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: {{u|Fowler&fowler}}, could you look into this when you have some time? [[User:SerChevalerie|SerChevalerie]] ([[User talk:SerChevalerie|talk]]) 07:19, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
: {{u|Fowler&fowler}}, could you look into this when you have some time? [[User:SerChevalerie|SerChevalerie]] ([[User talk:SerChevalerie|talk]]) 07:19, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

: The reason I brought this up is this. The New York Times article does not even mention this line, still it was included to cite the first line of this article, which itself is very controversial. The Guardian article does mention "... that the Delhi police played in enabling the violence, which was predominately Hindu mobs attacking Muslims. Of the 51 people who died, at least three-quarters were Muslim, and many Muslims are still missing.", but the article is predominantly about police brutality and the only context given for this line is that more Muslims were killed in comparison to Hindus. Again, I am not contesting the validity of this line, but the support of reliable sources in relation to it. I strongly think that as this is a very controversial statement among Indians, several reliable sources should be mentioned. Also, why was The New York Times article was mentioned here and noone noticed it? That article is completely about Modi's and his party's Hindu nationalist policies which led to violence. That article never mentions "violence was chiefly done by Hindu mobs" still it is cited to support this very statement.

Revision as of 18:23, 6 June 2020

Template:IPA AE

1RR now in effect

Please be mindful, everyone. El_C 14:39, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can this fact be included in a new section or mentioned somewhere in the article. Zikrullah (talk) 18:03, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is noted in in the article whenever one edits, in Template:Editnotices/Page/2020 Delhi riots, as well as at the top of this talk page in Template:IPA AE. El_C 18:52, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fowler&fowler's: Developing the article main body, and eventually rewriting the lead (in POV-embattled India-related articles)

"POV-embattled," by the way, means battlements of POV dot, litter, even crisscross the topic. This is long, but please bear with me. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:56, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Stage 1

The lead which is locked in the article right now is a summary of the topic, not the main body. It has due weight and overall reliability. In Stage 1, we have cited and summarized content from newspapers:

  • (a) which have correspondents based in India.
  • (b) whose articles (which are of interest to us) have bylines (i.e. the name of the correspondents shows up below the title of their story) and
  • (c) which are published in liberal democracies where there is no significant POV around this issue. (i.e. South Asian newspapers have been ruled out at this stage.)

We have cited from: NYTimes, Washington Post, Independent, Guardian, Times (London), and Le Monde. (There are obviously others as well, which we did not use. I will make a list elsewhere of newspapers which have correspondents based in India.)

By definition, the lead will not have all the notable details. The sources it cites may not have all the notable details either, because their main audience (an international one) may not be conversant with, or generally interested in, all local details. For expansion, therefore, you will need to look at the reliable high-quality Indian sources whose perspectives match the one in the lead, which now serves as a template of DUE.

Stage 2

In my view, for recent Indian events just six national newspapers in India are enough for fleshing out the details:

The Statesman (Kolkata, founded 1875/1817), The Hindu (Chennai, founded 1878), The Free Press Journal (Mumbai, founded 1928), The Indian Express (Delhi, founded 1933), Deccan Chronicle (Hyderabad, founded 1938), and The Telegraph (Kolkata) (founded 1982)

  • Question: Why bother to write such a lead in the first place?
  • Answer: Because if we don't, we will not have a DUE summary of the topic against which to measure the neutrality of our additions. Later, when a topic becomes older, text-books, other encyclopedias, reviews of literature, and so forth, become available for determining DUE, but for now, there is nothing else. Also, as the lead is what people read first, and sometimes, they read no further: it is important for it to be comprehensive and neutral, especially when the rest of the article is not.
  • Question: Why start with only these six Indian newspapers?
  • Answer: Because these newspapers have old traditions of excellence and independence. As print newspapers based in different regions of India, they necessarily have to summarize—in the multi-ethnic Indian context—in a manner that local or digital newspapers do not.

