Jump to content

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Mortal Kombat/Archive 3: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous editNext edit →
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
Wesborland (talk | contribs)
943 edits
No edit summary
EVula (talk | contribs)
39,066 edits
Line 1: Line 1:
{| class="messagebox"
|-
| [[Image:WPMK Archive icon.png|50px|The Mortal Kombat WikiProject Talk Archive icon]]
| This is an '''[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|archive]]''' of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the <span class="plainlinks">[{{{1|{{FULLURL:{{TALKSPACE}}:{{BASEPAGENAME}}}}}}} current talk page]</span>.<!-- Template:Talkarchive -->
|}__NOEDITSECTION__[[Category:{{TALKSPACE}} archives|{{BASEPAGENAME}}]]
{{Wikipedia:WikiProject Mortal Kombat/Talk archive}}

== Character image consistency ==
With the upcoming release of ''Mortal Kombat: Armageddon'', I think we should now consider some sort of standard for what to use as the images for each character. As the game is not out yet, I'm seeing a chaotic mix of ''MKA'' promo renders mixed with the versus images that have recently been released on the official Midway forum. I think this looks somewhat sloppy. Personally, I think all the images need a total revamp. Therefore, I propose the following guidelines which will both make it easier to manage these character pictures and to add some uniformity to all of them:
(I apologize if some of these seem poorly written or confusing, but I'm sorta just winging it here)

=== Main Infobox Image ===
* The main image shown in each character's info box should be their latest rendition, which in most cases means what they look like in ''MKA'' (Khameleon may be the only exception). ''Mortal Kombat 8'' is a long way off, so I don't think we'll have much to worry about here for the time being.
* As they're all coming from the same game, the images should all be representing the characters in the same manner, i.e. only use the character image from their bio screen (As in ''Deception'': [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kenshi_Bio_Model_Deception.PNG], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mileena_Bio_Model_Deception.PNG], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hotaru_Bio_Model_Deception.PNG], and so on, just using ''MKA'' equivalents). Right now, all we have are some sporadic ''MKA'' promo renders and versus images, so I can't exactly say what may be used as of yet (Hopefully ''MKA'' will have nice bio screens too). However, I don't think we should use the ''MKA'' versus images since Midway doesn't seem to have chosen any specific style for all of them. Some characters are holding weapons, some aren't, some take up the entire versus screen, some fill up very little space (Compare [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Chameleon_02.jpg Chameleon's] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Meat_02.jpg Meat's]), and other issues such as this.
* For simplicity, the image should depict the character's primary costume, not any alternates or whatever.
=== Other character images in articles ===
* The number of images should most likely be dependant on the length of the article, as well as the number of games the character has been in.
* Their should be a fair representation of what the characters have looked like throughout the games. In terms of being "fair", one character representation per game should suffice (For example, one image from ''MK3'', ''MK:DA'', and ''MK:D'' would be preferable to three images solely from ''MK:D''). However, this may also depend on the number of games a character has appeared in, particularly ones who debuted in ''Deception''.
* Avoid ingame screenshots (Just to clarify, by "ingame screenshots" I mean screenshots taken during an actual in-progress battle, not things like bio screens or endings). Yes, I know this might seem like a dubious proposition, but these articles are about the characters, not the games. These characters are not exclusive to any one game, and often a screenshot does not provide a very good representation of the character whereas a render taken from their bio would do the job much more aptly. Unless there's something particularly relevant that can't be shown without an ingame screenshot, or their simply isn't a lot of character art available of a certain character (i.e. [[Motaro]] and [[Meat (Mortal Kombat)|Meat]]), I think ingame screenshots should best be avoided in most cases.
* In reference to appearances of characters in media outside of the games (Comics, movies, cartoons, etc) and whether they should be included in images, a case by case basis should be determined for each article. As a lot of these other sources are not canon, it should not be a necessity to visually cover their appearances in such. However, article length is also relevant, as an image can break up the monotony of large chunks of text quite nicely. As the "Other media appearances" section normally appears at the bottom of articles, where by then a great mass of text has begun to amass by that point, an image could definitely help. (An example would be my rocking [[Rain_%28Mortal_Kombat%29#Appearances_in_other_media|Rain]] image. ;] ).
=== Other general rules ===
* Images should not use black backgrounds. Yes, I know this is how Midway have released some of their pictures, but it looks terrible in Wiki articles in contrast to the stark white background here. In a few cases, some characters are nearly invisible on the black background to begin with ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Stryker_Armageddon.PNG Stryker], for example. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NoobSaibotMK.JPG Noob Saibot] as another). Either a gray, white, or transparent background should be used, if possible.
* The images should be of fair resolution. Although the ultra high-res renders from ''Shaolin Monks'' are currently being used in a few articles ([http:/upwiki/wikipedia/en/1/14/RaidenMKSM.jpg Example]), I think is somewhat over the top, despite looking very nice. However, some images currently being used suffer from the exact opposite problem: the images are far too small ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sheeva_Armageddon.PNG Sheeva] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kai_Armageddon.PNG Kai] are two good examples). A reasonable compromise could be made.
* Images should use a decent amount of compression without sacrificing quality. I know this is somewhat obvious, but I just noticed that some of the ''Deception'' bio images are 500kb png files. A jpeg could provide near exact quality at a fraction of the size.
* Add a fair use rationale to all images. I know this rule doesn't seem to be enforced that much, at least in term of video game related images, but it wouldn't hurt to be on the safe side. Of course, adding a fair use rational to ''all'' images will probably take a while, so this is a somewhat low priority. Still, this may be something you may want to keep in mind should any of you upload an MK-related image.
* Poor and unnecessary image replacements added into articles should be reverted on sight. I know this seems harsh, but more often than not these image replacements are done by fairly over-zealous fans who simply want to leave their mark using an "easy" method (No writing involved) or they believe that their replacement looks "cooler". However, the image replacement may actually be of a much lower quality (Poor cropping, poor compression, etc). If a standard is to be set, this would be the kind of thing to avoid and revert right away. For example, [[Kitana]]'s article originally used the very nice, high-resolution render of her from ''Shaolin Monks''. However, it was replaced by some god awful, low resolution, pixelated/possibly sharpened, overly compressed ''thing''. Also, thanks to the black background, it looks as if the back of Kitana's head is merging with the black void of space (Incidentally, I believe this is a prime example of an image that is in dire need of replacing).
Anyway, I'm open to suggestions for any improvements of my proposition. In all honesty, I'd willing take on the entire image revamping project myself. I think this could add a little touch of uniformity to all the character articles that's so sorely needed. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 02:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:You can count me on board. I like your ideas and would like to help in any way that I can. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="darkblue">Saturn</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 02:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::All in all, I really like pretty much everything that is being said here (especially the Rain image; that ''is'' pretty damn nice screen cap). About the only item I disagree with is that I really like the ''Shaolin Monks'' images in the infobox (if the images were released as fairly high-res, I don't have a problem with keeping that resolution as long as the file size isn't crazy).

::This is the sort of stuff that should eventually be placed in the [[WP:MK/SG|Style Guide]], that way we can ensure consistency. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 22:43, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:::I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't use the ''Shaolin Monk'' renders or other images of equal high-resolution, but that we can resize them to a slightly lower resolution if necessary. My main concern in this stems from the licensing tag mentioning "web-resolution" screenshots, which I guess is somewhat open to interpretation as to what defines a fair "web-resolution". However, now that I am re-reading this licensing thing, I guess high-resolution images are actually okay if the company originally released them as such. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 23:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Ayup, that's all I was saying. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 02:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

:::A corollary to your last "general rule" would be to revert ASAP. Depending on how often the OrphanBot does its work, good images that are no longer linked to in an article can get deleted in less than seven days - I've noticed a few of the better character images disappeared that way. I agree with EVula, this should be put into the style guide, though it's good to have it here first for a public commentary period before making it unequivocable law =O). [[User:Virogtheconq|Virogtheconq]] 01:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

::::But unequivocal law is ''fun''!
::::Seriously though, I agree that this should get some discussion first. Even then, I don't think that the stuff in the Style Guide should be considered handed down from on high... but I'd ''really'' love it everyone else did, after looking over the history. ;-) [[User:EVula|EVula]] 02:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
::::<small>''(taking things seriously is, ironically, seriously overrated)''</small>

Cinder has posted about 22 or so ''Armageddon'' versus images. They are of decent quality. The only problem is that not every character has been represented yet. They can be found [http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/News/read.cds?article=859 here], [http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/News/read.cds?article=866 here], [http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/News/read.cds?article=867 here], and [http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/News/read.cds?article=868 here]. How are these? -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="darkblue">Saturn</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 02:49, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

:Fantastic. I'd also like to point out that we shouldn't hesitate to flip images if they are facing the "wrong way" (meaning ''away'' from the content of the article), as the image is the same. Compare left Noob[http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/perl/cds.cgi?external_action=displayImage&id=1680] to right Noob.[http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/perl/cds.cgi?external_action=displayImage&id=1673]
:Hell, if need be I can just mask out some of the characters and we can just flip-flop them to our hearts content ''and'' have them on any background we want ([[Meat (Mortal Kombat)|Meat]] on top of a [[Candy Land]] board? You got it!) [[User:EVula|EVula]] 03:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sweet. I'll stay on top of MK Online and link more pics as they come out. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="darkblue">Saturn</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 03:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Update!''' Three more can be found [http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/News/read.cds?article=871 here]. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="darkblue">Saturn</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 21:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

:I mentioned my thoughts on the ''MKA'' versus images above. My main concerns are that they're quite small (Almost lower-resolution than the ''MK3''/''UMK3'' versus images), they're very inconsistent with one another (Some characters are holding weapons, others are not), and that they don't really provide the best representations of them (Much of their body is out of frame, etc). I think the best case scenario would be if ''MKA'' has full-body depictions of the characters in their bios or something, à la ''Deception'', but we won't know for sure until the game is released. In fact, I didn't really plan on doing anything relevant to this proposition until a a short while after ''MKA'' has been out, thus allowing time to consider what resources are available and what would be best to use. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 22:25, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Just an FYI, I've updated the infobox images for [[Kintaro (Mortal Kombat)]] and [[Chameleon (Mortal Kombat)]]. I'm suddenly a major fan of [http://www.mortalkombatwarehouse.com/ Mortal Kombat Warehouse's] picture archives. The transparent images look quite nice in the infobox, in my opinion, and work well for the characters. They also seem to meet MarphyBlack's proposed requirements for infobox images (though I agree that ''Deception'' styled full-body images would be optimal, I'd be surprised if we got it). [[User:EVula|EVula]] 16:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:Well, after finally playing through Armageddon, it seems that there are no full body bio screens as I had hoped for. In fact, there are no bios period. But I digress, this presents somewhat of a problem with my proposition above. It seems that Midway did little to no updating of the characters returning from Deadly Alliance and Deception. Therefore, they look exactly the same now as they did many years ago. Thus, we have no real "latest rendition". The character pictures on the Armageddon site are re-used artwork from the past games as well. However, I feel that the character pictures on the Armageddon site (The same ones present at MK Warehouse) are still not the best representations of these characters, as with their versus poses. They're cropped, somewhat low-res, and the png transparency adds a lot to the file size. In light of this, I am now leaning towards simply keeping the Deception bios and Deadly Alliance renders since the Armageddon character pictures we have are literally the same but at a much lower quality. In the case of the characters new or returning for the first time in Armageddon, well, I guess we're just stuck with what Midway gave us. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]]

::I just recently spent the last few days on a mad editing spree updating most all of the character infobox images. Since we have no definitive "Armageddon" rendition of each character, I used the following priorities:
::*'''1'''. The ''Shaolin Monks'' renders. Probably the best representations we have of these particular characters.
::*'''2'''. The ''Deception'' bio images. I replaced the very large 500kb-600kb png images with new and compressed 100kb jpeg replacements that give near equal quality. This should save about 5mb total.
::*'''3'''. The ''Armageddon'' pictures from the official site, taken from [http://www.mortalkombatwarehouse.com/ Mortal Kombat Warehouse]. These are png files with transparencies, and surprisingly they look pretty damn good, especially in FireFox where png transparencies actually work. Check the articles for [[Sheeva]], [[Kurtis Stryker|Stryker]], [[Reiko (Mortal Kombat)|Reiko]], and so on for some examples.
::*'''4'''. Um, some sort of ''Deadly Alliance'' character renders. However, I can't find anything decent to use since it doesn't seem as if Midway released any nice-looking ''MK:DA'' renders. Once I find something for these characrers, then I will have finished revamping all the infobox images.
::*'''5'''. Everyone else uses a pre-''MK:DA'' representation. Well, just Khameleon, really. :(
::- [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 19:24, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

==Ninja Embargo==
I don't know for sure if any articles have used it just far, but it just ticks me off that a majority of the Mortal Kombat characters are constantly referred to "ninjas" despite only one playing character being a ninja (Scorpion). Not only is it grammically incorrect (ninja is plural for ninja), but it's incorrect. Sub-Zero himself even ''said'' he wasn't a ninja, and took offense to the term. So to keep things correct, I suggest we all use correct terms (such as "assassin" or something to refer to the Lin Kuei or the female pallete swaps from MK2). [[User:The S|The S]] 02:42, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:I prefer the term assassin. Ermac refers to themselves as such. Also, we now post new discussions at the bottom. [[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="darkblue">Saturn</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 03:16, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:I agree with this. As it is, "ninja" gets used as a replacement for "palette swap", which isn't even an accurate term for the characters anymore (since each of the palette-swapped characters now has a more-or-less distinctive costume). [[User:EVula|EVula]] 05:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Precisely. I've been looking for instances where they are still refered as pallete swaps so that it can be updated. ''Trilogy'' was basically the last game to feature pallete swaps. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="darkblue">Saturn</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 05:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, technically I suppose one could argue for MK4/Gold, but that was retexturing the same model instead of just palette-swapping. As far as the "ninja" thing goes, it's a widely-used fan denomination for any of the assassin-type palette-swapped characters. So in writing about it from an out-of-universe POV, the term "ninja" could be applied with an appropriate note, though assassin would probably be better overall, though a note about about the ninja mythos should probably still be included.[[User:Virogtheconq|Virogtheconq]] 14:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
::::I'm in favor of discussing each character's introduction as a palette-swap in their history. This, I think, would be the place to address the character's "ninja" status... and then never, ever again. :-) [[User:EVula|EVula]] 16:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:Update: looks like "ninja" ''is'' the official term, given the constant use of the word in reference to the items in ''Armageddon'''s Kreate a Fighter. This applies to the femme fatales, as well. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 15:51, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

::You're actually using the mess that is Armageddon as evidence? :p But seriously, I don't see it becoming an official term in future games, since this is the first time (other than interviews) that it's being used officially. [[User:The S|The S]] 03:18, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Well, considering the fact that all the Lin Kieu-related items are called "ninja whatever", yeah. :-P That said, I don't see the need to repeatedly address each character as a ninja; my original suggestion to cover the "ninja" term ''once'' early in the article still stands. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 03:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

== More page moves ==

Hey, I heard that groan! Don't think I didn't!

