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Dr.Bookman (talk | contribs)
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*'''Oppose''', hey I just wanna I oppose the decision to “change” the name, so I agree with Electron2.0, and I don’t really have much to share about my opinion necessarily. [[User:Jerry Steinfield|Jerry Steinfield]] ([[User talk:Jerry Steinfield|talk]]) 02:40, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''', hey I just wanna I oppose the decision to “change” the name, so I agree with Electron2.0, and I don’t really have much to share about my opinion necessarily. [[User:Jerry Steinfield|Jerry Steinfield]] ([[User talk:Jerry Steinfield|talk]]) 02:40, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Apart from rebranding consideration mentioned by others above, it is not at all certain that the Tokyo Olympics will actually take place in 2021. The games may still be pushed further back, to 2022, or cancelled altogether. Perhaps 6-8 months from now the issue of moving the title may be revisited again. [[User:Nsk92|Nsk92]] ([[User talk:Nsk92|talk]]) 14:21, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Apart from rebranding consideration mentioned by others above, it is not at all certain that the Tokyo Olympics will actually take place in 2021. The games may still be pushed further back, to 2022, or cancelled altogether. Perhaps 6-8 months from now the issue of moving the title may be revisited again. [[User:Nsk92|Nsk92]] ([[User talk:Nsk92|talk]]) 14:21, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' It was announced that it will be branded and marketed as Tokyo 2020, so it looks like it should be historically remembered as that. --[[User:Dr.Bookman|Dr.Bookman]] ([[User talk:Dr.Bookman|talk]]) 18:13, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


== Nominated for the main page at ITN ==
== Nominated for the main page at ITN ==

Revision as of 18:13, 27 March 2020

Template:Vital article



Just something neat found on the web. http://www.xs4all.nl/~fwb/hano2020.gif

Euro 2016 - Denmark

Here it says that Denmark is bidding for the Euro football championships with Sweeden in 2016, yet if we look at that page, it says that the Bid is Sweeden and Norway??? TJ 16/04/07 16.34 UTC

When searching for the 2020 Olympics, the search bar bit where it gives extra information about the event says it's hosted in Ombues de Lovalle. Is that a prank of some sort, or I am misunderstanding something?

Question regarding Surfing Qualification

I am not much connected with surfing in Wikipedia. But I created a surfing related article So Sri Lanka Pro 2019 as I noticed some Sri Lankan sources say it is also a qualification criteria for the upcoming 2020 Summer Olympics. However this is not an annual event as it is proposed to be conducted after 8 years. On the other hand, I heard about the participation of former world champion Mark Occhilupo who has now completely retired from the game for a long time. Also the website of global federation World Surf League mentioned this event as one of the international surfing events. However it didn't mention or specify anything about the Olympic Qualifications regarding this event. Can somebody please help me out on this issue?. Thanks. Abishe (talk) 03:18, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I looked into this. The So Sri Lanka Pro 2019 is part of the 2019 WSL Qualifying Series, which is part of the qualifying for the 2020 WSL Championship Tour. However, it is the *2019* Championship Tour which is an Olympic qualifying event, so the Sri Lanka event is not even an indirect qualifier for Tokyo 2020. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 14:14, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the maps and graphs of the qualification of athletes and participating NOCs

There are maps and graphs that count the recent athletes that have been qualified even though there are given numbers according to each of the articles of the participating NOCs. Same with the the countries that are participating. This is why these pictures and graphs of NOCs participating should be kept. SpinnerLaserz (talk) 16:26, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Recovery Olympics"

An unregistered IP has added Recovery Olympics to the opening paragraph as an alternative name for the 2020 Games. I've added in the citation that was provided in the edit summary. However, I'm not entirely sure this is the best place to put this information – how controversial/topical/political is it? Maybe we'd be best putting in a less prominent section lower down the article highlighting the relevance and background to the nickname? Rodney Baggins (talk) 09:44, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Recovery Olympics" in lead

