content didn't seem appropriate for a dab page. I checked Max Planck which is my go to source for authoritative international law stuff and the only thing that came up was the Iraqi Special Tribunal. In any case, I'm prepared for a discussion if it's needed, as I'm currently working on improving coverage of ICTR and ICTY cases so I have a bunch of sources already open in front of me. [[User:Seraphim System|<span style="font-family:Helvetica; color:#503753; text-shadow:#b3b3cc 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">'''Seraphim System'''</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Seraphim System|<span style="color:#009900">talk</span>]])</sup> 03:47, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
:{{re|Seraphim System}} I'll leave it to you, I don't have an opinion. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 21:12, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
== Jesus ==
Tap on the shoulder, forgot to sign your post here. [[User:Britmax|Britmax]] ([[User talk:Britmax|talk]]) 17:46, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
==Misrepresentation of the tweet==
Mr Weller, as you're so quick to advise I am wrong about Mr Ellison because I don't have four, independent, and seperate sources for the claim: I suggest you look to KEITH ELLISON VERIFIED DIRECT TWITTER ACCOUNT on January 3rd of 2018 and see for yourself in his own words and photographic evidence of his own self portrait.
Perhaps before you threaten people or censor them, you should look outside your own echo chamber bubble. [[User:PatrioticMiguel|PatrioticMiguel]] ([[User talk:PatrioticMiguel|talk]]) 18:42, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
:The tweet you're apparently referring to shows Ellison holding a book. Not sure if serious. [[User:NorthBySouthBaranof|NorthBySouthBaranof]] ([[User talk:NorthBySouthBaranof|talk]]) 18:49, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
::He held a book. He didn't say he supported Antifa. According to the notoriously left-wing Fox News, "In a post on Twitter, Ellison said that he found the book "Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook" at a Minneapolis book shop and said it would "strike fear in the heart of @realDonaldTrump."[https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dnc-deputy-chair-keith-ellison-signals-support-for-antifa] {{re|PatrioticMiguel}} either you haven't actually seen the tweet or you are misrepresenting it. It's shown on the Fox News link. This is also interesting. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 19:39, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
== [[Londinium]] ==
Doug - mess [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Londinium&type=revision&diff=825972047&oldid=825970548 here]. I've corrected Leslie to Lacey, but the book title & link go different places. I imagine ''The Origin of Roman London'', which I'd just put in FR, is correct. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 21:50, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
:{{re|Johnbod}} thanks for sorting that. I'm not sure what happened there. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 20:13, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
== /Richard Santorum/ Discretionary Sanctions/ ==
''I don't understand how the following paragraph is an accordance with Wikipeda's policy of a Neutral point of view in regards to Richard Santorum :''
"Santorum's anti-LGBT history has brought intense criticism from LGBT rights advocates and supporters. Human Rights Campaign, a leading LGBT rights organization in the United States, published a report during Santorum's presidential campaign that vehemently berated him for his comments and statements that were interpreted as homophobic.[226] During an event Santorum held in 2012 in Illinois, two men were escorted out of Santorum's rally after they publicly kissed each other to mock Santorum for his anti-LGBT views; the crowd booed the men before their exit.[227] After Donald Trump won the 2016 election, Cornell University invited Santorum to speak in November of that year; his appearance was met with fervent protests by several students who censured him as a fascist and a bigot.[228]"
I removed this paragraph for the sake of objectivity and somehow discretionary sanctions are being imposed against me, is there any political page (besides Santorum) which states nebulous "protesters" censured previous or current political candidates on the basis of being '''facists''' and '''bigots'''? This is almost a Trumpian critique with bad sources and poor faith ("people say it's the best, the greatest!"). There's been plenty of "protesters" who have called Obama a "Socialist" or "Kenyan-born usurper" are their opinions to be highlighted too? As a matter of fact Obama had the exact same position as Santorum during the time in which he was most politically active (2012), there's no reference anywhere to Obama's anti-LGBT history. As a matter of fact the section under Santorum is replete with the words, Anti-LGBT, as if that framing where neutral, that's about as vague as saying a president is Anti-War or Pro-Peace,. Any article would seem infantile if this treatment was done to another candidate, imagine an article stating, because of Obama's Anti-peace stance he was in support of bombing Yemen and Afghanistan? I don't think it would go over as neutral, much less accurate. If a specific criticism is leveled by an individual and is properly source, that is fair game but a '''six paragraph''' review on Santorum's LGBT views seems excessive, especially while all his other ''positions only get one sentence treatment'', ''or two sentences at best''. This was a two term Senator from a very big state, a runner up in a national Republican primary, the article should at least attempt to be neutral, least we retroactively brand all political entities Anti-Black and Anti-LGBTQQIAAP for being victims of their times. Best regards, [[User:Exadajdjadjajdsz|Exadajdjadjajdsz]] ([[User talk:Exadajdjadjajdsz|talk]]) 09:27, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
:{{re|Exadajdjadjajdsz}} I'm not getting involved in this content dispute - this belongs on the article talk page. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 18:01, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Why do I have discretionary sanctions then? Someone must have arbitrated that. [[User:Exadajdjadjajdsz|Exadajdjadjajdsz]] ([[User talk:Exadajdjadjajdsz|talk]]) 20:19, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
I addressed my dispute on the talk page, yet another user deleted it, can I be involved in an "edit war" regarding a talk page and not the actual content itself? [[User:Exadajdjadjajdsz|Exadajdjadjajdsz]] ([[User talk:Exadajdjadjajdsz|talk]]) 20:37, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
== Londinium Demographics ==
I don't know why you keep changing the demographic information on the Londinium page that I provide.