Yes, two more articles have been moved:

* [[Mortal Kombat species]], since it really is just a list, is now [[List of Mortal Kombat species]]. Given the number of specific links to this article, this is a fairly move.
* [[Kitana]]'s hatnote was starting to bug me, so I moved it to [[Kitana (Mortal Kombat)]] and created the disambig page. Not as crucial a fix.

That's all. Depending on when you read this, it might already be fixed... [[User:EVula|EVula]] 04:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

:Pfft, I'm done with the species moves. 109 edits in about an hour... Booya. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 05:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okay, Kitana is done. 76 edits in half an hour... I think I just beat my old record. ;-)

:So, anyway... yeah, I guess there's no real point in this bit of talk anymore, is there? *cough* [[User:EVula|EVula]] 05:42, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

== And for my latest template... the Kombatant's Barnstar ==

I've finally finished my obsessive tweaking of the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Mortal Kombat/Award|Kombatant's Barnstar]]. It isn't a "typical" barnstar, in the sense that I coded every bit of it with pure XHTML/CSS (as opposed to the wikitables that most every other one is made of). It unfortunately isn't as nice as I'd imagined, as Wikipedia won't allow for certain CSS tags... blast. Anyway, feel free to provide feedback; I realize that I stuck pretty religiously to a red/black/gray color scheme, but the shades of orange that I tried introducing just didn't work particularly well.

In related news, I'm ''seriously'' running out of things to slap the logo on. I've already eyed the little [[:Image:Nuvola apps knotes.png|to do icon]] at the top of the page... [[User:EVula|EVula]] 05:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yeah, change the pushpin to the MK "bubble". -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="darkblue">Saturn</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 18:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

::[[:Image:Nuvola apps knotes.png|Pushpin]] + [[:Image:WPMK Logo.png|bubble]] = [[:Image:WPMK Note.png]]

::So... yeah, I'll basically make custom images for anything. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 04:47, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Cute. [[User:Virogtheconq|Virogtheconq]] 06:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

:Many thanks for [[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]] for awarding me the first barnstar. In a fit of ego-stroking, I realized that I should probably make a userbox for it... [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Mortal Kombat/Award/userbox|so I did]]. It has an optional field for adding the awarder's name (in use on [[User:EVula/sidebar/awards|my awards page]]). [[User:EVula|EVula]] 05:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

== Port exclusive content on MK games originally in the arcade ==

I think all info about content and features added to ports of the MK games that were in the arcades should remain under a port section. They should not be under the main article's, for example, "Characters" or "Arenas" sections unless they were originally in the arcade game.

Here's an example, in bold, of what I mean taken from the "Characters and cast" section of the ''[[Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3]] article:

"[[Rain (Mortal Kombat)|Rain]] (John Turk) - Featured in the games opening montage, he is a fake hidden character that is not found in this game. He was meant to be a mock of song-artist Prince's hit "Purple Rain." Like the song, Rain is characterized by the bright purple ninja outfit that he wears. Another mock aimed at Prince would be the phrase "Rain can be found in the Graveyard" which subtly points to Prince's dying career during the time that the game was released. '''In the Sega Mega Drive/Genesis and Super Nintendo version he was playable. He also becomes playable in Mortal Kombat Trilogy.'''"

I also think the mention of Rain in ''MK Trilogy'' is unnecessary. He has that game's article as well as a character page to explain his in-game appearances.

[[User:Buzda|Buzda]] 09:26, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

:Sorry for the late reply, but yes, I agree with this. It's a little confusing to know what precisely has been changed or made different in the ports of each game as all this info is spread throughout the rest of the main article. However, I know next to nothing about the console ports of most of the MK games, so I'm afraid I can't be of too much help with gathering or moving the necessary information. Looking over the game articles, though, I see you've already made some additions to them. All that really needs to be done at this point is the Ports section of the ''MKII'' article, which is currently just a bunch of pictures (Not sure if they should stay, actually). [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 02:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

== List of Mortal Kombat species ==

This [[List of Mortal Kombat species|article]] does not have a single reference - most of it could be OR as far as any editor unfamilar with the games (like me) can determine. I will PROD it in a week or so. Hopefully by then some references can be found? --[[User:Charlesknight|Charlesknight]] 21:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
:Er... well, how should the sources be cited, exactly? We can't just say "[[:Category:Mortal Kombat games|Source]]", I'm assuming. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 21:38, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


Everything you wanted to know about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources sources] --[[User:Charlesknight|Charlesknight]] 22:17, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

:PRODing is excessive. The list is rather long, but contains information that is somewhat notable in terms of describing the ''MK'' universe ''out of universe'' without including extensive descriptions within the relevant articles themselves. The ''MK'' Wikiproject is currently trying to move things towards an out-of-universe perspective, but this is taking a long time as 1) not a lot of contributors are aware of the MoS, and 2) Those who do often have other things that prevent them from rewriting entire articles. Better to leave the unreferenced tag up and maybe revisit it in a few months, not a week. I know I wouldn't be able to resource it to your satisfaction in that amount of time.
:That being said, it ''is'' high time we developed a game source guide for the wikiproject. I've poked through the MoS recommendations on sources, and can't find anything definite on how exactly to cite games, commentaries, etc., which are the only source of information we have (and the MoS discourages using games as a primary source, for reasons with which I disagree). I suppose just saying "Commentary by Ed Boon in XXX" would be more than sufficient for a placeholder, though. [[User:Virogtheconq|Virogtheconq]] 03:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

::I'd like to help, but what, specifically, needs to be done? The sources for all this information comes from nearly every single game in the series, either through the character bios, the character endings, the arcade attract mode screens, etc. Just as an example, the Shokan race being described as "half-human, half-dragon" warriors comes from the text in the original ''MK'' arcade game's attract mode. However, does this mean that we need to put an inline citation for every fact that's stated? The guideline above isn't very clear on what to do about games. I'd have to scour through the MK Species article again to see if anything has slipped through the cracks, but just about all of it is easily verifiable from checking the games (Don't assume it's OR and worthy of deletion, please). Although I'm guessing that simply adding a list of all the games at the end of the article will not be considered sufficient enough as to properly providing references for this material. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 04:06, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

::: MarphyBlack summed up my response better than I did. Its not that I don't know how to cite a source, its that I'm not sure how exactly to cite the games themselves.

:::Also, I agree with Virogtheconq that we need a source guide. That's on my personal little list, and something that I was hoping to work up to (I figured an actual [[WP:MK/SG|style guide]] was, ultimately, more important). Something else I'd like to see implemented is a full assessment of each article, and ranking them in importance to the project. Still a bit away from that, though. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 06:13, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I'll seek further advice on how games should be cited, because looking further at the mortal kombat characters article, I don't see a single source (I picked ten at random)! --[[User:Charlesknight|Charlesknight]] 16:20, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

You guys might check out CVG FAs like [[Final Fantasy X]] to see one way to cite things; they tend to copy the in-game text that they cite, alongside the game being cited. There is also the {{[[Template:cite video game|cite video game]]}} template. [[User:Nifboy|Nifboy]] 18:11, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Mortal Kombat Conquest ==

Feel free to review the [[List of Mortal Kombat Conquest episodes]] I created. Enjoy. [[User:Raja Lon Flattery|Raja Lon Flattery]] 14:00, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

:Nice start. I went through and made several changes (including adding the MK table). The one bit of advice I'd give you is to make sure you check your links; the [[Lin Kuei]] link took me to the ''real'' group, and you had a link to [[Subzero]]. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 16:11, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

::lol, I didn't know there was a ''real'' group. [[User:Raja Lon Flattery|Raja Lon Flattery]] 16:00, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Yeah, I was a bit surprised as well. Just keep in mind that you should ''always'' follow your links to make sure they go where you want, as numerous ''MK'' articles have "(Mortal Kombat)" at the end. [[Scorpion]], [[Smoke]], [[Sub-Zero]], [[Jade]], [[Raiden]]... none of those articles are the relevant ones.

:::Also, double-check to make sure you closed your episode table properly; I've fixed it twice (take a look at the history to see exactly what was done). [[User:EVula|EVula]] 16:14, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

== We need a new logo for this wikiproject... i dunno im bored thats why i am posting this ==

use the current one with the mk dragon on the background (make it look shadowy) this way it looks nice on my user page.. plz. my fave char is subzero and scorpion and noob. {{unsigned|Storkian}}

:Um, what? First off, in my opinion EVula's MK logo looks great, and there's no problem with that on my User page. Secondly, I don't think we can have the Dragon logo because of copyright, but I'm not totally sure. Either way, it's staying as it is. [[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]] 18:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

::I agree with the Angel on this one - I'm very happy with the logo as it is. However, we have to remember that this place operates on consensus. So, if you'd rather have a different logo, you have a few options:
::*Put up with the current consensus that EVula's brilliant design is used for our logo; or
::*Offer your own design, and see what happens (make sure that it doesn't violate Wikipedia policy).
::The choice is yours. [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 19:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

:I think we should keep [[:Image:WPMK Logo.png|the current logo]]. Completely unbiased opinion, of course... [[User:EVula|EVula]] 03:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

::Unbiased, yeah... ;) I like the current MK bubble design also. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue">Saturn</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 01:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Okay, so maybe just a ''bit'' biased... [[User:EVula|EVula]] 02:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

:I like the current logo, I think we should keep that one.<font color="red">[[User:Wesborland|Wesborland]] 07:34, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

== Referencing sources ==

Okay, so now we begin the long, arduous task of properly referencing everything... oh boy! :-)

For the initial foray into this, I suggest we start with ''[[Mortal Kombat: Armageddon]]''; of all the ''MK'' articles, this one has the best chance at being fully-referenced, as it is still unreleased and information is being released about it on a regular basis. This can serve as a good training ground (for lack of a better term) before we start tackling the more difficult articles, like the characters.

With that in mind, I've made [[Mortal Kombat: Armageddon#References|a dedicated "References" section]]. Sadly, it only has a single reference right now; I picked a section in the middle to start with, though really we should start from the top down, so that we can properly cite the same sources multiple times. I'll start doing more when I get home, but for right now, I wanted everyone to know what was going on. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 18:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

:I've heard different things about this, but do we have to source stuff to do with the game storylines? For example, would one have to find the part in the Mortal Kombat Storyline, for example, and put a source to the bottom where is will state in which game this particular event occurred? I have been told we do have to do this, but to me it seems like stating the obvious. Examples of what I mean can be found on the [[Metal Gear timeline#_note-MGS2|Metal Gear timeline]]. [[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]] 20:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

::"''but do we have to source stuff to do with the game storylines?''" This, in my opinion, is where the uncertainty and confusion comes in when being asked to add sources and references to video game articles. If this were a biographical article about a living person, then sure, sources and references would be a must. However, this is about a video game. The game '''is''' the source for this information. How would you verify this information? You simply check the game, just as if you'd check a reference book if it was listed as a source. Having to put inline citations is superfluous, if not downright absurd. The guidelines for providing references and sources for video game information need some revising, or at least some added clarity. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 22:41, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Now that is ''exactly'' what I think, but if you click [[Metal Gear timeline#_note-MGS2|here]], which links to the Metal Gear timeline, you will see that there they have sourced the actual games in which the events occour.. even though it seems obvious. I was also told on the [[Talk:The Mortal Kombat storyline|talk page of the Mortal Kombat storyline]], that it needs to be linked to the actual game... which seems a bit stupid, really.~ [[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]] 22:47, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
::::It is, but it isn't a lot of work for something that will (hopefully) resolve some long-standing issues other editors have with these articles. Perhaps we should look into making a template that we could just stick in the references section that will automatically cite the games. [[User:Virogtheconq|Virogtheconq]] 03:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::I thought about that, but didn't find anything that I felt would really work. I'd be more than happy to have overlooked something. Unless we can get away with just a blanket "General references" section, which would be a transcluded list of all ''MK'' games...