A couple of days ago, User:yeungkahchun removed the alternative name "Recovery Olympics" from the lead but I put it back because it's been established for some time now so it's probably best to discuss it first. I understand that this alternative name may be controversial and I wonder if we should include it as a note rather than putting it up front in the first paragraph, which gives it the same emphasis as the more prominent names "2020 Summer Olympics", "Games of the XXXII Olympiad" and "Tokyo 2020". The note would read: "An alternative name for the 2020 Games is the Recovery Olympics (Fukkō Gorin (Japanese: 復興五輪), in reference to the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster recovery) + existing source. I also notice that the alternative name (and questions surrounding it) has not been included as a controversial aspect of the Olympics, when maybe it should? All available sources mention the fact that victims of the Fukushima disaster are being overlooked and resent the fact that the government are spending so much money on the Olympics, etc. etc. Rodney Baggins (talk) 11:18, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, no response to this after 7 days so I'll go ahead and change as I see fit. My reasoning for this is that the name is possibly controversial, it's not in common use, and I feel that we should give it rather less emphasis than the more prominent names stated in the lead ("2020 Summer Olympics", "Games of the XXXII Olympiad" and "Tokyo 2020"). Rodney Baggins (talk) 14:10, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 21 March 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: WP:SNOW closed. Nohomersryan (talk) 00:46, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2020 Summer Olympics → Second Tokyo Summer Olympics – I've picked up evidence that they won't be until 2021. Georgia guy (talk) 17:59, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's looking very likely now that they will be postponing the event, but surely we need to wait until they've made a definite decision and made an announcement before we think about changing the title? Rodney Baggins (talk) 19:04, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That is the reason I am not proposing a move to 2021 Summer Olympics. Georgia guy (talk) 19:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The games have not yet been cancelled. This RM is very much in good faith, but premature. Randy Kryn (talk) 19:07, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – though there is now doubt about when or if these Olympics will take place, I haven't seen any sources referring to them with the suggested title. Keep it at "2020 Summer Olympics" for now, revisit if needed per Randy Kryn. —Granger (talk · contribs) 19:06, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - WP:TOOSOON. As for possible future scenarios, if the event is cancelled completely then the title may as well stand as it is. If the event is postponed (standing contracts with the IOC would allow the date to be moved to the end of 2020, but to no later than that[1]), the title would still stand. Moving to 2021 would require the contracts to be changed, and that's WP:CRYSTAL. I see no need for a move yet. Renerpho (talk) 20:33, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A crystal ball
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Adopting our language to the possibility of cancellation

When most of the text in this page was drafted, the occurrence of the games seemed a lot more sure than it does now. Phrases like "these will be the fourth Olympic Games to be held in Japan" at this point make me uncomfortable per WP:CRYSTAL, since while it's still more likely the games will take place in some form or just be postponed, there's a non-trivial possibility of outright cancellation. Can we change the language throughout to something more akin to "these are planned to be the fourth Olympic Games to be held in Japan"? Sdkb (talk) 06:27, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Skimming through the article, it looks okay to me. There is always a possibility of changes to future events; that was true six months ago and it is true now. Also, most of the "will" language is not about dates, so it should remain accurate even if the games are postponed. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:19, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Right now, cancellation isn't even "on the agenda" according to the IOC [2]. I think "planned to be" is implicit in "will be"; I don't think there's any need to change that specific wording at this time. Mz7 (talk) 23:44, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Request Title Change from 2020 Summer Olympics to 2021 Summer Olympics

The IOC is expected to postpone the 2020 Summer Olympics Games to 2021 and a title change and details should be updated Efuture2 (talk) 17:51, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Expected to" but have not yet. And it is not clear that 2021 will be where they end up (though it seems most likely). It's a little premature to change the title, though of course the text should include discussion. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 19:11, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We need to wait until official announcement. Dick Pound has said as much, but it's not yet official.— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 21:32, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Jonel, Crumpled Fire, Jonas kam, and ApprenticeFan: I earlier semi-protected this article. But given all the recent changes to the infobox by autoconfirmed users based on rumors, I am inclined to full-protect the article until there is an official announcement. You four seem to have been involved recently in keeping the article honest; do you think it should be locked? and if so, I wonder which version to protect: "July 24" or "TBD"? -- MelanieN (talk) 23:19, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It may have to be locked if the edits continue, and if so I would favor the "July 24" version as the status quo until we get an official proclamation.— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 23:52, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You got it. I'm going to lock it for 24 hours, I suspect that will be enough. When something definite comes out, ping me or anyone; I hereby authorize any other admin to unlock it as soon there is something definite to add. -- MelanieN (talk) 01:54, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

MelanieN confirmed delay. Starzoner (talk) 12:34, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Article will still be 2020 Summer Olympics despite being moved to 2021, no change or rename. Period. Example, Miss Universe 2016 was held in January 2017 that wasn't held on the entire calendar year of 2016. ApprenticeFan work 12:43, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. The Olympics will still be on its official name Games of the XXXII Olympiad and still entitled 2020 Tokyo Olympics along with the official postponement announcement. ApprenticeFan work 12:53, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tokyo 2020 postponed to 2021 announced on 24. March 2020 after a telefone call between the head of the IOC and the Prime minister of Japan

Source (in German): https://www.faz.net/aktuell/sport/sportpolitik/die-olympischen-spiele-werden-wegen-der-corona-krise-verschoben-16694140.html

Plenty of sources has this but they are all quoting the same thing: A veteran member of the committee talking about the phone call. Will the olympics be postponed? 100% yes. Can we update the article? Not until the IOC makes an official announcement. This has been wikipedia policy for a decade, come on guys. 176.231.6.101 (talk) 12:35, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What policy is that?Renerpho (talk) 02:53, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Protected edit request on 24 March 2020

Rewrite lead to indicate that the Games have been postponed to 2021, now confirmed. Indicate in body that the move was suggested by Japan, and today agreed by the IOC. Sourced to "Tokyo 2020: Olympic Games organisers 'agree postponement'". BBC Sport. March 24, 2020. Retrieved March 24, 2020.