I don't see how the BBC can be a more reliable source, than the publications of a historian like Tacitus, who lived during that time.
I hope you have a good explanation to maintain that position.
I wait your answer.
Best regards [[User:BryceHarper34|BryceHarper34]] ([[User talk:BryceHarper34|talk]]) 20:12, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
: {{tpw}} Hi, please read [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources#Age_matters this] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources#Primary,_secondary,_and_tertiary_sources this]. Tacitus is what we call a primary source, while Wikipedia goes with what '''reliable secondary sources''' state. Also, please note that age matters, as said in the first link i posted above. Happy editing.<b><span style="color:orange">---Wikaviani </span></b><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Wikaviani|<span style="color:blue">(talk)</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Wikaviani|<span style="color:purple">(contribs)</span>]]</b></small></sup> 20:21, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
::I was going to say that and add that a source written around 98CE isn't going to work as a source for an overview of the demographics of Londinium. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 20:31, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
I see that you are falling into a clear fallacy here.
Because this is not a scientific or medical postulate.
It's not a theory either.
On the other hand, the information provided by the BBC is really a theory, therefore, it should not be taken as an absolute truth and as a reliable source.
On the other hand, Agricola by tacitus, is a text written by someone who lived it in the first person. And for that reason it should not be taken as a "primary source", because Tacitus didn't theorize, he simply wrote what he saw.
And for this particular reason, I consider that this is a more accurate source than a theory, such as is the information from the BBC. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:BryceHarper34|BryceHarper34]] ([[User talk:BryceHarper34#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/BryceHarper34|contribs]]) 23:29, 24 November 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
: With all due respect, have you read the links provided above ? If you have not, please read 'em and refrain from aggressive behaviour like "''I see that you are falling into a clear fallacy here''" when you disagree with other editors. Also, Doug's remark about a 2000 years old writer sounds quite legit.<b><span style="color:orange">---Wikaviani </span></b><sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Wikaviani|<span style="color:blue">(talk)</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Wikaviani|<span style="color:purple">(contribs)</span>]]</b></small></sup> 23:35, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I read the links, and that is why I find the use of the information obtained by the BBC inadequate.
Since it is a theory.
Second, please avoid falling into a misunderstanding of the words, since I find no insult or aggression in the term "fallacy".
Finally, I believe that if no information provided meets the requirements, it would be best to remove the information from the demographic section in the meantime, until a more viable source is obtained.
And also, are you trying to tell me that the information obtained from a writer who lived during that time, is not a reliable source?
But the information published by a television channel is a more reliable source?
this makes no sense [[User:BryceHarper34|BryceHarper34]] ([[User talk:BryceHarper34|talk]]) 01:23, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
Revision as of 02:37, 2 December 2018
This is an archive of past discussions with User:Doug Weller. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly.
What pattern of excessive vandalism do you see that I am not that warrants a one month block on this IP address? There are 10 edits total from the IP, which is shared by multiple users, spread over a period of five months, and from what I can tell based on some of the edits, this is an IP used by at least 2,482 individual users, possibly more depending on whether more than one school uses it. PCHS-NJROTC(Messages)Have a blessed day.02:13, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
Your help needed: PiCo reverting improvements on Gospel of Mark article
Hi Doug. I saw your work on religious-themed articles and wondered if you could look at an editing constipation on the Gospel of Mark page. There are two versions going back and forth. Could you read both versions and advise everyone on the way forward? Thanks. 86.144.10.4 (talk) 21:44, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
Fascist
I am sorry about the Fascist edit and linking it to Far-left. According to my research, it showed that Hitler was a Socialist, which is known to be a Far-left view. So using that research, I was thinking that since Hitler was a fascist, I listed fascists as Far-left, but I will delete it as it is known to be false. I am just asking that you do not block me. Thanks! TruthLighter3740 (talk) 00:20, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
@TruthLighter3740:Most educated political discussions tend to assume at least this level of complexity, or even go 3-D and add "socially conservative vs socially liberal" as a front to back axisWikipedia does not use individual editor's original research, because it can be flawed, as was this case. Hitler is pretty easily classified as a fascist but not a socialist. He was a member of a party that called itself the National Socialist party, but they emphasized nationalism over everything else and persecuted actual socialists. The only reason they included socialist in the name was to mean "not completely capitalist." This is what any academic source (not political propaganda) will tell you, which can be backed up by checking any of the citations in relevant articles and reading a variety of books from university presses or academic presses on the matter.
