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this is actually pretty decent article
Aozf05 (talk | contribs)
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*** I am not sure that you understand me correctly. Maybe "dota-like" and "action real-time strategy" are for history section (or footnote), but it's not a common term to be in the lead section. As one example, simple Google search can confirm that – both in raw search numbers and the number of reliable sources in last 4-5 years [[User:EchoBlu|EchoBlu]] ([[User talk:EchoBlu|talk]]) 01:38, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
*** I am not sure that you understand me correctly. Maybe "dota-like" and "action real-time strategy" are for history section (or footnote), but it's not a common term to be in the lead section. As one example, simple Google search can confirm that – both in raw search numbers and the number of reliable sources in last 4-5 years [[User:EchoBlu|EchoBlu]] ([[User talk:EchoBlu|talk]]) 01:38, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
****Correct, it's no longer common. In the past however, this article was actually named ARTS at times instead of MOBA as the source usage shifted each way. It used to be very prevalent. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 02:52, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
****Correct, it's no longer common. In the past however, this article was actually named ARTS at times instead of MOBA as the source usage shifted each way. It used to be very prevalent. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 02:52, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
*This is mainly attributable to Riot Games pushing the MOBA label during the early days of this genre's mainstream history. League was, regrettably, the more popular title and so MOBA caught on in the media more than Valve's preferred term, ARTS, which imo is more descriptive and indicates the genre's origin. I'm also still partial to Dota-like because as yet, MOBA is an increasingly broad umbrella term with less and less meaning as more diverse, less Dota-like games are made under that label. There isn't really a term to describe the very specific game type that is Dota so I don't see why we can't push the term Dota-like until it catches on as a subset of MOBA. It's not like there isn't precedent for this naming convention. See roguelikes.[[User:Aozf05|Aozf05]] ([[User talk:Aozf05|talk]]) 19:46, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:46, 3 May 2020

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Strategy?

I'm not sure I understand why this 'genre' is lumped in with Strategy games, other than the origins as a Starcraft mod/scenario. By all accounts, this genre is more in the style of ARPGs than ARTS, just with interface holdovers from their ARTS roots.

I would think if you can call MOBAs and their ilk Strategy games, might as well call Battlefield and Tribes series games (or really any similar FPS/TPS with a focus on teamwork and taking out or over bases) by the same label, since they involve just as much strategic or tactical thinking and coordination with teammates.

How exactly does this sort of thing work, exactly? I mean, yeah, the genre spawned as a Strategy game mod, but the play style and mechanics seem more in line with other genres. I feel like this isn't the only instance of mods playing very differently from their host game, just a rare instance where such spawned a separate genre beyond the host game. What's the logic and methodology for classification and categorization in this case? 71.121.252.207 (talk) 02:02, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

MOBA games are not RTS, but they are strategy games. Strategy is much wider term than RTS. MOBA genre only originated as a subgenre of real-time strategy, but now is completely separate genre. 178.223.136.199 (talk)
I agree with the point that if we call MOBA Strategy games then why won't we call Battlefield strategy games too. The root of considering MOBA as Strategy lies in the fact that most known games of this genre are RTS (League of legends, DOTA etc) and so MOBA became associated with Strategy games. But now we can see it more clear that MOBA is separated from Strategy because we have a few examples of MOBA games that are more likely considered ARPG than Strategy (Smite, Paragon). I think categorization MOBA as Strategy should be reconsidered. QueenToF7 (talk) 06:52, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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September 2019 Overhaul

Hi, I have done an overhaul of the article this month, but I kept everything of value in it. I tried to make it more compact, clear, and organized. My focus was on important features of the genre, instead to talk about details that are characteristic only for one game. I think it will be of use to people who are less familiar with the genre, casual players, new players, researchers of the phenomenon, etc.

Any further suggestions are welcome. EchoBlu (talk) 16:44, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ARTS (action real-time strategy)?

I've heard that Valve call DOTA 2 ARTS but besides that I didn't find any source that use ARTS term, especially synonymous to MOBA. QueenToF7 (talk) 16:45, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have to agree with you, it feels like this term is artificially pushed on Wikipedia (unintentionally). It doesn't reflect true state which can be found in sources. This name has become a "fact" just because it exists on this Wikipedia page for the last 10 years. Maybe it was debatable 10 years ago, when the name was pushed by Valve but, besides Wikipedia, no one ever adopted that name. EchoBlu (talk) 01:45, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's... simply not true. While ARTS may be dead as a term now, the debates and fights over the genres name were long and sourcing existed for multiple names, including the very simplistic "Dota-like" title. Reliable secondary sources used all three terms interchangably for a long time before MOBA eventually won out (and consensus on Wikipedia finally consolidated around it) -- ferret (talk) 01:28, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • I am not sure that you understand me correctly. Maybe "dota-like" and "action real-time strategy" are for history section (or footnote), but it's not a common term to be in the lead section. As one example, simple Google search can confirm that – both in raw search numbers and the number of reliable sources in last 4-5 years EchoBlu (talk) 01:38, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • Correct, it's no longer common. In the past however, this article was actually named ARTS at times instead of MOBA as the source usage shifted each way. It used to be very prevalent. -- ferret (talk) 02:52, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is mainly attributable to Riot Games pushing the MOBA label during the early days of this genre's mainstream history. League was, regrettably, the more popular title and so MOBA caught on in the media more than Valve's preferred term, ARTS, which imo is more descriptive and indicates the genre's origin. I'm also still partial to Dota-like because as yet, MOBA is an increasingly broad umbrella term with less and less meaning as more diverse, less Dota-like games are made under that label. There isn't really a term to describe the very specific game type that is Dota so I don't see why we can't push the term Dota-like until it catches on as a subset of MOBA. It's not like there isn't precedent for this naming convention. See roguelikes.Aozf05 (talk) 19:46, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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