User talk:Stephen Bain/Archive 7

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November Esperanza Newsletter

Program Feature: Admin Coaching (needs coaches!) Admin Coaching needs coaches!!! If you are an administrator, or even a generally experienced user, do consider signing up to be a coach. Admin Coaching, now being coordinated by HighwayCello, is a program for people who want help learning some of the more subtle aspects of Wikipedia policy and culture. People are matched with experienced users who are willing to offer coaching. The program is designed for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins. What's New? The Tutorial Drive is a new Esperanza program! In an effort to make complicated processes on Wikipedia easier for everyone, Esperanza working to create and compile a list of tutorials about processes here on Wikipedia. Consider writing one! A discussion on how Esperanza relates to the encyclopedia has been started; please add your thoughts. Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.

The last AC meeting (full log) The list of proposed programs has been updated, with some proposals being archived. There is now a new program: the Tutorial Drive! Consider writing a tutorial on something you are good at doing on Wikipedia. The suggestion of adding a cohesive look to all the Esperanza pages is being considered; join the discussion if you are interested! In order to make a useful interlanguage welcome template, those involved in translation projects will be asked what English Wikipedia policies are most important and confusing to editors coming from other language Wikipedias. A discussion of Esperanza's role in Wikipedia is being held, with all thoughts of all Esperanzians wanted! Shreshth91 informed everyone that he will be leaving the Esperanza council as life is rather busy; his spot will be filled by the runner up from the last election, HighwayCello. Signed... Natalya, Banes, Celestianpower, EWS23, FireFox, The Halo, Shreshth91 and HighwayCello 20:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

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Template:AustraliaPM

Sir, I must once again state my disagreement with your removal of a second mention of Menzies from the template. While I see your point, my own argument is based on consistency. Are you willing to remove a second mention of Arvid Lindman from Template:SwedishPrimeMinisters? Of Olusẹgun Ọbasanjọ from Template:NigerianPresidents? Of Grover Cleveland from Template:USPresidents? Of Wilhelm Marx from Template:GermanChancellors? Of Jacques Chirac from Template:FrenchPrimeMinisters? Of Alexandru Averescu from Template:RomanianPrimeMinisters? Of William Lyon Mackenzie King and Pierre Trudeau from Template:CanPM? If so, that would be somewhat drastic. If not, why not? What makes Australia special in this regard? Biruitorul 22:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't really mind about those other templates, but it just happens that this is the way all of the Australian templates have been done for a long time (cf {{VictoriaPremiers}}), and I think it works better. If you mentioned Menzies' second term, you'd have to mention Deakin's second and third terms, and Fisher's second and third terms, plus Hughes' second and third terms, which would get very complicated since they were consecutive, but are actually separate terms since he was leading three different parties.

It seems much easier to keep all that information at Prime Minister of Australia#List of Prime Ministers, where there's space to fit it all in, and keep the template as a simple list. --bainer (talk) 01:22, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

You're right that it could get quite messy, but I do think there's reason to back my idea. However, if this is the stable consensus that exists for Australian templates, I suppose we can live with that. Thank you for your explanation. Biruitorul 06:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Template:Wr

With all due respect I think I'll have to dispute your speedy of this one. Removing warnings is considered vandalism per VAND and it is a well known and accepted practice to block / protect user talk pages of users who constantly remove it. I must ask that you restore it..... -- Tawker 05:13, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Eagle has undeleted them. As I said to him, I'm not going to delete them again, I'll just let my reasoning stand for itself and someone else can act if they like. I will have to disagree with you about these templates. I'm sure that blocking and protection can be used in many cases where a user is removing warnings, for example if a vandal is blanking warnings to confuse future RC patrollers (I'd block them myself in that case). But the problem with the templates is that they imply a universal approach, and policy status, when that is simply not the case. I've expressed these reasons here and here. How would you respond to those arguments? --bainer (talk) 06:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Undeleted the wr templates

