User talk:HistoryofIran

Userpage	Talk page	Awards	Articles	Sources

Sources

Sent you some pages of Floor, Willem (2006) The Persian Gulf: A Political and Economic History of Five Port Cities, 1500-1730. Thought you might be interested. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:33, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Sent you another mail. - LouisAragon (talk) 13:26, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Replied. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:25, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Ditto. - LouisAragon (talk) 19:23, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Ditto back lel. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:15, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

- Was just checking some stuff. I'm not really sure how we should define the criteria for an individual in order to be added to Category:Safavid generals. All these "beglarbegs" for example, were military commanders as well, apart from being known as "governor". Should we just add all of them to the category in question as a matter of habit? Will be one very large category in that case. I know that there are still alooot of categories to be made for all the individuals, but I believe this is just one of those minor things that we should get cleared up early on, haha.

- I've got another source that I'd really like to send to you, but the file is too large unfortunately ("On the Ethno-Social Background of Four Gholām Families from Georgia in Safavid Iran". Studia Iranica (32)"). - LouisAragon (talk) 00:00, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon:

- Hmm, not sure. Perhaps we should start creating hakem, beglarbegi. etc categories? Do what you think is best.

- Haha that's fine - do you have any sources about the Lurs/Laks/Bakhtiaris/Kurds (and/or their families, such as the Zangana, Zand etc) during the Safavid/Afsharid/Zand period? --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:58, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Yeah thats a good one. We probably should. Will start creating them in the near future. - LouisAragon (talk) 22:07, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, I might have some specific stuff about the Zangana and Zands during the Safavid period. Not entirely sure though. Will let you know! - LouisAragon (talk) 22:07, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Btw, didn't Karim Khan force numerous Khanates into submission? Referring to the changes you made to the Zand dynasty map. - LouisAragon (talk) 17:05, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Apparently not, according to the Cambridge History of Iran. The Khanates of Azerbaijan were more or less independent, whilst only nominally under the suzerainty of the Zands. Mazandaran and Astarabad was barely under Zand rule as well. The Caucasian Khanates seem to have been independent/under Georgian rule. But I am ofc all ears if you have a source(s) that dispute that claim. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:08, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Some material;

• "Born in 1730, he was the son of Panāh Khan of the Javānšīr tribe, which lived in the plains of Qarābāḡ (Bāmdād, I, p. 10). Nāder Shah Afšār had forced the tribe and its khans to submit to him and to accompany him to Khorasan. After Nāder’s death, Panāh Khan returned to Qarābāḡ and managed to penetrate the eastern sector of the Armenian enclave of mountainous Qarābāḡ (Qarābāḡī, pp. 52-59). In the second half of the century, Ebrāhīm Khan built a strong fortress in Šūšī/Šūša which was referred to, during his lifetime, as Panāhābād (idem, p. 72). When Karīm Khan Zand took control of much of Persia, he forced Panāh Khan to come to Shiraz, where he died as a hostage. " -- EBRĀHĪM ḴALĪL KHAN JAVĀNŠĪR, Enc. Iranica Vol. VIII, Fasc. 1, pp. 71-73
• "By 1762 another ruler and dynasty, Karim Khan Zand (1750-1779), took control of most of Iran and was recognzied as their suzerain by the khans of eastern Armenia [that is, the khans of Karabakh and Yerevan]. His seat of power was in southern Iran, however, and Transcaucasia was left to Ibrahim Khan of Karabagh and King Erekle II (1762-1798) of eastern Georgia (...) -- Bournoutian, Georga (2002). A Concise History of the Armenian People: (from Ancient Times to the Present). (ed. 2). Mazda Pub. ISBN 978-1568591414
• "(...) "Heraclius II, after his occupation of Erivan in 1749 and defeat of his former ally Azad in 1751-2, could afford largely to ignore the changing situation south of the Aras. After it became obvious that Mashhad (a minor Afsharid remnant at that time) was no longer the seat of the government, and probably about the time of the Zand army's progress through Azarbaijan (1762-1763), Heraclius tendered his submission to the Zand Vakil and received his diploma as Vali of Gurjistan - the traditional Safavid office, by this time an empty honorific." -- - Fisher et al. (1991). The Cambridge History of Iran Vol. 7. page 96 Cambridge University Press, 10 okt. 1991 ISBN 978-0521200950

... In other words; definetely nominal suzerainty (de jure), and recognized as such. De facto, probably not that much. I can search for more later. - LouisAragon (talk) 19:55, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: I've reverted the map. Btw, I guess I should expand the northern borders of the map further then? --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:17, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

-Yeah we need to pinpoint that down in the near future.

-PS1, I wonder whether this dude is the father of Fath-Ali Khan Daghestani... Would be surely interesting to find out. PS2; I just made a start with this article. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:44, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon:

-Yeah that's interesting, he possibly could have been his father indeed.

-Awesome, that's one more important Safavid article created. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:46, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Btw, do you think we should create Category:17th-century Safavid people etc like the Category:17th-century Ottoman people? There are quite a lot of articles of non-Iranian people in Safavid Iran. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:05, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, we need those categories 100%. - LouisAragon (talk) 17:53, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Returning to our talk about the Zand map; it should thus additionally include almost all of Armenia (Khanate of Yerevan), Nakhchivan (Khanate of Nakhchivan), Karabagh (Karabagh Khanate). Not sure what to do with eastern Georgia/Kartli-Kakheti, and the other khanates though. For example, as demonstrated above, Erekle II was Karim Khans subject on paper, but de facto, the former basically had full autonomy (Cambridge History of Iran). Even moreso than the other khanates. Perhaps shading that area with a different colour (e.g. "the area in light-blue shows the Kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti, which was de jure a Zand territory, but de facto autonomous"). I believe all other khanates that I did not mention were nominal vassals of Karim Khan as well (e.g. Quba, Darband, etc.) but that they were practically independent in reality. For example, check these notes (pp. 44-45) -> [1] - LouisAragon (talk) 17:53, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

I believe Matthee et al. sums it up, additionally, pretty well here; "Although Karim Khan was recognized as overlord over most of Iran after 1763, with large parts independent or semi-autonomous (...) none of these local khans ever placed his own name on his coins" (p. 170, Matthee et al. (2013). The Monetary History of Iran: From the Safavids to the Qajars) - LouisAragon (talk) 17:53, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Btw, if you have some spare time in the near future, would you be able to make a start with Safavid Georgia? I'll be able to pick it up afterwards. - LouisAragon (talk) 17:55, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon:

-I've made some changes to map, what do you think?

-Honestly, I have no idea how to create that article, since from what I've understood it seems that there were more than one Georgian kingdom under Safavid suzerainty, which I barely have any knowledge about. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:23, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for the belated response mate;
- The remaining part of Armenia should be shaded dark blue as well I believe.
- Its alright. I thought you might have some additional info about the provinces, territories that I wouldn't have access to. Anyhow, I just made a brief start myself (Safavid Georgia). Its not complete/perfect obviously, but at least its something. What do you think?
- One more thing about "maps". I just had a look at the Qajar dynasty map as well. Basically, all of Kartli and Kakheti should be added to it, not just Tiflis/lower Kartli. Would you perhaps be able to adjust that later?
- I'll be able to send you some more sources later today/tomorrow. I'll notify you ofc when its done. ;-) - LouisAragon (talk) 17:46, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon:

-Will do.

-It's awesome, great work.