This comes before discussion of and without considering a page move to '2021'.

...is an upcoming international multi-sport event originally scheduled to take place from 24 July to 9 August 2020 in Tokyo, Japan, with preliminary events in some sports beginning on 22 July. → is an upcoming international multi-sport event originally scheduled to take place from 24 July to 9 August 2020 in Tokyo, Japan. Due to the 2020 coronavirus pandemic, it will take place in 2021.

Cut the last paragraph of the lead, to be placed in a new section titled 'Postponement', above the current 'Concerns and controversies'. Kingsif (talk) 13:08, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Interstellarity (talk) 15:10, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 24 March 2020

2020 Summer Olympics → 2021 Summer Olympics – Games have officially been postponed to 2021. While the branding will remain as "Tokyo 2020", Wikipedia's current article name does not reflect the branding nor the locale — just "2020 Summer Olympics" — which is now unquestionably incorrect. I propose "2021 Summer Olympics" as the best alternative, but if there are other suggestions they should be discussed as well. Some possibilities would be "2021 Olympics" (as they may not 100% take place during summer), "Tokyo 2020" (to reflect the branding which will be retained), or "2021 Tokyo Olympics".— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 14:15, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I understand your comment. The games are being held in 2021, therefore they are no longer the "2020" Summer Olympics. Yes, the branding will remain as "Tokyo 2020" which I mentioned in my move request, but that is irrelevant to the move request as the current Wikipedia name doesn't reflect branding.— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 14:20, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
For example, a similar major sporting announcement a couple of days ago that UEFA Euro 2020 is now held in 2021 instead of 2020 as the branding still retain the name. 2020 Copa América also retain the same. ApprenticeFan work 14:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the examples, but notice for UEFA Euro 2020 in particular, that is the official name of the event, so I would support that title. I think since the Olympics are such an important and central event, we may not want to rely on other examples. Also, "2020 Summer Olympics" is not an official title, it's just a generic descriptor of the event along with the year it takes place, which is now incorrect. According to IOC, "It was also agreed that the Games will keep the name Olympic and Paralympic Games Tokyo 2020. That is not the title of our article here. Presumably the reason they are keeping the name is so they won't need to jettison "Tokyo 2020" and waste money creating new promo materials, but since we aren't using their official branded name here, our title is not relevant to the fact they aren't changing the branding.— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 14:30, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The IOC has officially confirmed that the Games will occur in 2021, stating that they will be "rescheduled to a date beyond 2020 but not later than summer 2021", so we know they will take place in 2021 just as much as we knew they would take place in 2020 when they were first announced and thus named accordingly as the "2020" Summer Olympics—this isn't anything to do with WP:CRYSTAL. When this article was first named 2020 Summer Olympics, it wasn't yet a "common name" because it wasn't "commonly" being called anything in 2005. It's simply a descriptive name of the event and the year in which it takes place, just like 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic, which is not a "common name" for that event by any stretch.— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 14:41, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Lol what. How does saying "event that occurs in 2021 will be referred to as the 2021 event" fall under WP:CRYSTAL? I swear that policy has lost all meaning now and is just thrown around randomly.  Nixinova   T   C   19:41, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This has nothing to do with how the media will refer to it. How many media outlets refer to the COVID-19 pandemic as "2019–20 coronavirus pandemic"? This has to do with the naming conventions at Wikipedia which involve listing the name of the event along with the year in which it takes place. We now know the Summer Olympics are taking place in 2021, not 2020. If we want to instead rename the article to "Tokyo 2020" to reflect branding, we can have that discussion.— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 14:44, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I agree as the title makes no reference to locale a move is appropriate Steven a91 (talk) 15:06, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose (at least until we know how the media will call the event in 2021). All Olympics are called "WXYZ Summer (or Winter) Olympics", with WXYZ being the year, because the Olympics were always held during the year when it was supposed to be held (apart from those that were cancelled altogether). We have never had a case where the Olympics Games were moved to another year, so we cannot predict how the media will call this special event which has no precedent. So to predict that the media will call it the "2021 Summer Olympics" is WP:CRYSTAL. The Wikipedia naming guideline also follows the same thought process, there is rarely any precedent for such a huge event to be delayed a year, so I don't think previous naming guideline is useful in this case. Chanheigeorge (talk) 15:12, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I fail to see how it was CRYSTAL to call it "2020 Summer Olympics" before today, because it was never anticipated that the Olympics would be delayed by a year, and the media had always used the name "WXYZ Summer Olympics" for the Olympics that is scheduled to be held in WXYZ. If some city decides to bid for the Summer Olympics in 2040, we can pretty safely says the media will write the headline "City bids for 2040 Summer Olympics". Again, we are dealing with a case which has never happened before, so to say that