On the chart to the right, Hitler would normally be placed way up top and about halfway between the middle and the right. Stalin would be placed way up top and all the way to the left. Bernie Sanders would be about a third or halfway to the left (from the middle) and pretty much in the middle when determining up or down. Most Libertarian candidates would be about a third or halfway both down and to the right. Hardcore anarchists would be in the middle of the bottom.
The thinking that would allow one to lump fascists and socialists together requires a very limited and flawed understanding of politics, one that is entirely "us vs them," lumping together anything that doesn't agree with one's own views. This is dangerous, as both fascists and communists have used this kind of rhetoric in a "divide and conquer" manner and terrorists (whatever their ideology) use it to radicalize recruits. I am not saying you're any of those things, but maybe you need to adjust your political news diet, avoiding anything that focuses more on strong emotions (including fear, anger, and pride) rather than cold facts, and aiming instead for ideas that require reading more than 280 characters to understand. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:15, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
Plenty of Wikidata 6th birthday events happen all around the world. You can check the Commons category and the hashtag #WikidataBirthday on social networks.
Hi Doug, thanks for the note, I’m not sure I’ve suggested that an editor is vandalizing. I know that it happens, and I think that people should probably say something. I also think that we all should be careful of seeming or appearing to do so, and according to the article that you mentioned we can even do it in good faith. It’s difficult to tell when something is intentional or not, so I try say only that it’s “possible” which, I think it’s fair to say, isn’t suggesting that it’s true, only that it’s possible. Thanks again for your concern. Madisonesque (talk) 01:18, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
I took a look at your own edit history to see if you yourself point out any “possible vandalism”, as I did, and to see if you then take your own advice and follow that up with an apology, and I found that you often suggest that people are vandalizing, but you rarely suggest people are “possibly vandalizing”. In one instance you suggested that someone was either using “bad grammar or vandalizing”. I suppose I could assume good faith that you took your own advice and apologized for that one. Except that I’m not sure it’s a good policy — because, first of all it seems tacky to try to shame a fellow editor when it may not be warranted, and also because vandalism is a problem, and it’s sometimes good for people like you and me to point it out. But when you suggest that people are “vandalizing” as often as you do, I’m not sure that’s ever assuming “good faith”, in fact I don’t think it is. That’s why I say “possible vandalism”, which is better, especially if you’re not sure something is “bad grammar” or “vandalism” — just to be on the safe side. All in all I think you're doing a good job and making a good contribution to Wikipedia. All the best. Madisonesque (talk) 13:36, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Edits on the Answers in Genesis Page
Doug, thank you for sending me the relevant editing guides after reverting my changes to the Answers in Genesis page. As you can tell, I have rarely changed content and am rather new to the process. The changes were designed to moderate but not entirely eliminate a bias that leaks through the wording and content on the AIG page.
I will provide answers next time I edit.
Thank you again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.36.27.241 (talk) 21:07, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Partial blocks is now available for testing on the Test Wikipedia. The new functionality allows you to block users from editing specific pages. Bugs may exist and can be reported on the local talk page or on Meta. A discussion regarding deployment to English Wikipedia will be started by community liaisons sometime in the near future.
A user script is now available to quickly review unblock requests.
The 2019 Community Wishlist Survey is now accepting new proposals until November 11, 2018. The results of this survey will determine what software the Wikimedia Foundation's Community Tech team will work on next year. Voting on the proposals will take place from November 16 to November 30, 2018. Specifically, there is a proposal category for admins and stewards that may be of interest.
Arbitration
Eligible editors will be invited to nominate themselves as candidates in the 2018 Arbitration Committee Elections starting on November 4 until November 13. Voting will begin on November 19 and last until December 2.