:::::I think our best bet would be to just mention what game something happens in, which is what we do more often than not anyway. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 03:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Okay, I also started converting the character articles over to a [[WP:MK/SG|style guide]]-dictated format, starting with [[Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)]]. Part of this includes a References section, which I've gone ahead and done a couple of. This will still be an uphill battle, but I think we can do this... eventually...

:Also, I've started updating the To Do list at the top of the talk page, so everyone can use that to get a sense for what is actively going on around here. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 02:59, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


:Good news! Turns out that there ''is'' a way to have a standardized note section. Ironically, I found it on the article that I wrote back when I first joined Wikipedia and didn't know how else to do &lt;ref&gt;s...

:Check out [[The Zombie Survival Guide#References]]. Each of the websites is done as a single item in ''just'' the References section, rather than an in-line citation. I used that to crank out [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Mortal Kombat/game refs]], which lists all of the games for easy citation. I still need to tweak the code, but I'm hoping that we can just include that file in an article and instantly cite each game as many times as we need. I'll keep everyone informed as I go. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 16:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

:Just an update, but [[Metal Gear Solid]] recently was given GA status, in no small part from the (extensive) referencing that's been done on it, which includes specific quotations from in-game dialogue to write about plot elements, which we could probably do here (though instead of dialogue, it'd have to be excerpts from the manuals or endings). [[User:Virogtheconq|Virog]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Virogtheconq|It's not]]</sup><sub>[[User_talk:Virogtheconq|my fault!]]</sub> 04:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

==Something to keep an eye on==

Hey, guys. Just thought I'd bring up the number of articles with "BMK" and/or "AMK" in them. There used to be a BMK-AMK article which stated it stood for "Before Mortal Kombat" and "After Mortal Kombat". It got deleted because it was totally unsourcable- it's never been in any of the games, it's never been mentioned in any publications and the developers don't use it. And, yet, the terms remain in a lot of articles. It's difficult to search for them as the results often take you to pages that have little or nothing to do with Mortal Kombat, so I'm just going to request that if you guys spot any usage of either BMK or AMK you remove it. I don't really think this needs further explanation but, if you need anything to sway you, I should point out there's little-to-nothing to give any indication of timeframe within the games. --[[User:L T Dangerous|L T Dangerous]] 19:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
: Yeah, I voted for that article to be deleted. I will be on the lookout for those mentions too. <sup>---[[User:SilentRage|<span style="color: #060">Silent</span>]]</sup>[[User_talk:SilentRage|<span style="color: #060">RAGE!</span>]] 12:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
: Okay, I've pretty much ransacked a load of pages. Unless I missed any (which I don't think I did) then BMK and AMK are now removed from the BMK and AMK articles themselves, all the Realms pages and all the factions/alliances pages. I think they're the most likely to have any but I wouldn't put it past the terms being on some character pages (more likely the MK1-4 pages as MKDA made it hard to tell how much had passed in between). --[[User:L T Dangerous|L T Dangerous]] 13:04, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

=="Hornbuckle"?==
I don't get it, why after it was revealed that this "Hornbuckle" character is really one of Onaga's Holy Men (in the same sentence that explains that "Torch" is Blaze, none the less), is the name "Hornbuckle" still used? I think the articles should be edited to reflect this. I know I am changing them. Who else? <sup>---[[User:SilentRage|<span style="color: #060">Silent</span>]]</sup>[[User_talk:SilentRage|<span style="color: #060">RAGE!</span>]] 12:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:I don't see the explanation that Hornbuckle is one of Onaga's holy men and the name Hornbuckle itself as being mutually exclusive. Not only that, but there is no source for Hornbuckle's retcon; it isn't even covered by [[List of minor Mortal Kombat characters#Hornbuckle|his minor character description]]. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 15:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
::Are you stoned? [http://mkw.mortalkombatonline.com/mkda/blaze/]
::"During his quest, he was ambushed on a bridge by an anceint sect of holy men still serving the long dead Dragon King." See, right there! The bridge in question is the one next to the Pit II. The scene that screenshot is describing is when Blaze was captured. If you say that "Hornbuckle" isn't a representation of a holy man, then you might as well not consider the man on fire as Blaze, because this is the only source material saying that he is infact Blaze. <sup>---[[User:SilentRage|<span style="color: #060">Silent</span>]]</sup>[[User_talk:SilentRage|<span style="color: #060">RAGE!</span>]] 04:06, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
:::If you're done insulting me, I'd like for you to explain how Hornbuckle '''can't''' be the name of the holy man (which is the crux of my argument; try re-reading it, since I think you're mistaken as to what I was asking). I have no problem with saying that the character across from Blaze is one of Onaga's Holy Men; I have a problem with your assertion that "Hornbuckle" can't be his name.
:::Thanks for providing the source that I asked for, but next time try to do it ''without'' being rude, if you don't mind. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 04:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Sorry about that, I was in a really bad mood at the time. Anyway, the reason that his name is not Hornbuckle, is because that name is just a fan term. The name "Hornbuckle" has never been shown in any game and has never been documented in any official way by Midway. And because this is Wikipedia, I think that ''you'' have to site your source(s) on this one. <sup>---[[User:SilentRage|<span style="color: #060">Silent</span>]]</sup>[[User_talk:SilentRage|<span style="color: #060">RAGE!</span>]] 07:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::No worries, apology accepted. I think that it is important to document that Hornbuckle, while not official, is still the fan-derived name of the character, just with a ''heavy'' emphasis on the fact that it isn't official in any way, shape, or form. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 16:29, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

== Mokap ==

[[Mokap]]'s article is one of the few MK articles that hasn't been cleaned up and is one of the MK articles that has ben vandalized so much. For instance, a week ago, somebody wrote that Mokap has a [[camcorder]] as a weapon in ''Armageddon'', also showing a video source for it (though, the video does not show Mokap with a weapon). Months ago, in the article, it was writing "Gaykap", instead of Mokap. Also, his biograpy section is just a copy-and-paste of his ''Deadly Alliance'' bio. Currently, I put both of his ''Deadly Alliance'' and ''Armageddon'' renders, and tried to write his bio from scratch (which I didn't succeed well). Currently I tagged the article as a MK stub. If we can expand this article, it would be better I think, because although he's a joke character, he's also a MK main character, and if he's going to appear in ''Armageddon'', he would be a more "serious" character. What do you think? [[User:Master Spider|Master Spider]] 16:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

== Anyone have Armageddon yet? ==

There was recently a minor rash of alignment changes to some of the articles (primarily updating "Unknown" alignments), which were reverted by The Haunted Angel. I'm hoping to pick up the Prima guide to the game later today, but really it'd be great if one of us had the game and could definitively rule on some of the content changes that are going to start happening.

The <expletive deleted> Xbox version won't come out for another week, so I'm useless on any actual game content that isn't in the Prima guide. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 21:03, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:Yeah, I changed them thinking that someone altered them based on past games or assumption, forgetting that Armageddon isn't released here.... for a while. (Damn you, Boon!!!) I probably made an error with that, that is, if those articles were changed based on Armageddon endings. Either way, I think I'm gonna have to take a huge chunk of articles off my watchlist, lest spoilers ruin my life! ~ [[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]] <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|Pray to the Angel]])</sup> 21:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Bah, the store didn't have the damn guide; they told me to try again tomorrow. Damn you, UPS! [[User:EVula|EVula]] 23:31, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:I've had it for a few days, but with work, I'm haven't been able to play it for very long at all. [[User:The S|The S]] 17:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
::Yeah, I was hoping to have it this week, when I've got plenty of free time in the evenings. Not sure what my schedule next week will be like. Worst of all, I'll have to just kill some friends tomorrow in ''Deception'' rather than ''Armageddon''. Tragic!
::Oh, and apparently nobody has the damn guide for the game. Terribly pissed about that. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 17:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I've been looking to buy the eGuide - it would be easier for me to use, as my PC is about 8ft away from the TV! But because Prima's website doesn't take international orders, I'm having some trouble finding it. As for the game, the site I ordered it from still says it should be dispatched tomorrow. They have released items early before (e.g. my copy of [[The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (film)|RotK:EE]] was early), but I'm trying not to keep my hopes up! [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 19:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I would personally suggest that you avoid the eguide at all costs. You are forced to run it in what appears to be some sort of inhouse Prima-created Adobe Acrobat ripoff. It is awful beyond description. It uses up a insanely massive amount of resources, scrolling takes an absolutely ludicrous amount of time to simply go through one page, and the program will probably crash at some point anyway, but it will still leave a massive system resource waster running in the background that will require you to ctrl+alt+del it (Unless you use a Mac, in which case the eguide is not supported, sparing you from the suffering). I suppose the strategy part of the guide itself is not bad (If you really need a deep and in depth description of fight tacticts), but if you're looking for more MK storyline info, such as bios and the like, don't even bother. All of the bios are simply taken verbatim from previous games (How did characters like Sheeva and Shang Tsung come back from the dead? Who knows!). [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 21:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::Ah. Thanks for the tip. I might wait for the paper version to be released here. Some bio info would've been a plus, but I wanted it mostly because I'm just getting used to the different fighting styles in the newer games. [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 23:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I knew that it was too good to be true: This morning, the site said that it was waiting for stock from the supplier. Now the release date has changed to the same as the other stores! Because I can't verify anything, it looks like I'll have to avoid the character articles for a little while longer... [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 15:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:Yeah, my overall effectiveness to the project has taken a bit of a nose-dive as well. All the recent additions have also been done willy-nilly, wrecking any semblance of order or consistency. My precious style guide, noooooo! :-) [[User:EVula|EVula]] 15:47, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
:This is one reason I decided to stop editing the Armageddon and character articles: too many changes once the game came out. I'm thinking we should all come back in a month once things have settled down/the XBox version has been released. The articles that don't explicitly involve Armageddon (the other games and the movies, I guess) should be fine, though. [[User:Virogtheconq|Virogtheconq]] 02:06, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

::The Prima guide is ''no'' help. It says practically nothing about alignment. And as expected, it's literally filled with typos and picture errors. Also, it tries to mention where all relics can be found in Konquest but it missed out on the locations of about four of them. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 17:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I got it. And with the lack of both the explaination of what happened between Deception and Armageddon ''and'' character bios, this game is making it harder for ''us'' to write down any cohesive storyline. It's bullshit! <sup>---[[User:SilentRage|<span style="color: #060">Silent</span>]]</sup>[[User_talk:SilentRage|<span style="color: #060">RAGE!</span>]] 20:21, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

:I don't think there is a real storyline. Basically, all the bios carry over from the last game the fighters were in. The Kombat Kards usually provide bio info, but they don't have one for all the characters. I don't think that Chameleon has one. This game really seems to be a next-gen ''Trilogy''. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 20:28, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
::Agreed. I too, think that ''Armageddon'' is just made for collect all existing characters (even the most minor, most unoriginal and less liked ones) and put an end to behind most of them.
::About the bios, yes, ''Armageddon'' does not have bios. I thought that the endings were explaining what happened them, but their ending are just...scrappy (I can't think of any word). At least, they can be a clue for their real end, such as they will/would live or not.

::So far, we will gain info from Konquest mode and endings, if they aren't any bios. What do you think? [[User:Master Spider|Master Spider]] 14:25, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::For lack of a better source, yeah, looks like Konquest will be our primary source. Damn. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 15:25, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::Good. Although, there are information on some articles from ''Armageddon'' endings, and it has written as to be canon ([[Rain (Mortal Kombat)|Rain]], for example-his ending is written as it is really canon). Should it (and the others) be deleted or not? [[User:Master Spider|Master Spider]] 16:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::I don't see how Rain's ending is being stated as canon in his article. It's just saying what happens in it. All the character articles present their Armageddon endings in the same way, with no judgement as to their canonicity (Even in the case of mind-numbingly stupid endings, like, say, [[Jarek]]'s), leaving the reader to come up with their own opinions (Most likely being something along the lines of "These endings really suck!"). [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 18:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:Okay, I now have ''Armageddon'', though I've got rehearsals for most of this week, and won't be able to play it (and, well, I spent ''far'' too much time customizing a character...). Aside from playing some of the big and/or new guys (whee Onaga... Meat is really fun, too), I haven't gotten into it that much.
:Also, if anyone else has Xbox Live, feel free to add me to your buddy list (I'm creatively named "EVula"). [[User:EVula|EVula]] 14:54, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

::Mine's arrived in the post this morning. I'll play through it a few times before I get comfortable editing character pages again. I'm disappointed over the lack of bios, but I hope Midway are taking notes and will add something online or to the Wii version (...and maybe put Khameleon in the bloody thing...). [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 09:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

== MK-stub up for deletion ==

Please weigh in at [[Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2006/October/11#various cvg sub-cats]]. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 18:17, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

== Assessment and quality ==

It is getting to be time that we started grading and assessing the various ''Mortal Kombat'' articles. To that end, I've started building the infrastructure for it. Take a look at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Mortal Kombat/Assessment]] and let me know what you think.

I'll be editing {{tl|MortalKombatProject}} soon to include the relevant fields, and then I'll start assessing everything. But before I do that, I figured it'd be a good idea to, you know, ask you guys what you think. :-)

For quality, it'll be largely subjective (and, right now, a bit up in the air). But for [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Mortal Kombat/Assessment#Importance|importance]], I've got fairly clear ideas of what is (and isn't) important in relation to the franchise. The examples I gave at the right I think sum up my ideas pretty well. Again, though, this isn't all about me, so feedback is greatly appreciated.