As an example, consider the "peace marches" in the New York Times story, which have been paraphrased in the lead as:

After the violence had abated in the thickly-settled mixed Hindu-Muslim neighbourhoods of North East Delhi, some Hindu politicians paraded alleged Hindu victims of Muslim violence in an attempt to reshape the accounting of events and to further inflame hostility towards Muslims.[1]

References

  1. ^ Gettleman, Jeffrey; Yasir, Sameer; Raj, Suhasini; Kumar, Hari (12 March 2020), "'If We Kill You, Nothing Will Happen': How Delhi's Police Turned Against Muslims", The New York Times, Photographs by Loke, Atul, retrieved 13 March 2020, The religiously mixed and extremely crowded neighborhoods in northeastern Delhi that were on fire in late February have cooled. But some Hindu politicians continue to lead so-called peace marches, trotting out casualties of the violence with their heads wrapped in white medical tape, trying to upend the narrative and make Hindus seem like the victims, which is stoking more anti-Muslim hatred.

There are stories about one peace march on February 29 in:

These should, therefore, be used to further expand the topic of peace marches, at least one peace march. Similarly, determining whether there were other marches, before or after, will require examining these sources for other dates.

Stage 3
After the main body is fleshed out in such fashion, the lead should be rewritten by summing up the main body. No footnotes, let alone extended quotes, will then be required in the lead unless a statement is highly controversial. But for now, they are essential.

In the language of artificial intelligence, the stages are 1: The lead is written using sources that are relatively low-res (or high-level (OED: high-level: relating to or concerned with a subject, system, or phenomenon as a whole, rather than its particular details.), or macro-level). 2. The main body is fleshed out using sources that are high-res (low-level, micro-level), but in keeping with the content of stage 1 (i.e. DUE). 3. The lead is rewritten as a low-res/high-level version of the main body.

Good luck, @SerChevalerie, NedFausa, SharabSalam, Kautilya3, Slatersteven, and DIYeditor: Pinging also: @RegentsPark, Abecedare, DougWeller, El C, Anachronist, Drmies, Johnbod, Bishonen, and Vanamonde93: Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:56, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fowler&fowler, thanks. SerChevalerie (talk) 14:34, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Even though you haven't pinged me, I have been keeping this talk page in my watchlist. You did very well! Thank you, Fowler&fowler. --KartikeyaS (talk) 08:58, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fowler&fowler's List of foreign newspapers with correspondents in India

Dear @SerChevalerie, NedFausa, SharabSalam, Kautilya3, Slatersteven, DIYeditor, and KartikeyaS343: Pinging also: @RegentsPark, Abecedare, DougWeller, El C, Anachronist, Drmies, Johnbod, Bishonen, and Vanamonde93: Collapsed below is a list I had mentioned above. It is much bigger than I had thought, and there are still some (Haarets, Jerusalem Post, in Israel, South African newspapers) which I have not examined. Still, used judiciously, it may prove useful in the future. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:34, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PS I have not added the links/urls for newspapers that rigorously require a subscription, only the titles of the stories. (It is easier to search the title on Google.) If someone wants small blurbs from them, I'm happy to provide them. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:44, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

North America

Newspapers and other media in the US and Canada with correspondents in India
  • The Washington Post. (Subscrip. Req.) Joana Slater (India bureau chief), Neha Masih, Tania Dutta
  • "Worst communal violence in Delhi in decades leaves 17 dead as Trump visits India," February 25, by Slater, Masih, and Dutta
  • "Death toll passes 30 in Delhi violence as Modi issues plea for calm," February 26, Slater, Masih.
  • "Criticism of police grows after mob violence kills nearly 40 in India’s capital," February 27, by Slater
  • "Criticism of police grows after mob violence kills nearly 40 in India’s capital," February 27, Slater
  • "What Delhi’s worst communal violence in decades means for Modi’s India," March 2, Slater and Masih
  • The Wall Street Journal Bill Spindle (South Asia bureau chief); Vibhuti Agarwal (Commodities Reporter); Krishna Pokharel (Reporter)
  • "India’s Ruling Party, Government Slammed Over Delhi Violence," (subscription required; Pokharel, Agarwal, Spindle, February 26)
  • "India Begins Probe of Clashes That Left 38 Dead," (subscription required; Agarwal, Spindle, February 27)
  • The Christian Science Monitor (Subscrip. Not Req.) An American newspaper with a notable record of international reporting. Farhad Shah, India contributor
  • Associated Press (Subscrip. Not Req.)
  • Correspondents: Emily Schmall (South Asia correspondent) Sheikh Saaliq, Ashok Sharma
Sometimes the same article is carried with bylines by some newspapers and without by others:
  • Stories carried without byline by:
  • Toronto Star does not have a correspondent in Delhi, and generally uses AP
  • The Globe and Mail, Toronto, also does not have a correspondent in Delhi and uses AP and Reuters.
  • CBS (Columbia Broadcasting System, United States), correspondent: Arshad Zagar