the media will definitely call it the "2021 Summer Olympics" because it is now scheduled to be held in 2021 is pure speculation. Just because the year it was scheduled to be held has been changed does not invalidate all the articles that had been written by the media in the past days/weeks/months/years, which all use the name "2020 Summer Olympics". Chanheigeorge (talk) 15:30, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think I slightly misread your comment. It was written by another editor (Crumpled Fire) not by you. But my general point remains, even the media is still calling it the "2020 Summer Olympics" after the schedule change announcement: "Tokyo 2020 Summer Olympics Officially Postponed Due To Coronavirus". [3] So until the media decides to call it the "2021 Summer Olympics", we should stick with the name. Chanheigeorge (talk) 15:47, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If possible, please read the above discussion. We already know they are keeping the branding "Tokyo 2020", they've said as much, but Wikipedia's article name does not reflect the branding they choose to use, it reflects the [YEAR] and [EVENT NAME] naming convention.— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 15:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Can our old naming conventions really be applied, though? We have never experienced this with huge sporting events like the Oympics or UEFA Euros. Let's at least wait and see what the media generally will call it? As WP:NCE says: "If there is an established, common name for an event, use that name." If possible, we should follow that... // Mattias321 (talk) 15:39, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Mattias321. The naming convention is pretty much based on all previous Olympics Games which were either held on schedule or cancelled altogether. This one is the first to be held in another year. So when the editors decided on the naming convention, it is unlikely that they anticipated such a special case, so I do not see why we should just blindly follow the convention without gathering more information from other sources (media, official name, general public sentiment etc). Just because it has been moved does not mean the media has now stopped calling it the "2020 Summer Olympics". I mean, do an internet news search, even those that are reporting on the schedule change are still calling it the "2020 Summer Olympics", using headlines such as "Tokyo 2020 Summer Olympics Officially Postponed Due To Coronavirus" [4]. If over time, the media decides in favor of calling this event the "2021 Summer Olympics", then yes we should move, but it is way too premature at this point. Chanheigeorge (talk) 15:44, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Really not sure why to keep it on 2020 Summer Olympics if it... isn't happening in 2020? aealtrus (talk) 15:27, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now, per the above. This is premature and we should wait until we know that the media refers to the Olympics as the "2021 Olympics". It doesn't matter that the name isn't accurate right now - if the name is only used by us, then it's the wrong name. I oppose "Tokyo 2020" too because it's not part of the WP:OLYMPICS naming convention. The outcome of this RM will also affect hundreds of other articles with "2020 Summer Olympics" in their names (for instance, just the pages in Category:Nations at the 2020 Summer Olympics and Category:2020 Summer Olympics events), so this should wait. epicgenius (talk) 15:29, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong opposse As mentioned in the introduction: "They will still be publicly marketed as the 2020 Summer Olympics, even with the change in scheduling." 31.201.130.50 (talk) 15:31, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Yes we all can see how odd it might look but, it doesn't matter what makes 'sense' or not here. "Tokyo 2020" might be still retained for branding convenience purposes, and it's nonsensical to change it here when the decision is up to the IOC. Wait and see what they say first, doubtless this will be confirmed later on. Sleath56 (talk) 15:36, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The official title for the games is still 2020.. regardless of when it actually takes place. Spanneraol (talk) 15:38, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, if the IOC is not renaming the games to 2021 olympic games we should not move this page. Stryn (talk) 15:43, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose: The Games will not be rebranded, and the name will remain the same, like UEFA Euro 2020—see here what we settled for in the talk. I read the word ridiculous from supporters of '2021': what is ridiculous to me is not to have a quadrennial competition called with a quadrennial name.
    P.S: The naming of the Games is consistent in all the pages of all other Olympiads: to me is blindly superficial to propose odd and unusual names in the pursuing of undue and unsustainable compromises. —Foghe (talk) 15:46, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment. The sports are not totally quadrennial. For just one spot, the Winter Olympics were biennial. And now we're in a spot where the Summer Olympics are quinquennial, not quadrennial. Georgia guy (talk) 15:52, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment Calling the name ridiculous and opposing a move should not be mutually exclusive. We can and do have articles under ridiculous names because that is how they are referred to in reliable sources. Changing your name to the name of an underwear company that paid you money is ridiculous, but we nevertheless have the article at Bruno Banani (luger), not Fuahea Semi (which is a redirect), since that's his name and how he's referred to in reliable sources. Smartyllama (talk) 16:42, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support If the Games are no longer taking place in 2020, there's no point in referring to them in that way. JohnMacTavish (talk) 15:50, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Extremely strong oppose. According to the Olympic Committee, the Games will still keep the same name even though it is delayed.