I also need to find out what I have to do to get a bot to help maintain the dynamically-changing items (such as a quality breakdown table). And I still have a lot of categories to create... Whee, this is fun. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 19:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

== Ermac/Sindel MKD Ending ==

I've noticed on Jax, Sonya, Cage, Kitana and Kung Lao pages that Ermac's ending is aknowledged as canon, while Reptile and Sindel's page does the same with Sindel's ending to explain the split of Onaga and Reptile. Now, is that officially confirmed canon somewhere or its just assumptions? I do realize Sindel's ending is the best bet to explain that, but Kitana was also on that one, so there's a little contradiction on their pages. If that's speculation, didn't Wikipedia don't allow such things? {{unsigned|201.255.9.209}}

:Unfortunately, there seems to be nothing in MKA that ties up, well, ''any'' loose endings. Suddenly everyone's in Edenia and Reptile's back, oddly wearing a costume that's non-canon to the extreme and everyone who died has come from the grave with no explanation for it all. It can't be understated how lazy Midway have been with regards to plot in MKA. Unfortunately, as good an explanation as Ermac and Sindel's MKD endings may be for some things, the guidelines for this very project state everything must be sourcable and, sadly, we can't prove with 100% certainty that either ending occured. If it's not bad enough that MKA doesn't fill any plotholes, it's worse that it creates a few. --[[User:L T Dangerous|L T Dangerous]] 13:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

::Though I agree that a lot of the plotlines suck, Frost's return ''was'' covered by Konquest (Taven wakes her by smashing her ice). [[User:EVula|EVula]] 14:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Plus, Reptile's ''Deadly Alliance'' form is available as an alternate costume. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 14:45, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

::::Actually, I don't think alternate costumes are considered canon; Cyrax's is his mid-cyborg transformation, but by the time the game happens, he's been a cyborg for quite some time (the description specifically states that it is how he looks ''before'' his transformation was complete). Not sure about the rest, as I've only unlocked a few so far. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 15:23, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

:As well as the fact that you can play both nanobot Smoke and regular cyborg Smoke, ala Deception (though the primary and alt are switched). [[User:The S|The S]] 18:13, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

:Realistically speaking, Ermac's Deception ending does logically explain the return of all these Deadly Alliance characters without conflicting with anything else that is seen in Armageddon (ie, Onaga isn't dead, Liu Kang is still a zombie/spirit, no one else is dead, etc). However, I don't think there's any possibility of Sindel's ending being canon since that means Onaga would be dead, and this gives a different story as to how Kitana returned to normal. Yeah, I know Reptile and Onaga both exist in Armageddon, but I would just consider that really, really, ''really'' lazy writing (Or, "completely non-existant writing", as the case may be). Point in short: I don't believe that Onaga died, and Ermac is plenty cool enough to have won in Deception. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 22:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

:But then again, that's just speculation. I agree, but again, that would just be two of us speculating. [[User:The S|The S]] 15:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

== Outword Residents: Human or Not ==

While the "Human" Members of Outworld aren't given a race name, Woulnd't it be better to call them Outworldians as they are not from earth realm and they also live almost as long as an edian (Shujunnko meets Bo' Rai Cho as a child but while he ages, bo' rai cho does not) [[User:Lego3400|Lego3400: The Sage of Time]] 01:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
:I think "Outworlder" has been used, but I can't remember if that's canon. But yeah, just like Edenians, those from Outworld have ridiculously long lifespans. [[User:The S|The S]] 02:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
::I've heard of the term "Outworlder" being used before to describe certain denizens of Outworld (Sheeva, Shang Tsung, etc.), but I've never seen it used to describe an actual race of people, such as the Edenians. Aren't the inhabitants in Outworld just humans, like in Chaosrealm and Orderrealm? And where did the idea that people in Outworld live longer than normal come from? You point out that Bo' Rai Cho doesn't age even though he knows Shujinko from the times he was a child until he became an old man. However, ''nobody'' in Deception ages (Aside from Shujinko). The way I first played through Deception's Konquest mode, Jarek had to wait about 50 years before I could find him those three damn Oni teeth, but he didn't change a bit through that time. Therefore, I don't think we should take the timeline in the game's Konquest mode too seriously (Unless it was specifically mentioned somewhere that the people who live in Outworld have extraordinarily long lives). [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 21:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I've never heard "Outworlder" used to describe anything other than ''anyone'' who comes from Outworld (Motaro, Goro, and Reiko would be good opposing examples). [[User:EVula|EVula]] 21:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Shao Khan has been Trying to take over Edeina and earth world for at least 50 years and has hardly aged, nor has Shang Suang or any one else. Sub-Zero and Sujinko clearly show the effects of time. No-one from outworld, Edina or the other realms have really aged. Also lots of the Humans have come back from the dead many times so that could explaiain how they stay young. {{unsigned|Lego3400}}
::::Additionally, Kitana, Jade, etc. are 10,000+ years old, but they don't look a day over 2,400. However, they are specifically Edinians. Shao Kahn has never been stated to be human.
::::So far, Sub-Zero and Shukinko are the only ones who show any aging (although Sub-Zero, having interacted with a fairly young Shujinko, should be a ''lot'' older). [[User:EVula|EVula]] 17:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::Shang Tsung doesn't age because he has been cursed. He needs to feed off the souls of others which allows him to keep his youth. However, Shang Tsung is human. I don't see any evidence to suggest that the humans in Outworld don't age. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 20:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
::::::First off, I'm pretty sure Outworld Humans either age slowly, or not at all; I mean, take the people who have been part of Shao Kahn's army for so many years. What about Bo Rai Cho? He appears to be the same age from the beginning of the Deception Konquest to the end, but this could just mean that they age slowly. Where is it stated that Shang Tsung was cursed not to age? '''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 22:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::::The thing about Shang Tsung is mentioned in the official MK comic book written by John Tobias (Good ole Saibot...). Anyway, as I mentioned before, not one person (Aside from Shujinko) in Deception's Konquest mode ages, not even bonafide confirmed normal humans. Sub-Zero is one of the first fighters that Shujinko is required to meet in order to continue his quest, and this is still when he's barely out of his teens. 30-40-whatever years later, Shujinko becomes an old man, yet Subby still manages to look pretty good (aka he remains exactly the same) despite the large time duration.
:::::::Incidentally, I just double checked the [http://www.kamidogu.com/gallery/comics/mortalkombat.php?issue=1&page=1 MK comic book] and rather coincidentally it uses the word "Outworlder". However, this is used to describe Goro, not a race of people. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 23:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Actually, you make a good point... Sub-Zero is a Mortal, and so he'd be an old man by the end of Konquest... I would say that it was a different Sub-Zero, but this was never mentioned, I think we are gonna' have to stick with the fact that most of the Konquest events are non-canon. Talking of which, is this comic by <s>Saibot</s> Tobias canon? I mean, I know people say "It's by one of the MK creaters so it ''has'' to be canon", but really, is it? I mean, Deception's Konquest and Shaolin Monks were created by Boon and such, yet they aren't canon. But I suppose if ''nothing'' is contradicted in this comic then I suppose it is canon... '''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 23:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::I think canonocity is always something that is non-contradictory. For example the Sub-Zero eye scar by Kung Lao in ''SM''. Because this event was given no previous explanation in other games, it's considered canon. It's not that ''Deception''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s Konquest mode is not canon, it's just that the timeline isn't very chronological. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 01:06, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
:Shaolin Monks' explanation of the eyescar is contradicted by the official MKII comic book (which IS canon). Kung Lao first meets Sub-Zero II when he comes to the Shaolin temple in a hoverjet, wearing sunglasses and a business suit. Sans scar. He would have no reason to GIVE him the scar. [[User:The S|The S]] 02:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

::Actually, if some smarmy jackass came into my temple on a damn hoverjet and I was wearing a giant blade ''on top of my freakin' head'', I'd be plenty tempted to give the guy a scar. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 03:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I think the comics are being pushed further into obscurity because Tobias has nothing to do with the series anymore. Perhaps Midway is replacing his stories with Vogel's. Who knows? But it seems like canon info comes from all sources, for example: nowhere in the games ''prior'' to the first movie does it say that Kitana is over 10,000 years old. So near as I can tell, Midway picks and chooses their canon and will change it as it suits them. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 07:24, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

::::Somehow, I get the impression that all of that hoverjet crap, isn't canon. The conquest mode in Deception has a screwed up timeline, and because that's messed up, I'd say most of the events in it arn't canon, though some major ones (such as him being put in jail) are probably canon. Personally, I don't like the idea of Kung Lao giving him the scar, I always thought (and read somewhere; probably a non-canon source) that his former clan gave it to him, but this is probably just because I don't like the story in Shaolin Monks. Infact, I shudder at the thought of it. The amazing gameplay makes up for it (I think the most hit's I've got in that game was like 164, and playing as Kung Lao in Brutality mode is so satisfying..), anyway I'm gonna' stop rambling about the game itself before I get told off. Anyway, I don't think there are any other 'Outworld humans' that are stated to have long lives, save Shang Tsung. Quan Chi however, ''does'' have a very long life, but he was originally an Oni, I believe. Shao Kahn has lived for a few thousand years, but I don't think his race has a name. It appears that it's just Edenians that have really long lives, except like other minor races, such as dragons, etc.. By this point, I think I'd like to say that the word canon has lost all meaning. '''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 13:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::On a side note, Ed Boon specifically stated that when they said Sub-Zero was marked for death by his clan, they weren't refering to an actual phisical mark, i.e. the eye scar. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 23:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::I believe the hover-jet thing is supposed to represent the Lin Kuei's new focus on technology, which would eventually lead to the creation of their cybernetic warriors. Since we don't get too much of an idea of what the Lin Kuei is like during this techno-centric period (All depictions are either before this time, or after Sub-Zero took over), this may make complete and total sense depending on how you look at it. Also, I like the idea of Sub-Zero handing out business cards. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 00:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

:Yeah, I do too. It fits with how in Deadly Alliance, one reason he joined the fight against Tsung and Chi (other than trying to save the world) was for Lin Kuei PR. [[User:The S|The S]] 02:53, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Anyway, somewhat back to the original topic, I noticed that [[Bo' Rai Cho#Storyline|Bo' Rai Cho's article]] states that he helped train the [[Great Kung Lao]]. Now, since the Great Kung Lao lived 500 years before the Mortal Kombat tournament in which Liu Kang defeated Goro, that would mean that Bo' Rai Cho has lived for at least this long a time for him to have been able to train both. However, I can't find out where the claim that Bo' Rai Cho trained the Great Kung Lao came from. It's not mentioned in either his ''Deadly Alliance'' or ''Deception'' bios and endings. If this was true, it would definitely add credence (If not outright prove) the theory that humans in Outworld live longer than normal lives. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 02:00, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
:It might have been his Deadly Alliance Konquest mode. Unfortunately, I don't have time to verify. [[User:The S|The S]] 02:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

::Here is a transcript of Bo' Rai Cho's ''Deadly Alliance'' Konquest text thing: [http://tabmok99.mortalkombatonline.com/konquest-boraicho.html http://tabmok99.mortalkombatonline.com/konquest-boraicho.html]. It mentions the present Kung Lao, but nothing of his ancestor. This text also claims that Liu Kang is Bo' Rai Cho's first successful student "after many failures". Since the Great Kung Lao actually defeated Shang Tsung originally, I wouldn't consider him a "failure". I am removing the Great Kung Lao's name from Bo' Rai Cho's article for now until we can find definite evidence of him being a pupil at one time (Which doesn't seem to be quite easily verifiable as it has been so far). [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 02:53, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Sub-Zero... handing out business cards.... I'm not even gonna' bother. Annnyway, I think most of the 'Immortal Outworld resident' things, has mainly come from non-canon sources, such as the Conquest TV series, but we should still keep thinking of different instances and reasons for them...'''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 13:27, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
::For the record, I think the idea that Bo'Rai Cho trained the Great Kung Lao is probably an inference from a "Master Cho" in Conquest, which was written long before the idea of Bo'Rai Cho first came up. They bear no resemblence in appearance, personality or mannerisms. [[User:Virogtheconq|Virogtheconq]] 00:16, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

We Seem to have gotten off topic! Focus People![[User:Lego3400|Lego3400: The Sage of Time]] 00:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

== Project Directory ==

Hello. The [[WP:COUNCIL|WikiProject Council]] is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory]]. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:
*[[User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory]],
*[[User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2]],
*[[User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory]],
*[[User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory]],
*[[User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory]],
*[[User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States]], (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
*[[User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory]], and
*[[User:Badbilltucker/Science directory]]

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at [[User:B2T2/Portal]], listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory.
The three columns regarding [[:Category:WikiProject assessments|assessment]], [[:Category:WikiProject peer reviews|peer review]], and [[:Category:Wikipedia collaborations|collaboration]] are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters.
It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. [[User:Badbilltucker2|B2T2]] 21:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

:Directories reviewed, all existing information is relevant, and no information is missing. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 21:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
::Sorry for the mistake earlier. I forgot the links were all to the existing directory. I believe everything is correct, but it might stand review. Sorry for the mistake. [[User:Badbilltucker2|B2T2]] 00:11, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

==Ideas from contributers: A Good userbox==

I am a HUGE Mk fan and I wanted to share you my idea. Can you make a 2 boxed-userbox saying "This player likes Mortal Kombat" or something like that. I want the left ID box area to have the MK dragon on it and the right, Put the mortal kombat wikiproject logo on it.