United Kingdom and Ireland

Newspapers and other media in the UK and Ireland with correspondents in India
  • The Times (Subscrip. Req.) Hugh Tomlinson, South Asia correspondent, based in Delhi; Saurabh Sharma, Delhi
  • "Donald Trump’s visit to India marred by deadly violence against Muslims," February 26, by Hugh Tomlinson and Saurabh Sharma
  • "Hindu mobs threaten to purge Delhi of Muslims," February 27, Hugh Tomlinson
  • "Heroes rise in a city torn apart by riots," March 3, Hugh Tomlinson and Saurabh Sharma
  • "Anti-Modi protesters named on billboards," March 11, Hugh Tomlinson and Saurabh Sharma
  • "Anti-Modi protesters ordered to sign ‘good behaviour’ pledge," March 17, Hugh Tomlinson and Saurabh Sharma
  • Guardian, Hannah Ellis-Peterson, Delhi correspondent.
  • " ‘Targeted for being Muslim’: Inside the mosque burnt by rioters in worst Delhi violence for decades," February 26, by Adam Withnall
  • "Delhi riots: Death toll rises to 27 with mosque set on fire in deadliest violence in capital in decades," February 26, by Adam Withnall.
  • "Delhi riots: Dust settles after worst religious violence in decades as locals demand accountability," February 27, by Adam Withnall.
  • "UN human rights chief launches unprecedented legal action against Indian government over citizenship protests," March 3, by Adam Withnall
  • "Delhi riots: Violence that killed 53 in Indian capital ‘was anti-Muslim pogrom’, says top expert," March 7, by Adam Withnall
  • "The betrayal felt in the still-recovering areas hit by the Delhi riots makes coronavirus more of a threat," March 15, Pyall Dhar
  • "Why an Islamic gathering in Delhi has taken centre stage in India’s coronavirus debate," March 31, Adam Withnall
  • Financial Times, (Subscrip. Req.) Amy Kazmin South Asia Bureau Chief, based in Delhi; Stephanie Findlay, South Asia correspondent.
  • "New Delhi religious riots claim 17 lives in two days of violence," February 25, by Amy Kazmin
  • "Thousands of paramilitary police deployed in New Delhi after riots," February 26, by Amy Kazmin and Stephanie Findlay
  • "Narendra Modi woos world leaders in a city haunted by violence," February 26, by Amy Kazmin
  • "India riots: ‘We were attacked because we are Muslim’," February 28, by Stephanie Findlay and Amy Kazmin
  • Economist (Subscrip. Req.) (does not have bylines by tradition, only the location of the reporter)
  • "More than a dozen killed, hundreds injured as New Delhi riots overshadow Trump visit," February 25, Devjyot Ghosal, Manoj Kumar, New Delhi
  • "A mob out for blood: India's protests pit Hindus against Muslims," February 26, Danish Siddiqui and Devjyot Ghosal, New Delhi
  • "Death toll rises to 32 in religious violence in India's capital," February 27, by Aftab Ahmed, New Delhi
  • "A Delhi neighborhood divided by a highway and now hatred," February 27, by Aftab Ahmed, New Delhi
  • "Indian lawmakers scuffle over citizenship riots where 41 died," March 2 by Alisdair Pal and Aftab Ahmed, New Delhi
  • "More 'apartheid cities' seen in India after deadly Delhi riots," March 5, by Rina Chandran
  • "Delhi's displaced scrape a living after deadly riots," March 4, Alisdair Pal and Devjyot Ghosal, New Delhi
  • Irish Times, (Subscrip. Not Req.) Rahul Bedi, Contributor, New Delhi