-Hmm, I'll take a look at it. Not sure if I can edit a map like that with Paint. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:17, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Alrighttt. Check your mail btw, sent you some more material. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:25, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Replied. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:42, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

"Kurdish Christians" -- "In the year 338 AD, a Kurdish ruler by the name Tirdad converted to Christianity. It has been speculated that he was from the Hawraman region of Kurdistan.[4] (...) Majority of Kurds adopted Islam after the Arab conquest of the Sasanian Empire but their faith sat lightly on them, it was not until the Ottoman Turks, who, with considerable political acumen, saw the sole means by which they could attach the Kurds to themselves was through their religion, and did everything possible to promote Islam amongst them. However, there were Kurdish converts to Christianity even after the spread of Islam. In the ninth century, a Kurd named Nasr or Narseh converted to Christianity, and changed his name to Theophobos during the reign of Emperor Theophilus and was the emperor's intimate friend and commander for many years.[6]".
Lel, learning something new everyday. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:42, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Indeed, this needs to get fixed in the near future. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:37, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Mate,

• Some more stuff I found regarding the complexity surrounding "Shahverdi Sultan". -- "Arriving at Dzegvi to join the Kartlians, George's troops were attacked and annihilated, on the Easter Day on 6 April 1561, by the Safavid army under Shahverdi Sultan, a Qajar beylerbey of Karabakh, at the battle of Tsikhedidi. George himself was killed in action.[1][2]" -- I guess this must be the 2nd Shahverdi Sultan?...
  
• Also, even though we haven't really yet put our focus on it, I noticed some huge errors on this "Afsharid dynasty" map. Firstly, about the eastern border. Nader Shah occupied parts to the east of the Indus for like....3-4 months in 1739. When he left Delhi literally a few months later, he ceded everything to the east of the Indus back to the Mughals (Axworthy 2010), p. 195, 212, 216). I don't think its suitable to add that all on the map. It gives the erroneous impression, and I've already spotted some innocent users on writing this, as if they controlled North India/East of the Indus River until Nader's death in 1747.
• About the Central Asian borders, we are in a dire need of some adjustments as well. I noticed that the current map still includes the nonsensical changes made by that sockpuppet, "Artin Mehraban/History of Persia". These changes made by him need to removed as well, as the Afsharids didn't control that much of the region. Also, Iranica's description on this matter is again one of those cases where they are extremely vague and borderline incorect. Iranica uses "Iran, Central Asia and North India" to describe the maximum extent of the empire, but this is extremely weird, as it leaves the Caucasus, Armenia, Georgia, Afghanistan, a part of Pakistan, eastern Anatolia, Mesopotamia, etc. out. Hence I wouldn't use Iranica word for word verbatim in this regard.
  

Anyhow, to put things short, I think it would be really great if you could adjust it in the near future by 1) removing the changes in Central Asia made by the sock sock 2) removing everything to the east of the Indus/Kabul. By doing that we'll actually have a map that comes close to what it was at its peak, which was in 1741/1743. (sorry for the many map "requests" recently, referring to the Zand/Qajar ones of two weeks ago as well). - LouisAragon (talk) 19:53, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon:

• Dunno.
• Yeah, the Afsharid map needs some fixing. I'll get to it in this week or June. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:08, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Aight, thanksss. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:19, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Sent you a mail. - LouisAragon (talk) 23:32, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Done. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:56, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

You gonna expand some articles about Safavid architecture? Just wondering, because I saw this. - LouisAragon (talk) 01:01, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Nah, suprisingly the source has loads of information about holders of certain Safavid offices, such as the grand vizier. Perhaps I'll be able to fill out the list of missing grand viziers. HistoryofIran (talk)

Wow really? Didn't know. I once used Google Books to search for some info about Safavid offices. That book by Blake showed up alot of times. Turned out however that the ppl responsible for scanning in stuff @ Google Books, simply scanned the wrong book; the material that Google Books shows for "Stephen Blake" is actually Floor's "Safavid Government Institutions". You can see Bu Rob13's explanation here. - LouisAragon (talk) 01:08, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Well fak. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:03, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Sent you a mail. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:10, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Replied. - LouisAragon (talk) 23:42, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Should the Category:Historians of the Achaemenid Empire include the "Iranian historians" category? In a similar fashion to Category:Safavid historians, Category:Buyid historians, etc.? Just interested in your opinion. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:07, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Err, dunno. Do what you think is best. Also, forgot to answer back in mail, I'll do it in a bit. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:39, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Alright I'll just keep it the way it was then. Sure, lemme know when you have sent your email reply. Oh, another question as well, considering you're much better informed about the Sasanian era than me; should the article Vakhtang I of Iberia include these categories? Category:Vassal rulers of the Sasanian Empire, Category:Christians in the Sasanian Empire and Category:Sasanian generals? And should Mirian III of Iberia include Category:Christians in the Sasanian Empire? For consistency's sake. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:01, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Also, regarding the Zands; I notice you made this category, Category:Vassal and tributary states of the Zand dynasty. It should be added to the Karabakh Khanate, Erivan Khanate, Nakhchivan Khanate, Kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti as well. Their relation with Karim Khan was different as compared to the Qajars, the latter who established actual direct rule/hegemony over them. Also, will you add the info regarding Karim Khan's relation with the Khanates + Erekle (see sources I dropped above) later yourself? Honestly, the Karim Khan Zand article is another one of your articles very near/at GA quality. Probably the only major thing thats lacking is the stuff about him and those khanates/Erekle. Right now, you have quite a few articles "waiting" at GA quality. You should just nominate them IMHO. As far as I know, there is no actual policy that requires you to nominate one at a time. Anyways, I'm cluttering your talk page a tad too much right now, so I'll stop writing. ;)). - LouisAragon (talk) 21:23, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: I've added it on all the articles besides the Kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti, I will most likely get molested if I add it here. And yes, I expect to complete Karim Khan's article in this summer. The articles close to GA potential still need a final touch, some of them than others, which I will hopefully get to in this summer as well. Also, I will fix the issue with the Afsharid dynasty map this week. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:08, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

- Why do you think so? Being a de jure vassal still means you're a vassal, albeit on paper. Actually, it was Erekle himself who delivered Azad Khan to Karim Khan and decided to tender his own submission to him (per Perry and Cambridge History of Iran). Anyways, I just expanded the article a bit and also added the category.

- Btw let me know about those Sasanian-era cats when you have time. (see above)

- Oh, I received Floor's Safavid Government Institutions today. Lemme know which pages/info you need, and I'll send all of them to you. ;-) - LouisAragon (talk) 22:46, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon:

-Regarding the Sasanian categories, I definitely think that the articles should have those categories.

-Thanks, I'll let you know :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:50, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Sent you a mail regarding the Afsharid map. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:48, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Yo just wanted to let you know, I'm now in full possession of; Floor, Willem M. (2008). Titles and Emoluments in Safavid Iran: A Third Manual of Safavid Administration, by Mirza Naqi Nasiri.
You know where to find me :-) - LouisAragon (talk) 15:14, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Awesome, will do mate. I am taking a lil break atm since I really wanna fix my back. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:06, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Aighttt good to know. Take it easy with that back. You're gonna need it for a looong time. - LouisAragon (talk) 23:54, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Note for when you return bruv; check the convo I had with Tataryn on his talk page (in case you haven't yet). - LouisAragon (talk) 23:09, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Iraq After The Muslim Conquest

Hello HistoryofIran! You used this source to create Hazarbed years ago, but now, unfortunately, it's not available on Google Books. Do you have a PDF? I really would like to have such source, but I don't know where there is a PDF archive. Cheers!--Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 21:43, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

@Renato de carvalho ferreira: Yeah, I have quite a lot of pages of the book stored in my mail (pages 27-99 and 180-213 with info about the Hazarbed and alot more). Here's the mail I use for Wikipedia, contact me so I can send them to you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:31, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Can you help verify translations of articles from Farsi

Hello,

Would you be able to help evaluate the accuracy of translations of Wikipedia articles from Farsi to English Wikipedia?