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Ah, yeah. Another sock IP of sockmaster Roman Sakhan.[12] He's obsessed with "Baloch" content, and edits from Turkmenistan.[13] Compare with his other sock IPs, who also geolocate to Turkmenistan, and who have also called me "Nazi" [14]. - LouisAragon (talk) 09:34, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
A Genesis History
I was just wondering why you removed my edit of "A Genesis History" due to the fact of my edit not being neutral. I think that it was more neutral the way I put it because of the fact that neither creation science or evolution has been completely proven. Creation science comes down to believing that someone or something created the Universe. Evolution is theory's based on what some scientists have come up with based on their research. There is no proof of Creation nor is their proof of Evolution. It's just that more people view Evolution as true than Creation. So how is saying that Evolution and the Big Bang are established scientific fact neutral? Thank you. Zynergen (talk) 23:24, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
The idea that God created the world does not contradict evolution -- see Theistic Evolution, which is what the majority of Christians outside of America (as well as a significant number of educated Christians in America) hold to.
Sorry , I had realized my fault. Thanks for the correction. And I want to talk you do you have WhatsApp ? then send the number on my talk page SHUBHAM PRAMANIK (talk) 07:10, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
The Alt-right page
Hi. I would like to inform you that I have stopped "edit warring" on this page, and have taken my argument to the talk page. Why are you threatening me with sanctions? I haven't changed my edits back on this page since your "warning" you sent me. Maybe you should have a word with the people who undid my edits for absolutely no logical reason? Oh no, that would be too fair.
Transcendent28 (talk) 12:39, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
(talk page stalker)@Transcendent28: The discretionary alert is not a warning; it states clearly that, It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date. Although, the edit-warning notice above does. But, with (hopeful) the cessation of edit-warring, the DS notice is just a reminder. ——SerialNumber54129
@Transcendent28: Generally when one editor keeps reverting several other editors, that is a hint that the serial reverter is on a mission to impose their own point of view against consensus. Fairness to the encyclopedia demands that the one making the same edit over and over again be the focus of warnings. Please reconsider your approach to editing the encyclopedia to take into account the necessity for consensus; this appears to be a continuing problem for you. Thank you for taking your concerns to the talkpage, as you should do after no more than one or two reverts. Acroterion(talk)12:53, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
You reverted my last change with comments that the links I shared do not discuss the party. But neither do the pre-existing sources cited as support for categorizing of the party as "far-right". I searched the links. You can do a word search for the text "party", and see what is said in each of the occurrences and none of them say anything about why the Social Liberal Party of Brazil is a far right party.
I consider this a serious case where the subjective political ideology of the editors is being entered into encyclopedia entry. The citations are news articles, which are good enough to say "event x happened" or that "according to person / source x, so and so is the case", but not to state in wikipedia voice that the party is a far-right party. I checked the policy of wikipedia and it says the same thing
"Usually, articles will contain information about the significant opinions that have been expressed about their subjects. However, these opinions should not be stated in Wikipedia's voice. Rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources, or where justified, described as widespread views, etc. For example, an article should not state that "genocide is an evil action", but it may state that "genocide has been described by John X as the epitome of human evil."" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view
I would like to remove these other sources and the categorization of "far-right" as well please. Until there is a proper discussion about why the party is being called far right, it is not fair to stamp the party with this kind of label. Especially one which has just won a democratic election in Brazil. This would be like calling the entire country of Brazil as a far right country.
If I have missed where the other cited links talk about the party being far-right please let me know so that I can correct my mistake.
I agree that you have a logic in your argument that mentioning of Obama might seem irrelevant here. I made that citation to show that Farakkhan is a big deal.
But I disagree that actions by Farrakhan is not relevant to the page of nation of islam. As you can see, in the page of nation of islam, Farrakhan is listed as one of the leaders of the movement. It should be very much relevant what the leader of the movement is saying and doing.
I would like to remove the mention of Obama and put back the rest of the comments which I had made, because I think that Farrakhan, by virtue of holding a very important tie to the organization, is relevant to this page. Otherwise, ultimately everything that happens, has to be done by humans. The organization itself cannot make any statement except though some of its own members.
Hello Mr Doug. I hope you are doing well. I have reported some user who has attacked and harassed me. However, I feel that the users who are discussing me there are very biased, I might be wrong. You can check it [15] and your input there (even if it is against me) will be highly appreciated. RegardsRyanoo (talk) 09:05, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi. I'm writing here to reduce clutter. In your comment here, you say you can't "go back" to 1RR because 1RR is already the rule. But that's not the point.
