Talk:Sasha Grey

Template:Vital article

Adult and atheist categories

Four adult categories were unclear, and I removed them "immediately" (= years too late) per policy. Are former porn stars supposed to be categorized like active actresses, or does that make no sense? This must be some solved problem, I just don't know what the solution was, and where it is documented, e.g., not in Category:American pornographic film actresses.

Next issue, assuming that one category is okay, which should it be? Is "bisexual" better—in a cybernetical sense, least loss of information—than "American"? For "pornographic film actors from California" I'd assume that it's better than "American pornographic film actresses", a small loss for the gender info vs. a huge win for the location.

After that it gets bizarre, not unusual in the Fields of Grey, is "LGBT adult models" better than "American female adult models", and why on earth do these rotten cats try to mix four unrelated concepts (occupation, location, gender, sexual preferences)? Categories for cinéastes, vinyl collectors, or industrial musicians would be far more interesting than this ex-job/geo/sex mash-up.

I've also replaced two "atheist" categories by one "existentialist" category. Nobody knows if she's an atheist (as in "no god or goddess at all"), a part-time atheist (as in "still praying occasionally"), or even belongs to Category:Christian existentialists, but I know that BLP-cats are no BS-bingo for best OR-guesses. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 19:08, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Commons OVERcat

Ditto, two LGBT cats retired, covered by two corresponding bisexual categories, the locations (CA or US) are also covered in other cats. –84.46.52.142 (talk) 01:14, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

@Steam5: Your edit summary Please don't remove the categories, This is for her nationality and the occupations makes no sense for me, the B in Bisexual is the same as in LGBT, the former is a proper subset of the latter (aka "sharper"). We have twelve American and five California categories for the nationality, and as noted above two occupations (musician and writer) are already covered by two corresponding sharper Bisexual categories.
If what you want is some verbatim "United States" in the categories, maybe because "American" could be unclear, it's not done, almost all subcats of Category:United States use "American" or the name of the state, e.g., "Actresses from California" => "Women in California" => "California society" => "Society of the Western United States".
If you think that "California" could be unclear, we can move Sasha Grey down to "Actresses from the Greater Los Angeles Area‎", that's not Mexico. Ditto for other American/Californian categories. What we definitely do not need are LGBT categories to get a U.S. nationality. –84.46.53.140 (talk) 12:33, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

@Steam5: 3rd opinion invited: –84.46.53.175 (talk) 23:35, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

The request made at Third Opinion has been removed (i.e. declined). Like all other moderated content dispute resolution venues at Wikipedia, Third Opinion requires thorough talk page discussion before seeking assistance. If an editor will not discuss, consider the recommendations which are made here. — TransporterMan (TALK) 13:49, 30 April 2019 (UTC) This is an informational posting only and I am not watching this page; contact me on my user talk page if you wish to communicate with me about this.

@TransporterMan: A discussion consisting of an edit summary and a reply on the talk page is thorough enough, it only needs some expert 3rd party input to get a 2:1 rough consensus.
The WP:DISCFAIL essay is apparently a recipe how to drag unwilling users to WP:ANI, maybe helpful for "hot" disputes, because users trying to follow it would be forced to "cool" down. But here folks—maybe it's "only me"—simply don't know how to clean-up BLP categories. –84.46.52.129 (talk) 00:24, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

I've downgraded WP:3O to "bogus time waster" for now. Related is⁠sue: #enwiki cats, a never-ending story. –84.46.53.216 (talk) 19:48, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Some months later, this is enwiki, they have a rule for everything, I didn't know WP:BLPCAT:

Categories regarding religious beliefs (or lack of such) or sexual orientation should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief (or lack of such) or orientation in question, and the subject's beliefs or sexual orientation are relevant to their public life or notability, according to reliable published sources.

–84.46.53.211 (talk) 18:49, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I've removed Category:Bisexual twitch personalities from Los Angeles and Category:LGBT coffee junkies from California, please don't re-insert the cats before the GA2 review. –84.46.53.211 (talk) 00:24, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

@97.113.153.35: The possible BLP vandalism tag is added by an algorithm, the undo was about the missing consensus for your edit. I've reset it again, "narrow" is not always better, clearly she was not only a porn actress. –84.46.53.86 (talk) 08:05, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

I also didn't know WP:DUPCAT and the mysteries of non-diffusing subcategories. It means that Category:21st-century American women musicians in addition to Category:21st-century American musicians is not a bug. It also means that enwiki is crazy, but that's no news for me. –84.46.52.214 (talk) 05:05, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Fallout

ToDo: Find a RS for the Consequences of Love in Mission: Impossible – Fallout, cf. M:I - Fallout - Nightclub Song BASS REMIX on YouTube. Maybe simplify the current convoluted allmusic reference credits with [1] (2016). –84.46.53.188 (talk) 13:26, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

EL2REF Vice done. If you plan to see her in the former Denver city hall check out their dress code, no refunds. –84.46.52.110 (talk) 08:14, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

DJ Harvey at Grand Palais added. The source what-song.com is used in more than 20 articles and lists Consequences of love.