File:Language icon.svg

This would involve evaluating a translated article on English Wikipedia by comparing it to the original Farsi article, and marking it "Pass" or "Fail" based on whether the translation faithfully represents the original. Here's the reason for this request:

There are a number of articles on English Wikipedia that were created as machine translations from different languages including Farsi , using the Content Translation tool, sometimes by users with no knowledge of the source language. The config problem that allowed this to happen has since been fixed, but this has left us with a backlog of articles whose accuracy of translation is suspect or unknown, including some articles translated from Farsi. In many cases, other editors have come forward later to copyedit and fix any English grammar or style issues, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the translation is accurate, as factual errors from the original translation may remain. To put it another way: Good English is not the same as good translation.

If you can help out, that would be great. Here's a sample of the articles that need checking:

• Islamic Revolution Document Center
• Standing in the Mist
• Homafaran allegiance
• Ciyos Guran
• Persian Gulf Forever

All you have to do, is compare the English article to the Farsi article, and mark it "Pass" or "Fail" (templates {{Pass}} and {{Fail}} may be useful). (Naturally, if you feel like fixing an inaccurate translation and then marking it "Pass", that's even better, but it isn't required.)

If you can help, please let me know. Thanks! Mathglot (talk) 05:42, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately I can't read the Persian script. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:29, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Oh. You have a {{user fa}} box on your user page, so I thought you were a native speaker. Thanks anyway! Mathglot (talk) 07:36, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Regarding the Turkic dynasties of Iran

The page says: The following is a list of dynasties, states or empires which are Turkic-speaking, of Turkic origins, or both. So you have no right to remove Afshars, Qajars, Safavids. Beshogur (talk) 19:03, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Beshogur: That doesn't change the fact that neither of those dynasties were 'Turko-Persian/Iranian states'. I am still waiting for a (academic) source(s) that supports your edits. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:28, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Ok I've restored the edit long time ago to its earlier version. Beshogur (talk) 19:34, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Beshogur: You haven't though? The dynasties are still listed there. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:35, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Help save these files?

This collection of files and this file are nominated for deletion.
It would be nice of you to leave a comment.
Thank you.
—Rye-96 (talk) 14:40, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Safavid Grand Viziers

Dear HistoryofIran, I want to thank you for editing the List of Safavid Grand Viziers. I want to inform you that in the book "Zubdat al-Tavarikh" It is mentioned that "Mortezaqoli Khan" was "Vakil-e Divan" and not the grand vizier of Tahmasp II. I also want to be familiar with your sources for the viziership of "Mirza Abdol-Karim". I saw his name in "Zubdat al-Tavarikh" as "E'demad al-Dowle" which was the title of Safavids' Grand Viziers, but in the book "Ashraf Afghan on the throne of Isfahan: narration of the Dutch witnesses" he is just considered as "Mostowfi-ye Khasse (Special state accountant). I am not familiar with "Farajollah Khan Abdollah", "Mirza Mohammad Hossein" and "Mirza Mohammad Rahim". Please, introduce me your source or sources which mention their names. About "Mirza Abdollah", I should say that he was the son of "Mirza Davud Mar'ashi (Custodian of Astan-e Quds-e Razavi)" so he must be the brother of Suleiman II of Persia. There is another figure who might be one of Tahmasp II's Grand Viziers: "Ismail Beg E'temad al-Dowle" who signed the Treaty of Saint Petersburg (1723) on the side of Safavids. Saeed Nafisi mentioned his name with the title of "E'demad al-Dowle" but did not directly called him the Grand Vizier of Tahmasp II. In "Alamara-ye Naderi" he is mentioned as "Tabin-e Vazir-e A'zam" which I do not know what means exactly. At the end I should say that "Rajab-Ali Beg" and "Rajab-Ali Khan" maybe was one person. "Zubdat al-Tavarikh" mentioned that "Rajab-Ali Beg" was "Nazer-e Boyutat" at the beginning of the reign of Tahmasp II and "Alamara-ye Naderi" mentioned "Rajab-Ali Khan E'temad al-Dowle" was the Grand Vizier of Tahmasp II which started his viziership after the Battle of Murche-Khort and died 2 months before the deposion of Tahmasp II. Best regards Shfarshid (talk) 03:03, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Hello there - the article is not yet done. The source I primarily use is this one [2]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:45, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Shfarshid (talk) 03:48, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

King of Kings of Iranians and non-Iranians

Hi, I initially intended to create an article for this title, but eventually decided to limit it to the section List_of_shahanshahs_of_the_Sasanian_Empire#Title. Please use this link instead. --Z 21:26, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Hello Z, the majority of sources use 'King of kings of Iran and non-Iran/Aniran', not 'King of Kings of Iranians and non-Iranians' (which is an incorrect translitteration). --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:54, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Laks

hi. haven't you checked Talk page? i explained about all sources with their links? why you revert? --– Hossein Iran « talk » 04:28, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

List of monarchs of Persia

Hi dear. The Median Empire was the first Empire of Persia. Why it absent at List of monarchs of Persia? Benyamin-ln (talk) 10:04, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Benyamin-ln: Dunno. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:58, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

should you add this Empire to top of the article? The first Shah of Persia is Deioces, not Cyrus the Great. Benyamin-ln (talk) 13:22, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Benyamin-ln: Agreed, you're welcome to add it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:44, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done Benyamin-ln (talk) 17:52, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Category:Generals of Yazdegerd III

Good morning, I've re-added Category:7th-century Iranian people as a parent to Category:Generals of Yazdegerd III. Even while a few were not Iranian by birth, they were clearly serving the country of Iran. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Marcocapelle: Good morning, this has been discussed several times, the category is only meant for ethnic Iranians. HistoryofIran (talk)

Difference between dynasty and empires

Hey i just added samanid saffarid and tahirid as persian empires but you removed them even they had references in them. Can you please explain why ? Saladin1987 20:57, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Saladin1987:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/dynasty

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/empire

--HistoryofIran (talk) 02:05, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

it says empire is group of countries ruled by one person which seems correct as these safari samanid and tahirid rule also included pakistan, Iran, Uzbekistan , Afghanistan, Turkmenistan. Saman khuda, yakub saffar and Tahir Ibn all ruled these countries so I think if they are referenced then they should have space in this article. What do you think about it. I don't myself to get blocked so I don't want to make the change. I would appreciate if you could at least look into it and try and add these legitimate empires.

Persian question

Hi-- I wonder if you can make out the couplets on this image. There's been some debate about what this image shows. I'm so bad at reading nasta'liq that I can hardly make out anything besides "مریم" and "خوش آمد", and even that could be wrong. Eperoton (talk) 21:46, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Eperoton: Hey there. Although I am a native speaker of Persian, I unfortunately can't read the script. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:04, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

stop edit war whit ip address

please stop we are more wiki user then you,It s not just your assessment that's important Joohnny braavoo1 (talk) 16:33, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Only if you teach me to speak English like you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:58, 31 July 2017styt

first stop whit edir war then i will shahan agah haha Joohnny braavoo1 (talk) 18:53, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

The Travels of Cyrus

This book, however fictional, contains illustrations of Cyrvs's actions during campaigns, and could prove useful. https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=BFpckTHEnBkC&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&hl=en&pg=GBS.PP7 In addition to other versions

50.101.168.221 (talk) 18:41, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Ya'qub ibn al-Layth al-Saffar

Hello HistoryofIran! I don't know if you saw, but I was translating the article to Portuguese these days. During the translation I had some problems with the text due lacking of citation. Part of the problems I corrected myself, but some of them I'm still having difficulty to solve. Do you mind giving me a hand? I would like any support, if possible, with the third paragraph in the section "Early life", where there is a "citation needed" tag and with the sections Ideology and Legacy, both of them there are notes, but some of the notes don't have the pages used to create the text. If you could help I will appreciate a lot. Cheers.--Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 03:26, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Your opinion please

