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== Map, Languages and Capital (2) ==

There were previously two rather huge paragraphs which discussed the borders of Black country with different definitions. I am not from the area, but I identified three different definitions from the original text:

* The deep and shallow coal definition (wide definition)
* The cultural and industrial definition (wider definition)
* The shallow and outcropping coal definition (narrow definition)

Is this correct?

I have organized the border discussion into a seperate section. The two paragraphs are merged together and duplicate information is removed. There were no citations in the old text, and Ḯ've added citation needed everywhere to state this.

Since the old text was very poorly written and almost impossible to understand, the rewrite may not mirror the original intention of the authors. I welcome others to correct the text, at least it's now possible to read it.

[[User:Atlesn|Atlesn]] ([[User talk:Atlesn|talk]]) 17:29, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

:N MOSS (ADDENDA) 3/4/16
:In answering this question, there are several very important historic facts to consider, that even the Black Country Society, :with a clear Dudley bias, seem to ignore.

:1) There is no evidence that the Black Country was actually solely defined by the existence of the thick coal seam (as per the Black Country Society), even if it was uniquely thick in parts. It had been mined for up to 500 years in the area before we know the term "Black Country" evolved. Furthermore, the bulk of teh thick seam actually went off to teh domestic market in Birmingham, as it was too crystalline in nature to use for smelting purposes in the iron works. The thick seam west of Dudley was more adaptable however. But the thin seams of coal were critical for the iron works.
:2) The deeper coal field such as at pits at Jubilee, Hampstead, Sandwell Park, Baggeridge, certainly had nothing to do with defining the 'original Black Country'. These deeper operations merely represent a continuation of the mining industry around its geographical edge, but the Black Country was characterised by shallow pits that were quickly mined and abandoned.
:3) The term 'Black Country' that we know evolved roughly around 1830-1840 actually coincided with the establishment of the Iron Industry during the peak Industrial Revolution period 1830-40. Although reliant on coal to fuel the blast furnaces, it was the workings of the Iron Industry that chiefly made this area what it is today. H.C Derby in 1851 highlighted that of all the English districts where coal and iron were produced and used, the Black Country was only the 3rd highest producer of coal but the top producer of Iron. The term 'Black Country' only emerged once the Iron Industry established itself on a large scale, with the blast furnaces and countless chimneys turning the ground and atmosphere black.
:4) It is evident that it was never referred to as "The Black Country" due to coal-mining alone, or due to the effect of coal-mining alone. Only once the Iron Industry established itself, was the area so-called.
:5) It might justifiably be argued that both the coal and iron industry defined the Black Country, but certainly not Coal in isolation.

:The Black Country Borders.

:N MOSS ADDENDA 3/4/16
<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:62.232.224.48|62.232.224.48]] ([[User talk:62.232.224.48#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/62.232.224.48|contribs]]) 10:58, 4 April 2016 (UTC)</small>


:::"Today, the Black Country Society definition (or the Dudley definition) is contradictory, trying to argue that it should be defined purely by the existence of the thick coal seam, irrespective of its depth. Though it also includes other districts because they contributed significantly through iron works etc.

:::I have already shown that the Black Country, when it actually existed, was thought to have been based primarily on the Iron Industry but working in conjunction with the Coal Industry. Which ever stance you take clearly fundamentally affects its borders.

:::It is rarely highlighted for example, that a man with local knowledge - Samuel Griffiths (Bilston-born to West Bromwich parents), in his 1872 book of the Iron Trade in the UK, highlighted that "Wolverhampton was the Capital of the Black Country" as well as "The Capital of the Iron Trade in The Black Country".

:::Another writer, Samuel Sidney, is misquoted in the main text, but he along with other mid-1800's writers William White and Elihu Burritt all considered Wolverhampton to be a key Black Country town. Some of these writers went to the elevated position of Dudley Castle, to observe the Black Country, and White for example noted that the "darkest area of smoke lay over Wolverhampton".

:::The Black Country Society, who restrict the Black Country to a relatively small geographical zone based on the thick coal seam, often highlight that the first written record of the term 'Black Country' was made by William Gresley in 1846, where he stated "the area commonly known as the Black Country" implying that the term was already then in use. But they tend to ignore the fact that he also stated in his same book, that the Black Country was 20 miles long, which would 'inevitably' thus include Wolverhampton at the northern end.

:::Furthermore, even if the Black Country Society "thick coal seam" definition is accepted, they wrongly exclude Wolverhampton. Some of the thick coal seam was mined at Wolverhampton coal mines such as Chillington Colliery, Monmore Green Colliery, Rough Hills Colliery, Parkfields Colliery, Ettingshall Colliery, Stow Heath Colliery, and Moorfields Colliery where the seam was noted to be 14 metres thick.

:::According to most 1800's writers (as opposed to late 1900's writers who are looking at the history of the area non-contemporaneously), the Black Country core area was Wolverhampton through to Bilston, Willenhall, Tipton, Wednesbury and just touching the north-east corner of West Bromwich. A second zone was around Brierley Hill.

:::END
:::<!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:62.232.224.48|62.232.224.48]] ([[User talk:62.232.224.48#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/62.232.224.48|contribs]]) 10:58, 4 April 2016 (UTC)</small>


== External links modified ==
== External links modified ==

Revision as of 07:37, 13 January 2020

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Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 08:55, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed this and updated the Arts Council ref to a pdf that includes the Designation. Tony Holkham (Talk) 13:06, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dialect & Accent

"Locals pronounce "Birmingham" as "Brummajem"." - I live in the Black Country and can assure you that no-one calls Birmingham that. 'Brummagem' is an archaic name for Birmingham, but in 30 years I've heard no-one, no matter how old & deep-dialect speaker, call it that. 'Birningham' is quite common though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.224.102.192 (talk) 11:13, 18 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of people talk of going to "Brum" though. Solatiumz (talk) 16:01, 12 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've called it Brummajum most my life 93.129.28.68 (talk) 09:24, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Black Country. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:30, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Black Country Geopark

I've added some lines on the aspiring Black Country Geopark at the end of the 'Economy' section since the geopark designation is primarily one associated with developing the tourism economy, though the detail could go in various places in the article really as it brings together different aspects of the area's geology and industrial/cultural heritage. cheers Geopersona (talk) 19:15, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Black Country may not have included Dudley

"implying that the original Black Country may not have included Dudley which was in Worcestershire" this is speculation (WP:OR) and probably WP:POINTY. As any one familiar with the old county boarders knows Dudley was an island of Worcestershire in Staffordshire (see the maps in Evolution of Worcestershire county boundaries since 1844#Exclaves and enclaves) so as he was writing a novel he maynot have wished to go into the minutiae of county enclaves in the an introcuction in a novel. Further the Gresley quote can be read as the story takes place in that part of the Black Country in Staffordshire and that does not mean that some of the Black Country did not extend to parts of Worcestershire.

The novel starts on page one with:

On the border of the agricultural part of Staffordshire, just before you enter the dismal region of mines and forges, commonly called the "Black Country", stands the pretty village of Oakthorpe.

On page 26 of the novel Emily, who is visiting Oakthorpe is concerned that the red glow that can be seen in the evening on the horizon are hay ricks burning. Mr Evered explains that it is the glow from furnaces and suggests a visit to Dudley Castle to take in the sights.

  • Gresley, William (1846). Colton Green, a tale of the black country. J. Masters. p. 26.

So I am removing the speculation. -- PBS (talk) 19:22, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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