The current situation is "1RR + this convoluted rule". If you remove the convoluted part, you'll be left with plain 1RR. That's what I asked for. You can certainly do this. Whether you think it's wise is a different question, but you certainly have the capability to do it. Kingsindian♝♚04:14, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
@Onhigan: I'd say you were impatient, but I replied on your talk page within minutes of your post. Please respond there. You can ping me with {{ping|Doug Weller}} Doug Wellertalk13:28, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
I confess to be not happy with your move from Sheba to Kingdom of Sheba. Look at templates such as Template:Book of Joel: all short names. IF you believe in the move, please clean up after it: in the article, and mimimum in templates which link, because they don't work for redirects. I did the three templates for you, but believe the best action would be to revert the move, and the 3 changes in templates, for consistency with other biblical places. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:52, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: ok, I'll revert, but it isn't just a biblical place and I suspect the other editor will do a move. I was going to fix the article but somehow got distracted, too much multi-tasking! Doug Wellertalk18:10, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
No problem, I know multi-tasking, got reminded today that I left an article unfinished that is in the queue for DYK tomorrow (done), and didn't supply promised references for a discography (not done yet) ;) - How about two articles for Sheba, - the biblical and the other? But again, I suggested two articles for Luther's hymn and its translation, and was reverted twice (once last year), and accused of "deliberate misleading" (see talk). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:18, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: I've reverted the templates and your edit to Sheba so those are fixed now I hope. Maybe you could comment on the article's talk page? I'm going to be too busy for a few days I think answering questions to do anything more. I've given in to requests above and via email. I've already been told I'm crazy for doing it again. :-) I've got to go reheat my dinner now! Doug Wellertalk18:23, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
I'm sure 4 years feels like far too many. But it would be great to see you run again even so. No doubt there will be the usual e-bay-style flurry in the closing minutes of the nom period. Johnbod (talk) 20:14, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, I can see why longer than four years may seem too long. Your workload seems to have eased off of late, though. I'm not sure that there are enough editors looking to run, which was part of what prompted my question...there's only three candidates, and 1 admin, running as I write this. Vanamonde (talk) 20:24, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi Doug, I would really like to see you run again. You're an excellent Arb, and reliable and sensible. We need good candidates; currently there are only three people running to fill six seats, and two of those three are not even administrators. Please continue to be of service this way, if you are able to. Softlavender (talk) 10:36, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
(+1) Prolific contributions to main-space and one of the most sensible folks of the outgoing lot; I do hope to see you back:-)∯WBGconverse15:10, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Although I'm still listening, I'm still loathe to run. Even when ArbCom is quiet, I still find even just keeping up with my watchlist time-consuming. And our email load seems to have risen considerably. Hopefully some of the other outgoing Arbs will run again. Doug Wellertalk15:25, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi, Doug, there's a user that has been persistently vandalising the Aesop page since the start of the month, despite warnings. It's a new user, probably some childish schoolboy, who might need a short block to bring him to his senses. Sweetpool50 (talk) 11:59, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
who are you and why is this message sent to my IP?
Using talk pages to rant about a religion can get you blocked
Doug Weller talk 09:52, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
I have a floating IP so I guess you are sending this to someone else?
Perhaps this is not a good method for communicating with users?
Maybe they should be signed in to comment?
Regardless, the person you were addressing will have got a new IP when they reset their device, like I did today, and then I saw that message! Which means they didn't see it!
I used
Studies In The Weekly Parashah Volume 1 - Bereshit BEREISHIS BY Y. NACHSHONI
Which I believe is a credible source. Why do you feel this is not credible or did you have another reason for deleting my contribution? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mage67usa (talk • contribs) 08:45, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi Doug, sorry to bother you, more than month ago about the situation in the Saudi page with Oxfordlaw, you asked me to open a RfC to see the result. I did, and more people supported one section over different sections for the pre-Islamic period of Saudi Arabia[18]. When I changed the article to accommodate the result, Oxfordlaw reverted me by saying that this version was in place for much longer and gained much support. However, in reality 1) the pinged users preferred the "one section" over every kingdom/state having its separate sections[19], [20] 2) the 3O discouraged multiple sections "There probably shouldn't be separate sections for Lihyan, Nabataean, Dilmun, Thamud and Kindah, etc." 3) the RfC result, was that, more people preferred one section over multiple sections.
I have done really everything to gain consensus, from pinging users to asking for 3O and opening a DRN (which he failed to participate in) to requesting comments. It is worth noting that the said user was recently banned in Saudi Arabia article for edit warring over Khashoggi incident. Nabataeus (talk) 07:27, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
Could you take a look into it? The problem is getting tedious with a user determined to stick to his version despite all odds, when it doesn't need to be. Nabataeus (talk) 22:50, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
BobTarver — Preceding unsigned comment added by BobTarver (talk • contribs) 11:04, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
Because it added nothing to the article and didn't support the claim. It was just a calendar. Editor2020 (talk) 15:47, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, I should have put more in, as you can see, the 9th Day of Av or Tisha B'Av is 4 August 70 CE. Please see the Wikipedia article "Judea_(Roman_province)" in the right side of the article "Historical Era", and the Hebrew/Roman Calendar which details the Holidays at in end of the page.