Hi, i'm here because i'm looking for confirmed editors who are competent in the field of medieval islam. Judging by your contributions on Wikipedia, you are ! I would like to know your opinion about the article on Muhammad ibn-Musa al-Khwarizmi. I investigated the sources claiming he is the father of algebra, and i wanted to write in his article something like "often regarded as the father of algebra" or "considered by many as the father of algebra". I found many solid sources for that (S. Gandz, C. B. Boyer), but two other contrbutors want to state the weaker claim "considered the father of algebra by some authors". When i look at Hyppocrates for example, it's stated in his article "father of early medicine", not "father of early medicine for some authors" even if other candidates exist (Charaka or Imhotep)... Thanks for your valuable time and your precious opinion. Wikaviani (talk) 10:42, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Comment and participate

Since you're involved, please comment. Talk:Muhammad_ibn_Musa_al-Khwarizmi#Request_for_comment:_Should_ethnicity_of_al-Khwarizmi_appear_in_the_lead.3F --Wario-Man (talk) 14:03, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Done. But I write too much forum-ish, need to stop doing that. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:30, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Azizkhan Mukri

سلام. نام مقاله Aziz Khan Mokri به Azizkhan Mukri تغییر بدید. این صحیح‌تر از Mokri است. واژه Mokri در کردی لاتین استفاده می‌شود. Masoud bukani (talk) 11:53, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Women in Red World Contest

Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!

Perhaps of use

Though its all straightforward and basic information (I hadn't seen the paper before I think, though perhaps you had); Matthee, Rudi (2010). Was Safavid Iran and Empire?. Journal of the Economic and Social History of the Orient: 53. pp. 233-265.

Ethnic diversity;

"In its ethnic make-up, the Safavid realm was more heterogenous than in its religious diversity. The country was populated by Persians, Turks, and Arabs, in addition to a multitude of smaller, less prominent groups such as Baluchis, Kurds, Lurs, Turkmen, Circassians, and Lezghis. Further ethno-religious diversity was introduced with the transfer of large numbers of Armenians and Georgians, from their ancestral homelands, which were annexed by Safavid Iran (...) The country's domestic Armenians formed a sizeable group (...)" -- p. 240

Language of culture from the Balkans to India;

"Persian was also the language of culture, above all of poetry--as it was for the entire area between the Balkans and the Deccan--where it functioned as a lingua franca." -- p. 244

Diminishing of influence of the Turkomans;

"Beginning in the sixteenth century, the Safavids, seeking to curtail thepower and influence of the unruly tribal Turkman forces, introduced a new service elite without tribal ties consisting of Armenian, Georgian, and Circassian “slaves.” As said, these ghulams were given high-ranking positions in the military and the administration following their formal conversion to Islam. With a new identity came a new name. Many were named Rustam or Khusraw, names from the Shahnamah with links to the ancient mythical past." -- p. 245

- LouisAragon (talk) 18:24, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Sent you a mail regarding the Safavids and Gilan. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:21, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Replied. - LouisAragon (talk) 22:04, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, HistoryofIran. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Straw poll

Enjoy your holiday, meanwhile please feel free to vote in the straw polls on the protests page, and I or someone else will copy them over. zzz (talk) 10:28, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

zzz - Blocked users are not allowed to edit (except for their talk page), even by proxy. See WP:PROXYING.- MrX 13:21, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Ah, ok. I had no idea. zzz (talk) 13:28, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

zzz: Ehh... I vote yes though, if that makes any difference. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:35, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Pari Khan Khanum

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Pari Khan Khanum you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Mike Christie -- Mike Christie (talk) 12:21, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Mike Christie: Awesome, thank you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:44, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Pari Khan Khanum

The article Pari Khan Khanum you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Pari Khan Khanum for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Mike Christie -- Mike Christie (talk) 01:01, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: HistoryofIran is blocked for a few more days, so he can't edit. In order to speeden things up, I just requested a copy-edit for the article. Best, - LouisAragon (talk) 15:51, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Mike Christie: Seems like I rushed the article a bit when I made it, I'll fix the issues as soon as my block is gone. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:58, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

I will lift your block if you understand what you were blocked for and commit to not repeating the same behavior. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 19:18, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I think the article should be simply failed, to be honest, but I hate to do that when it takes so long to get a review. If you really think you can fix the issues within a week or so we can see how it goes. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:23, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

I left some notes at the GA review. Copy edits is one thing, but there are bigger things--education, for instance. Good luck, Drmies (talk) 18:25, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Mike Christie: I will try to fix it in the upcoming days if you're okay with waiting for that. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:01, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Yes, that's fine. I'll check with you in a week if I haven't seen any work done on the article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:52, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Pari Khan Khanum

The article Pari Khan Khanum you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:Pari Khan Khanum for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Mike Christie -- Mike Christie (talk) 23:41, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Any insight

All of the sources indicate a Persian origin for Hookah, but some Indians say otherwise [3]. They are talking about random BBC articles with no relevance. Care to clarify? Hazratleri (talk) 06:38, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Hazratleri: If they/he can't come up with proper reliable sources then they're not worth your nor my time. Just ignore and report if they revert again. Also, looking at his surname, it seems that Abu’l-Fath Gilani was more likely of Gilaki origin than Persian, but Iranian nonetheless. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:57, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the insight, however, an administer ([4]) is involved and incorrectly referred to the new edit by trolls as the "pre-dispute" edit, when the "Fatehpur Sikri" and other details are new and entirely made up and fictitious. In reality, the pre-dispute version is the pre-March 9th version which consists of the other edit. Hazratleri (talk) 06:47, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Daylamites

I did extensive work trying to organize that page, so I kindly ask you to restore the chronology as its important to make sense of the time & the evolution of the Daylamites. Also Daylam like many regions changed over time, similar examples in Germanic regions that morphed over time. Daylam from an Iranian POV is much smaller, but to outsiders (Greeks, Arabs, Zaydi & Nizari) Dayalmite referred to mountain folks per the map The Meadows of Gold. Which I understand doesn't reflect the Iranian Daylam, so please be open-minded so people reading about Daylamites can understand the context of the term at the medieval era (by then Daylamite influence exceeded Iran), I made sure to reference a date for the map, as it is 10th century specific.

A lot of details are missing regarding the role of Daylamites/Daylam important role in the (Justanid Zoroastrian then Sunni? & Zaydi?) (Ziyarid Zoroastrian then Sufi?) (Buyid Sunni) (Daylamite Abna Ridda War then Zaydi Yemen) & (Alamut Ismaili) era, this might not be as useful & complementary to the modern Sunni/Twelver Shia people so I will not expect users to go out of their way to add this, but its an important part of Mideastern history & the most important role Daylamites played. If you don't feel interested in the subject, that is fine I will try to improve it, as long as you don't feel offended in any way, I will make sure the Anti-Arab role within Daylam remains. I do apologize if I failed to properly reference Iranica (I tried to copy as much as possible from that website, to keep the article as much Iranian as possible). Most the mentions of Daylam are in Arabic (due to their possible inaccurate classification of a bigger region as Daylam), Khoda Hafiz. Droveaxle (talk) 06:45, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Copying direct information from other Wikipedia sites without giving credit and sites such as Iranica (which is copyright, thus against the rules and could get you blocked, even banned) and adding an innacurate map is not extensive work. Majority of academic sources state that Daylam was a small mountainous region in Gilan, not the size of Tabaristan. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:45, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

I get that part (rules), hence I expect you to fix the article since you are an active volunteer on Wikipedia. Your view of a smaller Daylam comes down to the concept of