Europe

Newspapers and other media in Europe with correspondents in India
  • Le Monde, (Subscrip. Req.) Sophie Landrin, India correspondent
  • "Trump célèbre la tolérance indienne quand des heurts intercommunautaires embrasent New Delhi," ("Trump celebrates Indian tolerance when cross-community clashes set fire to New Delhi") 25 février 2020, Sophie Landrin
  • "Inde : New Delhi en proie à de violents conflits intercommunautaires" ("India: New Delhi plagued by violent inter-community conflicts"), 26 février 2020, Sophie Landrin
  • "A New Delhi, trois jours de terreur" ("In New Delhi, three days of terror"), 27 février 2020, Sophie Landrin
  • "Attaques contre les musulmans à New Delhi : « J’ai pensé que j’allais mourir »" ("Attacks on Muslims in New Delhi: 'I thought I was going to die' "), 04 mars 2020, Sophie Landrin

Asia and Australia

Newspapers in Asia and Australia with correspondents in India
  • The Australian, generally carries articles from The Times, London. (Hugh Tomlinson, See above.)
  • The Age Melbourne, Ashok Sharma (AP)

Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:34, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Oppose

OI FOWLER NOOOOO!! NedFausa (talk) 15:23, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please note: in registering my opposition, I used the verbatim wording prescribed here. If I was misled, please advise. NedFausa (talk) 15:36, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Per wp:consensus "In determining consensus, consider the quality of the arguments, the history of how they came about, the objections of those who disagree, and existing policies and guidelines. The quality of an argument is more important than whether it represents a minority or a majority view. The arguments "I just don't like it" and "I just like it" usually carry no weight whatsoever.", you have to actually make a case.Slatersteven (talk) 15:48, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Once again, WP:BLP applies here - and this is not a discussion page for the riots

If multiple reliable sources discuss someone's activities and you want them added to the article, bring them here and suggest your wording.

DO NOT use this page to discuss them (or in fact the riots) - this isn't a forum, this page exists only to discuss improvements to the article. Doug Weller talk 10:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

NOPV of the article

It looks like the article violates the WP:NOPV norms and have a lots of blog-like references. These things should be carefully monitored by the editors and people with proper knowledge on the topic.--Methu1 (talk) 22:59, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Methu1, which specific lines violate the norms according to you, and which sources are "blog-like"? All editors have been careful to use WP:RS. SerChevalerie (talk) 23:20, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Methu1 I would add that editors are not required to have knowledge of the topic in order to write about it, as long as they are writing based on what reliable sources say. Wikipedia summarizes what those sources say- if you disagree with what they say, you need to take that up with the sources. 331dot (talk) 23:23, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi SerChevalerie, thank you for initiating a healthy discussion. Usually, articles like this involve more than one opinion/fronts. Contrast to newspaper-like articles, Wikipedia articles do not provide judgement but write all the fronts (without impartial weightage, see WP:Due and undue weight) and let the reader decide. see more on: WP:Purpose of Wikipedia and WP:NOPV. Some sources argue on one front that this is a Hindu-Muslim riot, on the other hand, few other reputed articles claim it to be purely pro-CAA vs anti-CAA clash. see: Business Standard, Economic Times, The Hindu, Logical Indian and Hindustan Times. The second front is not entirely communal. Though many protesters in the anti-CAA group are Muslim, it has Hindus as well. Some of them are even arrested. see: zeenews and The Statesman. There is a third front as well, which suspect the involvement of foreign power (terror-link) because it happened exactly during Trump's visit to India. see: Sunday Guardian,Republic World and The Hindu. At this point, my objection is towards the way the "introduction" part is written. It should be made more bias-free with neutral statements. We can't even copy the newspaper statements directly, because they sometimes provide judgements directly. We can pay attention to three things of NOPV: "Avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts", "Prefer nonjudgmental language" and "Indicate the relative prominence of opposing views".--Methu1 (talk) 12:36, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 331dot, Wikipedia requires people with content knowledge to write a better non-biased article. see: Wikipedia:Expert_editors#General; even we have a template {{Expert needed}}.--Methu1 (talk) 12:40, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Methu1 I didn't say otherwise, only that anyone can do so, not just experts or people with specific knowledge of the topic. Anyone who can read a reliable source can contribute. 331dot (talk) 12:59, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Methu1, firstly, the current version of the lead has been created painstakingly by Fowler&fowler to summarize the events of the riots, in hopes that we may expand upon the same in the main body. To understand this process better, please refer to § Fowler&fowler's: Developing the article main body, and eventually rewriting the lead (in POV-embattled India-related articles). We are also using only independent third-party international sources for the majority of the article (and for all the "controversial statements"), so I don't see why you are unhappy with the sources used. We have already achieved consensus for the same, and agreed upon the fact that it is WP:NPOV.