I am sorry, but I undeleted these templates according to restoring ... speedy not in sych with this discussion. I don't think CSD was the proper avenue to get these deleted. —— Eagle (ask me for help) 05:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not going to delete them again, I'll just let my reasoning stand for itself and someone else can act if they like. I've done my best to explain my reasons here and here (including why I disregarded the outcomes of the TfD debates). How do you respond to those reasons? --bainer (talk) 06:02, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Bainer, I also agree with your reasoning, and have left a note to that effect on ANI and DRV, but I also want to mention that I think your actions in this have been exemplary, both by showing a perfect example of why IAR is offical policy, and then by just letting the reasoning stand, which I hope it will, given the ANI discussion. So this is just a short note to say well done, as I feel wikipedia has a tendency to be too negative, where people are quick to tell you when you've done wrong, but are silent when you do well, which is a pity. Regards, MartinRe 13:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Status of Victorian election campaign

Thanks for your thoughts Stephen, the article hasn't been altered considerably since my message on your talk page though. The consensus at the moment is to wait until after the election before taking a surgeon's knife to it, although how that knife will be wielded has yet to be decided. Grumpyyoungman01 07:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Ty for your advice!

Thanks for the advice! Now, can i ask you if there's any way to keep anyone except you, the administrators from editing my user pages? I'll try to write as many articles as i'll be able to, but i want my user page to be clean and under any circumstances, i'd like to keep it clean. I doesn't bother me if you, the administrators are gonna edit it, but i'd like to keep it clean from any other registered / unregistered user..

Thanks in advance, BC

Thanks

I wanted to use a preload in :fr, but I didn't know the includeonly trick, and didn't manage to do it.

Now, it works perfectly :

Jmfayard 10:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Parton v Milk Board (Vic)

Hi Stephen, as you're a law student, as I was wondering what you thought of the discussion at this article - the issue is about the inclusion of a category. I'm seeking third opinions because I don't think either of us are budging either way. Thanks. enochlau (talk) 12:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, posted my view to the talk page. --bainer (talk) 02:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

UNFanatic

He was warned a few times, http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:UNFanatic&oldid=86593621

He also made sure to keep all the user pages that used the image up to date. see today's history on these pages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Joseph_Sanderson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rubena http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jewbask http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Geam9111 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Caligvla (talk • contribs) .

I'm not sure this necessarily counts as a proper warning. He has a warning now from an impartial admin, so that should suffice. If he continues to upload the image he will be blocked.

Don't forget to sign your posts on talk pages by the way. --bainer (talk) 02:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

"Humourous"

Hi. I was interested that you reverted my edit to Robert Garran with the edit summary "not a spelling mistake - Australian English in Australian articles". I'd like to reassure you that I am entirely sensitive to national varieties of English, and that "humorous" is considered the correct spelling worldwide. The most recent occasion this was queried was at Talk:Cane Toad, and I think I was able to convince the objector on that occasion that this is correct (see User talk:Malkinann for details). Best wishes, and thanks for your interest. --Spellmaster 11:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

My mistake, I seem to have misread the diff as changing "humour" to "humor", and missed the "ous" :) I've changed it once again. I'm sure you know how it is when people see bot or AWB edits, there's a tendency to get parochial and revert without completely reading what the change is! For your reference, by the way, the typical standard for Australian English is the Macquarie Dictionary, and that gives "humorous" as expected (although some editions of the Collins Australian dictionary give either as acceptable) so that would be the reference to give other people. --bainer (talk) 15:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Indigenous Australians

Thank you for posting a suitable response to the KW mention. I couldn't think of anything meaningful to say in response to seeing a polemist being referred as a "good read". :P Orderinchaos78 ^(t|c) 14:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I've blanked it all anyway after finding where those quotes come from. As I said on the talk page, I think it's safe to simply remove further comments if they cannot provide anything beyond that material. I don't like to completely dismiss users, but they've shown an unwillingness to engage in a discussion about the reliability of sources and simply continue to post more of the same material. --bainer (talk) 14:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw that. And I agree - the person had a very arrogant attitude with regards to the enforcement of their own views, regardless of the fact they didn't even sign half their posts or used an IP: "wasn't discussed to my satisfaction, I'll certainly bring that back. And I'll keep on bringing it back too." Most sections I work on are not nearly this controversial :) Orderinchaos78 ^(t|c) 15:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Geez, they don't give up. And they've in the meantime created Walter Roth and edited it as both Premier and IP address. While I've got no objection to such an article existing, the reason for its creation appears to be to further his(?) argument. Orderinchaos78 ^(t|c) 19:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

