Talk:2020 Calabasas helicopter crash

Merge into Kobe Bryant?

Does this really need a separate article? Simeon (talk) 21:14, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Support merge: I agree, this doesn’t need its own article as most celebrity deaths don’t. — MarkH₂₁^talk 21:17, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

WP:BOLDly making a redirect. His death is not really independently notable. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:19, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Bryant was very notable and this crash included others than just him. There will likely be an investigation into this tragedy too. It will get bogged down in his article. I'd say it its own event not just his death. The article also meets WP:GNG. HC7^{Leave me a message!} 21:19, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

If so many unusual details emerge from the investigation that the section becomes cumbersome, then split it off into its own article. There may not be a need for more than two or three paragraphs in the future, and there isn’t a need for a separate article with the information available right now. — MarkH₂₁^talk 21:24, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Agree with merge, in part. This incident may be notable regarding the accident only. For example, if you search for "Death of Ted Stevens", you are redirected to 2010 Alaska DHC-3 Otter crash. In the latter case, there also 5 deaths, including one famous person. I would support an article about the crash, but not his death.Juneau Mike (talk) 21:25, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

That crash had three notable people involved in total, so there’s no case for leaving it within a single existing article unlike this accident. — MarkH₂₁^talk 21:27, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose It was an unusual and notable death. princess Diana has her own death page, and she died in a vehicle crash as well. ~ HAL333 21:24, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

What made Diana's crash notable was the conspiracy theories and such around it. Also, she was a princess... EvergreenFir (talk) 21:27, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Definitely notable. The internet crashed. Even ignoring the helicopter, the reaction alone is notable. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 21:25, 26 January 2020 (UT

Perhaps once RS coverage of the reaction as a separate cultural phenomenon emerges. It’s too soon at the moment to need to split the section off. — MarkH₂₁^talk 21:29, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Strong oppose, see Death of David Bowie. Certain celebrity deaths are notable enough for their own article. CatcherStorm ^talk 21:29, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Only when RS coverage of the reaction as a separate cultural phenomenon emerges. There’s no current need to split the section off. — MarkH₂₁^talk 21:29, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Along with my previous statement I think that it should be renamed to 2020 Calabasas Helicopter Crash, similar to what Juneau Mike said.HC7^{Leave me a message!} 21:31, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. Apparently it's not the circumstances around his death that are notable; rather, it is the fact that he died. However, Bryant is very notable, and considering that more major details about his death are being reported minute-by-minute, and the fact that multiple memorials and tributes to him will probably be held, I cannot see a reason for why this should be merged into the main article--if there is a consensus for a merge, it will be far too long for that by the time that it is merged. | abequinn^fourteen 21:29, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Agree per MarkH21. The helicopter crash is currently only notable for Bryant's death, which could be included in Kobe_Bryant#Death. With respect to the comparison to 2010 Alaska DHC-3 Otter crash, this flight also carried at least three notable people, two of whom did not die. userdude 21:33, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

@MarkH21: When Bowie died I redirected the page to David Bowie#Death. Let's be realistic here, this is almost certainly going to be heavily covered for the next month at least. CatcherStorm ^talk 21:34, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is a major tragedy for not just the NBA, but basketball as a whole. ImYourTurboLover (talk) 21:35, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Lots of celebrities have died prematurely but not each one has its own article. The circumstances of the crash will dictate the notability of this incident, not just the fact that Kobe died. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 21:36, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Support merge No need for a content fork when there's only a few sentences worth of content to be forked. Surachit (talk) 21:38, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose merge at this time. Allow the many updates about the crash that will follow in the next week or so to be handled here. Once the flow of new content ebbs, re-raise the question. Dmoore5556 (talk) 21:41, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

 Comment: Agreed, once more information comes out it would be better to re-discuss the merger. HC7^{Leave me a message!} 21:43, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Comment Someone created an article for the crash titled 2020 Island Express Sikorsky S-76B crash. I don’t see the need for both this article and that article. At the very least, they should be merged. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:49, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose merge to Kobe Bryant, support merge to the 2020 Island Express helicopter article I think it would be more fitting if this would be merged with the article about the helicopter crash. This is reminiscent of what happened to Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha who died in the 2018 Leicester helicopter crash. Vida0007 (talk) 21:52, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Support Merge There's a second and even more unnecessary article about the crash. Yes, he was an NBA legend, but his death does not warrant two separate articles about the topic. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 21:54, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
• Speedy Support Come on children, you don't need to make a separate article the moment something happens, and certainly not a third one for the crash. Zero justification for the split. Reywas92^Talk 22:03, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose merge to Kobe Bryant, support merge to 2020 Island Express Sikorsky S-76B crash per Vida0007, and since Bryant wasn't the only casualty. Notable enough to warrant its own article, but not two. —Matthew - (talk) 22:01, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Merge. Not enough independent notability or content to warrant a split at this point. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 22:01, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Support Merge he was only a basketball player not an international superstar, royalty or a world leader so outside of the US he's not very notable at all. Also the article is only 2 paragraphs long so a new article is hardly necessary. 2A00:23C0:5F86:8C00:E436:DDED:497:476F (talk) 22:05, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposed Move

Template:Requested move

I propose we move it to 2020 Calabasas helicopter crash — Preceding unsigned comment added by HAL333 (talk • contribs) 21:28, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

That's even worse. The death is more notable than the crash itself. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:30, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

5 people died. There are wikipedia articles over random plane crashes much less notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HAL333 (talk • contribs) 21:31, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

It's only been an hour as well so of course it seems so far that the crash itself isn't as notable. But so far the death is notable and the crash will be notable for the death of Bryant and the aftermath. HC7^{Leave me a message!} 21:33, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Strongly agree, this is not just about Kobe, five people died. See 2019 English Channel Piper PA-46 crash and John F. Kennedy Jr. plane crash --François Calvaresi (talk) 21:33, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

See also 2018 Leicester helicopter crash

 Comment: The only reason the crash is being covered as it is is because Kobe died in it. CatcherStorm ^talk 21:36, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

 Comment: The crash would have been covered anyways, its just national headlines because Kobe died. It's Kobe's personal copter so it would have been covered quite a bit even if no one died and it was just the crash. HC7^{Leave me a message!} 21:40, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Note that I said "as it is". The media will be heavily covering the crash for a long foreseeable future, this isn't just another helicopter crash. Of course the media are going to cover a helicopter crash, but they will be covering it for a long time to come since Kobe died as a result. CatcherStorm ^talk 21:45, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

• Support merge: per WP:SNOW. This doesn’t need its own article, just a more-detailed section in his main article. (Heroeswithmetaphors) talk 21:43, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

WP:SNOW does not apply here. There are multiple people here opposing and supporting a merger. CatcherStorm ^talk 21:45, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Or perhaps 2020 Calabasas crash or Kobe Bryant helicopter crash ~ HAL333 21:46, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Strongly agree per François Calvaresi - Premeditated (talk) 21:47, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose move, as the current title is immediately recognizable, no benefit to obfuscating at this point in time. Dmoore5556 (talk) 21:48, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Comment, the title currently says "Death of Kobe Bryant" but the infobox says "Deaths: 5"; that's pretty confusing, I think it should either be included in the article that 4 others died or the title changed. Bluecrab2 (talk) 21:50, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Comment Someone already created an article for the crash titled 2020 Island Express Sikorsky S-76B crash. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:53, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

I feel like that is too wordy. ~ HAL333 22:02, 26 January 2020 (UTC)