• Greater Tabaristan (Eastern highlands) -Lineal Iranian history-
• Greater Gilan (coastal low lands) -Lineal Iranian history-
• Greater Dayalm (Western highlands) -Disrupted Zoroastrian/Zaydi/Ismaili Iranian history-

In medieval times those 3 regions overlapped each other (which is normal). In the Meadows of Gold, Al-Mutanabbi poem Daylam is referring to the homeland of the Buyids, in Ismaili chronicles the Western Highlands are refereed to as Daylam. I am aware of the current preference for a Gilaki identity in Iran & the absence of the Daylamite influence as their main 3 religions are no longer popular in Iran, so obviously the name will shrink with the political influence. A similar example is Baden in Switzerland, it was a Swabian center, then the original base of the Habsburgs, but overtime the Swiss fought them out & Baden proper lost its importance & size, another Baden moved a bit north and now Baden is large part of Germany & Baden is a less celebrated Swiss part of Metro Zurich (humans do that all the time!). Similar examples exist all over the world, its merely a geographic-historic shift (Calibria in Italy actually changed from heal to toe, due to change of influence, then it stuck geographically). If you have time list Persian sources it will be very helpful, as I am doing extensive research on this historic specific population (that might have included Tabari, Gilaki & more Iranians, example the current article has no mention of Fayruz al Daylami, (It shows that Daylamites were actually playing an important role in an religion). The article is missing a lot of the Zaydi & Ismaili Daylamites (not popular but historic), so every bit of contribution (especially Persian resources will be very useful). I will try to elaborate on the talk page, once I sort out all the historic sources on the Daylam/Daylamites, will appreciate the addition of your sources, Thanks for the reply. Droveaxle (talk) 06:16, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Not going to 'fix' anything. Also stop changing sourced information, thanks. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:41, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Template:People of Khorasan

Hi, you seem to be contributing to Iran-related pages, and I am wondering if you can share your views in this voting. The Template:People of Khorasan has been tagged by someone for deletion. I have challenged the decision here. The discussion is open for voting. Can you please give your views in this page? Thanks --Cabolitæ (talk) 13:09, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Navbox

I've created Template:Sasanian Empire. Feel free to improve and edit it. Regards. --Wario-Man (talk) 08:12, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Shapur I's relief

Hello HistoryofIran! I'm expanding the Portuguese article about Shapur and I mentioned one of his reliefs, the one from Darabgerd. I would like to post a photo of it on the article, but we still don't have any of it on Commons. I found some on Flickr but most of them have the owner's name on them or they are not so good. On Iranica there is one (click on Plate III), but I cannot find any way to contact the owner to ask for the photo. Would you like to help me to take any photo of the relief? I would really appreciate your aid!--Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 07:24, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Scythians: Please comment

We want to rewrite the lead section. Would you please participate and comment here? Talk:Scythians#New_Iranica_article Thanks. --Wario-Man (talk) 06:04, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Sure. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:15, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Disruptive IP

This disruptive IP,[5] who's trying to push an irredentist e-nationalistic POV, tried to do the same thing here.[6] Its obviously the same person (same geolocation, same type of edit summaries, same habit, same proficiency in English, etc.). Just to let you know. - LouisAragon (talk) 18:21, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Hey, was wondering if you have any good sources on your mind that could be of use to do some expanding. Pref. Safavid/Sasanian but if you have anything else in mind then my ears are open as well. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:42, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Good to see you're back dude! :-) Well, you're much more up-to-date regarding the Sasanians than I am, so I doubt I could suggest anything new. I guess quite a few new papers/articles/books have been released in the past 1-2 years about the Sasanians.

Sources

• Encyclopedia Iranica (trivial of course :P They added many new articles in the past few months. Always a good source to get matters starting).

These are some of the most important i.e. "must-have" sources regarding the Safavids, IMO;

• Floor, Willem M. (2008). Titles and Emoluments in Safavid Iran: A Third Manual of Safavid Administration, by Mirza Naqi Nasiri. Washington, DC: Mage Publishers. ISBN 978-1933823232.
• Floor, Willem; Herzig, Edmund, eds. (2012). Iran and the World in the Safavid Age. I.B.Tauris.
• Maeda, Hirotake (2003). "On the Ethno-Social Backgrounds of the Four Gholam Families from Georgia in Safavid Iran". Studia Iranica.
• Matthee, Rudi (2012). Persia in Crisis: Safavid Decline and the Fall of Isfahan. I.B.Tauris
• Floor, Willem (2010). Who were the Shamkhal and the Usmi?
• Matthee, Rudolph P. (1999). The Politics of Trade in Safavid Iran: Silk for Silver, 1600-1730. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
• Mikaberidze, Alexander (2015). Historical Dictionary of Georgia (2 ed.). Rowman & Littlefield.
• Savory, Roger (2007). Iran Under the Safavids. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
• Rayfield, Donald (2012). Edge of Empires: A History of Georgia
• Suny, Ronald Grigor (1994). The Making of the Georgian Nation. Indiana University Press.
• Floor, Willem M.; Faghfoory, Mohammad H. (2007). The Dastur Al-moluk: A Safavid State Manual, by Mohammad Rafi' al-Din Ansari. Mazda Publishers.
• Floor, Willem (2001). Safavid Government Institutions. Costa Mesa, California: Mazda Publishers.
• Blow, David (2009). Shah Abbas: The Ruthless King Who became an Iranian Legend. London, UK: I.B. Tauris & Co. Ltd.
• Babaie, Sussan; Babayan, Kathryn; Baghdiantz-McCabe, Ina; Farhad, Massumeh (2004). Slaves of the Shah: New Elites of Safavid Iran. I.B. Tauris.
• Matthee, Rudi; Floor, Willem; Clawson, Patrick (2013). The Monetary History of Iran: From the Safavids to the Qajars. I.B. Tauris.

Btw, Matthee is going to publish a new major work vis-a-vis the Safavids in 2019[7]. If you want my suggestion regarding sources for the early Qajar era as well, let me know. - LouisAragon (talk) 18:36, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

I think our main focus should remain the Sasanian/Safavid era's, at least for the time being. Early Qajar/Zand/Afsharid on 2nd place, and the Achaemenid/Parthian era's on third place (even though its not really our "niche"). I also think we should kinda employ the same tactic Cplakidas is using; getting as many articles and GA's off the ground.

Btw, the Qajar dynasty map needs a minor adjustment in the NW. I asked Oganesson007 many months ago whether he could fix that part, but it seems he's no longer active on eng.wiki. I found a proper source by Michael Axworthy that could be used as reference.[8] Perhaps you could fix it when you have time? - LouisAragon (talk) 18:36, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

My final point for the time being; should we add Category:Invasions of Iran to the Battle of Granicus article? - LouisAragon (talk) 18:36, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Thanks mate, and I agree. Btw, is there supposed to be a map of Qajar Iran in the link? I can't view the page. Also I guess we could add the category. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:21, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Check your mail, just sent you the page. ;-) - LouisAragon (talk) 13:40, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Replied, and sent you some more material. - LouisAragon (talk) 18:11, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Just messing a bit with infoboxes; what do you think about this one?[9] Suited for individuals like him? Also, sent you another mail. I think you'll especially like #3. - LouisAragon (talk) 04:21, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Could you fix the transliterations on this article?[10] I.e. remove those that are incorrect? Recently, Wiki received an influx of "new accounts" introducing large amounts of tendentious/unsourced POV edits on numerous articles pertaining to classical antiquity/late antiquity articles/early Islamic history. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:34, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

The infobox looks good. Cool, I'll check the mail in a bit mate :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:27, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

