Talk:Bjelovar-Križevci County

Is it Körös or Kőrös? --Joy [shallot]

Requested move

Križevci (former county) → Belovár-Kőrös – previous moves of Hungarian counties to current names were not discussed. Please discuss below. -  AjaxSmack  17:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Survey

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• Neutral This is complicated. On one side, Panonian states that the name should be in Croatian for the county was located in Croatia (Slavonia) and Hungarian wasn't even the official language of the Kingdom of Hungary. On the other side, the Hungarian name seems to appear on all maps of the Kingdom of Hungary that I have seen so far, and its usage is probably more widespread. I'm totally divided about this one. --Húsönd 01:19, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
• Neutral too. For the sake of consistency it would be nice to have all county names in Hungarian, but this one has a very significal Croatian majority, and it would be only fair to acknowledge this. BTW this article says "the autonomous region Croatia-Slavonia within the Kingdom of Hungary", while the Kingdom of Hungary article says the Kingdom of Croatia was independent from the KoH and had only a personal union with it. – Alensha  ^talk 15:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

• Neutral - for historic Croatian counties I think Croatian names are OK. But why not Bjelovar-Križevci? Križevci is the old Kőrös county before it was combined with Belovar. Zello 16:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I wrote it because name Križevci was used in my historical atlas. :) But, if somebody think that Bjelovar-Križevci is better name, I will not object. PANONIAN (talk) 20:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

The smaller Kőrös/Križevci county existed since the Middle Ages. Belovar was part of the Military Frontier until 1868. After that was dissolved a new county was established but after a few years they combined the two under the name Belovár-Kőrös or Bjelovar-Križevci. So I vote for the later name. Zello 20:49, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Fine, we can rename article to Bjelovar-Križevci later, no problem. PANONIAN (talk) 21:10, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

• I will oppose my own RM if it will get the list of counties off the WP:RM page. Panonian made the case -- move this one to Bjelovar-Križevci and leave the others where they are. -  AjaxSmack  06:56, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

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Previous moves of Kingdom of Hungary counties to current names were not discussed. (These also include Modruš-Rijeka, Požega (former county), Syrmia (former county), Varaždin (former county), Virovitica (former county), Zagreb (former county).) Also, some of the new names were given to some Hungarian counties that appear to be bordering on ahistorical or original research. (e.g., Syrmia or Križevci). Cf. other Hungarian counties in non-Hungarian speaking areas, e.g Torontál, Szeben. -  AjaxSmack  17:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The move of the names was discussed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Administrative_divisions_of_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary#Naming_issues Since nobody opposed my proposal for move, I moved these names. These counties were part of the autonomous region Croatia-Slavonia where Croatian was official language, thus names of the counties are written in Croatian. PANONIAN (talk) 18:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I bet the Latin was also the official language of Croatia :))) Zello 16:15, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it was Latin at first, but I also think that later it was Croatian. PANONIAN (talk) 20:40, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

See for example this map: http://terkepek.adatbank.transindex.ro/kepek/netre/14.gif It is from Hungarian web site, but names of the Croatian-Slavonian counties are written in Croatian. PANONIAN (talk) 20:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't have any problem with the Croatian names for the Kingdom of Croatia, I only gave a hint to that Latin argument always used in the case of the KoH... :)Zello 20:52, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, the Latin argument is used when somebody want to use Hungarian names for the places that were part of KOH in the past and today are not part of Hungary. Here we have quite opposite example - a counties that were part of Croatia in the past and are part of Croatia today. :) PANONIAN (talk) 21:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

And by the way, Zello, I used Latin name in the case of Syrmia. :))) PANONIAN (talk) 21:06, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Only because you were in war with the Croats :) Zello 21:19, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

No, but because for most of the history during which this county existed, the Latin was official language of the country and because this is also English name. :) And of course, it were Croats that insisted that article about Syrmia region on Wikipedia is named in Latin/English instead in Serbian (no matter that most of the region is in Serbia), thus my thought was that they will accept Latin/English name for the county article too. PANONIAN (talk) 22:10, 6 September 2006 (UTC)