How about this:
"According to tradition, on 4 August 70 CE[1][2][3], which would be the 9th Day of Av (Tisha B'Av in the Jewish Calendar), the Second Temple was destroyed by the Romans."
Bob Tarver (talk) 09:54, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) we never use our articles as sources. See WP:VERIFY and WP:RS. Your other sources are no better. Where is this tradition coming from? If it's authentic there will be scholarly sources discussing it. And hopefully explaining the difference in dates. Doug Weller talk 11:38, 16 November 2018 (UTC) @BobTarver: Doug Weller talk 11:39, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
I am found a source. [1] said "According to Josephus, a Roman soldier took a torch and threw it against the beautiful tapestries that Herod had made for the Temple and that hung along its walls. When they caught fire the Romans attempted to put it out, but there was not sufficient water. Somehow the fire was so intense that even the stone took hold and the building collapsed. The Talmud says that it burned not only on the late afternoon of the ninth of Av, but the entire day of the tenth.[1]" Also, the reference [1] said "[1] In fact, there is an opinion in the Talmud that the day of destruction should be the tenth of Av instead of the ninth because the building was actually destroyed on the tenth. Nevertheless, since it started on the ninth, and because of the connection to the destruction of the First Temple, the ninth remained the memorial day for the destruction of both Temples." Now, using the Hebrew/Roman Calendar [2], the 9th Day of Av would be on 4 August and the 10th Day of Av would be on 5 August 70 CE. Also, Josephus (Judean War, 6.4.5 249-253) wrote:
"So Titus retired into the tower of Antonia, and resolved to storm the Temple the next day, early in the morning, with his whole army, and to encamp round about the Holy House; but, as for that House, God had for certain long ago doomed it to the fire; and now that fatal day was come, according to the revolution of the ages: it was the tenth day of the month Lous, [Av,] upon which it was formerly burnt by the king of Babylon; although these flames took their rise from the Jews themselves, and were occasioned by them; for upon Titus's retiring, the seditious lay still for a little while, and then attacked the Romans again, when those that guarded the Holy House fought with those that quenched the fire that was burning in the inner court of the Temple; but these Romans put the Jews to flight, and proceeded as far as the Holy House itself.
At which time one of the soldiers, without staying for any orders, and without any concern or dread upon him at so great an undertaking, and being hurried on by a certain divine fury, snatched somewhat out of the materials that were on fire, and being lifted up by another soldier, he set fire to a golden window, through which there was a passage to the rooms that were round about the Holy House, on the north side of it. As the flames went upward the Jews made a great clamour, such as so mighty an affliction required, and ran together to prevent it; and now they spared not their lives any longer, nor suffered anything to restrain their force, since that Holy House was perishing, for whose sake it was that they kept such a guard upon it."
Hello!
Could you, at least,correct the source of Great Power on Brazil’s article. It’s still wrong. The correct source is in my last edition. As you can ser there, the source is double on great and middle power right now.
Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by B777-300ER (talk • contribs) 17:31, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
Genetic percentages IP-hopper
This is presumably the same IP hopper you and I reverted a few times earlier today. The original target pages have been protected, so it looks like they're now trying to insert this stuff into related articles. Is there anything clever that can be done to identify the IPs and range-block them, or do we just have to play what-a-mole? GirthSummit (blether)18:16, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
@Girth Summit: ask at Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested, they seem to use the same text. This range[21] has a lot of very bad edits but also some good ones, not sure it would be right to block it. I'm about to go watch tv with my wife so don't have time to make the edit filter request. Need to try and get action on my other request there! Doug Wellertalk19:30, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: thanks for the suggestion - I've never investigated Edit filters before. It looks like they've stopped for now, I've searched for a few of the terms that they were using and can't see that they've added anything since I last reverted them, but if they start up again I'll ask for a filter. Cheers GirthSummit (blether)12:04, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
Question
Doug, shalom. There is currently a discussion on the 1RR rule in Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment, while the initial request for amendment was entered under a case affecting Palestine-Israel articles arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t). As you know, I am still under a pending topic ban relating to articles involving the Arab-Israeli conflict. Does this mean that I cannot submit a suggestion for better improvement of the 1RR rule currently under discussion, since the rule also affects other non-related Arab-Israeli issues, but of edits and reverts in general? Am I permitted to respond there?Davidbena (talk) 10:32, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