Further, the issue is far from being an open-and-shut case. There are emotions (and opinions) from all sides involved, and we have done our best to represent the valid facts, as reported by the high-quality sources mentioned. We are far from finished, and so is the Indian judiciary, which is still investigating the riots. As such, "expertise" on the topic will not be easy to come by in the near future. Until then, us editors have summarised whatever we can, from the best-possible reliable sources available.

Regarding the POV of the article, please put forward your specific suggestions so that we may achieve consensus that we are sufficiently NPOV. Best regards, SerChevalerie (talk) 19:04, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Have currently removed the tag, if there are any specific POV-related issues, then they can be discussed here first. SerChevalerie (talk) 20:51, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2020

Most of the information mentioned in this article are false and mis-represented. So I would like to edit this article with true and correct information. Riot was started by Muslim community by burning two wheelers, cars, shops and petrol pumps. After that police initiated action against them and leaders from both communities provoked people to kill each other. Crctc (talk) 22:18, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes Crctc (talk) 22:19, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Your request is blank or it only consists of a vague request for editing permission. It is not possible for individual users to be granted permission to edit a semi-protected page; however, you can do one of the following:
  • If you have an account, you will be able to edit this page four days after account registration if you make at least 10 constructive edits to other pages.
  • If you do not have an account, you can create one by clicking the Login/Create account link at the top right corner of the page and following the instructions there. Once your account is created and you meet four day/ten edit requirements you will be able to edit this page.
  • You can request unprotection of this page by asking the administrator who protected it. Instructions on how to do this are at WP:UNPROTECT. A page will only be unprotected if you provide a valid rationale that addresses the original reason for protection.
  • You can provide a specific request to edit the page in "change X to Y" format on this talk page and an editor who is not blocked from editing will determine if the requested edit is appropriate. —KuyaBriBriTalk 22:24, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2020

This Whole Page Needs to be rewritten considering the Police Investigation of Delhi Riot Case appearing in Newspapers like Times of India and Edit Protection granted should be IMMEDIATELY REMOVED. DM Prabhudesai ([[User talk:DMPrabhudesai|talk) 00:50, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: DM Prabhudesai Please consult the protecting administrator Anachronist if you want the article's protection level to be reduced. Otherwise,
  1. Wait until September 28 when protection expires, or the recommended way
  2. Be extended confirmed (500 edits and 30 days)
  3. Make a draft, and submit another EPER linking to your draft, and it'll be accepted if it's good. {{replyto|Can I Log In}}'s talk page! 01:47, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Change mentioning of "Hindu Nationalist Bharatiya Janta" Party back to "Bharatiya Janta Party" as the former name is driven by anti-BJP sentiments Abhayy1912 (talk) 03:08, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2020

Mentioning of Bharatiya Janta Party as Hindu Nationalist Bharatiya Janta Party is guided by an anti-BJP sentiment. Abhayy1912 (talk) 03:05, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Abhayy1912, please refer to WP:YESPOV and WP:DUE. We base our statements on what reliable sources say, and they overwhelmingly call the BJP "Hindu nationalist". SerChevalerie (talk) 14:55, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2020

27.62.97.253 (talk) 06:06, 3 June 2020 (UTC) entire article was false need to edit[reply]
 Not done: Your request is blank or it only consists of a vague request for editing permission. It is not possible for individual users to be granted permission to edit a semi-protected page; however, you can do one of the following:
  • If you have an account, you will be able to edit this page four 30 days after account registration if you make at least 10 500 constructive edits to other pages.
  • If you do not have an account, you can create one by clicking the Login/Create account link at the top right corner of the page and following the instructions there. Once your account is created and you meet four day/ten edit requirements you will be able to edit this page.
  • You can request unprotection of this page by asking the administrator who protected it. Instructions on how to do this are at WP:UNPROTECT. A page will only be unprotected if you provide a valid rationale that addresses the original reason for protection.
  • You can provide a specific request to edit the page in "change X to Y" format on this talk page and an editor who is not blocked from editing will determine if the requested edit is appropriate. SerChevalerie (talk) 14:59, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @SerChevalerie: Just to kindly let you know, the article is under ECP, not SP, so it would be "If you have an account, you will be able to edit this page four 30 days after account registration if you make at least 10 500 constructive edits to other pages." {{replyto|Can I Log In}}'s talk page! 18:01, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Can I Log In, noted and corrected, thanks. SerChevalerie (talk) 18:25, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2020