[5] Pianostar9 (talk) 15:50, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please read the entire thread—the officially "Tokyo 2020" name being retained has already been addressed. Also, shouldn't newer votes go to the bottom of the page?— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 16:17, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Let's not move it yet. Let's wait until we get an official word from the IOC.—Bde1982 (talk) 15:55, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. Let's see if reliable sources change their terminology per WP:COMMONNAME. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:57, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now It would be stupid to call it the 2020 Summer Olympics when it's in 2021, but that's not our call to make. We just have to go by what is used elsewhere. If "it's a stupid name" alone were grounds for moving an article on a sporting event, then half of college (American) football bowl game articles would need to be moved. Smartyllama (talk) 16:37, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose now as premature per WP:COMMONNAME. 2020 Summer Olympics (or just 2020 Olympics) is overwhelmingly the common name now, also in today's news stories about the postponement. It may change but we don't know. When going to page 4, there are merely 33 Google hits on "2021 Summer Olympics" and nearly all are unreliable, duplicates or only mentioning it as a possible name. We have 335 articles, 85 categories and 52 templates with "2020 Summer Olympics" in the name. Mass moves will start quickly if we move the main article. Delay this chaos which may be reverted later and let's wait and see what becomes the common name. The redirect at 2021 Summer Olympics works fine. There is no rule an event must have its expected year in the title. Awards are often named for the year they are honoring and not taking place. This is a different situation but the 4-year cycle is so ingrained in the Olympics that I wouldn't be surprised if 2020 remains. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:40, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) Oppose for now – if it begins commonly going by "2021 Summer Olympics", then we can change it per WP:COMMONNAME. If the branding stays the same and everyone still refers to it as the "2020 Olympics" then I see no reason to change it. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:41, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not even worth a discussion Please consult the primary source, not your media outlet! Anyone who has been to college should know that. The Olympic Channel, owned by the IOC, clearly states that the name shall remain 2020. https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/stories/news/detail/tokyo-olympic-games-postponed-ioc/ --2001:16B8:3189:8E00:1B5:A1F6:E43A:E18B (talk) 16:47, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The amount of rude and insulting comments I'm getting here is getting ridiculous, and you really shouldn't be calling me uneducated when you can't even be bothered to read before commenting. I address the fact that the IOC is retaining the "Tokyo 2020" branding. Go read what has been said.— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 16:54, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It should be noted that this IP contributor has never contributed to Wikipedia other than this talk page, for this move discussion.— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 17:01, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, IOC has specified "no later than Summer 2021", but has also said "a date beyond 2020". This means a time between January and Fall 2021.— Crumpled Fire • contribs • 16:59, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I read that and must have selectively chosen to ignore it. The human brain is a strange thing. I have no opinion, striking oppose. Kees08 (Talk) 17:09, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Those 1940 Games also disqualify renaming to Second Tokyo Summer Olympics, since we'd have to agree whether the 1940 Games should be counted or not. Renerpho (talk) 19:00, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it would. This is an unprecedented and unanticipated situation. Maybe 2020 Summer Olympics (held 2021)? ― Дрейгорич / Dreigorich Talk 21:51, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's WP:CRYSTAL. We don't know if the games will be held in 2021. They are postponed to that date, but that's a different thing (especially with a matter as unpredictable as this pandemic). If the games are eventually cancelled, do you want to rename it to 2020 Summer Olympics (cancelled in 2021)?Renerpho (talk) 02:42, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the late reply. In that case, maybe such a move would be too rushed. ― Дрейгорич / Dreigorich Talk 21:58, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What other 3 years had Summer Olympics?? Georgia guy (talk) 20:50, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
1916, 1940, and 1944 were supposed to have Olympics, but they were canceled due to war (WWI for 1916, WWII for 1940 and 1944). Those are the missing 3 Olympics. 1779Days (talk) 20:59, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And 32 minus 3 is 29, so this is the 29th Summer Olympic games, right?? Georgia guy (talk) 21:02, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, the naming is screwed no matter which way we look at it. For now, the Games of the XXXII Olympiad may be the most neutral title, and that's what I propose. ― Дрейгорич / Dreigorich Talk 21:14, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Certainly, it is the most neutral title. But it is not the most commonly used title, it's used mainly for official purposes and otherwise it should be named whatever the media calls it. See 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic - really it should be called the COVID-19 pandemic, but it got closed down before more media outlets used COVID-19, and even then the internet calls it as coronavirus. RBolton123 (talk) 02:04, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. Rightly or wrongly, the IOC and all sources are calling it Tokyo 2020. If a time comes when people call it the 2021 Games, then we can revisit this discussion, but for now it's premature. Because we don't, for example, even know it will happen next year. Joseph2302 (talk) 21:31, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose due to the fact that it is too early to announce a rename without a decent discussion by the organisation first. Other events in the year has not had their pages moved from 2020... to 2021... either. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:37, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • OPPOSE This entire discussion, is STUPID!!! The IOC has already stated they will still be called the 2020 Summer Olympics, no matter when they are held. As for the guy who says XXIII Summer Olympics. The IOC still recognizes 1916 as the VIth Olympiad, & 1940, & 1944 as the XIIth, & XIIIth Olympiads respectively.Subman758 (talk) 21:38, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and propose Next Olympic Games. 2021 has been proposed, but it's way to early to know whether the pandemic will be over by then. jamacfarlane (talk) 21:40, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose For Now The UEFA Euro 2020 competition was postponed to 2021. That page has not been moved to Euro 2021, instead Euro 2021 redirects to the Euro 2020 page instead. For now, until official logos, branding, marketing, and other relevant Olympic material change to reflect the postponement to 2021, have the page 2021 Summer Olympics redirect to 2020 Summer Olympics. boldblazer 23:24, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppse Name has not changed, like the case of Euro 2020. I was the person who change the 2021 Summer Olympics page to a redirect. SYSS Mouse (talk) 01:12, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Really???? The 2020 Summer Olympics in 2021????? Someone Not Awful (talk) 01:21, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose - I was going to support this at first, but now I think otherwise. Until the branding changes to 2021 and the media say it's 2021 and the internet calls it 2021 (the last one, not really), it should be called 2020. RBolton123 (talk) 02:04, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Proposal Keep the 2020 summer Olympics and create the 2021 summer Olympics, which is used to Redirect the former.In the text, it explains that although the games are called the 2020 summer games, they will be held in 2021.——SIX?|是perfect | ！ 02:47, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment 2021 Summer Olympics already redirects here.Renerpho (talk) 02:50, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This seems a healthy candidate for WP:IGNOREALLRULES. In this case we could go with a WP:COMMON exception, which contains this often forgotten tidbit (boldface is in the actual text): Why isn't "use common sense" an official policy? "It doesn't need to be; as a fundamental principle, it is above any policy." Above any policy. Including the sourcing policy. As we stand now, almost everyone is using the sourcing policy as proof-positive that Wikipedia should continue to knowingly and incorrectly title a page. The title is presently 2020 Summer Olympics. But even the sources say no, these Summer Olympics will not occur in the summer of 2020. Bottom line, the 2020 Summer Olympics do not exist anymore. The next Summer Olympics will occur in the Summer of 2021. If it takes invoking WP:COMMON to recognize that fact then that's what could be applied by the closer, which is a rare occurrence indeed and I have no idea why. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:59, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Users very often disagree what is common sense. Closers shouldn't be allowed to basically ignore the whole discussion and just say "I do whatever seems most sensible to me." Wikipedia works by consensus. And in this discussion, I think a lot of us who cite WP:COMMONNAME would still support using the common name and year in the official name as the most sensible to us even if there wasn't a policy about it. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:28, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:CONS, consensus, is a policy. So WP:COMMON would apply in ignoring that policy as well. If calling a major 2021 event a 2020 event is acceptable by the closer, fine, but giving the closer another option seems reasonable. I'd personally change this title in a second, it's unnatural, incorrect, and has become misleading. Wikipedia shouldn't put any of those things above common sense accuracy. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:44, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Bottom line, the 2020 Summer Olympics do not exist anymore. The next Summer Olympics will occur in the Summer of 2021. How do you know that? The organisers have said they want to hold them in 2021 - the same people that for weeks insisted they would go ahead in 2020 without any trouble. I think until a new WP:COMMONNAME emerges, we need to stick with the 2020 Olympics. They've also raised the possibility of holding them in the spring. We don't want to be having a debate every 6 months or so over whether we should change them to the 2022 Spring Olmpics, then 2022 Summer, 2023 Spring, etc. Olympics. jamacfarlane (talk) 19:27, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment The statement from the IOC and the Tokyo organizers is that the phrase "Tokyo 2020" will still be officially used, not that "2020 Summer Olympics" is the official name (I'm not sure if it even was in the first place). Use of the name "2021 Olympics" is therefore reasonable given the this IS an Olympics that takes place in 2021. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.184.63.162 (talk) 03:45, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment The IOC statement reads: It was also agreed that the Games will keep the name Olympic and Paralympic Games Tokyo 2020.