Okay, that's fine. I trust the wisdom of the panel of contributors who have, each, expressed his opinion there about the 1RR rule. My opinion would be of little weight and bearing anyway.Davidbena (talk) 20:00, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
Hey
Can you check my rollback request ? I found that you're available now and i really need rollback right to fight against vandalism with huggle. TheRedBox (Talk)20:03, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
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Doug, in this discussion User:EdJohnston mentioned the possibility of someone stepping forward and taking ownership of the discretionary sanctions placed by Coffee. The more I think about it the more I think that's a good idea. (It's a pain to run back to the noticeboard and get a new consensus every time one wants to change something.) Might that be something you'd be willing to take on? I did a search for edit notices that he created and it looks like there are about 140 (my list here contains some redlinks). I've thought about asking to take them over myself but I'd rather not for a couple of reasons. ~Awilley (talk)03:10, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Doug could certainly handle this assignment. But I wonder if he would have to recuse on some Arbcom votes if he became the sanction owner. (The owner might need to take responsibility for lifting or modifying some of the sanctions, since people would make requests to him for changes). As an alternative, User:Awilley could ask some admin to take on the assignment who has been active enough at AE to understand the nuances of the various bans. And of course Awilley would be a logical candidate to be the sanction owner, except he doesn't want to :-). EdJohnston (talk) 04:14, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Oops, I forgot that Doug's term on the committee is expiring the end of this year and he is not running again, so he could certainly take this on if he wants to. EdJohnston (talk) 04:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
This is regarding "No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without: the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below)." So Awilley wants someone to take over the restrictions so that changes can be done with their approval instead of appealing to AE/AN every time. Galobtter (pingó mió) 13:05, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Correct, there would be zero obligation to actually enforce any of the sanctions, it just gives you the authority to modify or remove them without needing to get prior consensus. ~Awilley (talk) 13:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC) As for me taking over the sanctions, I've placed discretionary sanctions on exactly one article, and that was after being asked multiple times to do it. I don't want that count to increase from 1 to 140 overnight. Besides I strongly disagreed and even clashed a bit with Coffee before his retirement over the way he was enforcing sanctions, and I'd feel a bit weird becoming his "successor". Whoever takes over the sanctions I will probably be approaching them and asking them to remove the sanctions from some articles that aren't experiencing disruption. But that's something where I'd feel safer having to convince someone else in addition to myself. The same goes with my efforts to find an alternative to consensus-required. ~Awilley (talk)13:27, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
@Awilley, EdJohnston, and Galobtter: Actually I think it's the bit under the section "Appeals from sanctioned editors", which says "Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below)".... I think the bit you quoted is about sanctions on editors, given that the 2nd sentence is the quote I've just given specifically mentions requests for modification of page restrictions. A bit that I think needs to go or be referred to in the section on placing page restrictions. A bit confusing. In any case, I think we'll have to take some formal action for someone to take them over and I'm looking into that. Doug Wellertalk13:22, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Right, we'd need to make a request and get a consensus of administrators at AE, AN, or ARCA, giving you ownership of all sanctions placed by Coffee. There may be some users still around who have indefinite editor-level sanctions placed by Coffee, and you'd then be on the hook if they decide to appeal directly to you, but I think the bulk of it would be the page restrictions. ~Awilley (talk)13:34, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I redirected the Kurdish genocide dab page to the primary topic, Anfal, but I was surprised when I saw your name in the editing history (I did this as what seemed like obvious cleanup, but now I'm worried there may be some past discussions I wasn't aware of). The content didn't seem appropriate for a dab page. I checked Max Planck which is my go to source for authoritative international law stuff and the only thing that came up was the Iraqi Special Tribunal. In any case, I'm prepared for a discussion if it's needed, as I'm currently working on improving coverage of ICTR and ICTY cases so I have a bunch of sources already open in front of me. Seraphim System(talk)03:47, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
Mr Weller, as you're so quick to advise I am wrong about Mr Ellison because I don't have four, independent, and seperate sources for the claim: I suggest you look to KEITH ELLISON VERIFIED DIRECT TWITTER ACCOUNT on January 3rd of 2018 and see for yourself in his own words and photographic evidence of his own self portrait.