I apologize for the interruption, but could I have both of you check through the Shapur II article. Edits by user:Refoelp and while logged out IP:212.76.109.134 & IP:2a01:6500:a042:b2f3:7142:72a9:9015:7e6d & IP:213.151.36.39, which have added non neutral wording and undue weight to numerous articles with their edits. I have removed Gibbon as a source(Shapur II), but I would appreciate your perspectives on this article.
AND if/when you gentlemen have time I would seriously appreciate both of your perspectives on User:Kansas Bear/Persian wars of Constantius II. I have resolved to change the title of the article to Perso-Roman wars of 337–361, just so you know. Please compare my version to this, Persian wars of Constantius II. Thanks. --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:50, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Could you take a look at this article?[11] Contains quite some fallacies I think. - LouisAragon (talk) 01:53, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Yeah, Nicolle would certainly not be the first historian I would choose if I were to write about the Muslim conquests. I can't view much, but the book 'The Great Islamic Conquests AD 632–750' already seems rather awkward/ignorant/outdated compared to the works of Frye, Yarshater, etc. The role of slaves in Sasanian society seem to be over-exaggerated in his book, especially when he compares it to slavery under the Caliphate in his assumption. Would be better if we used the works of some scholars specialising in Iranian history. Not to mention the Sasanians barely had a foothold in Afghanistan during their decline, let alone in Central Asia. The problem is that almost the whole article is based of Nicolle's work. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:21, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, my thoughts exactly. I have one Qajar and one Safavid-related article awaiting GA review atm. I will work on some antiquity-related articles afterwards. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:01, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Just wondering; would you agree with these edits?[12]-[13]-[14]-[15]-[16]-[17]-[18]-[19]-[20] - LouisAragon (talk) 22:16, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

LouisAragon: I'm kinda neutral on this one. I do however think that the Iranian presence/influence in Mughal India is undermined in Wikipedia. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:33, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Could you elaborate more on what you mean with neutral? Please remove those categories you think are unjustified.

• "I do however think that the (...)"

That's something I noticed as well, but I would say its rather a general rule. Most foreigners/people of foreign descent in Mughal India — even those that were born in far away lands — are often dubbed as "fully Indian" category-wise on Wikipedia. I've seen British, Turkic, Iranian, and Portuguese migrants (just to name a few), including their descendants, being labeled as "fully Indian", without any sort of category referring to their foreign descent. - LouisAragon (talk) 22:54, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

LouisAragon: I mean, it's not inaccurate the categories you're adding, so it's fine. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:36, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Aight. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:37, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Might be of use.[21] - LouisAragon (talk) 23:03, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

New article on the last Sasanians.[22] Studia Iranica, Iran and the Caucasus, Journal of Persianate Studies and Journal of Iranian Studies publish great works on a steady basis. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:17, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Byzantine–Sasanian War of 602–628

Hi HistoryofIran, since you obviously have much knowledge about Persia's history, could you please give your opinion about the outcome of the last war between the Sasanian and Byzantine Empires ? There is a discussion on the article's talk page. Thank you very much. Best regards.---Wikaviani (talk) 00:12, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

RfC

Hello historian. I would like you to wait till we've consensus at WP:RfC which I'm going to start. Thanks. Störm (talk) 13:16, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

There was no consensus on your edits, hence I am changing back it original. It doesn't work the other way. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:51, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

I found more weird changes. Perso-Indian people?[23] Seems he added it to numerous articles without any source or whatsoever. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:06, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Disruptive editing at best. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:25, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Baba Tahir

I just restored my 2017 revision [24] due to disruptive changes by several users and IPs.[25] Comparing with my older revision [26] and the discussion on talk page, how "Persian" has become "Iranian"? --Wario-Man (talk) 00:50, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Comment request

Since you were involved in a similar discussion before, similar issue: [27] --Wario-Man (talk) 14:46, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, HistoryofIran. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Zabulistan

Hi HistoryofIran,

Better just take the discussion here instead of starting an editwar over this. Minorsky's "Hudud al-'Alam" mentions Jaguda on page 346 (as cited), he in turn cites work conducted by Marquart. Li, Rongxi (1995). The Great Tang Dynasty Record of the Western Regions likewise translate the Chinese name of the region as Jaguda, this is a contemporary source translated by a scholar in Chinese and Sanskrit, with which there is no doubt within the academic community to what geography this name refers to. By stripping the article of this name, you leave a hole in scholarly research as a big chunk of what is known about pre-islamic Zabul is refered to as Jaguda in Chinese and Indian sources, such as the Chinese travel accounts, the Chachnama and Kashmiri chronicles. Kuwayama likewise has written extensively on this according to Khodadad, though I do not have access to this work myself, and so I have not cited it. My goal is to expand this article based on what the above mentioned scholars have written about it, which includes the term Jaguda. You are free to convince me otherwise, but I currently don't agree (as extensively referenced) that no scholars have tied Zabul to Jaguda. It is therefore in my mind an obvious part of the article which has this far been excluded, I'm guessing because of as the lack of source material among the editors.

If you do not believe that the research done on these names, which share the same geography during the same time-period, and which names may or may not be linguistically related, I'd prefer that we reach a concensus on how to categorize these in seperate articles rather than simply excluding one over the other. However, as the terms "Zabul" from numismatic evidence and Jaguda from textual sources are used in parallell with eachother during hundreds of years, I do not think that a two article solution would be a preferable solution. The article is far from complete (though that was the case before I made my first edit anyways) through I've tried to add to it little by little and providing page nrs with the textual sources given.

Get back to me so that we can reach a consensus! Have a nice evening, Anang192 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anang192 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

It is already mentioned in the article, which is enough. It's not also known as 'Jaguda'; majority of academic sources refer it to as Zabulistan. Take Khwarazm for example, not all versions of the name is mentioned in the lead. Sure we can mention it down below in etmytology and/or history section but then that's about it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:45, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Is there a protocol for whether a name of a historical region is worth mentioning in an article? If it's mentioned by two names in contemporary sources, then I do not see why it should be such a big deal to include both in the lead. I do agree that one is dominant over the other in discussion today, as the little information available has come down from Persian to the West, however why should this be such a dominating factor?

Anang192 (talk) 19:03, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

It shouldn't be included in the lead because it is literally not 'also known as Jaguda'. It's known as Zabulistan, with variants of Zabolestan and Zawulistan. Zabulistan has also been once called 'Ko-ho-lo-chih' and 'Ts'ao-chu-cha', still doesn't mean it should be in the lead. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:07, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

You're not being very accommodating here. I think it's quite a silly thing to make such a big deal about. However, it's not the only thing you have retracted despite thorough citation from my part. Going through all of these books drawing citation is hard work, retracting others work and moving around paragraphs is easy. Your retractions has this far been hinging mainly on you not personally recognizing academic sources based on who knows what bias. As long as my work is correctly referenced I expect it to be edited with care and removal of text be done discreetely and only when clearly not matching the source material. I am for example not a great fan of the Andre Wink citations (as it's basically a third-grade source) however I won't remove those additions unless I have something better to replace them with. --Anang192 (talk) 19:41, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

I've literally come up with the most simple explanation there is. How you see that as not being 'very accommodating' and that I am 'making a big deal about it' is beyond me. Not to mention you're putting words in my mouth right now. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:56, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't want to make an argument about this. I hoped that you would understand the simple fact that alot of what you retracted was referenced with academic sources. I've done my best to portray this region both in light of its (numismatically, archeologically and literally confirmed) Iranic and Indian heritage and you've this far only retracted things which skewns it towards a Iranocentric portrayal (while suggesting that I've skewing this towards an Indian? portrayal). You base this on "it's not called that" and "sources don't say that" statements that are just as transparent as they are short. If that's the standard other editors have put your material through I'm surprised that anything you've written has stayed published.