I would appreciate it very much

-[[User:Storkian]]

:Well, you can't have the ''MK'' dragon in the template, as it is a copyrighted image. How about [[User:EVula/Userboxes/MK fan]]? [[User:EVula|EVula]] 18:00, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

RE from Storkian:
That works too... :-). Can you like maybe make a category named "Wikipedians who like Mortal Kombat" or something so whoever adds this template to their page they get added to that list? You are very helpful.

== Navigation Template ==

Whoever split the navigation Template for the entire MK series in half, fix it back. It was better the old way and much easier to navigate. {{unsigned|Donco}}

:The template was split (not by me) to address concerns that it was far too large, a concern I happen to agree with. Do you have any suggestions for a unified, but smaller, template? [[User:EVula|EVula]] 17:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

::At the very least, we ought to at least put a link to a media category or somesuch in the template - from what I can tell, none of the video/film productions are accessible within two clicks of that template (other than going through a character, of course). Personally, I think the primary reason the template was so large, the character roster, isn't that necessary, and ought to be removed - it can easily be replaced with a link to [[List of Mortal Kombat characters]] or somesuch.
::'''Note:''' copied over from [[Talk:Mortal Kombat (series)]]. [[User:Virogtheconq|Virogtheconq]] 18:23, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

==About the template split==
It seems that the old template was split into two: MK Media and MK Universe. However, I ''highly'' disagree with this change, and there doesn't appear to have even been a discussion regarding this beforehand. It is now much more difficult to navigate between the characters/universe stuff and the games themselves. Someone looking up Liu Kang and wanting to jump straight to the article covering the original ''MK'' game will have to muddle through his page looking for one link. Likewise, someone looking up one of the games and wanting to jump directly to one of the characters will have a hard time (Especially if the character isn't in that particular game). I propose the following changes so the templates can be combined:
*Remove individual listings of all the factions and simply include a "Factions" link under the Information heading. This is what had been done in the template long ago, and I'm not quite sure what was the reason for the change.
*Remove the individual listings of the television shows and include a "Television" link under the Other heading. The TV shows have been gone for some time now, and, although I happen to like both of them quite heartily, I don't think it's necessary to list both of them in the template.
*Remove the individual listings of the films and include a "Films" link under the Other heading. This is also how it had been in the template long ago. Yes, I know Devastation is upcoming and somewhat significant, but as of now, there's almost no information on the subject. The other two movies are quite old by now, and not really worthy of being included directly in the template. All the films, as a whole, aren't really vital to the ''MK'' series.
*Remove the somewhat redundant "Mortal Kombat" from many of the game titles. I've seen this done in another template somewhere, simply referring to the games in the template by their subtitle (i.e. just ''Armageddon'' as opposed to ''Mortal Kombat: Armageddon''). On a typical screen resolution of 1074x768, this saves about two lines in the template.
Total, these changes removes about eight lines from the template in a screen resolution of 1024x768 (Compare with [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Mortal_Kombat_series&oldid=81725207 this]). It might still look large, but I think this is made up by the all the information it is able to encompass in such a relatively small amount of space. Anyway, I feel this is much more manageable overall. Here is an example of what the template would look like with my proposed changes:

<div style="clear: both; border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; margin-top: .75em;" class="NavFrame">
<div style="background: #000000" class="NavHead">'''[[Mortal Kombat (series)|<span style="color: #f00">The ''Mortal Kombat'' Universe</span>]]'''
</div>
<div class="NavContent">
{| style="text-align: center;"
|-
! align="center" bgcolor="#707070"|[[:Category:Mortal Kombat games|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Principal Games</span>]]
|-
| align="center"|''[[Mortal Kombat (arcade game)|Mortal Kombat]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat II]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat 3]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat 4]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance|Deadly Alliance]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat: Deception|Deception]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat: Armageddon|Armageddon]]
|-
! align="center" bgcolor="#707070"|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Updates and</span> [[Porting|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Ports</span>]]
|-
| align="center"|''[[Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat Trilogy|Trilogy]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat Gold|Gold]]'' | ''[[Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3#Mortal Kombat Advance|Advance]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance#Mortal Kombat: Tournament Edition|Tournament Edition]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat: Unchained|Unchained]]''
|-
! align="center" bgcolor="#707070"|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Adventure Games</span>
|-
| align="center"|''[[Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat: Special Forces]]'' | ''[[Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks]]''
|-
! align="center" bgcolor="#707070"|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Main Characters</span>
|-
| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"|[[Ashrah]] | [[Baraka (Mortal Kombat)|Baraka]] | [[Blaze (Mortal Kombat)|Blaze]] | [[Bo' Rai Cho]] | [[Chameleon (Mortal Kombat)|Chameleon]] | [[Cyrax]] | [[Daegon]] | [[Dairou]] | [[Darrius]] | [[Drahmin]] | [[Ermac]] | [[Frost (Mortal Kombat)|Frost]] | [[Fujin (Mortal Kombat)|Fujin]] | [[Goro]] | [[Havik]] | [[Hotaru (Mortal Kombat)|Hotaru]] | [[Hsu Hao]] | [[Jade (Mortal Kombat)|Jade]] | [[Jarek]] | [[Jax (Mortal Kombat)|Jax]] | [[Johnny Cage]] | [[Kabal (Mortal Kombat)|Kabal]] | [[Kai (Mortal Kombat)|Kai]] | [[Kano (Mortal Kombat)|Kano]] | [[Kenshi]] | [[Khameleon]] | [[Kintaro (Mortal Kombat)|Kintaro]] | [[Kira (Mortal Kombat)|Kira]] | [[Kitana (Mortal Kombat)|Kitana]] | [[Kobra (Mortal Kombat)|Kobra]] | [[Kung Lao]] | [[Li Mei]] | [[Liu Kang]] | [[Mavado]] | [[Meat (Mortal Kombat)|Meat]] | [[Mileena]] | [[Mokap]] | [[Moloch (Mortal Kombat)|Moloch]] | [[Motaro]] | [[Nightwolf]] | [[Nitara]] | [[Noob Saibot]] | [[Onaga]] | [[Quan Chi]] | [[Raiden (Mortal Kombat)|Raiden]] | [[Rain (Mortal Kombat)|Rain]] | [[Reiko (Mortal Kombat)|Reiko]] | [[Reptile (Mortal Kombat)|Reptile]] | [[Sareena]] | [[Scorpion (Mortal Kombat)|Scorpion]] | [[Sektor]] | [[Shang Tsung]] | [[Shao Kahn]] | [[Sheeva]] | [[Shinnok]] | [[Shujinko]] | [[Sindel]] | [[Smoke (Mortal Kombat)|Smoke]] | [[Sonya Blade|Sonya]] | [[Kurtis Stryker|Stryker]] | [[Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)|Sub-Zero]] | [[Tanya (Mortal Kombat)|Tanya]] | [[Taven]]
|-
! align="center" bgcolor="#707070"|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Information</span>
|-
| align="center"|[[List of minor Mortal Kombat characters|Minor characters]] | [[:Category:Factions in Mortal Kombat|Factions]] | [[:Category:Realms of Mortal Kombat|Realms]] | [[List of Mortal Kombat species|Species]] | [[List of Mortal Kombat arenas|Arenas]] | [[:Category:MK Glossary|Glossary]] | [[Konquest (Mortal Kombat)|Konquest mode]] | [[The Mortal Kombat storyline|Storyline]]
|-
! align="center" bgcolor="#707070"|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Other</span>
|-
| align="center"|[[:Category:Mortal Kombat Films|Films]] | [[:Category:Mortal Kombat television series|Television]] | [[Mortal Kombat: Live Tour|Tour]] | [[:Category:Mortal Kombat media|Gallery]] | [[Mortal Kombat comic books|Comics]] | [[:Category:Mortal Kombat music|Music]] | [[Mortal Kombat Kard Game|Card Game]] | [[:Category:Mortal Kombat actors|Actors]]
|}</div></div>
Also, this actually takes up less vertical space than the [[Template:Soul series|Soul Calibur template]], which only covers an exceedingly smaller amount of information. In your face, competing franchise! [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 19:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

:Discussion for the change came from an over-arching discussion on the CVG project talk page (I saw it in my watchlist, but didn't participate in the actual discussion because I never had the time).

:Personally, I'm largely in favor of the cut-back to the template, if only because it had actually gotten too big. Your trimmed-back version, above, looks nice, and addresses the concerns that prompted the split in the first place. I've taken it one step forward, however; I reduced the font size for the character listings to 90%, which helps kill a bit more space.

:And yes, booya to Soul Calibur. {{tl|Street Fighter series}} can also suck it. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 19:15, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

::I cannot stress enough how much I dislike the template split, especially the fact that the discussion and the subsequent changes happened without informing this project beforehand. I understand that the "Universe" template was big, but it was very handy, for the reasons that MarphyBlack gave. The pros outweighed the cons, in my view. For that reason, I'd be more than happy to use the template that's displayed above. [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 20:27, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I have to agree. I find the split ''very'' inconvieniant (excuse the spelling). Instead of typing in the name of a game or something when I was on a character article, I would just scroll down and use the template, and vice versa. In order to compensate for what I am describing, we would have to put ''both'' templates on all pages, which is ridiculous, we may as well just revert back to the old template and put that on, so ''please'' can we just go back to the old one? There was absolutly nothing wrong with it, all it was was a slightly bit large, but so what? There are tons of templates across Wikipedia that are ''far'' larger. I mean, it's not like a large template is harming anyone. This template split sucks. '''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 20:27, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

:Template fixed, articles fixed, media template up for deletion. That was fun. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 17:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

::''Thank''you, EVula. Why that happened in the first place, I don't know. Glad that the original one has been restored! '''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 20:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Well, the old one ''was'' getting a little long in the tooth, and on the plus side, we've got a better template out of all this back and forth. Everybody wins! :-) As it is, I think I'll try tweaking the template (a duplicate) to see if I can maximize it just a bit more. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 20:57, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

::::This is just an idea... but would it be possible to split (oops, poor choice of words! :) ) the info into two columns? There's a bit of space at the sides of some sections. If, say, the "main characters" and the "information" were on the right hand side... would that help to bring the height down a little? [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 22:16, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::That would make the layout a little confusing, since it wouldn't be linear anymore.
:::Anyone have any comments on whether or not the (ginormous) list of characters should stay? [[User:Virogtheconq|Virogtheconq]] 02:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Personally, I think it should; the characters are one of the most important parts of the franchise, but picking individual characters to list would be unfair in my opinion. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 05:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

===After playing with the template a bit...===

I tried laying out the template horizontally, rather than vertically. Not so sure how I feel about it, but I'd rather get some feedback on my hard, hard work (read: about five minutes) rather than just trash it.

{{User:EVula/MK tmpl}}

Thoughts? Opinions? Revulsion and profanity, coupled with death threats? [[User:EVula|EVula]] 05:33, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

:''*Insert choice profanity here*'' It's not actually that bad, since there are a number of other series templates which use a similar format (I guess the operative phrase here would be "at worst mediocre"). It definitely cuts down on the required space, which is good. That being said, the original one was far more pretty. I guess it ultimately boils down to if we want utility (this one) or presentation (the original) - that's something where some outside opinions (CVG?) may come in handy. [[User:Virogtheconq|Virogtheconq]] 06:43, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

::I don't mind how it looks, providing that it is as useful as the original. However, I like the look of this one better. Moving the grey bars makes it look like there's more space than the original. [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 21:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I personally preffered the look of the other one, but I really don't care about how it looks, as long as it does the job, and this one seems to do it more efficiantly, so we may as well keep EVula's template. '''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 21:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

:About two weeks later, I remembered this and nobody has voiced any objections, so I'm throwing the switch. {{tl|Mortal Kombat series}} [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 19:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I have one little comment, You know those little lines, use them to seperate the sections.
----
^These...<nowiki>----</nowiki> Made like this! [[User:Lego3400|Lego3400: The Sage of Time]] 23:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