Resolved

 – 84.46.52.129 (talk) 12:03, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

WayBack fun stuff

WayBack archived Grey's myspace incl. her blog.^[2] An enwiki spam block hates the blog-URLs, but it's nice to X-check some facts,^[3] rescue DP pictures, etc. On this here unusable blog I found the French indie film "life" (2009), removed here, because no RS existed. Photos showing that she helped to design some sex toys also exist, the meanwhile removed "toy awards" were no complete BS. –84.46.52.237 (talk) 17:48, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

There are at least 8 "Attack of the Show" G4TV clips with Sasha Grey on WayBack. –84.46.52.192 (talk) 14:13, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Exactly 11, two already covered by older YouTube uploads. While at it I've "un-archived" the complete set, and "upgraded" three "HD FLV" (Flash video VP6 codec) to WebM (VP8). Two trailers in these Attack of the Show! videos might be interesting (GFE + Saints Row: The Third), and the Sexpo videos are funny, but sadly WayBack doesn't have the two hours G4 documentary at IMDb. –84.46.53.163 (talk) 17:50, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Obscure info, "LA factory girls" had an email address (maybe not as dead as Google+), Grey Art LLC founded by Sasha Grey Inc. and Low Art LLC had an address, there's an odd discogs entry for Sasha Grey Inc. as record label for a German audio edition of The Juliette Society, a TJS Tumblr, a web domain for a 2009 Grey Art adult film project still redirected to sashagrey.com, and a fresh Sasha Grey™ for fashion.^[4] –84.46.52.167 (talk) 10:31, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Sasha Grey Inc.  should be mentioned in the article, maybe with the ™ info as source, but I'm not sure where it fits: The intro of #Career is exclusively about 2006…2009, the #Background is actually #Early life—maybe that section should be renamed—and #Personal life is unsuited for business info.
Adding it to #Modeling could work, near the Allure interview 2018, because the ™ source covers 2006…2017, but at the moment I'm lost how to put this into one short English statement. –84.46.53.163 (talk) 18:34, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

 – on d:Q2709 and noted in d:Talk:Q2709#Name. –84.46.52.197 (talk) 07:24, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Missing stuff

Apparently (found in "unarchived" AOTS G4TV videos) she hosted Sexpo Australia in 2009, and was a or the keynote speaker at AEE in 2010. –84.46.52.192 (talk) 14:20, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Sexpo fixed here and there, the page was almost killed by a clever vandal. –84.46.52.92 (talk) 03:20, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Apart from the 2010 AVN award video she also said in a published interview that she was married (not only engaged) for some time,^[5] but I suggest to ignore this for now, we don't know when this happened, we can only guess (=OR based on one already disqualified TMZ article) when it ended, it's a rathole. –84.46.52.45 (talk) 17:27, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

So far I found only .cl/.pe/.ru sources for twitch.tv/SashaGreyStreams outside of her Twitter, not (yet) good enough to mention it on the page, maybe later, if some obvious RS reported it. –84.46.52.103 (talk) 02:07, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

It's now twitch.tv/SashaGrey and I fixed one video and one playlist description, fortunately nothing to do here so far. Next exercise (for me), figure out why she tries gaming instead of journalism. –84.46.53.116 (talk) 21:23, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Added to d:Q2709: Sasha Grey [@SashaGrey] (26 Jun 2019). "I'm not going live yet, but I will be live later on" (Tweet) – via Twitter.
–84.46.52.13 (talk) 14:43, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Is Twitch partner a "thing" on enwiki? For her nice Anna Karina memorial on Twitter I guess no.^[6] –84.46.52.63 (talk) 13:55, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

 Not done based on {{Infobox Twitch streamer}}, "partner" is no "thing", and so far this template doesn't tempt me to embed it here. –84.46.52.46 (talk) 14:44, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Influences

Should we start a section #Influences for topics like Keisha Grey or this? Please no #Legacy, it drives me mad. –84.46.53.102 (talk) 07:41, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

I wondered if she was an early adopter or even the inventor of postmodern feminism in 2011, a category recently added here (not by me). But the article says 1990, with the French sources (plausible for my favourite cinephile coffee junkie) going back to the 80s. Of course she stays in sex-positive feminists together with "bad feminist" Madonna.^[7] –84.46.53.116 (talk) 16:54, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Directly related series of five tweets,^[8] I always felt that "interpreting" her interview on this BLP was suspicious, quote: I was afraid of being labeled as a feminist, because I didn’t agree with many statements I saw. Later, I declared that I’m a post-modern feminist- this ain’t your grandma’s feminism. I still stand by this. –84.46.52.152 (talk) 14:53, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Raise your flag