Anang192 (talk) 20:15, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

@Anang192:: Please read my comments again instead of edit warring, it seems like you didn't understood what I meant. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:54, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

That is a possibility. Whatever the case I suggest that this matter is provided an open discussion on the articles talk page, and I just noticed your entry. The article has been in severe need of attention for a long time and is part of why I decided to make a Wikipedia-account in the first place. I'll look forward to seeing additions to the article from you in the future and please state whatever questions/criticisms that you may have to my previous entries in the Talk page and I'll be happy to discuss them. If I'm wrong I'll be happy to see things retracted or changed however I would like the matter discussed first if I've had to put down hours of reading to reach that conclusion in the first place. Most edits were made recently as sort of a springboard to get this article going again and apparently it has succeeded in drawing attention. My plan to work on them further when I find the time.

Good nigtht!

Anang192 (talk) 23:52, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

EoI THREE, mother of Sultan Husayn

I noticed a huge number of awesome entries within EoI THREE. Never really paid proper attention to it. I wish we had free access to all of its entries. Having said that...I never knew Sultan Husayn's mother was Circassian?...Weird. At least, according to EoI SECOND;[28]

"Sulṭān Ḥusayn, S̲h̲āh, Ṣafawid ruler, reigned 1105-35/1694-1722, the eldest son and successor of S̲h̲āh Sulaymān [q.v.], born in 1080/1669-70 to a Circassian mother, and died in 1139/1726. He was crowned S̲h̲āh on 7 August 1694, nine days after his father’s death after divisions of opinion at court over the succession." - LouisAragon (talk) 01:56, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Yeah my access ran out some hours ago lel. It's really expensive imo. It's like 12 euro just for a single day. --HistoryofIran (talk) 02:34, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, crazy prices, but they really have some amazing stuff. Those sneaky bastardzz know they can demand such prices because they have good shit at their disposal, haha. Btw, if you need anything specific from EoI THREE, you could ask Cplakidas as well. He has helped me out in the past with numerous entries.[29] I'm sure he'd be willing to help you out as well. He has free access to EoI THREE through some University account as far as I remember... Anyways, I will probably purchase some "game time" as well, somewhere in the future. Makes it a whole lot easier. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:48, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Well I spammed through pages and pages when I had access to it earlier, but couldn't find anything interesting, but when the time expired, I suddenly started to find things worth digging into. Btw, since most of the Safavid articles have their name spelled in New Persian instead of Classical, wouldn't it be about time we did the same to a few of the Safavid rulers as well, Khodabanda -> Khodabandeh etc?. --HistoryofIran (talk) 03:10, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Yes, definitely, good call. We are going to need WP:RM though. Same goes for some of those famous painters/writers. Inb4 "undiscussed controversial move". - LouisAragon (talk) 17:19, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Btw, have you seen these new Sasanian-related titles? Thought you might be interested:

• Rezakhani, Khodadad (2017). ReOrienting the Sasanians: East Iran in Late Antiquity. Edinburgh University Press
• Curtis, Vesta Sarkhosh.; Alram, Michael.; Daryaee, Touraj; Pendleton, Elizabeth, eds. (2016). The Parthian and Early Sasanian Empires: adaptation and expansion. Oxbow Books.
• Sauer, Eberhard. (2017). Sasanian Persia: Between Rome and the Steppes of Eurasia. Edinburgh University Press
• Schindel, Nikolaus.; Abarzadeh, Daryoosh. (2017). Sylloge Nummorum Sasanidarum Iran - A late Sasanian Hoard from Orumiyeh. Verlag der österreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften.
• Daryaee, Touraj.; Rezakhani, Khodadad (2016).From Oxus to Euphrates: The World of Late Antique Iran. H&S Media
• Nicholson, Oliver, ed (2018). The Oxford Dictionary of Late Antiquity . Oxford University Press. 1637 pages
• Van Bladel, Kevin T. (2017). From Sasanian Mandaeans to Ṣābians of the Marshes. BRILL
• Shayegan, M. Rahim. (2018). Arsacids and Sasanians: Political Ideology in Post-Hellenistic and Late Antique Persia. University of Cambridge Press.
• Vacca, Alison. (2017). Non-Muslim Provinces under Early Islam: Islamic Rule and Iranian Legitimacy in Armenia and Caucasian Albania. Cambridge University Press

And a big one coming out in 2019:

• Daryaee, Touraj. (2019). Ancient Iran: A Concise History. I. B. Tauris

Also, though not Sasanian, but still:

• Floor, Willem. (2019). The Safavid State: Government, Judiciary, Religious Institution and the Army. Mazda Publishers.

- LouisAragon (talk) 03:08, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

I have not, looks like a breath of fresh air. Appreciate it mate :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:25, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

You're welcome man. Happy holidays btw! ;-) - LouisAragon (talk) 16:38, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks pal, likewise :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:28, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Btw, I uploaded quite a few coins in the past few months/weeks, if you wanna check my uploads; [30] - LouisAragon (talk) 23:14, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Hey, could you check these articles and add appropriate categories?[31]-[32]-[33]-[34] I found it rather tough. - LouisAragon (talk) 01:05, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: Done. Also, I assume this a typo of Xerxes? Xerses I's inscription at Van. Great expansion of the article btw. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:23, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks man! Probably wouldn't have noticed that typo anytime soon if it werent for you. :D - LouisAragon (talk) 14:31, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

[35] - LouisAragon (talk) 17:05, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Yo, should we use Khvaja/Khvajah/Khvajeh for ppl of the Safavid order (i.e. pre-Safavid dynasty)? I just moved Ali Safavi to Khvajeh Ali Safavi but I'm curious about your opinion. PS: I think we should open a WP:RM for Safaviyya as well. The utter vast majority English [[WP:RS] refer to it as the "Safavid order". - LouisAragon (talk) 00:54, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: Ye sure, and I agree. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:03, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Done.[36] - LouisAragon (talk) 01:47, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

I removed some of these WP's, seemed very far-fetched to me. Would you agree? - LouisAragon (talk) 21:43, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

@LouisAragon:: Ye I agree --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:01, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

I just got unlimited access to Brill Online Reference Works for a day. If you need something, please let me know. - LouisAragon (talk) 20:22, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

@LouisAragon:: That's great bruv, could you send me [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42]? Lel --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:01, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Done. Check your mail ;-) - LouisAragon (talk) 00:36, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

@LouisAragon:: Thanks mate, appreciate it very much. Btw, when you have time, could you suggest a move for Seven Parthian clans -> Seven Great Houses of Iran? You're better at argumenting and coming up with those numbers than me. EDIT: And could you send me [43] as well? it's more recently published, lel. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:12, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Always welcome. Also just sent you the new Babak entry. If you need any more stuff (even if its just for later use), take your chance. Got a few more hours left, haha. - LouisAragon (talk) 15:00, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Yo I'm curious for your opinion. Its about this figure I'm working on in my sandbox.[44] The Encyclopedia of Islam says this:

• "Ādhar was the pen name of Ḥājjī Luṭf ʿAlī Beg b. Āqā Khān (1134–95/1722–81), a Persian anthologist and poet. He was descended from a family belonging to the Turkmen Begdili (Ar. Bīgdilī) tribe, in Syria; the family had migrated to Iran in the ninth/fifteenth century and settled in Isfahan. Many of his relatives served the later Ṣafavids and Nādir Shāh (r. 1148–60/1736–47) as administrators and diplomats."'