:This is what you're asking for:
{| align="center" style="font-size: 90%; text-align: center; margin:0 auto; clear: both; width: 90%; border: 1px solid #aaa; margin-top: .75em; background: #fafafa;"
|- style="background;"
! style="font-size: 110%; background: #000;" colspan="2" | '''[[Mortal Kombat (series)|<span style="color: #f00">The ''Mortal Kombat'' Universe</span>]]'''
|-
! style="background: #707070;" | [[:Category:Mortal Kombat games|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Principal Games</span>]]
| style="text-align: left; border-bottom: 1px solid #707070;" | ''[[Mortal Kombat (arcade game)|Mortal Kombat]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat II]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat 3]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat 4]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance|Deadly Alliance]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat: Deception|Deception]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat: Armageddon|Armageddon]]''
|-
! style="background: #707070;" | <span style="color: #FFD700;">Updates and</span> [[Porting|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Ports</span>]]
| style="text-align: left; border-bottom: 1px solid #707070;" | ''[[Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat Trilogy|Trilogy]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat Gold|Gold]]'' - ''[[Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3#Mortal Kombat Advance|Advance]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance#Mortal Kombat: Tournament Edition|Tournament Edition]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat: Unchained|Unchained]]''
|-
! style="background: #707070;" | <span style="color: #FFD700;">Adventure Games</span>
| style="text-align: left; border-bottom: 1px solid #707070;" | ''[[Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat: Special Forces]]'' - ''[[Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks]]''
|-
! style="background: #707070;" | <span style="color: #FFD700;">Main Characters</span>
| style="text-align: left; border-bottom: 1px solid #707070;" | [[Ashrah]] - [[Baraka (Mortal Kombat)|Baraka]] - [[Blaze (Mortal Kombat)|Blaze]] - [[Bo' Rai Cho]] - [[Chameleon (Mortal Kombat)|Chameleon]] - [[Cyrax]] - [[Daegon]] - [[Dairou]] - [[Darrius]] - [[Drahmin]] - [[Ermac]] - [[Frost (Mortal Kombat)|Frost]] - [[Fujin (Mortal Kombat)|Fujin]] - [[Goro (Mortal Kombat)|Goro]] - [[Havik]] - [[Hotaru (Mortal Kombat)|Hotaru]] - [[Hsu Hao]] - [[Jade (Mortal Kombat)|Jade]] - [[Jarek]] - [[Jax (Mortal Kombat)|Jax]] - [[Johnny Cage]] - [[Kabal (Mortal Kombat)|Kabal]] - [[Kai (Mortal Kombat)|Kai]] - [[Kano (Mortal Kombat)|Kano]] - [[Kenshi]] - [[Khameleon]] - [[Kintaro (Mortal Kombat)|Kintaro]] - [[Kira (Mortal Kombat)|Kira]] - [[Kitana (Mortal Kombat)|Kitana]] - [[Kobra (Mortal Kombat)|Kobra]] - [[Kung Lao]] - [[Li Mei]] - [[Liu Kang]] - [[Mavado]] - [[Meat (Mortal Kombat)|Meat]] - [[Mileena]] - [[Mokap]] - [[Moloch (Mortal Kombat)|Moloch]] - [[Motaro]] - [[Nightwolf]] - [[Nitara]] - [[Noob Saibot]] - [[Onaga]] - [[Quan Chi]] - [[Raiden (Mortal Kombat)|Raiden]] - [[Rain (Mortal Kombat)|Rain]] - [[Reiko (Mortal Kombat)|Reiko]] - [[Reptile (Mortal Kombat)|Reptile]] - [[Sareena]] - [[Scorpion (Mortal Kombat)|Scorpion]] - [[Sektor]] - [[Shang Tsung]] - [[Shao Kahn]] - [[Sheeva]] - [[Shinnok]] - [[Shujinko]] - [[Sindel]] - [[Smoke (Mortal Kombat)|Smoke]] - [[Sonya Blade|Sonya]] - [[Kurtis Stryker|Stryker]] - [[Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)|Sub-Zero]] - [[Tanya (Mortal Kombat)|Tanya]] - [[Taven]]
|-
! style="background: #707070;" | <span style="color: #FFD700;">Information</span>
| style="text-align: left; border-bottom: 1px solid #707070;" | [[List of minor Mortal Kombat characters|Minor characters]] - [[:Category:Factions in Mortal Kombat|Factions]] - [[:Category:Realms of Mortal Kombat|Realms]] - [[List of Mortal Kombat species|Species]] - [[List of Mortal Kombat arenas|Arenas]] - [[:Category:MK Glossary|Glossary]] - [[Konquest (Mortal Kombat)|Konquest mode]] - [[The Mortal Kombat storyline|Storyline]]
|-
! style="background: #707070;" | <span style="color: #FFD700;">Other</span>
| style="text-align: left;" | [[:Category:Mortal Kombat Films|Films]] - [[:Category:Mortal Kombat television series|Television]] - [[Mortal Kombat: Live Tour|Tour]] - [[:Category:Mortal Kombat media|Gallery]] - [[Mortal Kombat comic books|Comics]] - [[:Category:Mortal Kombat music|Music]] - [[Mortal Kombat Kard Game|Card Game]] - [[:Category:Mortal Kombat actors|Actors]]
|}
:...which I actually don't like as much. For such large expanses of copy, I think its better to let the eye draw the areas of distinction than to do it in the template. If we had more multi-line sections (like Main Characters), perhaps, but with the lines, the single-line content with multi-line headings (such as Updates and Ports) looks awfully open and bare. [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 15:05, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

== Infoboxes ==

Is there a way to alter the infobox so that it does not cut off the bottom part of the character's name? I was looking at [[Liu Kang]]'s page and it kind of looks like it says "Liu Kano" above the pic. I know the article still says "Liu Kang" at the top, but the 'box kind of irks me a little. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''サターン'''</font>]]・[[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''ヨッシー'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">HAPPY HALLOWEEN</font>]]</sup> 10:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

:Sorry mate, I can see the tail end of the "g" in the infobox (using IE7). Is it just the MK infoboxes you're having trouble with? [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 14:15, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

::I figured out the problem. It's the "skin" that I chose under preferences. I use the cologne blue one. Okay, disregard what I said then. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''サターン'''</font>]]・[[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''ヨッシー'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">HAPPY HALLOWEEN</font>]]</sup> 15:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

:I'm using cologne blue and I can see the "g" of the tail. [[User:The S|The S]] 18:01, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

== Strategy Guide information // Stable resource ==

I just happened to stumble across a relatively new wiki called [http://www.wikiknowledge.net/wiki/Main_Page WikiKnowledge]. One of the things that is allowed there is game guide material. Would it perhaps be a worthwhile investment of time if we were to create a comprehensive gaming guide for everything there? I'm talking about characters and games (moves, cheats, etc.). When users add that stuff to the Wikipedia articles, we could defer them to the WikiKnowledge guide instead. Also, it ''could'' become a worthwhile (and standardized) external link for most of the articles.

That said, it could also be a '''major''' pain in the ass to set up, with very little actual value being added to the project on the whole. :-)

So, anyway, just thought I'd bring it to everyone's attention. I'm not going to do it solo (since I'm actually working on starting my own wiki elsewhere), but if anyone else thinks this would be a good idea, I'd be happy to pitch in. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 21:19, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

:It's a good idea, and I'd be happy to help. I think there would have to be links in every game and character article, or a few editors won't take notice of any other directions to use that site instead. Once finished, there should be less hassle around here... [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 22:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

::Basiclly, ditto. Yeah I would be ready to help out also. '''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 22:47, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Well, crap. Right now I'm not sure how much I can do; [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/EVula|I'm up for adminship]] <small>(oh yes, I'm excited)</small>, so I need to see how much that will impact my wiki-time before I overload myself and go (completely) bonkers. :-)
:::If I get a mop, I figure I could start working on stuff in mid-January; if not, I could probably start doing some light work on it in mid-November. Really, the biggest hassle will just be figuring out how to effectively lay out all the information. [[User:EVula|EVula]] 23:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

::Tbh, EVula, I think it's about time you were up for becoming an Admin. Off topic here, you've done a shite load for this project, and from what I can tell, a thousand other articles. You have my support, because quite frankly, I can't think of anyone better for the job right now. And back on the proper subject, as I said, I'll help out where I can. '''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 00:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
:::Ego...growing...
:::What's really funny is that I hadn't played ''Mortal Kombat'' in quite a long time. I got involved in the project by just happening to look up what had happened in franchise since I stopped paying attention to it. Funny how Wikipedia can just suck you right in. :-) [[User:EVula|EVula]] 05:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
:Yay! Adminship for the EVula! That's something I'd never see for myself... too many conflicts with Admins on Wikipedia's "fancruft" policy... But I definately think you deserve it! [[User:The S|The S]] 16:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

::The best of luck with your RfA, EVula... but judging from the support you've got, you won't need it! And I'll still help out with the guide, whenever we get around to writing it. [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 14:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

== "Fighting styles" section ==
Recently a new sub-section was added to the "Combat characteristics" heading called "Fighting styles" to a few characters' articles (See [[Ermac#Fighting_styles|Ermac]], [[Reiko (Mortal Kombat)#Fighting_styles|Reiko]], and [[Tanya (Mortal Kombat)#Fighting_styles|Tanya]]). I was a bit confused by this addition at first, but then I realized that this is actually mentioned [[WP:MK/SG#Character articles|the MK article style guide]]. I just wanted to say that I feel opposed to such a section, as there is very little that can be said about the fighting styles of each character other than what style they had in what game (Something already covered in the infobox). Any more information than this could constitute original research or be on the verge of making the articles look like a game guide. Is there any particular reason for needing the "Fighting styles" sub-section? [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 23:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

:I can't think of a reason to keep this section. It can only serve to list a character's fighting styles, and repeat the infobox. Anything else I can think of would be against Wikipedia guidelines, or defeat the purpose of having articles on martial arts. So, I wouldn't mind if the sections on fighting styles were removed. [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 00:12, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

:Sorry, my bad. I added that on a whim, thinking "hmm, it'd be nice if we could say something about this", not fully realizing that it's almost impossible to do as much. :) [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 06:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
:I added them, thinking it wouldn't be against style guide, and I too, thought that it would be cool actually. However, it may be against Wikipedia rules, as you mentioned. If it is O.K., I can keep adding them and encourage other people to adding them, but if it's not, we can remove them anytime.[[User:Master Spider|Master Spider]] 14:57, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

== Armageddon story info from John Vogel ==
I'm currently observing [http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/ Mortal Kombat Online]'s Fight Night thing (Where the MK team is answering questions from the fans), and I just thought it would be useful to some here to see some of the more relevant story info being given by John Vogel (Irrelevant stuff not included):
*<'''DArqueBishop'''> Daniel W. Clark asks, "Hi Ed, it's me: the MK Kontest winner. Looking forward to facing you one on one in San Francisco in a couple of weeks! Anyway, here's my question: How did the Mortal Kombat: Deception storyline resolve itself? (i.e. did Shujinko stop Onaga? Did Onaga find someway to ressurect every kombatant using the amulet and kamidogus? etc.) Thanks and prepare yourself!"
*<'''John-Vogel'''> Onaga was defeated primarily by shujinko. There are hints in a couple of the endings as to how it played out.
*<''']{0MBAT'''> Did the Kamidogus get smashed? Did Dark Raiden ever get in a fight with Shujinko?
*<'''John-Vogel'''> the kamidogus used in deception were destroyed (like in the gameplay) to weaken onaga
*<'''John-Vogel'''> they were the source of Onaga's power during that period
*<'''John-Vogel'''> onaga didn't ressurect everyone
*<'''John-Vogel'''> sontimes people are only THOUGHT to be dead
*<'''John-Vogel'''> some are ressurected by other means
*<''']{0MBAT'''> How are Reptile and Onaga separated?
*<'''John-Vogel'''> there is a clue in Sindel's ending from Deception that shows that Onaga's soul can be taken from Reptile... which allows reptile to revert back to himself..
*<'''M4C'''> On a related note, shinken asks, "Are the MKA bios going to be released online?"
*<'''John-Vogel'''> Sindel's ending is not real.. i'm just showin ya stuff...
*<'''John-Vogel'''> nightwolf's ending plays a part as well
*<'''Ed-Boon'''> Yes. We are going to be releasing the bio's on www.mkarmageddon.com
*<'''John-Podlasek'''> Yeah, in the forums section....
*<'''Ed-Boon'''> > You will get the answers to all the questions you've had concerning the Armageddon storyline and perhaps even hints as to where it goes next
Some juicy bits here. While I'm sure the full transcript will be up later, this can be a mini-Wiki exclusive for the short duration. :P

On Khameleon:
*<''']{0MBAT'''> A lot of people are asking about (the female) Khameleon and her not appearing in the game. Why was she ommitted?
*<'''Ed-Boon'''> Actually we originally were not going to be including ANY of the Chameleon characters, or Motaro. But we had SO MANY people ask for them that we decided to add them. Steve Beran created the model in a super short amount of time and Pav (Kovakik) created Motaro super fast as well. In retrospect, I wish we had the time to make Khameleon as well. But we hope 62 characters was enough for you.
*<''']{0MBAT'''> Any plans of including her on the Wii?
*<'''Ed-Boon'''> I wouldn't put $$ on it.
*<'''John-Podlasek'''> Wii'll see
*<'''John-Vogel'''> 8\
*<''']{0MBAT'''> John (Vogel)... how about the female Saurian in Reptile's ending?
*<'''John-Podlasek'''> And to think I'm totally sober....
*<'''Ed-Boon'''> I do admit it would be Wii-lee cool
*<''']{0MBAT'''> Was the Khameleon? Or the matriarch of Reptile's race? (Or both...?)
*<'''John-Vogel'''> The female that appears is most likely a new matriarch. Reptile has been bummin for a long time about his race being wiped out.. we though it would be cool to allow him to finally get things started again.. and another race of ninjas is always a good thing...
[[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 03:00, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


So there ''are'' going to be bios that explain what happened to the fighters before ''Armageddon''. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 03:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

:Full transcript: [http://www.mortalkombatwarehouse.com/FightNight2006.html http://www.mortalkombatwarehouse.com/FightNight2006.html]. The only other story tidbit is related to Fujin intervening Taven at the Red Dragon base. Everything else is mainly Armageddon gameplay mechanics/features related. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 03:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

== Article assessment ==

Your project was set up to take part in article assessment according to the criteria of the Wikipedia:Version 1.0 editorial team about a month ago. As of today, you have yet to actually assess any articles. Clearly, we welcome any project engaging in this sort of assessment, but would have to wonder about whether your project is interested in engaging in such assessment. On that basis, I would request that members of your project begin assessing the articles within the scope of your project, both for yourselves, the Version 1.0 team, and wikipedia in general. If you have any questions about assessments, please feel free to contact me directly. Thank you. [[User:Badbilltucker|Badbilltucker]] 17:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

:Well, no articles have been assessed because I (the only person to work on it) never finished completing the backend stuff, having gotten sidetracked with other editing duties (no clue what it was, though). I'll see about finishing up the work I started, though. [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 18:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
::You have no idea how much I sympathize with you on being sidetracked. If you want any help organizing the assessment, though, just let me know and I'll see what I can do to help. [[User:Badbilltucker|Badbilltucker]] 18:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

== Naming of episode articles in [[List of Mortal Kombat Conquest episodes]] ==

Greetings, Mortal Kombat editors!