FYI, GOCE request, the last missing issue for the 2nd GA nomination. NP Björk, Declare Independence (listen on YouTube.) –84.46.53.150 (talk) 06:30, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Updated N/A link to official YT, an obscure "one little indian" vs. Björk issue. –84.46.52.229 (talk) 03:20, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks to 50.36.82.55, finally some kind of 3O for the cats. –84.46.53.211 (talk) 11:37, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks to Baffle gab1978. I restored the Sex Week at Yale detail, because there was no other Sex Week at Yale after her appearance as expert. Three days ce, was it the size of this article, or should I be embarrassed? –84.46.53.211 (talk) 12:44, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Rough consensus "actress" matching the infobox occupation + WP:SHORTDESC + d:Q2709 + Talk:Sasha Grey/Archive 1#Model vs. writer. IP edits without edit summary should be summarily rejected. –84.46.53.211 (talk) 14:25, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Copy from #Pendu Sound Recordings, because the bot will archive this old section soon:

Updated status from 2018-12-09, old 43,870 bytes with  96 references, new 71,545 bytes with 153 references.

Updated status (since 12/09/18), was 43,870 bytes with 96 references, now 82,624 bytes with 185 references.

Let's see if that is now good enough, @Bilorv: renominated. –84.46.53.211 (talk) 15:02, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Black Licorice

If Black Licorice at IMDb is correct the red link China Test Girls on the page has to be fixed. It's definitely the same movie, IMDb has China Test Girls in the AKA section of its release notes. Not checking what happened here on this page in July today, but it is easy to guess with the red link: Thanks to the GOCE folks, I still plan a new GA attempt "soon".™ –84.46.52.37 (talk) 03:31, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

 – without reference.^[9] –84.46.53.211 (talk) 14:34, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

PH/insights/2018-year-in-review

At the moment the global PH spam block won't let me post an EL mentioning that Grey was their most searched for star in 2018 in three countries (and #5 in Italy) for 2018. I've started a WP:RS/N investigation required for a white list suggestion of those PH/insights on MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist. –84.46.53.211 (talk) 14:39, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Newslinger found a decent WP:42 source for this fun fact, if nobody objects I'll add that here later. –84.46.52.229 (talk) 02:42, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Tiny little mazes, all different: WT:P*#Pornhub Insights. –84.46.52.214 (talk) 03:36, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Forwarded to MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist#pornhub.com/insights, IIRC that's my second enwiki MediaWiki talk contribution after getting a decent target for RFC magic links on tools.ietf.org ~14 years ago. –84.46.52.84 (talk) 05:12, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Obscure "blpo" lists

Grey is listed on various more or less obscure lists, not all of them wikilinked in the article. It's a BLP policy issue if these lists contain obsolete claims such as "pornographic actress" (skipping the general "actress") or atheist (instead of the far better sourced "existentialist", which is no proper subset of "atheist"). I don't think that we should add all these lists to #See also. Maybe we can collect the known lists here:

• Sex symbols
• Gay, lesbian or bisexual
• Bisexual people (G–M)
• Porn performers by decade
• Crossover
• Penthouse Pets
• Playboy 2000–2009
• Playboy 2010-2019
• Celebrities on Entourage
• Premature obituaries
• Bernie Sanders 2016
• People from California
• Polish Americans
• Greek Americans
• Irish Americans
• Irish American actors
• Irish American musician
• English Americans

As "DEnglish" contributor I'm amazed how enwiki ignores various "lessons learned from 1933-45". –84.46.53.107 (talk) 18:04, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

updated 84.46.52.205 (talk) 09:05, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

sorted 84.46.52.173 (talk) 17:53, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

+pets 84.46.52.170 (talk) 00:22, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

updated 84.46.52.225 (talk) 11:35, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Layout

The layout of this article sucks, ten or more h2 sections are a red flag for me, at the moment we are at eleven h2 sections. The unclear #Background h2 could be an #Early life h3 in a new #Life h2 together with the #Personal life (as is, h3 instead of h2) and the #Activism (h3 as is, but not under #Career).
The unclear #Media Recognition h3 under #Career h2 could belong to the #Reception h2, but actually it is about her 2006…2011 career as porn star, maybe this section should be renamed to #Adult industry, after all she was not only a porn star in this period, but also a director, and founded at least one model agency LA factory girls. –84.46.52.173 (talk) 16:58, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

"Background" renamed to #Early life as on many BLPs: This small step does not solve the "eleven h2" issue. –84.46.53.116 (talk) 16:29, 20 January 2020 (UTC)