Perhaps before you threaten people or censor them, you should look outside your own echo chamber bubble. PatrioticMiguel (talk) 18:42, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
He held a book. He didn't say he supported Antifa. According to the notoriously left-wing Fox News, "In a post on Twitter, Ellison said that he found the book "Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook" at a Minneapolis book shop and said it would "strike fear in the heart of @realDonaldTrump."[22]@PatrioticMiguel: either you haven't actually seen the tweet or you are misrepresenting it. It's shown on the Fox News link. This is also interesting. Doug Wellertalk19:39, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Doug - mess here. I've corrected Leslie to Lacey, but the book title & link go different places. I imagine The Origin of Roman London, which I'd just put in FR, is correct. Johnbod (talk) 21:50, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
I don't understand how the following paragraph is an accordance with Wikipeda's policy of a Neutral point of view in regards to Richard Santorum :
"Santorum's anti-LGBT history has brought intense criticism from LGBT rights advocates and supporters. Human Rights Campaign, a leading LGBT rights organization in the United States, published a report during Santorum's presidential campaign that vehemently berated him for his comments and statements that were interpreted as homophobic.[226] During an event Santorum held in 2012 in Illinois, two men were escorted out of Santorum's rally after they publicly kissed each other to mock Santorum for his anti-LGBT views; the crowd booed the men before their exit.[227] After Donald Trump won the 2016 election, Cornell University invited Santorum to speak in November of that year; his appearance was met with fervent protests by several students who censured him as a fascist and a bigot.[228]"
I removed this paragraph for the sake of objectivity and somehow discretionary sanctions are being imposed against me, is there any political page (besides Santorum) which states nebulous "protesters" censured previous or current political candidates on the basis of being facists and bigots? This is almost a Trumpian critique with bad sources and poor faith ("people say it's the best, the greatest!"). There's been plenty of "protesters" who have called Obama a "Socialist" or "Kenyan-born usurper" are their opinions to be highlighted too? As a matter of fact Obama had the exact same position as Santorum during the time in which he was most politically active (2012), there's no reference anywhere to Obama's anti-LGBT history. As a matter of fact the section under Santorum is replete with the words, Anti-LGBT, as if that framing where neutral, that's about as vague as saying a president is Anti-War or Pro-Peace,. Any article would seem infantile if this treatment was done to another candidate, imagine an article stating, because of Obama's Anti-peace stance he was in support of bombing Yemen and Afghanistan? I don't think it would go over as neutral, much less accurate. If a specific criticism is leveled by an individual and is properly source, that is fair game but a six paragraph review on Santorum's LGBT views seems excessive, especially while all his other positions only get one sentence treatment, or two sentences at best. This was a two term Senator from a very big state, a runner up in a national Republican primary, the article should at least attempt to be neutral, least we retroactively brand all political entities Anti-Black and Anti-LGBTQQIAAP for being victims of their times. Best regards, Exadajdjadjajdsz (talk) 09:27, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
I addressed my dispute on the talk page, yet another user deleted it, can I be involved in an "edit war" regarding a talk page and not the actual content itself? Exadajdjadjajdsz (talk) 20:37, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Londinium Demographics
I don't know why you keep changing the demographic information on the Londinium page that I provide.
I don't see how the BBC can be a more reliable source, than the publications of a historian like Tacitus, who lived during that time.
I hope you have a good explanation to maintain that position.
I wait your answer.
Best regards BryceHarper34 (talk) 20:12, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
(talk page watcher) Hi, please read this and this. Tacitus is what we call a primary source, while Wikipedia goes with what reliable secondary sources state. Also, please note that age matters, as said in the first link i posted above. Happy editing.---Wikaviani (talk)(contribs)20:21, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
I was going to say that and add that a source written around 98CE isn't going to work as a source for an overview of the demographics of Londinium. Doug Wellertalk20:31, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
I see that you are falling into a clear fallacy here.
Because this is not a scientific or medical postulate.
It's not a theory either.
On the other hand, the information provided by the BBC is really a theory, therefore, it should not be taken as an absolute truth and as a reliable source.
On the other hand, Agricola by tacitus, is a text written by someone who lived it in the first person. And for that reason it should not be taken as a "primary source", because Tacitus didn't theorize, he simply wrote what he saw.
And for this particular reason, I consider that this is a more accurate source than a theory, such as is the information from the BBC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BryceHarper34 (talk • contribs) 23:29, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
With all due respect, have you read the links provided above ? If you have not, please read 'em and refrain from aggressive behaviour like "I see that you are falling into a clear fallacy here" when you disagree with other editors. Also, Doug's remark about a 2000 years old writer sounds quite legit.---Wikaviani (talk)(contribs)23:35, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I read the links, and that is why I find the use of the information obtained by the BBC inadequate.
Since it is a theory.
Second, please avoid falling into a misunderstanding of the words, since I find no insult or aggression in the term "fallacy".
Finally, I believe that if no information provided meets the requirements, it would be best to remove the information from the demographic section in the meantime, until a more viable source is obtained.
And also, are you trying to tell me that the information obtained from a writer who lived during that time, is not a reliable source?
But the information published by a television channel is a more reliable source?
this makes no sense BryceHarper34 (talk) 01:23, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
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