Kindly give details as per the police report and the as per the original evidences filed in the court.. please dont give articles from news paper reference.. lot of newspapers are biased and write report as per the management polices..so at least in these political matters depend on orginal evidence submitted in court.. 2409:4073:2E83:9F48:0:0:BC8:F707 (talk) 06:34, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please read wp:rs and wp:primary.Slatersteven (talk) 09:18, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not done for now: Currently the police has only filed chargesheets, which adding to this article would amount to WP:RECENTISM. Going forward, we will add only the final court convictions, or only similarly significant developments. SerChevalerie (talk) 15:02, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 June 2020

"Chants were heard of "Jai Shri Ram" ("Victory to Lord Rama"), a slogan", Citation to the source has NO evidence. It makes it appear like a tabloid. This needs to be removed to avoid accusation to one group. 2601:600:9D7F:E0D0:90FB:13D7:2BF0:C0BF (talk) 03:00, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The point of being an RS we we assume they have checked.Slatersteven (talk) 04:28, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: It's right there in the cited source, in a quotation from an eyewitness. The quotation is in the citation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:32, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The intro is laughably POV

The intro is laughably POV... I found myself laughing out loud at the bias — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.213.157 (talk) 10:07, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What changes do you suggest?Slatersteven (talk) 10:09, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 June 2020

103.100.7.129 (talk) 19:17, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delhi anti hindu riots were pre-planned by radical islamic forces and certain anti India interest groups. These includes ISIS , PAKISTAN ISI and certain dirty Indian politicians who became completely irrelevant. Because in today's India people started hating the people's who divide the society on basis of religion, region, caste etc.

 Not done, please state your changes in a clear, "change X to Y" format, with sufficient reliable sources to back them up. SerChevalerie (talk) 19:22, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 June 2020

103.100.7.129 (talk) 19:33, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delhi anti hindu riots were prominently happened in Muslim majority areas only. AAP leader Tahir Hussain , Rajdhani School owner Faisal Farooq ,Umar Khalid, Left leaning radical group Pijra Tod etc are some of master mind's of anti hindu riots of Delhi. Casualties of both sides happened only for one reason because these Muslim mobs don't have any dress code. They were on top of some mosques , some prominent buildings like Tahir Hussain building, Rajdhani School building etc but they are also on the streets. Anybody can simply justify all this because a number of video footages are available. Brutal murders of IB officer Ankit Sharma who was giving output against this conspiracy and Dilber Negi etc on the other hand casualties of mobs itself by slim short guns proofs what happened .

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 June 2020

Pulkitraina2608 (talk) 11:37, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Theres a line in the first para saying something like "caused majorly by Hindus attacking muslims". This is a blatant lie and propaganda. There were clashes from both sides beginning with the Hindus being attacked first by the rioters and then them responding even bigger

its what RS claim.Slatersteven (talk) 11:46, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The paragraph phrase you are listing has two reliable sources attached to it. There is no justification that shows it is a blatant lie and propaganda. Galendalia Talk to me CVU Graduate 19:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article on delhi riots is truly bull shit and fair.