As you may be aware, for the last several weeks there has been extensive discussion at [[Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television)]] about how Wikipedia articles on television episodes should be named. Editors from many areas of Wikipedia, including members of several different television WikiProjects, have worked together and come up with a [[Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television)#Episode articles|general guideline]] that article titles should include disambiguating phrases only when there is another article on Wikipedia with the same name as the episode name. Thus, if you were creating episode articles for ''[[Knight Rider]]'', the episode [[Circus Knights]] would not need any disambiguation, whereas [[Nobody Does It Better (Knight Rider)]] would, in order to differentiate it from [[Nobody Does It Better (song)]]. However, the guideline also recommends that [[Circus Knights (Knight Rider)]] exist as a redirect to the episode.

This means the episode articles linked from [[List of Mortal Kombat Conquest episodes]] will be moved if they are using unneeded disambiguation.

The discussion has been fairly well-advertised at the Village Pump, in many WikiProjects' talk pages and on the talk pages of many television program episode lists. However, the editors contributing to the discussion at [[WP:TV-NC]] felt that it was appropriate to make one last call at affected WikiProjects for discussion before people started moving episode articles to new names.

We appreciate the work that editors do in every area of Wikipedia, and want you to feel included in the decision-making process. Thank you for your help! {{unsigned|Yaksha}}

:Having never been one to wait for someone else to do it, I've gone through the table and moved the appropriate articles, and fixed the links. [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 04:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

===Request for comment - naming of episode articles===
There is currently an active debate at [[Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television)]] about the naming of episode articles, such as when it is appropriate to use a suffix such as (<series name> episode), and whether or not WikiProjects should have the right to set guidelines for their particular shows. Any interested editors are invited to comment, at [[Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (television)#Request for comment]]. --[[User:Elonka|Elonka]] 09:00, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
:Actually, that's not what's being debated. The issue is whether wikiprojects can set guidlines '''that contradict the global guidelines of wikipedia'''. There hasn't been a single argument that wikiprojects shouldn't have the right to make their own guidelines. --[[User:Milo H Minderbinder|Milo H Minderbinder]] 14:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

== Vandal crackdown ==

Now that I'm an admin <small>(mwuhahaha)</small>, I can be a bit more pro-active in taking care of vandals. However, I need some help from you guys (trying to avoid saying "y'all"). When you revert vandalism, please warn the user (even if its an anon) with an [[WP:WARN|appropriate warning tag]]. Tagging repeat vandals with the proper warnings helps make it very easy to justify my banning of the user.

For example, [[User talk:70.162.68.87|Mr. 70.162.68.87]] has had some fun over at [[Blaze (Mortal Kombat)]], getting reverted first by SaturnYoshi, then by MarphyBlack. After the first time, I warned him with {{tl|test2}}. Once it became obvious he was a bit of an idiot, I kicked it up a notch with {{tl|test4}}. Next time he vandalizes, he'll be getting a nice fat ban, which will also help me get drunk with power... if the latter part is disconcerting, just ignore it. ;-)

So, anyway, please start warning the vandals. I'll almost certainly see your "vandalism" summaries in my watchlist and will try to watch the warned editor; if I see that final warning get applied, I'll be sure to jump on them the next time they vandalize. [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 22:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

:I've noticed for a while that people will revert vandalism, but not really warn the vandal about it afterwards. I warn the vandals as much as I can, but there's only really been one vandal who has continually made attacks on certain MK pages (well, one that I'm really opposing), and the main reason that little can be done about him is because he constantly changes his IP. But anyway, yeah, I warn vandal's as frequently as possible, so I'll help you out whenever I can, and taddle on them if they carry on ;) '''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 22:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

::The first time he/she was reverted, I thought the person was misinformed. Afterwards he/she stated that a pic in X-Box Magazine calls Blaze Meat. Should we leave a warning after their first edit, or wait until it repeats? -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 22:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

:Okay, but I haven't issued any warnings before. It's a mental thing - I'm used to judging ''edits'', but not ''editors'', if you follow me *shrugs*. Anyway, if I spot any vandalism, I'll warn the editor. [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 01:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

::Yay, I got my first ban in today, for a user that Rob had warned. [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 17:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

:::That was the first user I've warned... and they bloody ignored me! Ha! Good work, EVula. :) [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 19:45, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

== Reclassifying "recurring" fatalities ==
For a while now, a lot of us have been removing the ''Deception''-only fatalities in character articles because they only appeared in that one game. However, ''[[Mortal Kombat: Unchained]]'' has just been recently released, and it's basically just ''Deception'' with extra characters, meaning that their fatalities finally do recurr by appearing in more than one game. However, I don't quite agree with this logic. I believe that we need to reconsider what we are defining as "recurring" (Or perhaps drop the whole "recurring" thing and devise a new title. More on that later). As of now, we are considering ''MK3'', ''UMK3'', and ''MKT'' as separate games. I don't quite agree with this, as they're all essentially the same game being upgraded. The same goes for ''MK4'' and ''MKG''. I believe that the separate games we should actually count should be as follows:
*''Mortal Kombat''
*''Mortal Kombat II''
*''Mortal Kombat 3'' / ''Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3'' / ''Mortal Kombat Trilogy''
*''Mortal Kombat 4'' / ''Mortal Kombat Gold''
*''Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance'' / ''Tournament Edition'' (Only applies to TE-exclusive characters, if they even have fatalities in the game)
*''Mortal Kombat: Deception'' / ''Unchained''
*''Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero ''
*''Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks''
Rather unfortunately, by using this system, that means several characters simply will not have any recurring fatalities. For example, Kabal's fatalities in ''MK3'' do not appear again in ''Deception''. Obviously, characters introduced in ''Deception'' will have nothing. This is where the conflict comes in, and perhaps worthy of a discussion. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 21:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

:I couldn't agree more when it comes to MKT, MK3 and UMK3 all being the same, and counting it (as well as 4 and G) as separate games when it came to this has annoyed me greatly. Personally, I agree completely with what your saying, even if it means some characters don't get any Fatalities down at all... but really, does it matter? I mean, is listing all of their fatalities really ''that'' encyclopedic? If it were up to me, I'd leave them in, but do as you proposed, even if it means some characters lose their fatalities. '''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 21:18, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

::I agree. I'd suggest that the notation is changed (in fatalities and signature moves), to try to get this point across to those who don't read this page. I'll take [[Liu Kang]] as an example. Instead of using this notation: "'''Dragon'''... (MKII, MK3, UMK3, MKT, MK4, MKG, MK:SM)", we could use this notation (or similar): "'''Dragon'''... (MKII, MK3 +updates, MK4 +update, MK:SM)". [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 16:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

:::I also agree with this grouping 100%. As it turns out, only a handful of characters have "true" recurring Fatalities.
:::*Baraka (impale)
:::*Cyrax (self destruct)
:::*Jax (head pop)
:::*Johnny Cage (decap uppercut)
:::*Kano (heart rip)
:::*Kitana (decap and kiss (varies))
:::*Kung Lao (hat throw (varies))
:::*Liu Kang (dragon and roundhouse uppercut)
:::*Mileena (inhale and nail spit)
:::*Raiden (shock explode)
:::*Reptile (acid bath (varies))
:::*Scorpion (toasty)
:::*Sektor (flame thrower)
:::*Shang Tsung (soul steal (varies))
:::*Sonya (kiss (varies))
:::*Sub-Zero (freeze and shatter (varies))
:::I may have missed some, but this is only about one quarter of all the main characters. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 09:32, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

:To further expand on what Rob said, I think it'd be fine as he put it, except leaving out the '+updates' part. We should do what is done across the articles, and (in the case of Liu Kang) simply put:
:"'''Dragon'''... (MKII, MKT, MKG, MK:SM)"
:Therefore choosing the most recent of the updates. I mean this in the sense that when explaining the plot of certain characters, we have said something like "During the events of Mortal Kombat Gold" or the same, but with Trilogy. Therefore, we are picking the most recent of the updates, as they all follow the same events. '''<font color="Indigo">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 13:09, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

::I think that for the sake of simplicity, we should just keep listing all games rather than just one update. There are a few very strange anomolies where a character doesn't have a particular characteristic in a previous update in a game: for example, Stryker's gun move appeared in first appeared ''UMK3'' and not ''MK3'' (I know we're talking about fatalities, but just bear with me :P ). There are also characters introduced in ''UMK3'' and ''MKG'' who did not appear in the previous game version, so for the benefit of those who are not familiar with all the Mortal Kombat games, listing all of them would be most helpful.
::Anyway, I also wanted to say that I believe there are also certain exceptions to this "non-recurring" fatalities rule. For instance, the heart rip fatality is signature to many Black Dragon members, but only Kano had it in more than one game (Jarek and Kobra both only had it in one game). This is pretty insignificant, though, so I'll just leave it at that for now. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 20:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

:::Again, I'd just like to say that I think the fatalaties is a bit unenclyclopedic anyway. To avoid this mess, we probably should get rid of them.... but I'm cool with them staying here. '''<font color="Indigo">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 20:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

::If we keep these in, I'd be more comfortable if all of the games a move appeared in are listed. I'm concerned that only using an update (especially the one-console exclusives) could encourage edits where the (more common) original is added (if that particular character or move is in the original). Perhaps we could keep the notation as it is, but group the updates together with a slash: "'''Dragon'''... (MKII, MK3/UMK3/MKT, MK4/MKG, MK:SM)". Characters or moves which are not in an original title would still have that title omitted from the listing. [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 21:21, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
:::I've got a question here. Are ''Deception'' and ''Deadly Alliance'' (Jax, Kitana and Frost only) fatalities are considered as recurring? They are also appeared on ''Unchained'' too? [[User:Master Spider|Master Spider]] 15:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

== Attire sections? ==

Should we have attire or appearance sections for each character, like [[Street Fighter (series)|Street Fighter]] characters had? We would write how did they got image makeovers, and it would contribute to all character articles I think. Opinions appreciated. [[User:Master Spider|Master Spider]] 17:15, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

:Just mentioning their clothing? I dunno, not only does it appear a bit unencyclopedic to me, but it also seems to be a bit of a waste. I mean, I can barely stand the damn Finisher and Moves list being there, due to all the edit wars and it's unencyclopedic nature, this just sounds somewhat irrelevant to me. Sorry if I shot down your idea, it would be interesting, but it doesn't really add to an encyclopedia. '''<font color="green">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 18:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, covering the development of the characters through the various games (which would include their costumes) ''could'' be fairly cool (and could be encyclopedic, if handled properly). For example, a section about Kabal could mention how he was initially a neutral character in ''MK3'', and how his hookswords were only visible during extended combos, or how Sindel was more of an evil character when she was introduced (at least, that's how I saw it). [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 18:48, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
:I was actually thinking of doing that for the characters in lieu of a full rewrite, since it falls into a decent [[WP:WAF|out-of-universe]] entry. [[User:Virogtheconq|Virog]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Virogtheconq|It's not]]</sup><sub>[[User_talk:Virogtheconq|my fault!]]</sub> 05:52, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
:I thought it could be turn out as encyclopedic too. For example, on [[Rain (Mortal Kombat)|Rain]]'s article, it can be mentioned that why he changed his attire from classic ninja suit to a more royal-oriented attire (because he learned his Edenian heritage), or why [[Li Mei]] started to wear armor (gained it from Dragon King's army, as her soul was already transported to them). And, not also clothing, but noticeable changes at overall looks-for example, [[Bo' Rai Cho]] has a beard unlike ''Deadly Alliance'', [[Tanya (Mortal Kombat)|Tanya]] has long hair unlike ''MK4'', etc. EVula's idea would be good also. [[User:Master Spider|Master Spider]] 15:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
::When you put it like Spider just did, I'm more open to the idea - it does sound pretty interesting. '''<font color="Indigo">[[User:The Haunted Angel|The Haunted Angel]]</font>''' <sup>([[User talk:The Haunted Angel|The Forest Whispers My Name]])</sup> 22:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
::Thank you. We can add these info under the subtitle "Appearance", which fits best. Here's an example of what it could have been look like:
<div style="width:55%; background-color:#fff3f3; border:1px solid #ffc9c9;padding:1em;padding-top:0.5em; color: black">
<div style="float:left;margin-right:0.9em">
</div>
Along her presentations at ''Deadly Alliance'' and ''Deception'', Li Mei mostly wears clothes which reveals most of her body. In ''Deception'', due to her almost-successful soul transport to Onaga's army, she wears more battle-oriented and armor like clothes.

Li Mei had a large face makeover between ''Deadly Alliance'' and ''Deception''. In ''Deadly Alliance'', she had big, green eyes and big lips, however, in ''Deception'' she had small, brown eyes and smaller lips. Her alternate costume in ''Deception'' still keeps her ''Deadly Alliance'' face model.

