Talk:Operation Praying Mantis: Difference between revisions

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Military history: North America / United States Start‑class

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Grrrrr... unprofessional edits

People... PLEASE! If you dispute the factuality of something, tag it as such by using "^{[citation needed]}" or some other tag. Please do NOT write IN THE MAIN ARTICLE your disputes, gripes, etc. That's what THIS page is for... discussing the edits. Putting it in the main article makes the article look like yak-dung! The main article is NOT a forum for a pissing contest!

Supersquid 08:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Since someone appears to think ‘operation preying mantis’ was the largest engagement between surface forces since WW2. I would be interested to know their definition of ‘largest engagement’ and ‘surface forces’ . I notice that the ‘order of battle’ is shown as consisting of 10 US ships and 9 Iranian ships.

The Falklands battle (1982) was fought between at least 40 UK warships and 19 Argentine warships. (not including dozens of other fleet auxiliary ships)

‘preying mantis’ involved 1 aircraft carrier, the Falklands battle involved 3 aircraft carriers.

‘preying mantis’ involved 4 destroyers, the Falklands battle involved 23 destroyers

‘Preying mantis’ resulted in 2 known fatalities (according to the wikipedia article) the Falklands war resulted in 907 known fatalities. (323 being killed in the sinking of one ship)

‘preying mantis’ involved 1 amphibious transport dock, the Falklands battle involved 6 amphibious transport docks.

‘Preying mantis’ resulted in the sinking of 8 ships (according to the wikipedia article , the Falklands battle involved the sinking of 13 ships (with at least twice as many severely damaged.)

‘preying mantis’ lasted 1 day, the Falklands battle lasted 43 days (from the start of naval engagements)

I could go on, but this will do as an opener. Let us see how long it will take before truth is allowed to appear in Wikipedia ( I am not holding my breath)

Oil Platforms

"By the end of the operation elements of the American fleet had damaged Iranian naval and intelligence facilities on two inoperable oil platforms in the Persian Gulf"....According to this statement in the article, the oil platforms were inoperable BEFORE the American fleet damaged them. Is this a misstatement?

This article repeats the same events twice yes? 195.229.241.183 23:16, 30 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

No, the platforms were inoperable, but the Iranians were using them to launch attacks on U.S. ships.

Confusing Chronology...

In "The Battle", this article indicates the Joshan was sunk [Para. 3]. Later, in [Para. 6], the Joshan attacks U.S. ships Simpson and Bagley, and is sunk again?

In [Para. 4], weapons delivered against the Sahand are "successful", and the Sahand sinks in [Para. 5]. The Sahand is indicated as being sunk again in [Para. 6] (redundant).

In [Para.3], the Sabalan departs Bandar Abbas; it then departs port (again?) in [Para. 5].

[I would edit this myself, but I don't know the true chronology of this battle.

"U.S-backed Iraq"

I'm curious about the use of this line. It might be proper to simply remove this adjective or comment altogether. The issue about who 'backed' Iraq during their war with Iran is frought with pitfalls.

According to Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, the US materiel support accounted for less than half of a percent of total value in conventional arms suppies sold to Iraq. By contrast, the USSR accounted for nearly 60%.

The US provided Iraq intelligence support, and Iran with weapons. I don't know who else 'backed' Iran, but the was far from the leading materiel supplier to Iraq. This was why the Iraqi army used/uses Warsaw Pact airplanes, missiles, armor, light arms, tactics, etc. The Soviets trained them, sold them weapons, etc. Western European countries also armed Iraq. These sales and transfers probably account for the huge debt Iraq incurred prior to invading Kuwait.

Source: http://web.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/atirq_data.html

Decisive battle

The inclusion of Praying Mantis with genuine, history-altering battles such as Midway is just plain silly. Any naval confrontation between the US and Iran that did not resolve itself in an American slam-dunk would've been a de facto victory for Iran. The good professor needs to realign his historical gyros, which obviously have tumbled.

Iran Ajr

The Iran Ajr seems to be completely missing from the article so I added its role in. The full story can be found on the Iran Ajr wikipedia page. The Iran Ajr was the Iranian minelayer ship that was officially validated as laying the mines which detonated the US navy vessel. It seems as though the retaliatory strike on the Iran Ajr was not officially included as part of Operation Praying Mantis, by what's on the main body of this article, so I added the little tidbit in the introduction.--Exander 05:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No. Iran Ajr was captured and sunk by U.S. forces in October 1987, well before the April 1988 laying of the mines that got the Samuel B. Roberts. PRRfan 19:43, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Biggest surface action since WWII

Notes attached to the the unsigned edits in the article appear to indicate that the anonymous editor believes that the biggest battle between surface forces since World War II took place during the 1982 UK-Argentine Falklands War. Certainly, the two countries' naval forces clashed — UK helicopters damaged an Argentine sub, a UK submarine sank an Argentine cruiser, etc. — but were there battles between surface forces? I don't believe so. PRRfan 15:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]