All what are written is not true . Everything what are written i thing that all imagination of the so called pseudo liberals. And they are trying to present misinformation without going through the ground reality. True&believe (talk) 11:45, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please read [[wp:npa].Slatersteven (talk) 11:47, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
True&believe Wikipedia does not deal in "truth", as truth is in the eye of the beholder, but in what can be verified, see WP:TRUTH. Wikipedia summarizes what independent reliable sources state. The sources are provided so readers can evaluate them and judge them for themselves as to their accuracy or bias. If those sources are incorrect, you need to take that up with them. If you have independent reliable sources that are not currently in this article, please offer them.
This is a contentious issue, with strong feelings on each side based in ancient religions. We will not solve any religious conflict here, which is why we focus on what independent reliable sources state. 331dot (talk) 11:52, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 June 2020

those riots were done by muslims in which a intelligence bureau offficer ankit sharma is murdererd and as per the chargesheet of delhi police those riots were done by tabit hussain a member of legislative Assembly of aam aadmi party which is ruling party of delhi state, so stop spreading hinduphobia} - 2409:4043:211e:f76e:d2e:f812:b4a1:5991

I suggest you look through the archives and ask yourself why there was so much arguing over whether or not ankit sharma was an intelligence officer. Also a charge sheet is not an RS for anything other than an accusation. - Slatersteven
 Not done: As mentioned, a chargesheet does not prove anyone guilty. In the future, please back up your suggested changes with WP:RS. SerChevalerie (talk) 21:35, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Chargesheet

Police has filed a charge sheet that gives a completely different picture than what's mentioned in this article Peter Lim 870 (talk) 21:21, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Lim 870, we have not added the same due to WP:RECENTISM. Then again, some of it seems significant, so if sufficient consensus is achieved, we may add some of the more historically relevant facts. SerChevalerie (talk) 21:24, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
At least you can mention that charge sheet has been filed. Right now the article looks biased and as such its likely to lose credibility. I am suggesting this from neutral point of view. Peter Lim 870 (talk) 21:31, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Peter Lim 870, the article's credibility remains, please suggest what specific text you would like to be added from the chargesheet (backed with reliable sources), and if we achieve consensus on the same then we may add it to the article. SerChevalerie (talk) 21:33, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I just want you to add. Police charge sheet has been filed that gives a different picture
You may use similar phrase but this above is a fact and at this moment, the above information is credible and can be verified. Peter Lim 870 (talk) 21:36, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Peter Lim 870, please back up your statements with WP:RS as requested. "gives a different picture" than what? In whose opinion? Please also see WP:NPOV. Thank you. SerChevalerie (talk) 21:39, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can you help me out as I am new to Wikipedia. Basically,

1 - The charge sheet is now in public domain and has been filed 2 - Information in the CS is contradictory to what's mentioned.

"Filing Of A Charge Sheet" is a fact "Contents are in contradiction" is a fact Peter Lim 870 (talk) 21:44, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Lim 870 Wikipedia works on the principle of WP:VERIFIABILITY - everys single statement in the article is backed up with a reliable source. If you are unable to provide the info in this manner, then you will just have to wait for a more experienced editor to do so. In the meantime, you may familiarise yourself with Wikipedia and editing through the links shared on your talk page. Happy editing! SerChevalerie (talk) 21:52, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please read wp:primary.Slatersteven (talk) 10:49, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Request for change of sources in the first line of the article

I am not debating that the line "and caused chiefly by Hindu mobs attacking Muslims" is true or not. The problem is that the Guardian source is chiefly about role of police during the violence rather than the mob and The New York Times article is about how BJP's nationalist policies led to this. However no article specifically mentions that the violence was done chiefly by Hindu mob (I am not saying it is true or not), but they list many instances of violence against Muslims by Hindu mob. The change I want is update of sources to specifically mention that most of the violence was done by Hindu Mob. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sachin75871 (talk • contribs) 04:26, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fowler&fowler, could you look into this when you have some time? SerChevalerie (talk) 07:19, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The reason I brought this up is this. The New York Times article does not even mention this line, still it was included to cite the first line of this article, which itself is very controversial. The Guardian article does mention "... that the Delhi police played in enabling the violence, which was predominately Hindu mobs attacking Muslims. Of the 51 people who died, at least three-quarters were Muslim, and many Muslims are still missing.", but the article is predominantly about police brutality and the only context given for this line is that more Muslims were killed in comparison to Hindus. Again, I am not contesting the validity of this line, but the support of reliable sources in relation to it. I strongly think that as this is a very controversial statement among Indians, several reliable sources should be mentioned. Also, why was The New York Times article was mentioned here and noone noticed it? That article is completely about Modi's and his party's Hindu nationalist policies which led to violence. That article never mentions "violence was chiefly done by Hindu mobs" still it is cited to support this very statement.
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