[7] The official name is (and always was) "Games of the XXXII Olympiad", but I believe there is general agreement that we won't rename the article to that but I don't see consensus to rename it to that. So the question is, do we go with what the IOC and the Japanese government have agreed to, or do we use something else?Renerpho (talk) 04:14, 25 March 2020 (UTC) Struck and rephrased, as there is a proposal that goes against what I claimed.Renerpho (talk) 04:19, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. We should use whatever name is common by then, and we do not know what it is yet. Ythlev (talk) 05:55, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Wikipedia does not create news; it presents facts in an abundantly cautious way, or should. No one else is calling them the "2021 Olympics" yet. What we do know is that the branding "Tokyo 2020" will be kept despite the year change. Why would we change the name before all the facts are known, and the games themselves haven't announced a name change? That's not what Wikipedia is about. Moncrief (talk) 06:37, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Those in support of this page move are making the inference that the next Summer Olympics will occur in the Summer of 2021. (as stated by Randy Kryn above). Yes, we have been told by the IOC that the Games will be held "by the summer of 2021", but Thomas Bach said on the BBC News today that there was a possibility they could be arranged for as early as the spring of 2021, so as I already jested in my Oppose vote above: should we then retitle this article 2021 Spring Olympics? The rescheduling has not yet been set in stone and until the IOC have announced the new dates (which might not be for some time), we're not in a position to rename the article. Rodney Baggins (talk) 22:18, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Good point, since Spring remains an option. Yet the present title still contains inaccuracy. 2021 Olympics might provide a placeholder until the matter becomes clearer. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:04, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe, once we know for sure, we can change the name to 2021 Summer Olympics. But it will not be moved to 2021 Spring Olympics. Olympics can be either summer or winter, and Summer Olympics have different sports than Winter Olympics. Maybe I wouldn't mind if we kept the title now. But once we know, for sure, that it's taking place in 2021, we must move this page. If we call it the 2020 Summer Olympics if it's really in 2021, that would be factually inaccurate. Also, seasons aren't as well defined as years are — see the summer article for all the various definitions of summer. "Tokyo 2020" is just a trademark, and we should go by the factually correct name instead of the "official" name. (Summer and Winter Olympics are differentiated by the sports involved.) Sanjay7373 (talk) 05:59, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's an excellent point Sanjay, the word "Summer" is key to the definition of the event and the sports contained in it, so we do certainly need to call it "[something] Summer Olympics". The summer games have been held in the autumn on several occasions, and after all, it's winter in the southern hemisphere when it's summer up here anyway, so "summer" is just a referential label. However, I still oppose an immediate move as I think we need to let the dust settle first and wait for the IOC and media to start referring to them as the "2021 Summer Olympics". And we can't be certain that that will happen as they may prefer to keep the general title in line with the branding anyway. Rodney Baggins (talk) 10:14, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Sorry for disturbing local community. I'm from zhwiki and not very familiar with local policy so I do not put my vote here. I just put a link from CNN, where they use '2020 Summer Olypics' after the game has been postponed, for your reference.-- Hamish Welcome 21:52, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose — I may seem a bit of a Cassandra, but we do not yet know whether it will be possible to hold the Olympics in 2021; depending on how successfully the world battles the COVID-19 pandemic over the next several months — a crisis which may eventually result in a catastrophic loss of lives comparable to the two World Wars — the Olympics may have to be rescheduled again to 2022 or later. It would seem unwise to potentially be discussing a second renaming of the event next year. Objectivesea (talk) 22:01, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If that happens the Olympics will be cancelled outright. SYSS Mouse (talk) 19:38, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. Wait at the least for a few months first until it becomes clearer as to whether it will actually happen (the COVID crisis may well go on for a long time) and reflected by the sources (see if the media uses 2021 in the name) before deciding what to do. Hzh (talk) 09:23, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Let's wait what the IOC/media will call it. Kante4 (talk) 18:38, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Is it (year) (event)? In that case, it should be "2021 Summer Olympics", just like it was "2020 Summer Olympics" and not some wording of "that next Summer Olympics in Tokyo" when it was scheduled for then. Is it a more Wikipedia article title-sounding version of "Tokyo 2020"? Then it should be "2020 Summer Olympics". Is it about COMMONNAME? Then we shouldn't change it for now, but come back to it in a few months. –Uncreative Username 37 (talk) 22:21, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now Given the ever changing situation globally, the Games could be held in the winter or spring of 2021, for all we know. Best to change the title when information is confirmed. Electron2.0 (talk) 23:48, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, hey I just wanna I oppose the decision to “change” the name, so I agree with Electron2.0, and I don’t really have much to share about my opinion necessarily. Jerry Steinfield (talk) 02:40, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Apart from rebranding consideration mentioned by others above, it is not at all certain that the Tokyo Olympics will actually take place in 2021. The games may still be pushed further back, to 2022, or cancelled altogether. Perhaps 6-8 months from now the issue of moving the title may be revisited again. Nsk92 (talk) 14:21, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It was announced that it will be branded and marketed as Tokyo 2020, so it looks like it should be historically remembered as that. --Dr.Bookman (talk) 18:13, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nominated for the main page at ITN