Azar/Adhar's family had lived in Iran for more than two centuries and had become thoroughly part of the Iranian ("Persian") bureaucratic elite. Hence why the Enc. of Islam bluntly calls Azar "Persian", and only refer to his Turkoman origins in the sentences that follow. I decided not to mention his Turkoman origins in the lede as it clearly didn't play an important role in the identity/life of Azar. This is what I currently have: ("Hajji Lotf-Ali Beg Azar,[a] also simply known as Azar Bigdeli, or by his nom de plume Azar (1722-1781), was a Persian anthologist and poet"). Thoughts? This Iranica article just calls him "Iranian".[45] - LouisAragon (talk) 09:44, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Also, btw, were the Bigdelis a branch of the Shamlu?... I found Iranica's "Bigdeli" article to be pretty vague,[46] and Azar Bigdeli's own article on Iranica doesn't provide any clarity, for it even says that the Shamlu were a branch of the Bigdeli?[47] Weird af. - LouisAragon (talk) 09:48, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: I think it's fine enough that you've mentioned his original Turkoman descent in his biography section. Hmm dunno, I just remember that the Shamlu were one of the seven Qizilbash clans, I don't recall the Bigdeli being one of them. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:16, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Is this correct?[48] - LouisAragon (talk) 13:56, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: I have no idea lel.

Yo, just created this article: Safavid occupation of Basra (1697–1701). What do you think about the two pics? Couldn't really find anything better. - LouisAragon (talk) 17:26, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: Hmm, perhaps move the Basra picture up in a infobox and then add a illustration/picture of Baghdad/its holy mosques in the lower part of the background section? Maybe add this [49] in the upper part of the background section? --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:50, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestions mate. What type of infobox should I use though? - LouisAragon (talk) 12:10, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Btw, I'm not sure about this map you added to Arsaces I of Parthia.[50] Most WP:RS sources seem to describe Parthia as being located in what is present-day Northeastern Iran, yet that map covers half of Turkmenistan as well. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:37, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: Perhaps something like [51]? Regarding Parthia; Yeah I see what you mean, but it could also refer to the Parthian kingdom. But yeah all in all I don't have much else, resources (esp good maps) are quite low when it comes to antiquity Iran lel, which is why I think I'll start with Safavid articles again, getting tired of looking at coins. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:17, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Tested the infobox, but I don't think its suitable for this article. The story is too complex, and the sources don't tell anything about strengths/casualties during the various "chapters" of the occupation. As for Iranian antiquity articles, there's tons of material to be found about the Achaemenid and Sasanian era's (general interest in Iranian history has been booming in the last 10-15 yrs as we both know), but for some reason, proper material about the Parthian era is still kinda lacking. Perhaps due to the the lack of extant sources written by the Parthians? IDK. I mean the general narrative is there if we take a look at the FA-class Parthian Empire article, but proper details about Parthian-era individuals (unlike individuals from literally any other entity in Iranian history) remain pretty hard to find IMO. As for "getting tired of those coins", LOL, I know dat feel bruv. - LouisAragon (talk) 19:22, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Could you add this article to your watchlist?[52] Its subject to utter nonsense every now and then (single purpose IP's/accounts adding unsourced or non-RS stuff). - LouisAragon (talk) 20:07, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

I just added some material from the latest Oxford dictionary of Late Antiquity (2018).[53] Pretty astonishing, it appears that Cappadocia still retained a strong Iranian core, well into the Roman era. Anyways, do you think my wording is "neutral" enough? [54] Just curious for your opinion. Thanks mate, - LouisAragon (talk) 23:51, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: I think it's good, some nice details. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:08, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Safavids' date

As I asked here[1], why you did revert my edit? Shahanshah5 (talk) 10:32, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

@Shahanshah5: I didn't get the notification, you'll have to ping me next time. Anyways you're suddenly changing information which has been standing for a long time. 1736 is not some random date that is added on the article, there is in fact many sources that support that date. Also you usually don't add a source on the date of the fall of a certain dynasty in a infobox - that should be somewhere else. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:49, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran:, Can we write its fall date as 1722 or 1736 in the infobox?

Well I don't rule this website, but no. It would look messy. 1736 is fine, dunno why you're making such a big deal out of it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:15, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Well, I think if show its both fall dates, it would be more accurate. But I'm agree that just 1736 looks better. Shahanshah5 (talk) 10:35, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Happy shab-e Chelleh

Hey, wish you a happy shab-e Chelleh ! Best regards.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 21:04, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

nizami ganjavi

hello.this guy wants to add turk/azerbaijani to nizami. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Campaign_on_granting_Nizami_the_status_of_the_national_poet_of_Azerbaijan#Neutrality_of_this_article 89.165.95.109 (talk) 20:16, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Greetings !

Hello HistoryofIran: Enjoy the holiday season, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, ---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 19:29, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message

Thanks mate, likewise :). --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:28, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

You might be interested

[55] - LouisAragon (talk) 18:03, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, HistoryofIran. You have new messages at Talk:Sistan#Undiscussed_controversial_page_move.
Message added 21:13, 9 January 2019 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

DBigXrayᗙ 21:13, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Phraates IV and the House of Karen

Hey just wanted to talk about the removal of 'Karen' as a son of Phraates. I thought that its generally believed that the Karenas are descended from the Parthians somehow. And that Movses Khorenatsi's suggestion seems a pretty good one. But anyways I see where you're coming from.

How about a compromise? Have Karen as a son of Phraates, but with a question mark or the word 'possibly' in brackets? Maybe with a relevent quote in the ref to explain the uncertainty? Idk. Tbh its not a huge thing, I'll leave it up to you. Thanks Alivardi (talk) 23:08, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Hey @Alivardi: I re-added it due to [56]. But yeah generally we have to be careful with older sources on genealogies because they are often false. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:49, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks buddy, I'll keep that in mind Alivardi (talk) 13:27, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Babak Khorramdin

Thanks for adding a source, but it only seems to mention the month of his death, not the actual date. Can you please find something that actually verifies he died on January 7? Deb (talk) 20:45, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

@Deb: It's not written in the lead of the source, but at the almost bottom of it. "To give the populace an exemplary lesson, a parade was held in the following week, most probably on Monday, 6 Ṣafar 223/7 January 838, in which Bābak, clad in an embroidered cloak and capped with a miter, was made to ride on an elephant which had been given to al-Maʾmūn by an Indian king, while his brother, ʿAbd-Allāh, also specially clad and capped, was mounted on a camel. Two verses of Moḥammad b. ʿAbd-al-Malek Zayyāt about this elephant are quoted by Ṭabarī (see Sadighi, p. 266 n. 2). The whole length of the street to the Bāb al-ʿĀmma was lined on both sides with cavalrymen and foot soldiers and huge numbers of people. Then al-Moʿtaṣem ordered the executioner to proceed."

Encyclopaedia Islamica [57] states this as well; "On 3 Ṣafar 223/4 January 838, Afshīn brought Bābak and ʿAbd Allāh to Sāmarrāʾ, and kept Bābak in his house. Three days later the caliph held a public audience at his palace (al-Ṭabarī, 9/53), and Bābak’s hands and feet were cut off and his throat cut."

--HistoryofIran (talk) 20:51, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Great, thanks - sorry I missed it. Deb (talk) 20:53, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Arsaces I of Parthia

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Arsaces I of Parthia you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of T8612 -- T8612 (talk) 15:01, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Arsaces I of Parthia

The article Arsaces I of Parthia you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:Arsaces I of Parthia for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of T8612 -- T8612 (talk) 15:21, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Do you need the Cambridge History of Iran? I have them in pdf. T8612 (talk) 18:20, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

@T8612: Yeah that would be nice, I used to have them a few years back but not anymore. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:30, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Tome 1 and tome 2. 1821 pages, enjoy. T8612 (talk) 03:36, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Your thoughts

Hey, i requested a move here. Thoughts ?---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 11:20, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your valuable insight. Take care mate.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:00, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Disruptive editing

would you please stop removing my editings? [58] I just added some references and photos you can not ignore or delete them