congrats on the 'sources'! (never thought i'd be amused by a n-nazi site) shld be more effective thn our attempts to rebut at least for other readers. on the persistance. reported him as sock, & he/they kindly used the ip i claimed is the sock on the roth page! so fingers crossed, just maybe... → bsnowball 10:34, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

guy with a grudge

You think that's Zordrac? I thought that Zordrac had a pretty consistent style, and this guy isn't following it. But then again, I think my sockpuppet-radar is a little out of whack lately. Zordrac did have a problem with Longhair, anyway. Hm. FreplySpang 01:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Zordrac was Internodeuser before he was Zordrac. Internodeuser was initially banned for legal threats (towards Longhair and others) during a dispute about Port Arthur massacre. I can't imagine how many vandals there are out there on Internode with a grudge against Longhair. Although all of Internodeuser's socks did eventually gravitate to the subject area which got him into trouble, which these haven't seemed to.

I just saw that Longhair himself thinks they are separate so that's ok. Internodeuser was never computer savvy enough to do something like open proxy vandalism, so he's probably right. --bainer (talk) 02:35, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Mate, check your history - I've just reverted your userpage from some nasty vandalism by a user who clearly takes issue with moderators.

cheers Sambo 12:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Indigenous Australians

How do you feel about moving this to Indigenous peoples of Australia? For one thing that's the name of the category the article is in. It also looks like the article discusses a collection of different peoples, so I think this title would be more appropriate. Let me know. Zarbat 05:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Many thanks for your immediate action. huongthao 00:31, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

No worries. --bainer (talk) 06:28, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Just what is it? - John McHale again

As I do not want to interfere with your handling of OTRS complaints I would like to inform you about this message by Rory55 at my talk page. Mayby you could have another word with this editor as I just could point him to edit the articles guided by the policies you mentioned in your message to me and to seek prior consensus for controversial edits at the articles talkpages. Thank you! --VirtualDelight 22:27, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Request

Hi Bainer. My FAC for Ian Thorpe appears to have hit a snag, in which Tony has discovered deficiencise in my writing style. He asked that I find a fresh set of eyes to check the rewritten prose. Since you have some peripheral interest...may I request your analysis please? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Catera & Ziggy, etc.

The image in question was widely circulated by General Motors in conjuction with the Catera launch campaign - CateraOwners is simply the source. It was a promotional image, and the Catera advertising launch campaign is one of note for its largesse, etc. That was the reason for the image supporting the copy and link. What would have to be done to make it sufficient?

And more importantly, have you reviewed the dozens of images I've added and now marked for CSD including CD covers and images I spent hours obtaining and modifying directly from musicians for use on here? Do they meet the standard you set? I began adding images to pages, with considerable care, I thought, to be certain I was using either original images or those from press kits or clear promotional sources - There is a section on using publicity photos that says they should usually not be an issue, etc. I followed the examples on pages I was editing copy for that used images already, as well as trying to read and understand the various fair use criteria offered. I have not added images to any number of pages I've wished to because I couldn't find a clearly free promotional image, and in some cases I have spent considerable time and effort to obtain images directly from the artist. I will look for your comments - thank you. Tvccs 15:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

In terms of the source, you need to clearly state where the image came from. It doesn't necessarily need to be an online source. If it's a promotional image, then you can give some information about the press release, press pack or advertising material that it came from, such as the date of issue and information about the author and copyright holder.

In terms of providing a fair use rationale, there is some explanation at Help:Image page#Fair use rationale. Basically, for each use of the image (for each article it is used in), you need to provide a rationale explaining why you think that use is fair use. To get you started, see Wikipedia:Fair use, and the article fair use, which has a good description of the four main factors in determining fair use.

I don't know what other images you are referring to, although glancing at your talk page I suspect it is the same problem with all of them, namely lack of source information and lack of a fair use rationale. --bainer (talk) 08:00, 29 November 2006 (UTC)