-Ad Orientem (talk) 17:55, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why not rename to "Tokyo (summer) olympics"?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

My understanding is that the main issue is the potential for confusion with the 1964 Olympics? Would a potential solution to the naming problem be to simply call this article the "tokyo summer olympics", with a link to the 1964 games article at the top, and some clear clarification in the first few lines that this is referring to the 2020/2021 games? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.184.63.162 (talk • contribs) March 25, 2020 (UTC)

No. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 14:14, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No. Nfitz (talk) 14:15, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not even going to address the merits of this suggestion as there is a requested move discussion above. jamacfarlane (talk) 15:33, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"(marking the first time that an entire Olympics have ever been postponed)."

I don't feel strongly enough to be bold and edit it, but I think the parenthetical comment above is, while technically true, misleading and probably not needed in the introduction. True that the 1916, 1940, and 1944 Olympics were cancelled rather than postponed, but to a reader new to the topic, that could be a distinction without a meaningful difference when reading the overview of this article. The 1944 Olympics (to use one of the examples above) were indeed cancelled, but there was an Olympics four years later in the same city where it had been scheduled (London). To a casual reader, is there a distinction between an Olympics being cancelled and an Olympics that could be said to have been postponed for four years? Does it improve understanding of the topic in the introduction to make it sound as though this is the first time that an "entire Olympics" (as opposed to a half Olympics?) has ever been postponed? It is not the first time that a scheduled Olympics did not place in the year in which it had been scheduled to occur; that has happened three times before.

My main concern is that this wording is in the introduction, which is supposed to be the clearest and most essential overview of the topic. The distinction between "cancelled" and "postponed" can be explored in full later in the article. To me, this parenthetical comment is not needed in the intro and will leave some readers with a mistaken impression. Moncrief (talk) 06:52, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Opens a can of worms, introduces confusion in 1st para, not needed. Will remove it. The lead will have to be reworked fairly soon anyway, once the dust has settled a bit. Rodney Baggins (talk) 08:53, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, you can add the fact to the introduction. If you read the 1948 Summer Olympics itself, the article clearly said that World War II stopped the plans and the Games were cancelled so London again stood as a candidate for 1948. Great Britain almost handed the 1948 games to the United States due to post-war financial and rationing problems, but King George VI said that this could be the chance to restore Britain from World War II. The official report of the London Olympics shows that there was no case of London being pressed to run the Games against its will. It says:
The Games of 1944 had been allocated to London and so it was that in November 1945, the Chairman of the British Olympic Council, Lord Burghley, went to Stockholm and saw the president of the International Olympic Committee to discuss the question of London being chosen for this great event. As a result, an investigating committee was set up by the British Olympic Council to work out in some detail the possibility of holding the Games. After several meetings they recommended to the council that the Lord Mayor of London should be invited to apply for the allocation of the Games in 1948. And also, in the article 1944 Summer Olympics, written there that the games were cancelled instead of postponed. If you are not sure, if an Olympics got cancelled, there should be a cancellation announcement, and the similar announcement for postponement. So this is indeed the first Olympics to be postponed as with the criteria you mentioned above.—SquidHomme (talk) 16:49, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dates in the infobox

What do you all think should go in the infobox for date? TBD or what? The reason I ask, is that right now the infobox says

Opening: 23 July 2021
Closing: 8 August 2021

and that can't possibly be right. You all decide what it should say. -- MelanieN (talk) 20:37, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We absolutely can't put any dates in the infobox because no new dates have been announced yet, so we must use TBA for now. Any new dates will need to be sourced. Rodney Baggins (talk) 21:47, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Language

Reywas92, can you please stop your blanket reverts with regards to the future tenses. It is simply inappropriate to guarantee future events in our own voice. That is just not our assessment to make. Using a conditional future tense is much more appropriate and accurate as the recent developments regarding this event have proven. I also don't understand why you keep reapplying future tense to events that are actually already in the past like for instance part of the torch relay. It be much more helpful if you would focus your efforts on the dozens of articles on the sports events that were schedule to take place this summer and now incorrectly state that they will take place on XX July or YY August 2020. It's to avoid such a mess that we should be so cautious about the usage of a word like "will".Tvx1 14:17, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I still think the lead should be in the simple future tense as it gives a positive indication that these Olympics will be going ahead at some point in the future. They have just been postponed, not cancelled. Also phrasing such as "planned to", "scheduled to", "expected to" just sounds plain awkward and not necessarily the best way of wording things. I'm glad you've started a discussion here because you and Reywas92 are in the process of an edit war and getting close to ANI. Rodney Baggins (talk) 16:30, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This "caution" is pointless and unwarranted. You are making the article clunkier without improving its statements. The future tense is not a "guarantee"! It is not "our assessment" to report future activities consistent with the sources – nothing is "proven" in life and hedging and forbidden the simple future does not help the reader who is smart enough to know that "will", written anywhere, is an expectation. See Wikipedia_talk:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Does_CRYSTAL_ban_the_word_"will"?. Reywas92Talk 17:14, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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