Li Mei looks vaguely Asian, like most Outworld residents.
</div>

Any ideas and such? [[User:Master Spider|Master Spider]] 16:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

:::Hey, isn't there anybody responding? [[User:Master Spider|Master Spider]] 15:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Sorry, I've been busy with other stuff lately and haven't been giving ''MK'' stuff the same attention that I used to.
::::I think that looks good, and is a good starting point for the other characters (like Reptile, who could have a considerable amount written about his evolution). [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 16:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Thanks a lot! Then I'm adding it to the style guide, if it is okay, and starting to writing info to Li Mei. It shouldn't be too hard for most of the characters, especially the ones that have a makeover for ''Armageddon''. I'll start to write in light-speed. :) [[User:Master Spider|Master Spider]] 17:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Okay, I have added an "Appearance" section to the [[WP:MK/SG|style guide]]. Only Li Mei and Sareena has this section for now, but it is only a beginning for now. I hope it will work better. [[User:Master Spider|Master Spider]] 17:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

== What to Include re: hidden characters ==

Should it be included for each game in the section detailing the hidden characters how to activate battles against them? It's not in there now, and it would be pretty short, so it seems that it could be added without causing any damage. But is this sort of info considered to be desirable? -[[User:Sopoforic|Sopoforic]] 22:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

:Documenting the existence of hidden characters is encyclopedic, whereas stating the exact way to find them is borderline game guide, which Wikipedia is not. [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 22:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

:The policy here states that Wikipedia is not a game guide, so it's best to avoid such information since it isn't quite encyclopedic. However, I would say that there are a few exceptions, such as mentioning the quite infamous requirements necessary to fight Reptile in the original arcade game. I'm sure that some of these unlocking methods are already mentioned for whatever reason, but generally they should be avoided if they're simply being indiscriminately stated. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 22:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

==No progress==
I marked up MK pages with more then 6 trivia the other day. I said back in September there is too much trivia on the pages yet nothing (hardly) has been done. Really, if the information in the trivia section is THAT important to keep, write it into the main article. A trivia section should consist of no more then half a dozen facts that don't tie into the main article, not a whole page of 15 (in some cases) or more trivia bits of info. Surely, in that amount of trivia 3 or 4 of them can tie together anyway to be placed n the main article.

If you can't write it into the article, decide on whether or not its really important to keep it at all. The huge trivia on some of the pages is bringing down those pages quality and is a poor way of displaying the information at the least.

Someone try and sort this out, it really won't take that long to do. [[User:Angel Emfrbl|Angel Emfrbl]] 10:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
:Given that there's 60-some character pages, plus all the associated game/media pages (which all suffer from the same problems, IMO), it's more than "not that long." Agreed it needs to be fixed, but it's something I've been putting off due to the sheer size of the project. [[User:Virogtheconq|Virog]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Virogtheconq|It's not]]</sup><sub>[[User_talk:Virogtheconq|my fault!]]</sub> 19:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

The trivia is getting so annoying. The MKII article's Trivia got cut down considerably, so what do people do? They start adding it to the "Easter eggs" section! [[User:Buzda|Buzda]] 20:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

:There's a major push for the removal of all trivia from all articles, which I'm strongly against. Sorry, but sometimes trivia isn't evil. Yes, some of the trivia could be trimmed, but the out-right removal of the section is silly.

:As for MKII, what's the problem? If we're supposed to spin out related trivia items into their own sections, and someone did exactly that, what exactly is the problem? [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 20:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

::I'm not with the guys against the trivia sections on articles, I kinda like having trivias, but I think there is a limit to how much trivia you can have. You don't have to delete the whole trivia section, just write it into the main article, keeping only about half a dozen things that just don't fit in no matter what. As I said, with 15 trivia tad-bits, some of it must link together enough to fit into the main article. [[User:Angel Emfrbl|Angel Emfrbl]]

== Add Revisions section to MK arcade games? ==

What do you think? [[User:Buzda|Buzda]] 20:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think so, because it'd be a very listy-type section (generally not a great idea), and not very encyclopedic, since all it basically entails is gameplay differences (aside from fixing crash issues, etc.). It'd be better to have one or two sentences describing the difference between the initial arcade release and the final revision in the general summary. [[User:Virogtheconq|Virog]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Virogtheconq|It's not]]</sup><sub>[[User_talk:Virogtheconq|my fault!]]</sub> 20:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

:Just out of curiousity, were any really significant changes made with the arcade revisions? I know a few big ones were made with ''MK4'', but I haven't heard of much on any of the revisions for the previous arcade games. Were the console ports based on any particular revisions? [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 17:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

::''MKII'' had a series of revisions as well, one of which was to fix the "Babality glitch". There is an external link with more info on this on the [[Babality]] page. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 17:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

== Some innacuracies and an observation ==

I have some issues with the accuracy of the character articles. So far 3 have drew my attention as of now (also, if this is mentioned in some source I'm not aware, please inform me):

* Baraka: <i>Their second chance at obtaining power, after Mileena was resurrected during the events of Mortal Kombat Trilogy, failed as well.</i>

Since when they have a 2nd attempt? Baraka's MKT profile AND ending doesn't mention this, and while Mileena's UMK3 ending did have Baraka as partner, that was later retconned in favor of a Shinnok-related ending. Baraka's ending states he fell in disfavor after letting some Earthrealm warriors escape, so he planned to attack a weakened Shao Kahn after out of fear for his punishment (which could very well be true as it doesn't contradict anything, since he would not have a chance due to Shao Kahn's defeat at Liu Kang's hands). I'd change the story, but I don't know if this would be right. Either this or remove that phrase, since the latest installment of the MK3 history (MKT) doesn't mention any interaction between the two.

* Mokap: His article says he fought on the Deadly Alliance tournament and survived the battle at the opening of Deception. There's no place that I know where that is stated, as Mokap in DA was supposed to be on Earthrealm. I know his new story of being randomly teleported, but that wouldn't mean he participated in any of those events. Unless proof of his participation exists, I would suggest a change. Also, his DA profile is no canon, since "Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance" the film never existed, unless Onaga-controlled Johnny had time to make it :P. State it was his original profile, now retconned, or remove it.

* Sheeva: Where is stated she lost to Kitana and Jade, she found Shao Khan betraying the Shokan and her joining the failed Shokan counterattack? At the very least, she did found Shao Kahn punished the Shokan out to favour the Centaurs (as her ending states), but unless there's some place where her Kitana/Jade battle occured, I think her story should be rewrote.

And as last, a little observation on Shang Tsung: Shao Kahn in the official MK2 comic (the one wrote by Tobias), he states Shang Tsung ''died'' in Earthrealm, and that his rejuvenation would prove a "reborn" on Outworld. Here's a transcript:

Shao Kahn - "...Shang Tsung, '''your life no longer exists in the Earth Realm'''. Therefore, I will grant you a '''new physical form'''. One that will replenish your powers of sorcery and fool the Earth Gods into allowing your soul through the dimensional gate."

Dunno, though it would be worth for his history or atleast make for an interesting Trivia point and clarification on his Earthrealm/Outworld status. Though that doesn't help the plothole with Bo'Rai Cho...

Well, awaiting the help on these matters. Thanks. [[User:201.255.15.94|201.255.15.94]] 02:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

: You are definitely right about Mileena and Sheeva. These two points don't seem to be based on any real facts; the former being based on her old retconned ''UMK3'' ending and the latter seemingly simply being made up. I'll remove them as such. However, Mokap's ''Deadly Alliance'' bio is a bit of a mystery. I have yet to see an actual bio of a character be considered non-canon (unless totally retconned), especially since the bios are supposed to be covering the past/already occurred events of the character in the storyline by that point in time. While Mokap may be a joke character, some recently revealed events may hint that his bio could be true. Specifically, both Kitana's and Jax's bios in the PSP game ''MK: Unchained'' reveal that they and the rest of Liu Kang's friends were freed from Onaga's control '''before''' the final battle with Onaga himself occurred. It's not really clear how much time passed between ''Deadly Alliance'' and ''Deception'', but it's quite possible and even somewhat logical to deduce that Mokap's bio could have occurred shortly after the events of ''DA'', after the ''Deception'' intro, but before Onaga was defeated. In fact, this could even explain Johnny Cage's (and to a lesser extent, Mokap's) absence from ''Unchained'' (He was making his rad new movie at the time. Also, he probably had to make that other movie that's advertised in ''Armageddon''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s subway stage). I know this seems like a whole lot of assuming, but unless it was outright retconned, I don't think we should be deciding what bios are or are not canon. At this point, I'm sure much of the ''Mortal Kombat'' storyline should be taken with a grain of salt.

:As for Shang Tsung, that's an interesting point. However, I'm not so sure if that's truly confirming that he died. Shao Kahn may simply mean that the concept of "life" as we know it and whatnot is different in Outworld, thus the regular rules don't apply there. If Shang Tsung had really died and somehow were revived, thus changing his origin, I believe that he would probably have gone to the Netherealm rather than Outworld as this seemed to be the game's established afterworld by that point in the story. Still, this is somewhat grasping at straws over an issue that will most likely not be clarified any time soon. I doubt Tobias had planned for Shang Tsung's confused true place of origin, much less Bo' Rai Cho's plot point this far ahead of time.

:Anyway, I think what you have brought up has been helpful. If you see anything else inaccurate, I encourage you to point it out as well. Of course, don't forget that you can also edit the articles yourself, but I don't mind the discussion. :) [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 23:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

::After doing a bit of reading, it seems that Sheeva's ''MK3'' ending may be true up until the point at which she kills Shao Kahn (With her being stabbed through the chest by Kahn with a sword instead. Same difference). This would mean that Kahn truly did turn against the Shokan in an offensive against them, helping the side of the Centaurs. This part of the ending would explain why the Shokan and Centaurs are at complete war against each other and in talks of a peace treaty in the ''MK4'' comic (One Centaur claims to Kitana that she's "no better than Shao Kahn," possibly referring to Kahn's support and false promises to the race) and this ending also explains how Kitana was able to ally with the Shokan against Kahn's armies in ''Deadly Alliance'' (Since he turned against them, this would be no surprise). In this case, I'm removing the Kitana and Jade part from Sheeva's article, but the part about her finding Kahn turning against her race appears to be true. More views on this are welcome. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 00:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

:::Glad that helped. That was my idea with Sheeva. I think that most first parts from endings (as long as they are not contradicting stated facts) can be considered canon. I did think that Sheeva's first part is canon, more or less for what you said. I also think Baraka's MKT ending first half is as well, since that would explain why he left Shao Kahn instead of staying with him, and then he lost his chance due to Liu Kang's beating him first. And I see what you said with Mokap, though I was more troubled by the next:

''It is unknown how Mokap '''entered the tournament that Shang Tsung and Quan Chi had presented'''. According to Mortal Kombat: Deception's Konquest mode, he doesn't even know how he ended up in Outworld. '''Regardless of how he competed in the tournament, he fought for the side of Earthrealm'''. Although all of Earthrealm's fighters were killed by the Deadly Alliance (and revived by Onaga), '''Mokap returned unharmed'''.''

Those are my grieves. Mokap has yet to be stated entering the tournament of the DA (I assume its a reference to the tourny Li Mei entered, because DA wasn't a tournament). And there's also no statement he ever joined Raiden's team to raid Tsung's temple. Unless I'm mistaken, this paragrash should be rewriten with the known information, instead of filling in dubious events.

I'll get to make minor fixes when I see mistakes, though in these matters I think its better to ask, since I'm yet to see the whole Card bios set and I can be missing something. [[User:201.255.28.194|201.255.28.194]] 07:08, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

:Gotcha. I edited Mokap's article to remove the references of him being involved in a tournament since his involvment as a whole in the storyline of that particular game is quite vague. I'm assuming that he did something somehow (Most likely massively minor, trivial, and insignificant that had no bearing on the final outcome) as it seems to be just part of his story that he winds up in the wrong places at the wrong time, but where and when specifically we obviously cannot be sure. [[User:MarphyBlack|MarphyBlack]] 07:32, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

== Character select ==

Should screenshots of the fighter select screens be added to the ''Deadly Alliance'', ''Deception'' and ''Unchained'' pages? I noticed that they are the only game articles in the series to not have one. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 19:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

:Yeah, I think that would be good... and the ''Armageddon'' select screen could do with updating. :) [[User:RobWill80|RobWill80]] 20:37, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

::I'll look around for some, then. ;) -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 01:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

== Stablepedia ==

''Beginning cross-post.''
:See [[Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia]]. If you wish to comment, please comment there. [[User:Messedrocker|<font color="red">★<small>MESSED</small></font>]][[User talk:Messedrocker|<font color="red"><small>ROCKER</small>★</font>]] 00:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
''End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.''

== Height and Weight of several Mortal Kombat-characters ==

Their Height and Weight are very important items. These have to be noted. Otherwise I'm unsatisfied because Wikipedia is the best page for informations and it would be an offending to remove further informations from Mortal Kombat-characters like their Heights and Weights. [[User:Pooter-the-clown|Pooter-the-clown]] 09:00, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, most characters don't have official heights and weights, as far as I know. [[User:The S|The S]] 16:11, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

:Exactly ''how'' are height and weight important? [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 16:00, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:18, 22 December 2006

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games/Mortal_Kombat/Archive_3&oldid=95976608"